Should Israel separate Church and State?

[rylah]

Rabbi Oury Sherky - Halacha State - what does it even mean?

An issue that is gaining momentum in Israeli discourse, even before Knesset Member Bezalel Smutrich's statement last week - Halacha State; And as the famous sticker article "Medianat Halacha - Halcha HaMedina " (word play on 'state of Halacha - gone the state'). However, before taking a stand - for / against the Hebrew court - it is imperative to find out what this is all about. Rabbi Sherky explains why one should not be alarmed by Halachic state laws, what is a Halacha state at all? How will it operate if and when it comes up? And why would any of us want a state of Halacha?

This lecture explains Rabbi Sherky's position on the state of Halakha, as presented in his article - Halachic Scarecrow (L'épouvantail de la Halakha).

Comment: the lecture goes beyond the typical talking points
and deals with the practical aspects of transition from a democratic nation state to parliamentary monarchy. The specific legal steps, and boundaries of authority of the Hebrew court regarding modern state governing, and the authority of common law and popular vote of the state subjects in the structure of parliamentary monarchy.

I.e. what opportunities open regarding popular vote to renew Torah law naturally in line with the reality of the Jewish people in modern times. Does it mean Torah law forces us to change, or does it mean Torah law prescribes each generation to accommodate it with the reality of human development and apply it accordingly?

Very interesting, but currently only in Hebrew.



Indeependent ma da'atcha?

 

[Likkmee]

We should have separated IsNtReal from earth after the US Liberty incident and let them chase their Pals on camelback with bolt action rifles. The only good thing about the Covid and Co-black vural activity is the news isn't littered constantly with their bullshit

 

[rylah]

We should have separated IsNtReal from earth after the US Liberty incident and let them chase their Pals on camelback with bolt action rifles. The only good thing about the Covid and Co-black vural activity is the news isn't littered constantly with their bullshit

Will there come a day when you have something relevant to the actual discussion,
beyond the vulgar trolling?

The US aid only started after that by the way,
after you guys saw we could chase five Arab armies and the Soviets with them,
"on camelback and bolt action rifles" on our own.

 

[rylah]

This is a taste of what is Meshiach ben Yosef,
next stage is parliamentary monarchy, Meshiach ben David.

In '67 these were the die hard socialists Kibbutzim fighting for Jerusalem,
Today's it's the young generation that passes the Jewish state basic law,
and actively resettles Judea.

What do you think will be the Arab reaction the day they read the headlines,
about Israelis actually reinstating a Jewish king?

Something tells me, many would rather proclaim alliance and cooperation,
than try messing up with the Yahoods...

Parliamentary monarchy, naturally.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Will there come a day when you have something relevant to the actual discussion,
beyond the vulgar trolling?

The US aid only started after that by the way,
after you guys saw we could chase five Arab armies and the Soviets with them,
"on camelback and bolt action rifles" on our own.

One of the common traits among antisemites is that the are worthless failures in life and rather than doing anything to improve themselves merely blame a convenient exterior target. Since all the canards of antisemitism revolve around supposed Jewish influence, manipulation and double dealing these losers just can't resist.

 

[ESay]

what opportunities open regarding popular vote to renew Torah law naturally in line with the reality of the Jewish people in modern times. Does it mean Torah law forces us to change, or does it mean Torah law prescribes each generation to accommodate it with the reality of human development and apply it accordingly

The reasonable answer would be - yes. Wouldn't it? And what laws can be reviewed to be in accordance with our time?

 

[rylah]

The reasonable answer would be - yes. Wouldn't it? And what laws can be reviewed to be in accordance with our time?

More like the result of national consensus.
Take Hebrew as an example, it's the official state language, Jewish law.
Shabbat is the national official rest day, this is already Jewish law.

No one really forced those things.

It's a Halachic principle - not to force laws that people can't follow.
Hebrew court doesn't enforce laws which potentially criminalize the majority.

Britain is a parliamentary monarchy, democracy.

 

[ding]

No much consensus when there is a ruling sect and no separation of church and state.

Post | Midbar Kodesh Temple

www.midbarkodesh.org

 

[rylah]

No much consensus when there is a ruling sect and no separation of church and state.

Post | Midbar Kodesh Temple

www.midbarkodesh.org

dingy dong have you got more "dog bar mitzvah" "rabbays",
to troll around the subject?

Dude get real.

 

[ding]

dingy dong have you got more "dog bar mitzvah" "rabbays",
to troll around the subject?

Dude get real.

The point remains despite your beliefs about me.

There can be no consensus when there is a ruling religious sect and no separation of church and state.

 

[rylah]

One of the common traits among antisemites is that the are worthless failures in life and rather than doing anything to improve themselves merely blame a convenient exterior target. Since all the canards of antisemitism revolve around supposed Jewish influence, manipulation and double dealing these losers just can't resist.

That's why Ben Gurion correctly concluded "UN Shmun - it's not important what the nations say, important is what we do."

Blessed those who bless us, cursed those who curse.

For from their beginning, I see them as mountain peaks, and I behold them as hills; it is a nation that will dwell alone, and will not be reckoned among the nations. Bamidbar​

 

[ESay]

It's a Halachic principle - not to force laws that people can't follow.
Hebrew court doesn't enforce laws which potentially criminalize the majority

Can you give an example of such laws?

 

[rylah]

The point remains despite your beliefs about me.

There can be no consensus when there is a ruling religious sect and no separation of church and state.

That's what leaders are for.
Was there a consensus on the day of declaration of independence?
Ben Gurion decided and that was it.

Barely a pope figure

 

[ding]

That's what leaders are for.
Was there a consensus on the day of declaration of independence?

Ben Gurion decided and that was it.
Barely a pope figure.

ahhhh.... there it is. Thanks.

 

[ding]

And therein lies the problem with a theocracy.

 

[rylah]

Can you give an example of such laws?

Remember the example of stoning punishment for desecrating Shabbat?
That was used only twice in all Jewish history, when the Sanhedrin saw they'd have to apply capital punishment, they exited the Gazit lodge, in order to not be able to judge on these cases at all.

These weren't modern times, it's just common sense - for whom are the laws?
G-d said that we should "live in them", it's a basic principle when most of Israel are guilty of even idolatry, the obligation on persecution is absolved of humans into the hands of the heaven's court.

Rabbi Sherki specifically looks into Shabbat desecration in public, and the specific ruling that the Hebrew court can take to circumvent this issue if capital punishment was even possible, which the Jewish law itself prevent us today in the first place, regardless of what state form we may choose.

 

[rylah]

And therein lies the problem with a theocracy.

What's the problem?

G-d save the queen is allowed,
but no God save the king?

Theocracy is actually described by Josephus as an illegitimate form according to Jewish rule,
which is correct - priesthood is banned from monarchy and right to land ownership.

That's why no one is talking about a Hasmonean type rule,
rather a parliamentary monarchy of the House of David,
with total separation of priesthood from government.

It's not the govt becoming a big synagogue,
rather giving legal tools for the state itself and it's elected body,
to reorder the Jewish law from diaspora mode to align with a reconstituted sovereignty.

 

[ding]

What's the problem?

G-d save the queen is allowed,
but no God save the king?

The same problem with all theocracies. No freedom to worship God as we see fit.

 

[rylah]

The same problem with all theocracies. No freedom to worship God as we see fit.

You do realize Israel is both one of the most diverse
and happiest countries in the world?

The US has cities with higher death statistic from crime in one decade,
than casualties in all history of Arab-Israeli wars on both sides combined.

 

[ding]

You do realize Israel is both one of the most diverse
and happiest countries in the world?

The US has cities with higher death statistic from crime in one decade,
than casualties in all history of Arab-Israeli wars on both sides combined.

Sure and has absolutely nothing to do with my point about theocracies. No freedom to worship God as we see fit.