Should the Feds be able to force Apple to cooperate?

[jon_berzerk]

What say you? I say no.

three issues

1-the right to be secure in your papers

2- involuntary servitude

3- perhaps a 2nd amendment issue

 

[jon_berzerk]

No. Here's why....

- The government shouldn't be able to force you to buy any private product or force you to PRODUCE any product or perform any labor (that's slavery btw)
- The law enforcement community is ways underfunded and it's past time that changes. If Apple can afford to hire 23 year old tech wizards and the FBI/CIA cant....that's the FBI/CIAS problem...not Apples.



I wish Apple would've volunteered to do it.

But the government being able to FORCE a private business to perform a service for them....a line I can't cross to support. The slippery slope....a city governments public works garage can't fix the Ford fire/police vehicles....so they get a court order to force a local mechanic at the Ford dealership to come fix them. See? It's fucked up.

Apple should be warrant proof?

the issue is to force apple to make a product that does not exist

then the government can try and break the code

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

What say you? I say no.

three issues

1-the right to be secure in your papers

2- involuntary servitude

3- perhaps a 2nd amendment issue

I see the first two but how the third?

 

[Wilbur Right]

If you think the feds cant crack an Iphone then we've already lost as a nation. They can tell you anything.

We have drones that go across the world but....This Iphone is really tough wink wink

You don't believe in unbreakable encryption algorithms?

 

[jon_berzerk]

What say you? I say no.

three issues

1-the right to be secure in your papers

2- involuntary servitude

3- perhaps a 2nd amendment issue

I see the first two but how the third?

encryption is listed a munition to control its export

 

[jon_berzerk]

If you think the feds cant crack an Iphone then we've already lost as a nation. They can tell you anything.

We have drones that go across the world but....This Iphone is really tough wink wink

You don't believe in unbreakable encryption algorithms?

they can crack one

that is not the problem

they need to disable the software that erases all the information on the phone

if the wrong code is entered more then 10 times

cracking the code is a piece of cake

 

[rightwinger]

Difficult case

Seems to be a fourth amendment issue in which the government can perform a search with a warrant based on probabale cause

But can the government force someone to help them search?

 

[jon_berzerk]

Difficult case

Seems to be a fourth amendment issue in which the government can perform a search with a warrant based on probabale cause

But can the government force someone to help them search?

they (the government) wants to force a private entity to make them a product that does not exist

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

"Should the Feds be able to force Apple to cooperate?"

This exhibits a complete lack of understanding of the issue.

Apple is subject to a lawful court order to unlock the phone, the company has been afforded full and comprehensive due process and must now comply with that lawful court order; Apple's 'argument' not to comply is devoid of merit.

 

[rightwinger]

"Should the Feds be able to force Apple to cooperate?"

This exhibits a complete lack of understanding of the issue.

Apple is subject to a lawful court order to unlock the phone, the company has been afforded full and comprehensive due process and must now comply with that lawful court order; Apple's 'argument' not to comply is devoid of merit.

The government is within its rights to unlock the phone

Can Apple be forced to do it for them? It is no longer Apples phone, it belonged to the terrorists. Can the police force you to participate in an investigation?

 

[jon_berzerk]

"Should the Feds be able to force Apple to cooperate?"

This exhibits a complete lack of understanding of the issue.

Apple is subject to a lawful court order to unlock the phone, the company has been afforded full and comprehensive due process and must now comply with that lawful court order; Apple's 'argument' not to comply is devoid of merit.

no they didnt

they ordered apple to invent a software

so the feds could use a method of cracking the password

in a process called brute forcing

 

[jon_berzerk]

"Should the Feds be able to force Apple to cooperate?"

This exhibits a complete lack of understanding of the issue.

Apple is subject to a lawful court order to unlock the phone, the company has been afforded full and comprehensive due process and must now comply with that lawful court order; Apple's 'argument' not to comply is devoid of merit.

The government is within its rights to unlock the phone

Can Apple be forced to do it for them? It is no longer Apples phone, it belonged to the terrorists. Can the police force you to participate in an investigation?

it was actually his employers phone the county he worked for

they got all the information off of his private phone

 

[rightwinger]

I still don't see how the government can force you to help them investigate

 

[alpine]

If you don't want an equipped government, don't expect it to do much for your safety either.......................

 

[jon_berzerk]

to add insult to injury a county employee while the phone was in fbi custody

changed the password then they forgot it

--LOL

 

[Fang]

YES without a doubt. I may agree with Apple on a lot of this. But the law is the law. You and I could not ignore a court order, neither can any company no matter how big.

 

[WinterBorn]

No. Here's why....

- The government shouldn't be able to force you to buy any private product or force you to PRODUCE any product or perform any labor (that's slavery btw)
- The law enforcement community is ways underfunded and it's past time that changes. If Apple can afford to hire 23 year old tech wizards and the FBI/CIA cant....that's the FBI/CIAS problem...not Apples.



I wish Apple would've volunteered to do it.

But the government being able to FORCE a private business to perform a service for them....a line I can't cross to support. The slippery slope....a city governments public works garage can't fix the Ford fire/police vehicles....so they get a court order to force a local mechanic at the Ford dealership to come fix them. See? It's fucked up.

This is quite different from giving a brake job on a Ford! This is a known terrorist's phone and the court has issued a legal search warrant. Granted, the FBI looks a bit lame, but it's a commendation to Apple's security. Now, in the end, is there anything of importance on the phone? Probably not much they didn't get already from the Cloud. But if one of my family members had been killed or shot at San Bernardino, I'd sure not give two shits about your slippery slope. Probably you wouldn't either.

Quite right, if my family member had been murdered by these freaks I would not give two shits about the Constitution or the slippery slope.

But do we really want laws made based on what an emotionally overwrought family member wants? Or what the cold logic of our legal system says is right?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

I still don't see how the government can force you to help them investigate

Apple should have simply unlocked the phone, as they have scores of times before for law enforcement.

The court order is based on evidence that the phone might contain relevant information with regard to the FBI's investigation, that no rights are being violated or jeopardized, and that the search is consistent with 4th and 5th Amendment jurisprudence.

Consequently, Apple isn't being forced to help with the investigation, instead they're hindering it, contrary to a lawful court order, where to comply would in no way adversely effect Apple or the users of their phones.

 

[2aguy]

I still don't see how the government can force you to help them investigate

Apple should have simply unlocked the phone, as they have scores of times before for law enforcement.

The court order is based on evidence that the phone might contain relevant information with regard to the FBI's investigation, that no rights are being violated or jeopardized, and that the search is consistent with 4th and 5th Amendment jurisprudence.

Consequently, Apple isn't being forced to help with the investigation, instead they're hindering it, contrary to a lawful court order, where to comply would in no way adversely effect Apple or the users of their phones.

and you are wrong...again.

The Answer is No.

They are being ordered to create something for the government....that is called being a slave......

 

[jon_berzerk]

I still don't see how the government can force you to help them investigate

it is unconstitutional

on the other hand we have turned a corner

on what the government can mandate what you have to do