CDZ Should prisoners be released from jail and prison over the Chinese virus?

[EvilCat Breath]

We do put too many people in jail. They never learn a lesson from that either. We don't need more laws. We need a wider array of punishments. If we had flogging for shoplifting, whipping for vandalism and caning for petty theft the criminals would learn a lesson the first time.

 

[JoeB131]

You lied about gun deaths, now having been caught, you resort to cheap emotion to hide getting caught.

Not at all.

Death by Murder -Dead.
Death by Suicide- Still Dead
Death by accident because his white trash relative left a gun where little timmy could get it. - Still Dead.

Really, I think you need to go to these people and tell THEM how it's no big deal.

 

[JoeB131]

We do put too many people in jail. They never learn a lesson from that either. We don't need more laws. We need a wider array of punishments. If we had flogging for shoplifting, whipping for vandalism and caning for petty theft the criminals would learn a lesson the first time.

Yeah. Flogging. That'll play well.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Do you read these things before you post them, Mormon Bob?

Newsom’s order released today notes Flowers “was 38 years old at the time of the crime and he is now 64,’’ and that the inmate has “resided on an honor yard and has been commended by his work supervisors,’’ and has “good prospects for community re-entry.”

So what?

He's a subhuman piece of shit, who brutally robbed and murdered an old woman. His kind should never, ever, ever, under any circumstances, be allowed to go free again. His kind shouldn't even be allowed to continue living, very far past the point where their guilt has been adequately established. He's a perfect example of someone whose sentence should have been served at the end of a rope.

That you would even defend setting this subhuman animal loose tells us everything that we need to know about your own character, albeit nothing that we didn't already all know.

As I said before, I don't know that you're a criminal, yourself, but it is certainly obvious that in terms of your mental and ethical and moral character, you are much, much more similar to the very worst of criminals, than you are to any law-abiding citizen. That is why, everywhere it's come down to it, you've openly taken the side of criminals, against the side of their victims or potential victims; and why you almost certainly always will.

Flowers has been completely institutionalized. He should never be released for his own good. He functions in an ordered society. He will not function nearly as well outside. Instead of helping him he will be removed from his support network, the only friends he has and probably lovers as well. He will most likely do what other long term inmates do upon release. He will commit some crime to get back "home".

 

[EvilCat Breath]

We do put too many people in jail. They never learn a lesson from that either. We don't need more laws. We need a wider array of punishments. If we had flogging for shoplifting, whipping for vandalism and caning for petty theft the criminals would learn a lesson the first time.

Yeah. Flogging. That'll play well.

View attachment 322548

It works well in civilized countries like Singapore.

 

[Indeependent]

I work in these areas and I know for a fact that you're an idiot.
In these areas, pussy is more important than life.

Wow, buddy... Are we going to get treated to more of your "wisdom" from white supremacist websites... You'd probably shit yourself if you ran into an actual minority.

I have relatives and friends in Chicago and I work in some Black areas and I want them to be educated and successful.
You spend your life "knowing" Brownie can't succeed without you.

 

[2aguy]

You lied about gun deaths, now having been caught, you resort to cheap emotion to hide getting caught.

Not at all.

Death by Murder -Dead.
Death by Suicide- Still Dead
Death by accident because his white trash relative left a gun where little timmy could get it. - Still Dead.

Really, I think you need to go to these people and tell THEM how it's no big deal.

Japan has extreme gun control, only criminals and cops get to have guns....and their suicide rate is higher than ours....you don't know what you are talking about......

Actual research...

Fact Check, Gun Control and Suicide

There is no relation between suicide rate and gun ownership rates around the world. According to the 2016 World Health Statistics report, (2) suicide rates in the four countries cited as having restrictive gun control laws have suicide rates that are comparable to that in the U. S.: Australia, 11.6, Canada, 11.4, France, 15.8, UK, 7.0, and USA 13.7 suicides/100,000. By comparison, Japan has among the highest suicide rates in the world, 23.1/100,000, but gun ownership is extremely rare, 0.6 guns/100 people.

Suicide is a mental health issue. If guns are not available other means are used. Poisoning, in fact, is the most common method of suicide for U. S. females according to the Washington Post (34 % of suicides), and suffocation the second most common method for males (27%).
Secondly, gun ownership rates in France and Canada are not low, as is implied in the Post article. The rate of gun ownership in the U. S. is indeed high at 88.8 guns/100 residents, but gun ownership rates are also among the world’s highest in the other countries cited. Gun ownership rates in these countries are are as follows: Australia, 15, Canada, 30.8, France, 31.2, and UK 6.2 per 100 residents. (3,4) Gun ownership rates in Saudia Arabia are comparable to that in Canada and France, with 37.8 guns per 100 Saudi residents, yet the lowest suicide rate in the world is in Saudia Arabia (0.3 suicides per 100,000).
Third, recent statistics in the state of Florida show that nearly one third of the guns used in suicides are obtained illegally, putting these firearm deaths beyond control through gun laws.(5)
Fourth, the primary factors affecting suicide rates are personal stresses, cultural, economic, religious factors and demographics. According to the WHO statistics, the highest rates of suicide in the world are in the Republic of Korea, with 36.8 suicides per 100,000, but India, Japan, Russia, and Hungary all have rates above 20 per 100,000; roughly twice as high as the U.S. and the four countries that are the basis for the Post’s calculation that gun control would reduce U.S. suicide rates by 20 to 38 percent. Lebanon, Oman, and Iraq all have suicide rates below 1.1 per 100,000 people--less than 1/10 the suicide rate in the U. S., and Afghanistan, Algeria, Jamaica, Haiti, and Egypt have low suicide rates that are below 4 per 100,000 in contrast to 13.7 suicides/100,000 in the U. S.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Gang killers, knowing their targets would be home for Christmas, launched a bloody weekend of shootings in Chicago that left 11 dead and another 37 wounded.

"We now know that the majority of these shootings and homicides were targeted attacks by gangs against potential rivals who were at holiday gatherings. This was followed by several acts of retaliatory gun violence," police spokesman Anthony Guglielmi said in a statement Monday.

Had nothing to do with my point.

I'm a numbers guy.. except I actually bother to research numbers.

National Youth Gang Survey Analysis: Measuring the Extent of Gang Problems

The NGC conducted an annual survey of law enforcement agencies to assess the extent of gang problems. This page shows data measuring the extent of gang problems.

www.nationalgangcenter.gov

Gang related homicides between 2008 and 2012 averaged 2000 a year out of some 17,000 homicides.

So we still have all those other homicides, which is things like people killing family members over who drank the last can of Milwaukee's Best.

Wrong.....again, as actual research shows 90% of murderers have long histories of crime an violence, they are not normal people killing the wife over a t.v. remote........

Roy Exum: How We Stop The Bullets

David Kennedy, a renowned criminal justice professor and co-chair of the National Network for Safe Communities, believes that places like the 1500 block of East 50th Street where Deontrey was killed, or Central Avenue where two other Chattanoogans were shot around the same time, aren’t necessarily bad areas. Good people live in those areas, just as the overwhelming numbers of those who live in our inner city are decent and law-abiding citizens.

No, our new focus isn’t on neighborhoods like Alton Park or East Chattanooga but instead on “hot” places” and “hot” people. In an article entitled, “The Story Behind the Nation’s Falling Body Count,” Kennedy writes, “Research on hot spots shows violence to be concentrated in ‘micro’ places, rather than ‘dangerous neighborhoods,’ as the popular idea goes. Blocks, corners, and buildings representing just five or six percent of an entire city will drive half of its serious crime.”

The same is true about people. “We now know that homicide and gun violence are overwhelmingly concentrated among serious offenders operating in groups: gangs, drug crews, and the like representing under half of one percent of a city's population who commit half to three-quarters of all murders.”

Read it once more: “ … under half of one percent … commit half to three-quarters of all murders.”

It is vitally important for us to realize the recent “worst of the worst” roundup had very little to do with race, yet to the uninformed it clearly appeared that only blacks were targeted.

Try to forget that all were black and focus instead on the far greater fact – there is ample evidence that each is alleged to be a serious criminal.

Kennedy writes, “We also know some reliable predictors of risk: individuals who have a history of violence or a close connection with prior victims are far more likely to be involved in violence themselves.


Hot groups and people are so hot that when their offending is statistically abstracted, their neighborhoods cease to be dangerous. Their communities aren't dangerous; (these criminals) are.”

You know Joe is insane.

Yes. We know.

 

[JoeB131]

Flowers has been completely institutionalized. He should never be released for his own good. He functions in an ordered society. He will not function nearly as well outside. Instead of helping him he will be removed from his support network, the only friends he has and probably lovers as well. He will most likely do what other long term inmates do upon release. He will commit some crime to get back "home".

What do you base this on?

Reality- older inmates rarely re-offend when released.

 

[JoeB131]

Japan has extreme gun control, only criminals and cops get to have guns....and their suicide rate is higher than ours....you don't know what you are talking about......

They also have a culture that suicide is glorified and condoned, so not the same thing.

It's really pretty simple. You don't let citizens have guns, they don't go around shooting people.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Flowers has been completely institutionalized. He should never be released for his own good. He functions in an ordered society. He will not function nearly as well outside. Instead of helping him he will be removed from his support network, the only friends he has and probably lovers as well. He will most likely do what other long term inmates do upon release. He will commit some crime to get back "home".

What do you base this on?

Reality- older inmates rarely re-offend when released.

View attachment 322551

I base this on 35 years of being a criminal defense attorney. Older inmates that have been incarcerated for many years have nothing outside of the prison system. What friends they had when they went inside are long dead. If there is some family left they don't know this old stranger. I've known old inmates to give things to other inmates saying "hold this for me until I get back".

Generally you find the elderly institutionalized inmate is a trustee. They are well behaved and know their environment inside and out. When released they don't know anyone, have nothing to do, can't live on the stipend they get and become depressed. Like anyone taken from familiar surroundings.

Stop romanticizing and thinking that letting old inmates out after decades behind bars is a good thing.

 

[2aguy]

Flowers has been completely institutionalized. He should never be released for his own good. He functions in an ordered society. He will not function nearly as well outside. Instead of helping him he will be removed from his support network, the only friends he has and probably lovers as well. He will most likely do what other long term inmates do upon release. He will commit some crime to get back "home".

What do you base this on?

Reality- older inmates rarely re-offend when released.

View attachment 322551

But they do re-offend.....and someone who murders another human being shouldn't be allowed out with other innocent people.....

 

[2aguy]

Japan has extreme gun control, only criminals and cops get to have guns....and their suicide rate is higher than ours....you don't know what you are talking about......

They also have a culture that suicide is glorified and condoned, so not the same thing.

It's really pretty simple. You don't let citizens have guns, they don't go around shooting people.

Yeah....doesn't matter, guns don't effect their suicide rate, and the other link I posted stated guns have no influence on suicide rates....from Psychology today....

You are just wrong.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Flowers has been completely institutionalized. He should never be released for his own good. He functions in an ordered society. He will not function nearly as well outside. Instead of helping him he will be removed from his support network, the only friends he has and probably lovers as well. He will most likely do what other long term inmates do upon release. He will commit some crime to get back "home".

What do you base this on?

Reality- older inmates rarely re-offend when released.

View attachment 322551

But they do re-offend.....and someone who murders another human being shouldn't be allowed out with other innocent people.....

When old inmates reoffend they rarely hurt anyone. They just want to go to the only home they know.

 

[22lcidw]

We do put too many people in jail. They never learn a lesson from that either. We don't need more laws. We need a wider array of punishments. If we had flogging for shoplifting, whipping for vandalism and caning for petty theft the criminals would learn a lesson the first time.

Yeah. Flogging. That'll play well.

View attachment 322548

Singapore style Joe?

 

[JoeB131]

I base this on 35 years of being a criminal defense attorney.

I thought you were a shop owner/painter.

Nobody believes you were an attorney.

But they do re-offend.....and someone who murders another human being shouldn't be allowed out with other innocent people.....

Again, guy, that's not what our laws are. Our laws allow for the possibility of parole or probation. We've tried it your way, we have 2 million people in prison and we STILL have the highest crime rates in the industrialized world.

We've been doing "Cruel and Stupid" for years now. Maybe it's time to try something else.

 

[JoeB131]

Yeah....doesn't matter, guns don't effect their suicide rate, and the other link I posted stated guns have no influence on suicide rates....from Psychology today....

Let's ban guns and find out. After we've banned guns, and the suicide rate remains the same, I'll totally apologize.

We won't let you nuts have your guns back, but I'll totes apologize.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

I base this on 35 years of being a criminal defense attorney.

I thought you were a shop owner/painter.

Nobody believes you were an attorney.

But they do re-offend.....and someone who murders another human being shouldn't be allowed out with other innocent people.....

Again, guy, that's not what our laws are. Our laws allow for the possibility of parole or probation. We've tried it your way, we have 2 million people in prison and we STILL have the highest crime rates in the industrialized world.

We've been doing "Cruel and Stupid" for years now. Maybe it's time to try something else.

I don't give a rat's ass what posters on a message board think. I got so disgusted with the court system, actually being the victim of a violent crime myself changed my mind, I chucked it all and went back to school in my 60s to learn dog grooming. I've painted for a good many years with a bit of success now and then. Would you be one of one dimensionals?

An American teen committed an act of vandalism in Singapore with a can of spray paint. He was caned. LIkely he never did it again. I've run across many many teens who commit petty crimes. They laugh, giggle, ya ain't gonna do nuthin ta me. They are right. Prison is to harsh. They get let go by a judge practically begging the little thug not to do it again.

If we had an appropriate punishment like 30 swats of the lash the kid might think twice knowing a second offense was 45 swats.

 

[Crixus]

Mayor Deblasio in New York is going to start releasing prisoners from New York Jails....they claim it will be less dangerous criminals...but keep in mind, many criminals have illegal gun charges plea bargained down in order to get a successful prosecution.....so they are far from "non-violent."

NYC Mayor to start emptying jails over virus spread

Even as major crimes aside from murder and rape have been on the rise in New York City, the jail population is about to go down. Probably by a lot. Citing concerns over the spread of the coronavirus, Mayor Bill de Blasio announced this week that the city would begin releasing people from jail early in a number of different categories. Because when you’ve got a major epidemic disrupting life in your town, what better time to have a bunch more criminals roaming the streets, right? (NY Post)
--------

Prisoners serving terms of less than one year will also (mostly) be released. That’s going to include a lot of street-level drug dealers, as well as those accused of assault or property crimes like retail theft, burglary, and similar offenses. But don’t worry. I’m sure that people who were willing to violate all of those types of laws will absolutely listen to the Governor’s shelter in place orders and not go around breaking into people’s apartments.

Maybe it’s just my faulty memory, but I thought all of the major jails and prisons in the region had medical facilities right on the premises. Wouldn’t you think that a facility full of jail cells would be pretty well set up for isolating sick people? Particularly when some of those cells are specifically labeled as “isolation?” It just seems as if you’re running more of a risk of spreading the disease by dumping them back out on the streets instead of keeping them where you know where they are and who they are coming in contact with.

No. And our cowardly HPD put it out that they are not responding to any calls that arent murder rape or whatever they deem "serious".

 

[miketx]

And, with luck, he can serve another 26 years as a model prisoner...

And if they shank a few guards, because why not, that would work.

You do realize that the hope of parole is the ONLY thing that keeps these guys behaved, right?

Lol, now he's a criminal psychologist. Lemme tell ya, you are full of crap. I worked in a prison and we had to kinds of criminals. State jail offenders and TDC offenders. State fail offenders got NO parole and NO good time. Tell us expert, what kept those guy behaved? I'll tell ya, it was the fear of having 12 oz. of pepper spray applied to his face and then being thrown in a 5x8 cell with only a steel bed and a toilet. Now tell us some more nonsense because you don't know anything about prison.