I am creating this thread as a final project for a college class on diversity. I chose this immigration forum because it sparked the most interest in me. I know there is a lot of controversy right now surrounding the Presidents new program to protect millions of illegal immigrants from deportation and I was wondering about everyone's opinion. Please be respectful in this discussion as it is for a class project.
I think if the illegal immigrants can pass a criminal background check and are willing to work and pay taxes like everyone else then they should be allowed to stay.
........................................................
Things your overlooking.
The millions of people waiting to come into the country legally. Can we truly say there is equal protection of the law when we reward those who break it over those who go by the right path?
Immigrants, if granted amnesty, would be net takers of tax benefits, not payers. (Like poorer Americans, their tax returns would be greater than the taxes paid, even taking into account sales taxes.)
The educational needs of their non-English speaking/partially English speaking children are already burdening our schools. If you place them in the same classes as other students they will not only fall behind, but they will drag other students with them. If you make special classes for them it will be the US residents who foot the bill.
An amnesty would encourage others to come illegally. There is no real way the US government can prove that an immigrant child was not born in the United States and there is no real way to prove that an immigrant has been here for less than the request time. Documents and receipts can be forged or shared. They are already doing this with social security cards and birth certificates.
To make it fair they should pay the immigration fee, get in the back of the line, and self deport. But do you know how long the line is for permanent residencies from Mexico? Between 20-30 years!!! Think about all those people waiting in line before you jump to conclusions on those here illegally. If you think this isn't fair then understand that each country gets a certain allocation of visas per year. What these people did was simply hop in the front of millions waiting for their turn. Once again, not equal protection under the law.
There is some debate whether they will receive government benefits or not. If they have a child, yes they will. But they, for the most part, they cannot. So they are exempt from Obama care rules and regulations making them more attractive to hire than US citizens.
Obama amnesty Obamacare clash Businesses have 3 000 incentive to hire illegals - Washington Times
...........................................................................
Diversity, in it of itself, is not something that should be hailed or rejected. But we should ask ourselves why is diversity important. There is in fact some cases where diversity isn't preferred. Culturally conservative cultures who don't get along with others are generally poor migrants (See Norway Below). Culturally liberal cultures are more preferable. However, and this is important, if you are a culturally liberal society and you invite a culturally conservative people to live amongst you it will inevitably lead to division. (This is not "liberal" or "conservative" in the political sense). There is a good reason we limit immigration numbers. We want to maintain the society we built whereas we have the rule of law and relatively low poverty and crime. The limited on the numbers of migrants allocated are designed to afford some time for assimilation into the American way of life. We do not want the United States to become pockets of little Mexico with the same culture that gave rise to the very corrupt system those Mexicans are fleeing. This goes the same for any other country.
This video will help you unlearn everything that college class has taught you. This is the opposing view that they denied you while casting those who disagree as racists and bigots. I was forced to take similar classes in college.
Thank you for your reply! You have definitely made very valid points. I am in no way stating that I feel it is ok to break the law. I do agree that it is not fair to those who have been trying to immigrate to the U.S. legally and have been waiting in line for a very long time. I also agree that it could definitely send the wrong message to others wanting to come over here illegally and could possibly create more of an influx of illegal immigrants. I just can't really draw up a reasonable/resourceful way to deport them either.
I know many do work with stolen S.S. numbers and I know a lot of them work under the table as well. One of the things I had learned in class that I thought was interesting was many of them work with our crops in major locations (such as California) and do a lot of the picking that many of feel is beneath us. Senator Dianne Feinstein had once warned that without the illegal immigrants California's agriculture would shut down and there would be a drastic increase in the prices of fruits and vegetables which would most likely cause a revolt by consumers if food costs skyrocketed. This puts California's agriculture industry, which includes 76,000 farms and 1 million laborers, at stake. We also discussed in class that a lot of time a family member will come to the U.S. illegally and work for several years to send money home to their family. Once the have earned enough money, they will actually go back home as well.
Also, a lot of illegal immigrants give birth to children in the U.S. and those children have the same opportunity to excel in the school systems just the same as you and me. Many of them are bi-lingual, which is a standard in a lot of European countries that get way better ratings education wise than the U.S. For the children who haven't been attending schools in the U.S. their entire education this is where programs like the No Child Left Behind Act come into play. This act requires schools to rely on scientifically based research for programs and teaching methods. Further more teachers should be looking at the children they are teaching in a holistic manner, meaning no two children are alike and will learn the same. Teachers should take into account cultural background and previous education for their teachings.
Again I am not trying to sway you in any way, I just feel very torn on the subject. I definitely feel like if they are granted amnesty they should have to follow all of the rules just like everyone else and not receive and special treatment. (BTW I really enjoyed the video. Of course everyone wants to have "fluffy" feelings on multiculturalism, especially in todays society where I feel like a lot of times many feel like they are walking around egg shells when it comes to this topic.)
Oh, yes. You are certainly in college. Please do yourself a favor. Never us the phrase "I feel" ever again.
. I don't know why college students did this but when I debated those who used the phrase "I feel" I tore them apart. "I feel" means that your unsure but are still afraid to be wrong. Its a beta characteristic. people don't want to know how you feel, they want to know what you know. Remember that. If both sides make valid points; note it in your paper, and explain which you believe more valid and why.
And I know you aren't trying to sway me one way or the other. I was just giving you fodder that you need to take into consideration while writing the paper.
As to the California farmers, they can apply for temporary work visas just like anyone else. And immigrants without permanent residency or citizenship status are exempt from payroll tax as my brothers wife was.
I know a lot about this subject because I have a very diverse family. We have brought family members to the United States from South East Asia. We are among those waiting 20-30 years to see our loved ones (Brothers and Sisters). We are the ones paying over $3,000 in immigration fees to get our wives into this country (3 Year Wait). (The same amount for our mother). We are the ones who sign affidavits of support whereas we assume all financial burdens of our family so they do not become a burden to the taxpayer. Imagine our "feelings" when people cheat the system and take resources away from USCIS making it more expensive for those of us who pay to file the paperwork (If their income they will get their fee waived. The immigration section of USCIS isn't taxpayer funded. Its funded by immigration fees. So legal petitioners will end up paying the immigration cost of illegals). Imagine our "feelings" when our family members will be near retirement age before we can enjoy them here in the US while illegals get a free pass. Imagine our "feelings" when our family members get treated like second class immigrants as compared to those who broke the law.
Personally I would rather they Amend the U.S. Constitution and stop birth right citizenship for those who enter here illegally. Then secure the border. Once they prove they are competent in securing the border they should grant amnesty to all here illegally without opportunity for citizenship or taxpayer funded benefits. If they whine about equal protection under the law then we should ask "where was that same equal protection for those who came here legally?"
I have little sympathy for those who come to this country with the excuse of fleeing violence and poverty. Most of the world is violent. Most of the world is in poverty. vilence and poverty has been the natural state of mankind for his entire existence. Indeed, much of my family lives in poverty overseas in dangerous flammable slums with no sewage. They risk robbery every time they go out. Women often sell themselves into prostitution with the permission of their husbands because they have no way to eat. They don't share a boarder with the US so they have no place to run. If you're lucky enough to have a house, its one family per room. Naked children whose parent cannot afford cloths roam the streets. There is the constant smell of urine and feces in the air because the homeless have no place to use the bathroom and there is no drainage. There are water pumps in the streets where people shower daily in public. Children have black teeth because they cant afford dental hygiene. If you want to see a doctor you go to the pharmacy. If you are visiting from the US child beggars follow you wherever you go. There are armed security guards in front of every shop. If you have electricity you're stealing it. Electricity theft is so rampant that the government subsidizes the industry because electric prices there exceed the prices here (Chances are if you pay for electric you have at least 10 people robbing you). So should we import all of these people too? If so, why not every impoverished person in the world? If we were to do that in the US then we would be a third world country, and then where would they run to?
The miracle that is the United States, something my family believes in, is that the US is a place that obeys the rule of law. Its where a people carved themselves out of the wilderness a system where all rights are respected. No, it isn't perfect, but its more perfect than what can be found anywhere else. The people of the United States fostered a culture of rule of law and individual rights/liberties. Instead of doing that for their countries, illegals prefer to set up shop in ours. They're culture could not produce a similar outcome so instead of learning from their failures and changing the culture they have the audacity to come to the US and demand we adhere to their cultural. Its wrong on every degree and unfair to those who come here legally.
So why did Obama grant illegals amnesty? Because their culture is more prone to leftist thinking, and ergo, are more likely to vote accordingly. They do not only want to come here to work, but they want to take advantage of our social welfare system as well (Think financially dependent people who will vote for a more expansive welfare state). They believe they are entitled to the American way of life. They did not ask to come here as some of my family did, but they believe they are entitled to it. Were talking about a cultural transformation of the US electorate. Indeed, with a pathway to citizenship and voting rights Texas would likely turn blue overnight. That's what Obamas after.
