Should our Constitution's 2nd Amendment be amended ... ?

[Where_r_my_Keys]

The burden is on you to prove that a god exists.

That's already been established in this thread... you simply choose to 'believe' that you do not exist, as a means to defend your foolish 'belief'.

 

[Boss]

Well I don't need to prove God exists. I already know. You seem to need to prove God exists. You're sure going out of your way to make sure we know that you don't believe it's possible God does exist... sounds like you are searching for proof. I really do hope that you'll one day find the proof you need to believe in God.

Now I can help you in searching for evidence. Your first problem is where you're looking. For some crazy reason you're thinking that physical science should be able to prove God if one exists. But God, as we know, is not physical. God is a Spiritual entity connected with your soul. A physical God wouldn't serve much of a purpose. The evidence you need to evaluate is spiritual evidence. The problem is, you don't believe in Spiritual Nature. So we have kind of a Catch 22 here.

I can also give you some advice through my counsel with many people. Atheist Nihilism is a lonely and depressing road to travel. I have seldom met really old people who are Atheists. When you're young and wild, it's great to be an Atheist... fuck that Jesus crap, let's party baby! But as you grow older and life starts to happen upon you... things start to change. If you neglect your soul for too long there is no getting it back.

The burden is on you to prove that a god exists. I believe that Obama is the president of the US. This is an easily provable fact. I will drown if I stay underwater and don't come up to breath. A provable fact. There is nothing provable about a god. Only faith. Nothing more.

Old people start believing in a god out of fear. Nothing more, nothing less. There is no inherent belief just a sadness and fear that their lives have come to an end and that is it.

You don't need to believe in a god to be spiritual or have a good soul.

Why wouldn't a physical god serve a purpose? Why does he or she have to be supernatural? Sounds like a cop-out to me. A ready-made excuse that gives a free pass to those who believe that they don't have to prove their assertion of a god.

No... When the claim is made that God does not exist... it is not my obligation to prove God exists. It is YOUR obligation to prove God does not exist. And the same goes for your other tripe that you assume is fact but you can't support. You have this set of opinions that you seem to want to demand everyone accept as facts and then challenge them to be disproved. I don't spend my life trying to disprove your wrongheaded opinions... sorry.

If you believe in spirit and soul, you already believe in God. It may not be the incarnation of God that others have, you may not even call it God. But your spirituality and soul are metaphysical, they are not physical. This is not to be confused with supernatural or superstition. It is perfectly natural for all humans to experience human spirituality. It's our most defining attribute as a species.

 

[Boss]

The creation is a myth

How do you explain our existence?

 

[Dr Grump]

So Creation is a myth, therefore you are a myth, thus you do not exist?

ROFLMNAO!

Reader, what you witnessed in the above cited drivel is OKA: D E L U S I O N: an idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by reality and/or rational argument, typically a symptom of mental disorder.

Well, I am not a myth. How you think I came into being is.
I would like to know what your reality and/or rational argument consists of...

 

[Dr Grump]

That's already been established in this thread... you simply choose to 'believe' that you do not exist, as a means to defend your foolish 'belief'.

You are the one with the belief system, not I....

 

[Dr Grump]

No... When the claim is made that God does not exist... it is not my obligation to prove God exists. It is YOUR obligation to prove God does not exist. And the same goes for your other tripe that you assume is fact but you can't support. You have this set of opinions that you seem to want to demand everyone accept as facts and then challenge them to be disproved. I don't spend my life trying to disprove your wrongheaded opinions... sorry.

If you believe in spirit and soul, you already believe in God. It may not be the incarnation of God that others have, you may not even call it God. But your spirituality and soul are metaphysical, they are not physical. This is not to be confused with supernatural or superstition. It is perfectly natural for all humans to experience human spirituality. It's our most defining attribute as a species.

No, you are claiming he exists, not I. This is another one of those superficial arguments created by religious people to somehow put the onus on non-believers to provide evidence of their non-faith. I don't have a faith-based position. You do. Therefore it is yours to prove, not mine.

I don't believe in spirits or souls.

 

[Dr Grump]

The creation is a myth

How do you explain our existence?

Evolution. The Big Bang. What I do know, it wasn't caused by some super natural being made up by humans...

 

[Boss]

The creation is a myth

How do you explain our existence?

Evolution. The Big Bang. What I do know, it wasn't caused by some super natural being made up by humans...

You don't know anything. You believe something but you can't know it. There is nothing "supernatural" about God. Is dark matter and dark energy also supernatural? We can't see it, observe it or test it... so it must be supernatural, right? What about the other dimensions predicted by physics? Do they also "not exist" because we don't interact with them?

"Spooky action at a distance" is what Einstein said about the quantum universe. The wavefunction collapse and quantum entanglement.... myths and fairy tales? Supernatural nonsense?

The Big Bang was a CREATION event. Therefore, you believe in Creation.
Spontaneous Evolution, although it has been completely debunked by science, is also a CREATION event. You believe in Creation. The difference is, you don't think anything can be responsible for the creation... it just inexplicably happened for no reason.

I cannot rationalize your theory. I see a universe that is precisely fine tuned as it has to be, cosmological constants as they need to be, a planet with a intricate and delicately balanced ecosystem and environment perfectly suited for carbon based life and an amazing array of wonder in the circle of inter-dependent life forms. I just cannot accept that happened by accident or chance or randomness.

Now, I don't ask you to believe what I believe, you are free to have your own opinion. I don't need to prove my God exists to you or anyone else. But by the same token, you're not ever going to be allowed to cram your beliefs down my throat as facts.

 

[Boss]

No... When the claim is made that God does not exist... it is not my obligation to prove God exists. It is YOUR obligation to prove God does not exist. And the same goes for your other tripe that you assume is fact but you can't support. You have this set of opinions that you seem to want to demand everyone accept as facts and then challenge them to be disproved. I don't spend my life trying to disprove your wrongheaded opinions... sorry.

If you believe in spirit and soul, you already believe in God. It may not be the incarnation of God that others have, you may not even call it God. But your spirituality and soul are metaphysical, they are not physical. This is not to be confused with supernatural or superstition. It is perfectly natural for all humans to experience human spirituality. It's our most defining attribute as a species.

No, you are claiming he exists, not I. This is another one of those superficial arguments created by religious people to somehow put the onus on non-believers to provide evidence of their non-faith. I don't have a faith-based position. You do. Therefore it is yours to prove, not mine.

I don't believe in spirits or souls.

Sorry, you said: You don't need to believe in a god to be spiritual or have a good soul. And it sounded like you were saying you believe in souls and spirituality but not God.

No, you are claiming he exists, not I.

Yes, I believe that God does exist. I don't need to prove it to you and I don't require you to believe it. You say your opinion is not faith based but it is. Your opinion is that God doesn't exist. Proving things comes into play when someone is trying to establish an opinion as fact. I have no problem admitting I can't prove God exists. However, you seem to think there is some scientific basis in fact to support your opinion that God doesn't exist. And that is where we're having a problem.

Okay... let's have a little analogy fun... I assume if I asked you whether you believe your mother exists, you would tell me... of course, you are certain of it! But what if I say I don't believe you? I think you're making up your mother out of fear and superstition. So you invite me to come to your house and you'll introduce me to her, and I go... but then I laugh at you and mock your mother as an impostor. You show me your DNA that matches with hers, proving she must be your mother... still, I chortle and laugh that off as more nonsense. And this goes on for quite some time... me insisting that your mother doesn't exist and you claiming she certainly does.

How long will it take you to realize you don't need to prove your mother exists to me?

 

[Dr Grump]

I don't need to prove my God exists to you or anyone else. But by the same token, you're not ever going to be allowed to cram your beliefs down my throat as facts.

I don't need to respond to your other babble because the above is the crux of the matter.
The only reason you believe in your God (and I assume it is the Christian god) is because of where you were born. The ONLY reason you believe in him is because you were born into it, or you have lived in a society where it is prominent. If you lived in India you would be most likely a Hindu or less likely a Muslim. If you were born in Iran you would be a Muslim. Thailand, a Buddhist. Don't you think it strange that 99.9 percent of religious beliefs are tied to where a person was born, not some spontaneous manifestation of a core belief held by the majority of the world's population?

As for cramming beliefs down somebody's throat, that is exactly the poison of religion. That is why religion is a disease - especially Islam and Christianity. You want your religious beliefs to be law. Abortion is but one example. Prayer in school another.

I'm not trying to cram anything down your throat. Just don't cram your beliefs down mine by trying to legislate them into law and we'll be doing just fine....

 

[Dr Grump]

No... When the claim is made that God does not exist... it is not my obligation to prove God exists. It is YOUR obligation to prove God does not exist. And the same goes for your other tripe that you assume is fact but you can't support. You have this set of opinions that you seem to want to demand everyone accept as facts and then challenge them to be disproved. I don't spend my life trying to disprove your wrongheaded opinions... sorry.

If you believe in spirit and soul, you already believe in God. It may not be the incarnation of God that others have, you may not even call it God. But your spirituality and soul are metaphysical, they are not physical. This is not to be confused with supernatural or superstition. It is perfectly natural for all humans to experience human spirituality. It's our most defining attribute as a species.

No, you are claiming he exists, not I. This is another one of those superficial arguments created by religious people to somehow put the onus on non-believers to provide evidence of their non-faith. I don't have a faith-based position. You do. Therefore it is yours to prove, not mine.

I don't believe in spirits or souls.

Sorry, you said: You don't need to believe in a god to be spiritual or have a good soul. And it sounded like you were saying you believe in souls and spirituality but not God.

No, you are claiming he exists, not I.

Yes, I believe that God does exist. I don't need to prove it to you and I don't require you to believe it. You say your opinion is not faith based but it is. Your opinion is that God doesn't exist. Proving things comes into play when someone is trying to establish an opinion as fact. I have no problem admitting I can't prove God exists. However, you seem to think there is some scientific basis in fact to support your opinion that God doesn't exist. And that is where we're having a problem.

Okay... let's have a little analogy fun... I assume if I asked you whether you believe your mother exists, you would tell me... of course, you are certain of it! But what if I say I don't believe you? I think you're making up your mother out of fear and superstition. So you invite me to come to your house and you'll introduce me to her, and I go... but then I laugh at you and mock your mother as an impostor. You show me your DNA that matches with hers, proving she must be your mother... still, I chortle and laugh that off as more nonsense. And this goes on for quite some time... me insisting that your mother doesn't exist and you claiming she certainly does.

How long will it take you to realize you don't need to prove your mother exists to me?

Bad analogy, and you've proved my point. I can prove the existence via DNA and a plethora of other means. Believing in a god is a completely different thing and process. You are comparing apples with oranges...

 

[Boss]

Bad analogy, and you've proved my point. I can prove the existence via DNA and a plethora of other means. Believing in a god is a completely different thing and process. You are comparing apples with oranges...

And likewise, I can prove God's existence through a plethora of miracles, blessings and testimonials of divine intervention. There is no difference in the comparison, proof requires belief in the evidence. If I don't believe your mother exists, it doesn't matter what evidence you show me. You don't believe God exists and it doesn't matter what evidence I show you.

I understand that to you, it's a different process... I can imagine if I believed God was an invisible man on a cloud in the sky who got angry and judged us... yeah, I'd have trouble believing such a thing. I wouldn't understand how someone could believe such nonsense as opposed to scientific tests and things like that. But our perspectives are very different.

The God I believe in is Spiritual. It's not something that has physical properties which can be measured by physical sciences. It's not supernatural... it's every bit a part of nature as everything, it's just not physical. I do not belong to any religion, I am a Spiritualist. My family was religious for the most part, but I rebelled against their religion when I was in my 20s and was an Atheist for a while. In fact, my sister still refers to me as her "atheist brother" to others.

The thing that I couldn't avoid was my own soul and spirit. Eventually, I came to realize there is a Spiritual energy and nature and I can tap into it through deep meditation. It took a series of life-altering events to make me realize this. So I fully understand where you're at.

 

[Boss]

I don't need to prove my God exists to you or anyone else. But by the same token, you're not ever going to be allowed to cram your beliefs down my throat as facts.

I don't need to respond to your other babble because the above is the crux of the matter.
The only reason you believe in your God (and I assume it is the Christian god) is because of where you were born. The ONLY reason you believe in him is because you were born into it, or you have lived in a society where it is prominent. If you lived in India you would be most likely a Hindu or less likely a Muslim. If you were born in Iran you would be a Muslim. Thailand, a Buddhist. Don't you think it strange that 99.9 percent of religious beliefs are tied to where a person was born, not some spontaneous manifestation of a core belief held by the majority of the world's population?

As for cramming beliefs down somebody's throat, that is exactly the poison of religion. That is why religion is a disease - especially Islam and Christianity. You want your religious beliefs to be law. Abortion is but one example. Prayer in school another.

I'm not trying to cram anything down your throat. Just don't cram your beliefs down mine by trying to legislate them into law and we'll be doing just fine....

Well you assume wrong, I am not a Christian and I don't personally believe in the God of Abraham. I believe in Spiritual energy and nature, as I said above. My God isn't a male or female humanistic incarnation. It's not sitting in judgment but it is guiding a path to something beyond. It doesn't care if you believe in it and it doesn't get angry if you don't. Punishment or reward in an afterlife is all speculative and subjective. It's of no value to me personally to worry about it.

Now I don't demand you believe in any of this. It's MY belief. I can't prove that my belief is right but I don't need to.

Don't you think it strange that 99.9 percent of religious beliefs are tied to where a person was born, not some spontaneous manifestation of a core belief held by the majority of the world's population?

Don't you find it strange that in 95 percent of the population where human civilizations have ever been found, the people were spiritual? Or, that we've never found any archaeological or paleontological evidence of an Atheist civilization?

You want your religious beliefs to be law.

Well, as I've said, I don't have a religion. But I am opposed to abortion and I think prayer in school along with the pledge of allegiance is a good idea we should have never gotten rid of. It has nothing to do with my religious beliefs, since I don't have those. I think an unborn life is just as important as yours and mine with regard to the constitution. Again, we have a difference of opinion. Your opinion is not the fact.

Every person in this country has the right to express their political views and help shape and mold the laws we live by. You don't get to shut religious people in the closet and not allow them a say. They have just as much right to pass laws based on their religious convictions as you have to challenge them.

I'm not trying to cram anything down your throat.

Well, you were. You were trying to proclaim God doesn't exist and people who believe God exists are morons who believe in fairy tales because they were raised that way. I challenged you to prove that God doesn't exist and you got all butt hurt and demanded that I should prove God does exist... but I wasn't the one making a claim and demanding it be accepted as a fact. I believe God exists, you don't have to believe it.