Should religion be taught in public schools?

[JakeStarkey]

Yup, campbell et al still have residual frustration and guilt for believing as they do.

That's the point.

 

[aris2chat]

I see no problem with atheism being included in the material.

What is there to teach? No god, no heaven, no hell, just how we live this one life and hopefully leave it better for the next generation(s)

Class starts at 0800. Quiz at 0805. Then cookies. Yes, we brought cookies.

It is one thing to visualize a creator figure, like kicking a ball down the stairs to trigger the big bangs, or that the laws of science and math are like a mother nature or god controlling all things.
The idea that someone is manipulating life on earth or the universe, letting million die but favoring a few individuals, makes no logical sense. It might give one comfort to not feel alone but to pray and ask to win a football game while epidemics kill hundreds or an earthquake kills thousands and devastates a nation is not a nice "god" or one deserving of recognition.

Learning about god belongs in the church or home. Learning about religion in history and culture is teaching about the way people think and why they act, that belongs in a class room. It is understanding the psychology of the people at the time.

Why do people brutally massacre others for an empty promise of virgins and wine rather than act in peace and love of others that share the planet? For people like that, I wish there was a hell to relive every pain and suffering they inflicted on others over and over. Maybe to feel the pain of a suicide bomb in very slow motion.
What kind of god rewards brutality and allows innocents to suffer? Sorry, it makes no sense.

Children believe in fairy tales, but then they grow up and learn about people and the world. Fairy tales teach them to be cautions of stranger, to be good, to obey your parents. There are good and bad, there are morals, it gives hope of happy ending. So much easier than trying to teach a toddler about psychology, nature, law, life and death.

 

[sealybobo]

The non-believers have half of the story.

Yes, the printing press, the increasing distribution of pamphlets and broadside and newspaper after 1800, the rise of telegraph and radio and movies and tv and internet -- all of that leads to awareness and understanding regarding religion, which is a very good thing.

But it never increases the American non-believers' share in a non-God world to more than 5%.

When it does, I am sure campbell and sealybobo et al will let us know.

I look around my community and over half don't go to church. How religious do you think their kids will be?

It won't happen in our lifetime

 

[sealybobo]

Yup, campbell et al still have residual frustration and guilt for believing as they do.

That's the point.

It took awhile to truly realize there's no invisible man watching me that is true. I too was brainwashed when I was a child but I grew up. It took over 40 years but you can do it too.

 

[S.J.]

When evolutionists are faced with questions they can't answer, they always come back with "Oh yeah, then what's YOUR explanation"? They think they win by default, even though they can't close the deal.

 

[sealybobo]

When evolutionists are faced with questions they can't answer, they always come back with "Oh yeah, then what's YOUR explanation"? They think they win by default, even though they can't close the deal.

Us not having all the answers doesn't validate your explanation of the things we can't explain.

Example: How did we get here? We don't know. Must be God then.

This is not true. In the past lightning must be God. We learned that's not true. You're doing God of the gaps.

So really the only evidence you have of this God is when he talked to Joseph Smith? Mohammad? Mary? Moses? Do you see at least every religion besides yours is a lie?

 

[S.J.]

See what I mean?

 

[Campbell]

There's one thing I'm sure of.......Christians talk a mean game but that's as far as it goes. They ramble around in their new SUV's and take month long vacations and worry about how much their IRA's are bringing in each month while that is the direct opposite of what the new testament tells them to do. Most Christians know a few favorite verses about how they've been saved but ignore the ones which condemn their souls to hell. They should read the story of Lazrus and the rich man and the one which states that a rich man has as much chance of going to heaven that a camel has passing through the eye of a needle.

The non-believers have half of the story.

Yes, the printing press, the increasing distribution of pamphlets and broadside and newspaper after 1800, the rise of telegraph and radio and movies and tv and internet -- all of that leads to awareness and understanding regarding religion, which is a very good thing.

But it never increases the American non-believers' share in a non-God world to more than 5%.

When it does, I am sure campbell and sealybobo et al will let us know.

Have you killed any witches lately? What about snakes...do you pick them up?

The non-believers have half of the story.

Yes, the printing press, the increasing distribution of pamphlets and broadside and newspaper after 1800, the rise of telegraph and radio and movies and tv and internet -- all of that leads to awareness and understanding regarding religion, which is a very good thing.

But it never increases the American non-believers' share in a non-God world to more than 5%.

When it does, I am sure campbell and sealybobo et al will let us know.

PT Barnum said, "There's a Sucker Born Every Minute" and as someone else at this forum has pointed out the
population of the world was half of what it is today when he said it. There's two suckers born every minute
and religious malarky proves it.

The Vatican City has accumulated hundreds of billions of dollars worth of fine art, gold, silver, jewelry
and unique edifices while nearly a billion, mostly children starve to death. Over 12,000 children starve
or die from malnutrition each day while the churches own more real property than any other entity
in the world except the governments.

Folks dress in their finest, get up bright and early each Sunday and show up in their new SUVs for an hour
and a half to drop off a few dollars of their earnings and it all gets spent for new buildings, additions
to the old one, stained glass, oak or mahogany pews, fancy steeples, expensive musical instruments and sound systems, youth programs for their own, religious retreats, preachers salaries, homes and expenses, self serving missionaries, etc. and the givers stop for a Sunday dinner at a favorite restaurant then go home feeling good about themselves for another week. THE POOR BE DAMNED!!

 

[JakeStarkey]

When evolutionists are faced with questions they can't answer, they always come back with "Oh yeah, then what's YOUR explanation"? They think they win by default, even though they can't close the deal.

Two points.

One, evolutionists, many of them Christian, have sensibly and completely answered your mendacity.

Two, evolution is not a salvation issue.

 

[JakeStarkey]

See what I mean?

You don't see, is the point.

One, God (first creator) is something is believed or disbelieved on faith, because it cannot be proved.

Two, God and evolution are not the same thing, little buddy. God creates life, evolution is merely origin of species not life.

 

[guno]

When evolutionists are faced with questions they can't answer, they always come back with "Oh yeah, then what's YOUR explanation"? They think they win by default, even though they can't close the deal.

Us not having all the answers doesn't validate your explanation of the things we can't explain.

Example: How did we get here? We don't know. Must be God then.

This is not true. In the past lightning must be God. We learned that's not true. You're doing God of the gaps.

So really the only evidence you have of this God is when he talked to Joseph Smith? Mohammad? Mary? Moses? Do you see at least every religion besides yours is a lie?

yes the default or god of the gaps answer

 

[sealybobo]

There's one thing I'm sure of.......Christians talk a mean game but that's as far as it goes. They ramble around in their new SUV's and take month long vacations and worry about how much their IRA's are bringing in each month while that is the direct opposite of what the new testament tells them to do. Most Christians know a few favorite verses about how they've been saved but ignore the ones which condemn their souls to hell. They should read the story of Lazrus and the rich man and the one which states that a rich man has as much chance of going to heaven that a camel has passing through the eye of a needle.

The non-believers have half of the story.

Yes, the printing press, the increasing distribution of pamphlets and broadside and newspaper after 1800, the rise of telegraph and radio and movies and tv and internet -- all of that leads to awareness and understanding regarding religion, which is a very good thing.

But it never increases the American non-believers' share in a non-God world to more than 5%.

When it does, I am sure campbell and sealybobo et al will let us know.

Have you killed any witches lately? What about snakes...do you pick them up?

The non-believers have half of the story.

Yes, the printing press, the increasing distribution of pamphlets and broadside and newspaper after 1800, the rise of telegraph and radio and movies and tv and internet -- all of that leads to awareness and understanding regarding religion, which is a very good thing.

But it never increases the American non-believers' share in a non-God world to more than 5%.

When it does, I am sure campbell and sealybobo et al will let us know.

PT Barnum said, "There's a Sucker Born Every Minute" and as someone else at this forum has pointed out the
population of the world was half of what it is today when he said it. There's two suckers born every minute
and religious malarky proves it.

The Vatican City has accumulated hundreds of billions of dollars worth of fine art, gold, silver, jewelry
and unique edifices while nearly a billion, mostly children starve to death. Over 12,000 children starve
or die from malnutrition each day while the churches own more real property than any other entity
in the world except the governments.

Folks dress in their finest, get up bright and early each Sunday and show up in their new SUVs for an hour
and a half to drop off a few dollars of their earnings and it all gets spent for new buildings, additions
to the old one, stained glass, oak or mahogany pews, fancy steeples, expensive musical instruments and sound systems, youth programs for their own, religious retreats, preachers salaries, homes and expenses, self serving missionaries, etc. and the givers stop for a Sunday dinner at a favorite restaurant then go home feeling good about themselves for another week. THE POOR BE DAMNED!!

And when people leave the church the church itself becomes the thing in need of charity. All over metro Detroit churches are closing.

Maybe it's gods will

 

[Campbell]

There's one thing I'm sure of.......Christians talk a mean game but that's as far as it goes. They ramble around in their new SUV's and take month long vacations and worry about how much their IRA's are bringing in each month while that is the direct opposite of what the new testament tells them to do. Most Christians know a few favorite verses about how they've been saved but ignore the ones which condemn their souls to hell. They should read the story of Lazrus and the rich man and the one which states that a rich man has as much chance of going to heaven that a camel has passing through the eye of a needle.

The non-believers have half of the story.

Yes, the printing press, the increasing distribution of pamphlets and broadside and newspaper after 1800, the rise of telegraph and radio and movies and tv and internet -- all of that leads to awareness and understanding regarding religion, which is a very good thing.

But it never increases the American non-believers' share in a non-God world to more than 5%.

When it does, I am sure campbell and sealybobo et al will let us know.

Have you killed any witches lately? What about snakes...do you pick them up?

The non-believers have half of the story.

Yes, the printing press, the increasing distribution of pamphlets and broadside and newspaper after 1800, the rise of telegraph and radio and movies and tv and internet -- all of that leads to awareness and understanding regarding religion, which is a very good thing.

But it never increases the American non-believers' share in a non-God world to more than 5%.

When it does, I am sure campbell and sealybobo et al will let us know.

PT Barnum said, "There's a Sucker Born Every Minute" and as someone else at this forum has pointed out the
population of the world was half of what it is today when he said it. There's two suckers born every minute
and religious malarky proves it.

The Vatican City has accumulated hundreds of billions of dollars worth of fine art, gold, silver, jewelry
and unique edifices while nearly a billion, mostly children starve to death. Over 12,000 children starve
or die from malnutrition each day while the churches own more real property than any other entity
in the world except the governments.

Folks dress in their finest, get up bright and early each Sunday and show up in their new SUVs for an hour
and a half to drop off a few dollars of their earnings and it all gets spent for new buildings, additions
to the old one, stained glass, oak or mahogany pews, fancy steeples, expensive musical instruments and sound systems, youth programs for their own, religious retreats, preachers salaries, homes and expenses, self serving missionaries, etc. and the givers stop for a Sunday dinner at a favorite restaurant then go home feeling good about themselves for another week. THE POOR BE DAMNED!!

And when people leave the church the church itself becomes the thing in need of charity. All over metro Detroit churches are closing.

Maybe it's gods will

Money and power were the reason for the initiation of religions anyway......they played on the natural born fears of mankind.....the "why are we here" question. You think people are stupid now??? Try 2000 years ago!

 

[Disir]

I see no problem with atheism being included in the material.

What is there to teach? No god, no heaven, no hell, just how we live this one life and hopefully leave it better for the next generation(s)

Class starts at 0800. Quiz at 0805. Then cookies. Yes, we brought cookies.

It is one thing to visualize a creator figure, like kicking a ball down the stairs to trigger the big bangs, or that the laws of science and math are like a mother nature or god controlling all things.
The idea that someone is manipulating life on earth or the universe, letting million die but favoring a few individuals, makes no logical sense. It might give one comfort to not feel alone but to pray and ask to win a football game while epidemics kill hundreds or an earthquake kills thousands and devastates a nation is not a nice "god" or one deserving of recognition.

Learning about god belongs in the church or home. Learning about religion in history and culture is teaching about the way people think and why they act, that belongs in a class room. It is understanding the psychology of the people at the time.

Why do people brutally massacre others for an empty promise of virgins and wine rather than act in peace and love of others that share the planet? For people like that, I wish there was a hell to relive every pain and suffering they inflicted on others over and over. Maybe to feel the pain of a suicide bomb in very slow motion.
What kind of god rewards brutality and allows innocents to suffer? Sorry, it makes no sense.

Children believe in fairy tales, but then they grow up and learn about people and the world. Fairy tales teach them to be cautions of stranger, to be good, to obey your parents. There are good and bad, there are morals, it gives hope of happy ending. So much easier than trying to teach a toddler about psychology, nature, law, life and death.

I agree. I cannot think of any time in history that it hasn't played some role or provided some clues whether it's the gossip of the times or defining who the movers and shakers were. It is a disservice to the public education system to remove it from the comparative religions section of social studies. We operate globally.

People that jump up and down about the pillars of Islam being taught remind me those folks that decided learning a foreign language is a bad thang. Well, here we are and it's 2016 and we don't have enough people that know Farsi or Arabic (and the dialects) or Russian or several other languages. That puts the US in a bad position of depending on someone else. It's literally setting kids up for failure.

Religion has been used and will continue to be used as a tool for ulterior motives. There is no denying it. It's used to hide behind individually as well. Sometimes it can hide mental illness.

I have lines drawn in the sand.

That said, I have spent the better part of a decade dealing with people that are in the middle of a crisis. So, no matter what I personally believe those situations aren't about me. It's not my job to walk in and tell an 80 year old woman facing mortality that she couldn't be more wrong. The dignity of being human. Do the least amount of harm.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The 80 year old is not wrong, and no one can prove that she is.

That is one of the geniuses of our Constitution: we can believe and speak as we want about these things, whether believers or not.

 

[Campbell]

The 80 year old is not wrong, and no one can prove that she is.

That is one of the geniuses of our Constitution: we can believe and speak as we want about these things, whether believers or not.

Damn Right You Can! Just because someone is ignorant doesn't mean they will stand trial for it.

 

[sealybobo]

There's one thing I'm sure of.......Christians talk a mean game but that's as far as it goes. They ramble around in their new SUV's and take month long vacations and worry about how much their IRA's are bringing in each month while that is the direct opposite of what the new testament tells them to do. Most Christians know a few favorite verses about how they've been saved but ignore the ones which condemn their souls to hell. They should read the story of Lazrus and the rich man and the one which states that a rich man has as much chance of going to heaven that a camel has passing through the eye of a needle.

The non-believers have half of the story.

Yes, the printing press, the increasing distribution of pamphlets and broadside and newspaper after 1800, the rise of telegraph and radio and movies and tv and internet -- all of that leads to awareness and understanding regarding religion, which is a very good thing.

But it never increases the American non-believers' share in a non-God world to more than 5%.

When it does, I am sure campbell and sealybobo et al will let us know.

Have you killed any witches lately? What about snakes...do you pick them up?

The non-believers have half of the story.

Yes, the printing press, the increasing distribution of pamphlets and broadside and newspaper after 1800, the rise of telegraph and radio and movies and tv and internet -- all of that leads to awareness and understanding regarding religion, which is a very good thing.

But it never increases the American non-believers' share in a non-God world to more than 5%.

When it does, I am sure campbell and sealybobo et al will let us know.

PT Barnum said, "There's a Sucker Born Every Minute" and as someone else at this forum has pointed out the
population of the world was half of what it is today when he said it. There's two suckers born every minute
and religious malarky proves it.

The Vatican City has accumulated hundreds of billions of dollars worth of fine art, gold, silver, jewelry
and unique edifices while nearly a billion, mostly children starve to death. Over 12,000 children starve
or die from malnutrition each day while the churches own more real property than any other entity
in the world except the governments.

Folks dress in their finest, get up bright and early each Sunday and show up in their new SUVs for an hour
and a half to drop off a few dollars of their earnings and it all gets spent for new buildings, additions
to the old one, stained glass, oak or mahogany pews, fancy steeples, expensive musical instruments and sound systems, youth programs for their own, religious retreats, preachers salaries, homes and expenses, self serving missionaries, etc. and the givers stop for a Sunday dinner at a favorite restaurant then go home feeling good about themselves for another week. THE POOR BE DAMNED!!

And when people leave the church the church itself becomes the thing in need of charity. All over metro Detroit churches are closing.

Maybe it's gods will

Money and power were the reason for the initiation of religions anyway......they played on the natural born fears of mankind.....the "why are we here" question. You think people are stupid now??? Try 2000 years ago!

2000 years ago? A blink of an eye. Think about it. We're soooo special to this god but we've only been around for about 100,000 years give or take? And modern history is only about 40,000 years give or take? We make up the last 40 seconds of the last minute of the last day of the cosmic calendar? That's literally NOTHING. We are just the newest species on one tiny rock. But apparently some humans think we are special and all this is for us.

[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0)][/COLOR]


We

 

[sealybobo]

There's one thing I'm sure of.......Christians talk a mean game but that's as far as it goes. They ramble around in their new SUV's and take month long vacations and worry about how much their IRA's are bringing in each month while that is the direct opposite of what the new testament tells them to do. Most Christians know a few favorite verses about how they've been saved but ignore the ones which condemn their souls to hell. They should read the story of Lazrus and the rich man and the one which states that a rich man has as much chance of going to heaven that a camel has passing through the eye of a needle.

The non-believers have half of the story.

Yes, the printing press, the increasing distribution of pamphlets and broadside and newspaper after 1800, the rise of telegraph and radio and movies and tv and internet -- all of that leads to awareness and understanding regarding religion, which is a very good thing.

But it never increases the American non-believers' share in a non-God world to more than 5%.

When it does, I am sure campbell and sealybobo et al will let us know.

Have you killed any witches lately? What about snakes...do you pick them up?

The non-believers have half of the story.

Yes, the printing press, the increasing distribution of pamphlets and broadside and newspaper after 1800, the rise of telegraph and radio and movies and tv and internet -- all of that leads to awareness and understanding regarding religion, which is a very good thing.

But it never increases the American non-believers' share in a non-God world to more than 5%.

When it does, I am sure campbell and sealybobo et al will let us know.

PT Barnum said, "There's a Sucker Born Every Minute" and as someone else at this forum has pointed out the
population of the world was half of what it is today when he said it. There's two suckers born every minute
and religious malarky proves it.

The Vatican City has accumulated hundreds of billions of dollars worth of fine art, gold, silver, jewelry
and unique edifices while nearly a billion, mostly children starve to death. Over 12,000 children starve
or die from malnutrition each day while the churches own more real property than any other entity
in the world except the governments.

Folks dress in their finest, get up bright and early each Sunday and show up in their new SUVs for an hour
and a half to drop off a few dollars of their earnings and it all gets spent for new buildings, additions
to the old one, stained glass, oak or mahogany pews, fancy steeples, expensive musical instruments and sound systems, youth programs for their own, religious retreats, preachers salaries, homes and expenses, self serving missionaries, etc. and the givers stop for a Sunday dinner at a favorite restaurant then go home feeling good about themselves for another week. THE POOR BE DAMNED!!

And when people leave the church the church itself becomes the thing in need of charity. All over metro Detroit churches are closing.

Maybe it's gods will

Money and power were the reason for the initiation of religions anyway......they played on the natural born fears of mankind.....the "why are we here" question. You think people are stupid now??? Try 2000 years ago!

Before organized religions they had mystics going around praying on people, reading their coffee cups or their palms. They just got organized.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The 80 year old is not wrong, and no one can prove that she is.

That is one of the geniuses of our Constitution: we can believe and speak as we want about these things, whether believers or not.

Damn Right You Can! Just because someone is ignorant doesn't mean they will stand trial for it.

You don't have to fear the courts, that's right.

 

[JakeStarkey]

There's one thing I'm sure of.......Christians talk a mean game but that's as far as it goes. They ramble around in their new SUV's and take month long vacations and worry about how much their IRA's are bringing in each month while that is the direct opposite of what the new testament tells them to do. Most Christians know a few favorite verses about how they've been saved but ignore the ones which condemn their souls to hell. They should read the story of Lazrus and the rich man and the one which states that a rich man has as much chance of going to heaven that a camel has passing through the eye of a needle.

The non-believers have half of the story.

Yes, the printing press, the increasing distribution of pamphlets and broadside and newspaper after 1800, the rise of telegraph and radio and movies and tv and internet -- all of that leads to awareness and understanding regarding religion, which is a very good thing.

But it never increases the American non-believers' share in a non-God world to more than 5%.

When it does, I am sure campbell and sealybobo et al will let us know.

Have you killed any witches lately? What about snakes...do you pick them up?

The non-believers have half of the story.

Yes, the printing press, the increasing distribution of pamphlets and broadside and newspaper after 1800, the rise of telegraph and radio and movies and tv and internet -- all of that leads to awareness and understanding regarding religion, which is a very good thing.

But it never increases the American non-believers' share in a non-God world to more than 5%.

When it does, I am sure campbell and sealybobo et al will let us know.

PT Barnum said, "There's a Sucker Born Every Minute" and as someone else at this forum has pointed out the
population of the world was half of what it is today when he said it. There's two suckers born every minute
and religious malarky proves it.

The Vatican City has accumulated hundreds of billions of dollars worth of fine art, gold, silver, jewelry
and unique edifices while nearly a billion, mostly children starve to death. Over 12,000 children starve
or die from malnutrition each day while the churches own more real property than any other entity
in the world except the governments.

Folks dress in their finest, get up bright and early each Sunday and show up in their new SUVs for an hour
and a half to drop off a few dollars of their earnings and it all gets spent for new buildings, additions
to the old one, stained glass, oak or mahogany pews, fancy steeples, expensive musical instruments and sound systems, youth programs for their own, religious retreats, preachers salaries, homes and expenses, self serving missionaries, etc. and the givers stop for a Sunday dinner at a favorite restaurant then go home feeling good about themselves for another week. THE POOR BE DAMNED!!

And when people leave the church the church itself becomes the thing in need of charity. All over metro Detroit churches are closing.

Maybe it's gods will

Money and power were the reason for the initiation of religions anyway......they played on the natural born fears of mankind.....the "why are we here" question. You think people are stupid now??? Try 2000 years ago!

2000 years ago? A blink of an eye. Think about it. We're soooo special to this god but we've only been around for about 100,000 years give or take? And modern history is only about 40,000 years give or take? We make up the last 40 seconds of the last minute of the last day of the cosmic calendar? That's literally NOTHING. We are just the newest species on one tiny rock. But apparently some humans think we are special and all this is for us.

[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0)][/COLOR]


We

Most do, yes.