Should anti-vaxers be denied ICU treatment for COVID?

[Rigby5]

Since the mRNA injections do not cause immunity but instead only temporarily stimulate some antibody production, it is those who are "vaccinated" who are entirely at fault for the covid pandemic not ending.
Normally enough people would quickly get infected, recover, and have immunity that would end the whole epidemic through herd immunity.

But when people take these mRNA injections to boost antibody activity, they prevent themselves from getting recovery immunity, and when the extra antibodies wear off in less than 6 months, they revert back to being good hosts for the epidemic, and prevent it from ever ending by running out of hosts.
It is those overly frightened people trying to hide behind a fake vaccine who are preventing the epidemic from ending.
It is all these ignorant and insanely panicked people using the fake vaccines, who should be denied medical access, since they are keeping the epidemic alive.

 

[boedicca]

Hospitals and staff are overworked during this pandemic.
Urgent care resources should be dedicated (prioritized) to innocent or responsible people who take precautions.
If 95% of COVID hospitalizations are patients who refused to get related vaccines, then they should PAY for their freedom to be stupid.

I believe anti-vaxers should be DENIED hospital beds in the ICU unless they have a medically valid excuse.
Do you agree? If not, why not?

Now do drug users, fat-fat-fatty Type 2 diabetics, extreme sports athletes, car drivers, people who cross the street while looking at their phones, cancer patients...

 

[boedicca]

The oath is ideal. We live in a pandemic world where hospital care is EXPENSIVE in time and money, and may not be able to service everyone who needs urgent care of all sorts.
Therefore, in this non-ideal world, we need to be PRACTICAL.

Practical is just a code word for mass murder.

 

[boedicca]

False narrative. CDC approved vaccines are researched for POSITIVE medical treatment, and if they have problems, THEN they should be treated.
If you choose NOT to follow medically approved treatment, then you should go to the end of the line, or be serviced by your own family.

Then why does the gubmint want to hide the test results for 75 years?

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

Practical is just a code word for mass murder.

Yes, when the indocrintation took firm hold and they started to make it clear that they consider us less than human, deserving of none of the rights that they reserve for themselves, was the moment they declared war.

Bring it.

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

False narrative. CDC approved vaccines are researched for POSITIVE medical treatment, and if they have problems, THEN they should be treated.
If you choose NOT to follow medically approved treatment, then you should go to the end of the line, or be serviced by your own family.

Name some of the ingredients in those "vaccines", since you seem to want us to believe that you know so much about them.

 

[boedicca]

Yes, when the indocrintation took firm hold and they started to make it clear that they consider us less than human, deserving of none of the rights that they reserve for themselves, was the moment they declared war.

Yep. Note the shift in the narrative: the unvaxxed are non-citizens, racist & misogynist lesser humans. It's not much of a step to gulags and concentration camps from here, as we are already seeing in Australia.

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

Yep. Note the shift in the narrative: the unvaxxes are non-citizens, racist & misogynist lesser humans. It's not much of a step to gulangs and concentration camps from here, as we are already seeing in Australia.

Has a familiar ring.

 

[BrunoGenovese]

Freedom and responsibility for your choices go hand in hand. Also, it is not freedom when your choices impose consequences on others, the consequences of your choices should affect you.

Based on those concepts I believe the following is fair:

- People should be free to refuse vaccination.

- Most businesses and organizations should be free to choose their approach towards vaccination requirements without anyone imposing a choice on them, provided that they clearly post at the entrance what their policy is. So, a business should be able to choose whether all employees and customers must be vaccinated (no shirt, no shoes, no vax, no service), or if vaccination is not required (all are welcome, come as you are), that way people will choose to frequent businesses that match their own preferences. Offer and demand should determine which ones prosper and which ones go under. And exception should apply for large-enough organizations and businesses that offer critical services like banks, hospitals, schools, etc... where they should be required to serve both vaxed and unvaxed... separately (although not necessarily at all locations so long as they are reachable) and employees should be free to choose in which area they serve (so, unvaxed employees would not be forced to get vaccinated but they would need to work in the areas that served the unvaxed).

- On the core topic of the thread, hospitals should not refuse service to those that choose to be unvaxed. As mentioned above there will need to be separate areas/facilities to service the unvaxed. At the same time, no medical employee should be *forced* to serve the unvaxed, it must be a voluntary choice to work in that area.

- The cost of the care for those that refuse the vaccine should not be forced on the vaccinated. Clearly their choice comes with an additional cost. That cost must be theirs, possibly in the form of higher insurance premiums for those that choose to refuse vaccination, to cover the increased cost of their choice. Freedom to choose, fully bearing the consequences of the choice and not imposing consequences for your choice on others. This is no different from a life insurance company refusing payment to someone who commits suicide... as paying would increase premiums for everyone, it is exactly the same principle.

- Finally, those that *cannot* be vaccinated due to medical reasons should NOT bear any additional cost or inconvenience, as they did not *choose* anything.

NOTE: Before anyobody starts throwing labels at me from one or the other side of the aisle... I am neither a liberal nor a conservative. I am fiercely independent. I believe in rational thought and ethics, not in following anyone blindly. Throughout my lifetime I voted roughly equally for both parties, depending on their candidates and their positions at the particular moment in time.

 

[ViewFromAbove]

I have no sympathy for hospitals that are shorthanded and overwhelmed. They fired employees that refused the vax. They sent out thousands of home covid tests flooding the area with positive covid tests. Now hundreds of not sick people are trying to get into hospitals.

You are correct. Hospitals are overwhelmed and shorthanded. I hope you and I do not need to be hospitalized anytime soon.
Since the unvaxed make up most of those hospitalized due to COVID, it makes sense that they should be admitted ONLY if there's availability AFTER the vaccinated people are taken care of first.

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

You are correct. Hospitals are overwhelmed and shorthanded. I hope you and I do not need to be hospitalized anytime soon.
Since the unvaxed make up most of those hospitalized due to COVID, it makes sense that they should be admitted ONLY if there's availability AFTER the vaccinated people are taken care of first.

Don't you just hate those damned anti-vaxxers? Don't you just want to wipe them off the face of the earth? How would you do it if you could?

 

[ViewFromAbove]

Freedom and responsibility for your choices go hand in hand. Also, it is not freedom when your choices impose consequences on others, the consequences of your choices should affect you.

Based on those concepts I believe the following is fair:

- People should be free to refuse vaccination.

- Most businesses and organizations should be free to choose their approach towards vaccination requirements without anyone imposing a choice on them, provided that they clearly post at the entrance what their policy is. So, a business should be able to choose whether all employees and customers must be vaccinated (no shirt, no shoes, no vax, no service), or if vaccination is not required (all are welcome, come as you are), that way people will choose to frequent businesses that match their own preferences. Offer and demand should determine which ones prosper and which ones go under. And exception should apply for large-enough organizations and businesses that offer critical services like banks, hospitals, schools, etc... where they should be required to serve both vaxed and unvaxed... separately (although not necessarily at all locations so long as they are reachable) and employees should be free to choose in which area they serve (so, unvaxed employees would not be forced to get vaccinated but they would need to work in the areas that served the unvaxed).

- On the core topic of the thread, hospitals should not refuse service to those that choose to be unvaxed. As mentioned above there will need to be separate areas/facilities to service the unvaxed. At the same time, no medical employee should be *forced* to serve the unvaxed, it must be a voluntary choice to work in that area.

- The cost of the care for those that refuse the vaccine should not be forced on the vaccinated. Clearly their choice comes with an additional cost. That cost must be theirs, possibly in the form of higher insurance premiums for those that choose to refuse vaccination, to cover the increased cost of their choice. Freedom to choose, fully bearing the consequences of the choice and not imposing consequences for your choice on others. This is no different from a life insurance company refusing payment to someone who commits suicide... as paying would increase premiums for everyone, it is exactly the same principle.

- Finally, those that *cannot* be vaccinated due to medical reasons should NOT bear any additional cost or inconvenience, as they did not *choose* anything.

NOTE: Before anyobody starts throwing labels at me from one or the other side of the aisle... I am neither a liberal nor a conservative. I am fiercely independent. I believe in rational thought and ethics, not in following anyone blindly. Throughout my lifetime I voted roughly equally for both parties, depending on their candidates and their positions at the particular moment in time.

I agree with your position on freedom and responsibility and bearing related costs. If the unvaxed docs and nurses want to treat the unvaxed patients, then that is ok with me too, IF there are hospital resources available for all those unvaxed patients.

 

[ViewFromAbove]

Do we deny emergency care to people who were at fault in car accidents. Do we deny emergency care to people who overdose on drugs or alcohol. Do we deny emergency healthcare to a person who suffered a heart attack from smoking all their life. The answer is No. Anyone who would deny someone treatment based on their refusal to take a certain injection is a very small pitiful person. They need some serious help.

Do we deny a heart transplant to a person who is much more sick than another one in need (unless it's a pig's heart)? Supply/Demand is REALITY, and if there is a shortage of ICU beds, then the "demand" from responsible people (vaxed) should be a factor for assigning LIMITED resources.

 

[ViewFromAbove]

So...a cop gets hurt on the job. No help for him, right?
Someone in a marathon falls and breaks a leg. Nope. No help for them either.
One of your kids slips on the slide, breaks his arm. Well, he shouldn't have been on that slide, right? No help for him either.

Does this compute to that pointy little head of yours?

Your pointy brain did not notice that I am talking about denying unvaxed people ICU beds if they are hospitalized due to a COVID infection.

 

[eagle1462010]

Freedom and responsibility for your choices go hand in hand. Also, it is not freedom when your choices impose consequences on others, the consequences of your choices should affect you.

Based on those concepts I believe the following is fair:

- People should be free to refuse vaccination.

- Most businesses and organizations should be free to choose their approach towards vaccination requirements without anyone imposing a choice on them, provided that they clearly post at the entrance what their policy is. So, a business should be able to choose whether all employees and customers must be vaccinated (no shirt, no shoes, no vax, no service), or if vaccination is not required (all are welcome, come as you are), that way people will choose to frequent businesses that match their own preferences. Offer and demand should determine which ones prosper and which ones go under. And exception should apply for large-enough organizations and businesses that offer critical services like banks, hospitals, schools, etc... where they should be required to serve both vaxed and unvaxed... separately (although not necessarily at all locations so long as they are reachable) and employees should be free to choose in which area they serve (so, unvaxed employees would not be forced to get vaccinated but they would need to work in the areas that served the unvaxed).

- On the core topic of the thread, hospitals should not refuse service to those that choose to be unvaxed. As mentioned above there will need to be separate areas/facilities to service the unvaxed. At the same time, no medical employee should be *forced* to serve the unvaxed, it must be a voluntary choice to work in that area.

- The cost of the care for those that refuse the vaccine should not be forced on the vaccinated. Clearly their choice comes with an additional cost. That cost must be theirs, possibly in the form of higher insurance premiums for those that choose to refuse vaccination, to cover the increased cost of their choice. Freedom to choose, fully bearing the consequences of the choice and not imposing consequences for your choice on others. This is no different from a life insurance company refusing payment to someone who commits suicide... as paying would increase premiums for everyone, it is exactly the same principle.

- Finally, those that *cannot* be vaccinated due to medical reasons should NOT bear any additional cost or inconvenience, as they did not *choose* anything.

NOTE: Before anyobody starts throwing labels at me from one or the other side of the aisle... I am neither a liberal nor a conservative. I am fiercely independent. I believe in rational thought and ethics, not in following anyone blindly. Throughout my lifetime I voted roughly equally for both parties, depending on their candidates and their positions at the particular moment in time.

A lot of long sentences saying you are a Fascist and we will punish you if you don't OBEY us. Even when the vaccines don't work.............blow me Fascist. Better idea......half the country to us and the other half to you fucks and we go our separate ways..............

 

[eagle1462010]

Your pointy brain did not notice that I am talking about denying unvaxed people ICU beds if they are hospitalized due to a COVID infection.

Aka you are a Fascist prick pushing the current narrative that those refusing to get the jabs....jabs....jabs...........that don't work are the DEVIL.

 

[ViewFromAbove]

Let's do a little health assessment shall we? You got maybe two or three shots. Oh, goody for you. How often do you exercise? What's your BMI? What's your diet like, do you smoke or drink to excess?

Realize that it's not as binary as you SIMPLE THINKERS would make it out to be. In fact, you are much better off being a fit and healthy unvaccinated person than you are being double vaccinated, overweight, high blood pressure, diabetes 65 yo who smokes, eats like crap and never exercises.

BUT

You won't read ME saying deny these fat lazy people any healthcare, because it's their fault.

You know why I'm not saying that?

Because I am NOT A GHOUL

You simple thinkers are ignoring the fact that many hospitals are overwhelmed! Can't treat everyone who goes there. Gotta choose.

 

[eagle1462010]

You simple thinkers are ignoring the fact that many hospitals are overwhelmed! Can't treat everyone who goes there. Gotta choose.

BS..............stop going their for the freaking sniffles you loser.

 

[ViewFromAbove]

It's quite an interesting idea --- it would have to be immediately generalized to all medical conditions that are caused or worsened by the unhealthful behavior of the sufferer.

So obese people would never be treated for anything in the hospital: if you aren't thin, you don't get in the emergency room.
So drug abusers would never be resuscitated with naloxone.
So diabetics not correctly maintaining their blood sugar would be refused treatment.
Anyone who comes in drunk and injured, right back outside they go.

It could quickly be weaponized to scare the population into other conformity besides getting shots of "vaccine." Anyone who leaves home during lockdowns and gets sick or injured, no treatment for you!
Anyone who gets sick and is known not to wear a mask at all times, no treatment!
However many boosters get promoted to raise the profits of the pharmaceutical industry, everyone has to take them all, and if you can't prove you've had all fourteen, too bad for you if you're in a car wreck!

This idea could quickly be used to punish and stamp out all kinds of behaviors the government decides: pregnant women who don't have husbands, you're on your own, lady. Children who don't have a record of all 37 shots they are "supposed" to have, too bad you fell out of a tree, kid.

Hey, this could really work to insist on total compliance with all government regulations. Anyone else have examples?

You sound like an extremist.
If treatment resources are limited, decisions need to be made.
If there's a healthy heart available for transplant, would you put it into a responsible person who can contribute to society, or give it to a drug addict?

 

[ViewFromAbove]

BS..............stop going their for the freaking sniffles you loser.

I feel sorry for your thinking capacity. Your brain was arrested by your irrational emotions.