Should The President Invoke Emergency Powers Under Article VI & the 14th Amendment..

[Harry Dresden]

No, that's not at all what I said. If Obama were to do something this colossally stupid, it would render the Democrat party pointless for decades. Perhaps then the normal people who may still be Democrats will purge the party of the lunatic Marxists and Communists that have diseased the party for decades.

that would only be half the cancer cut out....the Republicans would have to cut out the Cancer in their party too.....

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Maybe I missed something.

You missed the part where Mustang linked not raising the debt ceiling to the president invoking emergency powers under the Insurrection Act.



Correct. And, as far as any discussion about our current debt, Article 6 is null and void, because it was designed to assure foreign governments and private individuals that the new government would honor the debts of the old one.

Mentioning it at all just proves Mustang doesn't understand English. You defending it tends to prove the same of you.



The appropriate clause says, in full, " The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void."

It was obviously written to reassure people that the US would honor all its debts from the Civil War, but would not honor the debts of the Confederacy.

Regardless, SCOTUS has held that this also applies to debts incurred after the Civil War.



I agree. That does not, however, give him the power to call out the Army if he thinks Congress is not doing its job.



Actually, he has limited ability and right to do that. Congress has to authorize all spending, period. That means that the president cannot just declare that he no longer needs Congress and just start spending money and collecting taxes without any cares in the world. That would be unconstitutional.



I agree that no troops will be deployed. If you read through this thread you will see that I scoffed at the very notion of deploying troops because Congress does not raise the debt ceiling. Not sure why you are trying to say I am the one that is hysterical when the OP is the hysterical idiot that raised the issue in the first place.

I can imagine the Dept. of Justice issuing warrants for the arrest of the Republican leadership for "Constitutional Contempt" (I know, but there is always a first time) and a court subesquently issuing an order to show cause why the leadership violated the 'law of our land'.

That makes you almost as hysterical as the OP.

No, I simply "imagined", the possibility, not a liklihood; If done it would create a Constitutional Crisis and I have to wonder why the GOP is allowing its radical wing to create a climate where sane minds get backed into a corner.

We won't agree on much, but I suspect we both love this country - I seriously doubt the New Right has such affection.

You imagined the courts intervening in a political matter. they do not do that, and have said so numerous times.

This is not a Constitutional crisis because not increasing the debt is solely in the purview of the Legislative branch. My question to you is why is the radical left wing of the Democratic Party refusing to accept reality? It always amazes me that people on the left do not see that the Democratic party is doing its best to eliminate the moderates in the party, just like you continually accuse the right of doing. Not sure why anyone thinks the answer is the center either.

Can you prove the people who think that we need to deal with the deficit are wrong? Why does insisting we cannot keep doing something Obama says is unsustainable make the Republicans the crazy ones in this debate?

 

[Harry Dresden]

This is not a Constitutional crisis because not increasing the debt is solely in the purview of the Legislative branch. My question to you is why is the radical left wing of the Democratic Party refusing to accept reality? It always amazes me that people on the left do not see that the Democratic party is doing its best to eliminate the moderates in the party, just like you continually accuse the right of doing. Not sure why anyone thinks the answer is the center either.

the bolded part......yep.....

 

[American Cowboy]

Should The President Invoke Emergency Powers Under Article VI & the 14th Amendmen?

We would solve most of our problems if Obama would just resign. The recession we repair itself in about 30 days.

Obama is the problem, not the cure.


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-lVXwDe7OM]YouTube - ‪No More Obama‬‏[/ame]

 

[Dr.Traveler]

This is not a Constitutional crisis because not increasing the debt is solely in the purview of the Legislative branch. My question to you is why is the radical left wing of the Democratic Party refusing to accept reality? It always amazes me that people on the left do not see that the Democratic party is doing its best to eliminate the moderates in the party, just like you continually accuse the right of doing. Not sure why anyone thinks the answer is the center either.

the bolded part......yep.....

Thats why I think were headed for a legitimate third party. Democrats and Republicans are purging moderates like mad. If the Blue Dog Democrats got together with the Fiscal cons of the Tea Party, I'd bet they'd findthry have far more in common with each other than their respective parties.

What's holding up the process is pure fear. The Tea Party is scared to death of the Pelosi wing of the Democrats, and the Blue Dogs are scared to death of the social cons.

 

[Salt Jones]

Let me get this straight, you think a failure to come to an agreement on the budget ceiling equals an insurrection or rebellion which justifies calling out the Military? Pretty extreme isn't it? The problem concerns leadership and apparently the former community activist ain't got it.

They are not arguing over the BUDGET. This is about raising the debt ceiling, they are two different pieces of legislation/laws. The basic lack of government understanding displayed by the right wing is funny. Go study some more David Barton American "History".

It amuses me that someone who thinks that not raising the debt ceiling is the equivalent of insurrection is lecturing anyone about their understanding of the law.

Not raising the debt ceiling is in violation of the 14th Amendment. Do you know what the debt ceiling is?

What is the debt ceiling exactly? It's a cap set by Congress on the amount of debt the federal government can legally borrow. The cap applies to debt owed to the public (i.e., anyone who buys U.S. bonds) plus debt owed to federal government trust funds such as those for Social Security and Medicare.
The first limit was set in 1917 and set at $11.5 billion, according to the Center for a Responsible Federal Budget. Previously, Congress had to sign off every time the federal government issued debt.

How high is the debt limit right now? The ceiling is currently set at $14.294 trillion. The country's accrued debt hit that mark on the morning of May 16.
But by taking various extraordinary measures like suspending investments in federal retirement funds, Geithner will be able to bring total debt down enough to allow the government to continue borrowing until Aug. 2.
Hence, by the end of trade on May 16, total debt subject to the limit was a mere $25 million shy of the official cap -- or $14,293,975,000,000. Total debt can fluctuate up or down on any given day.

U.S. hits debt ceiling: Why it matters - May. 16, 2011

 

[Steelplate]

Perhaps Lord Obama should actually propose a budget that doesn't send us into an even further economic sinkhole. BTW... not getting his way isn't reason enough to impose martial law.

Perhaps the fucking Republicans ought to fucking give a little, instead of holding their collective breaths, Holding the country hostage and walking away like the spoiled brats they are.

But no... Thems too scared of the SHIITE Republicans. They're afraid that the Koch Brothers will go john Birch on their asses. BTW... the Koch Brothers' daddy was one of the founding members of the John Birch Society. They get their hatred honestly.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

This is not a Constitutional crisis because not increasing the debt is solely in the purview of the Legislative branch. My question to you is why is the radical left wing of the Democratic Party refusing to accept reality? It always amazes me that people on the left do not see that the Democratic party is doing its best to eliminate the moderates in the party, just like you continually accuse the right of doing. Not sure why anyone thinks the answer is the center either.

the bolded part......yep.....

Thats why I think were headed for a legitimate third party. Democrats and Republicans are purging moderates like mad. If the Blue Dog Democrats got together with the Fiscal cons of the Tea Party, I'd bet they'd findthry have far more in common with each other than their respective parties.

What's holding up the process is pure fear. The Tea Party is scared to death of the Pelosi wing of the Democrats, and the Blue Dogs are scared to death of the social cons.

A lot of those Blue Dogs are fairly reliable in the social conservative department.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Not raising the debt ceiling is in violation of the 14th Amendment.

No it is not.

You might make a case that not paying the debt is a violation thereof, but the 14th does not require that the government borrow unlimited amounts of money.

Do you know what the debt ceiling is?

What is the debt ceiling exactly? It's a cap set by Congress on the amount of debt the federal government can legally borrow. The cap applies to debt owed to the public (i.e., anyone who buys U.S. bonds) plus debt owed to federal government trust funds such as those for Social Security and Medicare.
The first limit was set in 1917 and set at $11.5 billion, according to the Center for a Responsible Federal Budget. Previously, Congress had to sign off every time the federal government issued debt.

How high is the debt limit right now? The ceiling is currently set at $14.294 trillion. The country's accrued debt hit that mark on the morning of May 16.
But by taking various extraordinary measures like suspending investments in federal retirement funds, Geithner will be able to bring total debt down enough to allow the government to continue borrowing until Aug. 2.
Hence, by the end of trade on May 16, total debt subject to the limit was a mere $25 million shy of the official cap -- or $14,293,975,000,000. Total debt can fluctuate up or down on any given day.

U.S. hits debt ceiling: Why it matters - May. 16, 2011

Wow, you can quote websites. Can you show me what any of that has to do with the idiocy in the OP?

 

[Salt Jones]

Not raising the debt ceiling is in violation of the 14th Amendment.

No it is not.

You might make a case that not paying the debt is a violation thereof, but the 14th does not require that the government borrow unlimited amounts of money.

Do you know what the debt ceiling is?

What is the debt ceiling exactly? It's a cap set by Congress on the amount of debt the federal government can legally borrow. The cap applies to debt owed to the public (i.e., anyone who buys U.S. bonds) plus debt owed to federal government trust funds such as those for Social Security and Medicare.
The first limit was set in 1917 and set at $11.5 billion, according to the Center for a Responsible Federal Budget. Previously, Congress had to sign off every time the federal government issued debt.

How high is the debt limit right now? The ceiling is currently set at $14.294 trillion. The country's accrued debt hit that mark on the morning of May 16.
But by taking various extraordinary measures like suspending investments in federal retirement funds, Geithner will be able to bring total debt down enough to allow the government to continue borrowing until Aug. 2.
Hence, by the end of trade on May 16, total debt subject to the limit was a mere $25 million shy of the official cap -- or $14,293,975,000,000. Total debt can fluctuate up or down on any given day.

U.S. hits debt ceiling: Why it matters - May. 16, 2011

Wow, you can quote websites. Can you show me what any of that has to do with the idiocy in the OP?

You are right. The debt ceiling shouldn't be raised, neither side should blink and we should just see what happens. One side will be proven wrong and I don't give a shit which side it is.

 

[gpatrick900]

According to a republican, the debt limit may be unconstitutional. To find the article search Google for "14th Amendment Option May Be Legit, Says Leading Senate Republican" huffington post. I am neither true republican or a true democrat. I am more of an independent. He said the debit limit could be unconstitutional, but no one has challenge the law. So, if Wallstreet is worried, they need to challenge the debit celling law in the courts now. Basically, the 14th Amendment is like a Amex with no credit limit.

 

[Mustang]

Not raising the debt ceiling is in violation of the 14th Amendment.

No it is not.

You might make a case that not paying the debt is a violation thereof, but the 14th does not require that the government borrow unlimited amounts of money.

Do you know what the debt ceiling is?

What is the debt ceiling exactly? It's a cap set by Congress on the amount of debt the federal government can legally borrow. The cap applies to debt owed to the public (i.e., anyone who buys U.S. bonds) plus debt owed to federal government trust funds such as those for Social Security and Medicare.
The first limit was set in 1917 and set at $11.5 billion, according to the Center for a Responsible Federal Budget. Previously, Congress had to sign off every time the federal government issued debt.

How high is the debt limit right now? The ceiling is currently set at $14.294 trillion. The country's accrued debt hit that mark on the morning of May 16.
But by taking various extraordinary measures like suspending investments in federal retirement funds, Geithner will be able to bring total debt down enough to allow the government to continue borrowing until Aug. 2.
Hence, by the end of trade on May 16, total debt subject to the limit was a mere $25 million shy of the official cap -- or $14,293,975,000,000. Total debt can fluctuate up or down on any given day.

U.S. hits debt ceiling: Why it matters - May. 16, 2011

Wow, you can quote websites. Can you show me what any of that has to do with the idiocy in the OP?

You are right. The debt ceiling shouldn't be raised, neither side should blink and we should just see what happens. One side will be proven wrong and I don't give a shit which side it is.

I wonder which side would get most of the blame.

 

[Liability]

The Executive may disagree with the legislature, but that disagreement does not qualify the Actions of Congress as an "insurrection."

It takes a peculiarly rancid form of idiot-liberoidalism to come up with a notion as facially stupid as the one expressed by Mistang in the OP.

 

[Mustang]

The Executive may disagree with the legislature, but that disagreement does not qualify the Actions of Congress as an "insurrection."

It takes a peculiarly rancid form of idiot-liberoidalism to come up with a notion as facially stupid as the one expressed by Mistang in the OP.

You mean like the time when a certain president said that waterboarding wasn't torture. It was, instead, only an "enhanced interogation technique"?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Not raising the debt ceiling is in violation of the 14th Amendment.

No it is not.

You might make a case that not paying the debt is a violation thereof, but the 14th does not require that the government borrow unlimited amounts of money.

Do you know what the debt ceiling is?

What is the debt ceiling exactly? It's a cap set by Congress on the amount of debt the federal government can legally borrow. The cap applies to debt owed to the public (i.e., anyone who buys U.S. bonds) plus debt owed to federal government trust funds such as those for Social Security and Medicare.
The first limit was set in 1917 and set at $11.5 billion, according to the Center for a Responsible Federal Budget. Previously, Congress had to sign off every time the federal government issued debt.

How high is the debt limit right now? The ceiling is currently set at $14.294 trillion. The country's accrued debt hit that mark on the morning of May 16.
But by taking various extraordinary measures like suspending investments in federal retirement funds, Geithner will be able to bring total debt down enough to allow the government to continue borrowing until Aug. 2.
Hence, by the end of trade on May 16, total debt subject to the limit was a mere $25 million shy of the official cap -- or $14,293,975,000,000. Total debt can fluctuate up or down on any given day.

U.S. hits debt ceiling: Why it matters - May. 16, 2011

Wow, you can quote websites. Can you show me what any of that has to do with the idiocy in the OP?

You are right. The debt ceiling shouldn't be raised, neither side should blink and we should just see what happens. One side will be proven wrong and I don't give a shit which side it is.

It has happened before, once in my lifetime. What happened then?

 

[Liability]

The Executive may disagree with the legislature, but that disagreement does not qualify the Actions of Congress as an "insurrection."

It takes a peculiarly rancid form of idiot-liberoidalism to come up with a notion as facially stupid as the one expressed by Mistang in the OP.

You mean like the time when a certain president said that waterboarding wasn't torture. It was, instead, only an "enhanced interogation technique"?

You may disagree with that conclusion, but your disagreement doesn't make it wrong, fuck-wit.

 

[MikeFrank]

Was this a serious question really?

 

[Mustang]

The Executive may disagree with the legislature, but that disagreement does not qualify the Actions of Congress as an "insurrection."

It takes a peculiarly rancid form of idiot-liberoidalism to come up with a notion as facially stupid as the one expressed by Mistang in the OP.

You mean like the time when a certain president said that waterboarding wasn't torture. It was, instead, only an "enhanced interogation technique"?

You may disagree with that conclusion, but your disagreement doesn't make it wrong, fuck-wit.

LOL! I seems as if you spend a lot of your time collecting sophomoric insults. I guess that's your speed.

With that said, I think everyone could clearly see that Bush and Cheney were engaging in some creative attempts to redefine what torture was merely in order to make it more palatable to domestic and international consumers of propaganda. It sounds like the very kind of approach that Assad is using in Syria as he defines that gov't crackdowns as something considerably more benign.

Now go play with your blocks.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Was this a serious question really?

My God.. let's hope not because it has a certain colossally stupid element to it.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

If Obama "Invoke Emergency Powers Under Article VI & the 14th Amendment" do we call up the Militia?