Settlements

[Coyote]

We are not discussing Israeli citizens. We are discussing Arab Palestinian citizens of "Palestine" who have permanent resident status in Jerusalem.

I wanted to be clear on that because "Arabs" is a very broad term. That's why I refer to them as Palestinians - a specific group.

 

[flacaltenn]

A group of Jewish settlers take over some territory, build a quasi legal outpost ...

Sure. But how is that different from a group of Arab settlers who take over some territory and build an outpost?

Are those "illegal settlements"?

Yes they are.

How many MORE years should that acquired land be put off limits to development? It's been 50 years now. Jordan relinquished any claim or control. And there is no one to negotiate with. Time goes on. There is no leadership or diplomacy from the Pali side. Israel can not just vacate land to people who can't agree on representation. Or choose Islamic radicals as the leadership.

Within a couple weeks of vacating the West Bank area -- the entire area would be a 2nd Syria. With proxy armies fighting for control. It's a mere SNACK for ISIS or Hamas or Hesbollah to snatch it. Every city from Jenin to Hebron would look like Raqqua or Aleppo within a couple months. That's the reality of the situation.

ONLY condition for partitioning it at all --- has ALWAYS been conditional to having a proto govt established to run it and secure it by the Palestinians themselves.

We gonna sit this out for ANOTHER 50 years with NOBODY developing that land?

 

[P F Tinmore]

A group of Jewish settlers take over some territory, build a quasi legal outpost ...

Sure. But how is that different from a group of Arab settlers who take over some territory and build an outpost?

Are those "illegal settlements"?

Yes they are.

How many MORE years should that acquired land be put off limits to development? It's been 50 years now. Jordan relinquished any claim or control. And there is no one to negotiate with. Time goes on. There is no leadership or diplomacy from the Pali side. Israel can not just vacate land to people who can't agree on representation. Or choose Islamic radicals as the leadership.

Within a couple weeks of vacating the West Bank area -- the entire area would be a 2nd Syria. With proxy armies fighting for control. It's a mere SNACK for ISIS or Hamas or Hesbollah to snatch it. Every city from Jenin to Hebron would look like Raqqua or Aleppo within a couple months. That's the reality of the situation.

ONLY condition for partitioning it at all --- has ALWAYS been conditional to having a proto govt established to run it and secure it by the Palestinians themselves.

We gonna sit this out for ANOTHER 50 years with NOBODY developing that land?

Oh jeese, a slime the Palestinians post.

 

[flacaltenn]

A group of Jewish settlers take over some territory, build a quasi legal outpost ...

Sure. But how is that different from a group of Arab settlers who take over some territory and build an outpost?

Are those "illegal settlements"?

Yes they are.

How many MORE years should that acquired land be put off limits to development? It's been 50 years now. Jordan relinquished any claim or control. And there is no one to negotiate with. Time goes on. There is no leadership or diplomacy from the Pali side. Israel can not just vacate land to people who can't agree on representation. Or choose Islamic radicals as the leadership.

Within a couple weeks of vacating the West Bank area -- the entire area would be a 2nd Syria. With proxy armies fighting for control. It's a mere SNACK for ISIS or Hamas or Hesbollah to snatch it. Every city from Jenin to Hebron would look like Raqqua or Aleppo within a couple months. That's the reality of the situation.

ONLY condition for partitioning it at all --- has ALWAYS been conditional to having a proto govt established to run it and secure it by the Palestinians themselves.

We gonna sit this out for ANOTHER 50 years with NOBODY developing that land?

Oh jeese, a slime the Palestinians post.

If that's all ya got out of it -- you're not thinking about creating a nation for Palestine. Not at all.

 

[P F Tinmore]

A group of Jewish settlers take over some territory, build a quasi legal outpost ...

Sure. But how is that different from a group of Arab settlers who take over some territory and build an outpost?

Are those "illegal settlements"?

Yes they are.

How many MORE years should that acquired land be put off limits to development? It's been 50 years now. Jordan relinquished any claim or control. And there is no one to negotiate with. Time goes on. There is no leadership or diplomacy from the Pali side. Israel can not just vacate land to people who can't agree on representation. Or choose Islamic radicals as the leadership.

Within a couple weeks of vacating the West Bank area -- the entire area would be a 2nd Syria. With proxy armies fighting for control. It's a mere SNACK for ISIS or Hamas or Hesbollah to snatch it. Every city from Jenin to Hebron would look like Raqqua or Aleppo within a couple months. That's the reality of the situation.

ONLY condition for partitioning it at all --- has ALWAYS been conditional to having a proto govt established to run it and secure it by the Palestinians themselves.

We gonna sit this out for ANOTHER 50 years with NOBODY developing that land?

Oh jeese, a slime the Palestinians post.

If that's all ya got out of it -- you're not thinking about creating a nation for Palestine. Not at all.

That can't happen under occupation. Everything they do gets bombed or bulldozed.

 

[Coyote]

A group of Jewish settlers take over some territory, build a quasi legal outpost ...

Sure. But how is that different from a group of Arab settlers who take over some territory and build an outpost?

Are those "illegal settlements"?

Yes they are.

How many MORE years should that acquired land be put off limits to development? It's been 50 years now. Jordan relinquished any claim or control. And there is no one to negotiate with. Time goes on. There is no leadership or diplomacy from the Pali side. Israel can not just vacate land to people who can't agree on representation. Or choose Islamic radicals as the leadership.

Within a couple weeks of vacating the West Bank area -- the entire area would be a 2nd Syria. With proxy armies fighting for control. It's a mere SNACK for ISIS or Hamas or Hesbollah to snatch it. Every city from Jenin to Hebron would look like Raqqua or Aleppo within a couple months. That's the reality of the situation.

ONLY condition for partitioning it at all --- has ALWAYS been conditional to having a proto govt established to run it and secure it by the Palestinians themselves.

We gonna sit this out for ANOTHER 50 years with NOBODY developing that land?

They could give some of it back to the original inhabitants...the ones who lost it through absentee landowner laws.

They damn the Palestinians for unilateral actions and "obstacles to peace" while allowing the Israeli's to engage in same?

 

[flacaltenn]

A group of Jewish settlers take over some territory, build a quasi legal outpost ...

Sure. But how is that different from a group of Arab settlers who take over some territory and build an outpost?

Are those "illegal settlements"?

Yes they are.

How many MORE years should that acquired land be put off limits to development? It's been 50 years now. Jordan relinquished any claim or control. And there is no one to negotiate with. Time goes on. There is no leadership or diplomacy from the Pali side. Israel can not just vacate land to people who can't agree on representation. Or choose Islamic radicals as the leadership.

Within a couple weeks of vacating the West Bank area -- the entire area would be a 2nd Syria. With proxy armies fighting for control. It's a mere SNACK for ISIS or Hamas or Hesbollah to snatch it. Every city from Jenin to Hebron would look like Raqqua or Aleppo within a couple months. That's the reality of the situation.

ONLY condition for partitioning it at all --- has ALWAYS been conditional to having a proto govt established to run it and secure it by the Palestinians themselves.

We gonna sit this out for ANOTHER 50 years with NOBODY developing that land?

They could give some of it back to the original inhabitants...the ones who lost it through absentee landowner laws.

They damn the Palestinians for unilateral actions and "obstacles to peace" while allowing the Israeli's to engage in same?

I'm sure some of it SHOULD go back. But remember -- it's a matter of the time frame. It's been 50 years already. And that in some cases that is more than "absentee" enough. Can't sit in Limbo in the middle of thriving progress for another 50. Got to light a fire under some asses to have a sense of urgency to settle this. In a way that doesn't just "jack" everything from the Palestinians.

 

[Coyote]

A group of Jewish settlers take over some territory, build a quasi legal outpost ...

Sure. But how is that different from a group of Arab settlers who take over some territory and build an outpost?

Are those "illegal settlements"?

Yes they are.

How many MORE years should that acquired land be put off limits to development? It's been 50 years now. Jordan relinquished any claim or control. And there is no one to negotiate with. Time goes on. There is no leadership or diplomacy from the Pali side. Israel can not just vacate land to people who can't agree on representation. Or choose Islamic radicals as the leadership.

Within a couple weeks of vacating the West Bank area -- the entire area would be a 2nd Syria. With proxy armies fighting for control. It's a mere SNACK for ISIS or Hamas or Hesbollah to snatch it. Every city from Jenin to Hebron would look like Raqqua or Aleppo within a couple months. That's the reality of the situation.

ONLY condition for partitioning it at all --- has ALWAYS been conditional to having a proto govt established to run it and secure it by the Palestinians themselves.

We gonna sit this out for ANOTHER 50 years with NOBODY developing that land?

They could give some of it back to the original inhabitants...the ones who lost it through absentee landowner laws.

They damn the Palestinians for unilateral actions and "obstacles to peace" while allowing the Israeli's to engage in same?

I'm sure some of it SHOULD go back. But remember -- it's a matter of the time frame. It's been 50 years already. And that in some cases that is more than "absentee" enough. Can't sit in Limbo in the middle of thriving progress for another 50. Got to light a fire under some asses to have a sense of urgency to settle this. In a way that doesn't just "jack" everything from the Palestinians.

hmm ok...that's something to think about

 

[flacaltenn]

Sure. But how is that different from a group of Arab settlers who take over some territory and build an outpost?

Are those "illegal settlements"?

Yes they are.

How many MORE years should that acquired land be put off limits to development? It's been 50 years now. Jordan relinquished any claim or control. And there is no one to negotiate with. Time goes on. There is no leadership or diplomacy from the Pali side. Israel can not just vacate land to people who can't agree on representation. Or choose Islamic radicals as the leadership.

Within a couple weeks of vacating the West Bank area -- the entire area would be a 2nd Syria. With proxy armies fighting for control. It's a mere SNACK for ISIS or Hamas or Hesbollah to snatch it. Every city from Jenin to Hebron would look like Raqqua or Aleppo within a couple months. That's the reality of the situation.

ONLY condition for partitioning it at all --- has ALWAYS been conditional to having a proto govt established to run it and secure it by the Palestinians themselves.

We gonna sit this out for ANOTHER 50 years with NOBODY developing that land?

They could give some of it back to the original inhabitants...the ones who lost it through absentee landowner laws.

They damn the Palestinians for unilateral actions and "obstacles to peace" while allowing the Israeli's to engage in same?

I'm sure some of it SHOULD go back. But remember -- it's a matter of the time frame. It's been 50 years already. And that in some cases that is more than "absentee" enough. Can't sit in Limbo in the middle of thriving progress for another 50. Got to light a fire under some asses to have a sense of urgency to settle this. In a way that doesn't just "jack" everything from the Palestinians.

hmm ok...that's something to think about

Israel HAS pulled Jewish settlers out by force MANY TIMES.. But not so much since the Gaza debacle. And I don't blame them. They were stupid for assuming the PA would be in control of Gaza. And that's the RISK now and in the future. A full-out Arab civil war for control of ANY surrendered "occupied" land. That's what is holding up the process. Palestinian refusal to UNITE and appoint responsible leadership for negotiations.

 

[Coyote]

Yes they are.

How many MORE years should that acquired land be put off limits to development? It's been 50 years now. Jordan relinquished any claim or control. And there is no one to negotiate with. Time goes on. There is no leadership or diplomacy from the Pali side. Israel can not just vacate land to people who can't agree on representation. Or choose Islamic radicals as the leadership.

Within a couple weeks of vacating the West Bank area -- the entire area would be a 2nd Syria. With proxy armies fighting for control. It's a mere SNACK for ISIS or Hamas or Hesbollah to snatch it. Every city from Jenin to Hebron would look like Raqqua or Aleppo within a couple months. That's the reality of the situation.

ONLY condition for partitioning it at all --- has ALWAYS been conditional to having a proto govt established to run it and secure it by the Palestinians themselves.

We gonna sit this out for ANOTHER 50 years with NOBODY developing that land?

They could give some of it back to the original inhabitants...the ones who lost it through absentee landowner laws.

They damn the Palestinians for unilateral actions and "obstacles to peace" while allowing the Israeli's to engage in same?

I'm sure some of it SHOULD go back. But remember -- it's a matter of the time frame. It's been 50 years already. And that in some cases that is more than "absentee" enough. Can't sit in Limbo in the middle of thriving progress for another 50. Got to light a fire under some asses to have a sense of urgency to settle this. In a way that doesn't just "jack" everything from the Palestinians.

hmm ok...that's something to think about

Israel HAS pulled Jewish settlers out by force MANY TIMES.. But not so much since the Gaza debacle. And I don't blame them. They were stupid for assuming the PA would be in control of Gaza. And that's the RISK now and in the future. A full-out Arab civil war for control of ANY surrendered "occupied" land. That's what is holding up the process. Palestinian refusal to UNITE and appoint responsible leadership for negotiations.

I thought that was only in Gaza?

 

[Lastamender]

A group of Jewish settlers take over some territory, build a quasi legal outpost ...

Sure. But how is that different from a group of Arab settlers who take over some territory and build an outpost?

Are those "illegal settlements"?

Yes they are.

How many MORE years should that acquired land be put off limits to development? It's been 50 years now. Jordan relinquished any claim or control. And there is no one to negotiate with. Time goes on. There is no leadership or diplomacy from the Pali side. Israel can not just vacate land to people who can't agree on representation. Or choose Islamic radicals as the leadership.

Within a couple weeks of vacating the West Bank area -- the entire area would be a 2nd Syria. With proxy armies fighting for control. It's a mere SNACK for ISIS or Hamas or Hesbollah to snatch it. Every city from Jenin to Hebron would look like Raqqua or Aleppo within a couple months. That's the reality of the situation.

ONLY condition for partitioning it at all --- has ALWAYS been conditional to having a proto govt established to run it and secure it by the Palestinians themselves.

We gonna sit this out for ANOTHER 50 years with NOBODY developing that land?

They could give some of it back to the original inhabitants...the ones who lost it through absentee landowner laws.

They damn the Palestinians for unilateral actions and "obstacles to peace" while allowing the Israeli's to engage in same?

One more time, Islam is the obstacle to peace. And before you call me a hater, remember the hate in Islam written for all to see and very easy to understand. I myself have killed no one or preach that others should.

 

[Coyote]

A group of Jewish settlers take over some territory, build a quasi legal outpost ...

Sure. But how is that different from a group of Arab settlers who take over some territory and build an outpost?

Are those "illegal settlements"?

Yes they are.

How many MORE years should that acquired land be put off limits to development? It's been 50 years now. Jordan relinquished any claim or control. And there is no one to negotiate with. Time goes on. There is no leadership or diplomacy from the Pali side. Israel can not just vacate land to people who can't agree on representation. Or choose Islamic radicals as the leadership.

Within a couple weeks of vacating the West Bank area -- the entire area would be a 2nd Syria. With proxy armies fighting for control. It's a mere SNACK for ISIS or Hamas or Hesbollah to snatch it. Every city from Jenin to Hebron would look like Raqqua or Aleppo within a couple months. That's the reality of the situation.

ONLY condition for partitioning it at all --- has ALWAYS been conditional to having a proto govt established to run it and secure it by the Palestinians themselves.

We gonna sit this out for ANOTHER 50 years with NOBODY developing that land?

They could give some of it back to the original inhabitants...the ones who lost it through absentee landowner laws.

They damn the Palestinians for unilateral actions and "obstacles to peace" while allowing the Israeli's to engage in same?

One more time, Islam is the obstacle to peace. And before you call me a hater, remember the hate in Islam written for all to see and very easy to understand. I myself have killed no one or preach that others should.

One time and one time only. Discuss the topic. Review the OP. Take your generic Muslim hate to the same place others can take their generic Jew hate. Quit trying to derail threads.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

[
One more time, Islam is the obstacle to peace. And before you call me a hater, remember the hate in Islam written for all to see and very easy to understand. I myself have killed no one or preach that others should.

A supremacist doctrine that demands followers kill Jews until they hide behind rocks and trees is a detriment to peace?

Who woulda known?

 

[flacaltenn]

How many MORE years should that acquired land be put off limits to development? It's been 50 years now. Jordan relinquished any claim or control. And there is no one to negotiate with. Time goes on. There is no leadership or diplomacy from the Pali side. Israel can not just vacate land to people who can't agree on representation. Or choose Islamic radicals as the leadership.

Within a couple weeks of vacating the West Bank area -- the entire area would be a 2nd Syria. With proxy armies fighting for control. It's a mere SNACK for ISIS or Hamas or Hesbollah to snatch it. Every city from Jenin to Hebron would look like Raqqua or Aleppo within a couple months. That's the reality of the situation.

ONLY condition for partitioning it at all --- has ALWAYS been conditional to having a proto govt established to run it and secure it by the Palestinians themselves.

We gonna sit this out for ANOTHER 50 years with NOBODY developing that land?

They could give some of it back to the original inhabitants...the ones who lost it through absentee landowner laws.

They damn the Palestinians for unilateral actions and "obstacles to peace" while allowing the Israeli's to engage in same?

I'm sure some of it SHOULD go back. But remember -- it's a matter of the time frame. It's been 50 years already. And that in some cases that is more than "absentee" enough. Can't sit in Limbo in the middle of thriving progress for another 50. Got to light a fire under some asses to have a sense of urgency to settle this. In a way that doesn't just "jack" everything from the Palestinians.

hmm ok...that's something to think about

Israel HAS pulled Jewish settlers out by force MANY TIMES.. But not so much since the Gaza debacle. And I don't blame them. They were stupid for assuming the PA would be in control of Gaza. And that's the RISK now and in the future. A full-out Arab civil war for control of ANY surrendered "occupied" land. That's what is holding up the process. Palestinian refusal to UNITE and appoint responsible leadership for negotiations.

I thought that was only in Gaza?

Nope.. Probably a dozen times in the West Bank as well.. I found 3 in 10 minutes.

This time SINCE Trump took office.

Israeli police begin forced removal of Amona settlers in the West Bank

The Israeli Supreme Court ordered the demolition of the village of 40 families in 2014 because it was built on land privately owned by Palestinians from the neighboring villages.

ALso back in 2008..

Israeli Troops Evict Settlers in the West Bank

HEBRON, West Bank — Israeli troops forcibly evicted about 200 hard-line Jewish settlers from a contested building in this volatile biblical city on Thursday, the first serious clash in what seems to be a spiraling confrontation between the government and defiant settlers.

Believe this is a different event in 2016... Originally from Reuters.

Israeli troops evict Jewish settlers from West Bank homes | The Jim Bakker Show

JERUSALEM (Reuters) – Israeli troops forcibly removed Jewish settlers on Friday from homes in the occupied West Bank city of Hebron that they said they had bought from Palestinians, prompting some right-wing lawmakers to threaten to withhold support for the government.

Ministers and members of parliament from Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s Likud party decried Defence Minister Moshe Yaalon’s refusal to sign off on the settlers’ occupancy of the homes in a city where tensions between Israelis and Palestinians run high.

The settlers said they had bought the properties legally from Palestinian owners, but to live in the apartments they need Defence Ministry approval.

“In this case, not all the permits have been obtained. Once this happens, the settlers will be able to return, as has happened in past cases.”

Two right-wing lawmakers from Likud and another from the ultranationalist Jewish Home party said they would boycott parliamentary votes on Monday in protest at the move.

“It is forbidden to evict Jews from their homes and there will be consequences, we demand the prime minister’s involvement in the matter,” said Ayoub Kara, a Druze Arab Likud lawmaker.

 

[flacaltenn]

So -- don't claim it never happens. Because it has. Many times. Courts and Military have both ordered Jews to leave places they occupied illegally..

 

[abi]

We gonna sit this out for ANOTHER 50 years with NOBODY developing that land?

No, right of return, end of the occupation, free, fair, internationally monitored elections and implementation of the new government and let's move on with a just peace as a start point.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

So -- don't claim it never happens. Because it has. Many times. Courts and Military have both ordered Jews to leave places they occupied illegally..

.and for well over a thousand years.

Jews lived in Gaza well before Islam was invented.

 

[flacaltenn]

We gonna sit this out for ANOTHER 50 years with NOBODY developing that land?

No, right of return, end of the occupation, free, fair, internationally monitored elections and implementation of the new government and let's move on with a just peace as a start point.

And 2 months later, ISIS, HAMAS, And Hesbollah and 12 other radical factions will reduce EVERY city in the West Bank to Raqqua/Aleppo class carnage and rubble fighting for control. Maybe BEFORE any "free and fair elections". THAT PART needs to come first. Along with plans for internal and EXTERNAL security of that land. .

 

[abi]

And 2 months later, ISIS, HAMAS, And Hesbollah and 12 other radical factions will reduce EVERY city in the West Bank to Raqqua/Aleppo class carnage and rubble fighting for control. Maybe BEFORE any "free and fair elections". THAT PART needs to come first. Along with plans for internal and EXTERNAL security of that land. .

Only Hamas has anything to do with Palestine and are the democratically elected government of Gaza. Gaza is a small part of Palestine. Stay on topic.

The settlements are violating intentional law, the occupation is in human regardless.

Right of return, end of the occupation, free, fair, internationally monitored elections and implementation of the new government and let's move on with a just peace as a start point.

 

[Lastamender]

And 2 months later, ISIS, HAMAS, And Hesbollah and 12 other radical factions will reduce EVERY city in the West Bank to Raqqua/Aleppo class carnage and rubble fighting for control. Maybe BEFORE any "free and fair elections". THAT PART needs to come first. Along with plans for internal and EXTERNAL security of that land. .

Only Hamas has anything to do with Palestine and are the democratically elected government of Gaza. Gaza is a small part of Palestine. Stay on topic.

The settlements are violating intentional law, the occupation is in human regardless.

Right of return, end of the occupation, free, fair, internationally monitored elections and implementation of the new government and let's move on with a just peace as a start point.

International law is non-binding.