Settlements

[flacaltenn]

And 2 months later, ISIS, HAMAS, And Hesbollah and 12 other radical factions will reduce EVERY city in the West Bank to Raqqua/Aleppo class carnage and rubble fighting for control. Maybe BEFORE any "free and fair elections". THAT PART needs to come first. Along with plans for internal and EXTERNAL security of that land. .

Only Hamas has anything to do with Palestine and are the democratically elected government of Gaza. Gaza is a small part of Palestine. Stay on topic.

The settlements are violating intentional law, the occupation is in human regardless.

Right of return, end of the occupation, free, fair, internationally monitored elections and implementation of the new government and let's move on with a just peace as a start point.

You're completely demented. Egypt is fighting ISIS in the Sinai and Israel has repeatedly caught Iran trying to give Hesbollah advanced medium range missiles in Syria that could reach all of Israel and "free" Palestine. If Israel didn't run aerial sorties into Syria to take them out -- that war would have threatened to expand.

Without adequate EXISTING border control and defense and internal security, a "free Palestine" wouldn't last 2 months before 14 of the whackiest jihadi factions moved in to fight it out for control. Even a tryrant like Assad couldn't keep them out. There's an order to how a "free" Palestine comes into existence. And ending the occupation is NOT the 1st item on the agenda. Likely -- some form of "defense pact" would have to signed with Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon and maybe even Israel. To ASSURE a "free" Palestine remains free for more than a rabbits' gestational period..

You can keep up your marching protest and repeated idiotic street chanting all you like, but no one takes you seriously or believes you truly care about the Palestinian cause. Setting borders and determining settlements is only meaningful if there exists a viable Pali govt to implement and DEFEND those borders.

 

[Shusha]

That can't happen under occupation. Everything they do gets bombed or bulldozed.

Oh bullshit. No one is bombing or bulldozing anything in Areas A and B. Build a government and infrastructure in those areas. Then, when the government is strong enough to have a presence start eroding Area C and incorporating it -- specifically in areas which will create a contiguous Palestinian State.

 

[Shusha]

They could give some of it back to the original inhabitants...the ones who lost it through absentee landowner laws.

I have no problem with this. But FIRST the hostilities must end. You don't just invite hostile people who want to destroy your nation to come live under your sovereignty. Israel is having enough problems with the hostile population she decided NOT to ethnically cleanse without inviting MORE of them to live amongst the Israelis.

 

[flacaltenn]

That can't happen under occupation. Everything they do gets bombed or bulldozed.

Oh bullshit. No one is bombing or bulldozing anything in Areas A and B. Build a government and infrastructure in those areas. Then, when the government is strong enough to have a presence start eroding Area C and incorporating it -- specifically in areas which will create a contiguous Palestinian State.

Have you ever noticed on a map how many "illegal Jewish settlements" in the West Bank are ACTUALLY Israeli military outposts to connect and sustain the occupation? I've been looking at that. And I THINK it's 20% or more of the "Jewish settlements" on the map. Maybe Rylah or another Israeli knows how much of the settlement map is actually just military police infrastructure that would "go away" in an agreement.. Just find it interesting when you see a "colored map" of who lives where. Generally they don't MARK military police and security outposts.

 

[Shusha]

That can't happen under occupation. Everything they do gets bombed or bulldozed.

Oh bullshit. No one is bombing or bulldozing anything in Areas A and B. Build a government and infrastructure in those areas. Then, when the government is strong enough to have a presence start eroding Area C and incorporating it -- specifically in areas which will create a contiguous Palestinian State.

Have you ever noticed on a map how many "illegal Jewish settlements" in the West Bank are ACTUALLY Israeli military outposts to connect and sustain the occupation? I've been looking at that. And I THINK it's 20% or more of the "Jewish settlements" on the map. Maybe Rylah or another Israeli knows how much of the settlement map is actually just military police infrastructure that would "go away" in an agreement.. Just find it interesting when you see a "colored map" of who lives where. Generally they don't MARK military police and security outposts.

Yep. I have noticed. Security is STILL Israeli's number one concern. Its the thing that has be be addressed first and foremost. Once that security was assured, say, oh, I don't know, by a peace agreement, a sincere one... they will just fade away.

The Arab world is splitting. The Palestinians need to decide what half of that world they are going to side with. I fear they are making the wrong decision.

 

[Shusha]

We can't solve the problems of individual Arab Palestinians until we create safe, secure, stable governments for them to live under. That is the universal magic formula for thriving, successful human populations.

 

[Wyatt earp]

It doesn't say what he wants. Note, he disputed none of the facts.

The settlements and the brutality that goes along are expanding and give examples of what we haven’t yet seen from the Palestinian leadership.

Are they still rewarding terrorist acts?

Depends on whose name calling you prescribe to.

Israelis get college scholarships when they bomb the crap out of civilians in Gaza.

I was thinking of the fellows who slit the throats of the Fogelsville family right down to the children. You can legitimately argue that Israel’s actions in Gaza are defense against frequent rockets fired into civilian areas. You can also make the argument that it was disproportionate response But there is absolutely no way you can say that murdering children is anything but murder. So why do acts like that perpetrated on civilians get rewarded?

The Fogel family was a crime but I don't think it could be classified as terrorism.

The blockade on Gaza is a daily act of war against the Palestinians. Are they not allowed to respond by whatever meager means they have?

BTW, is it terrorism to send rockets into illegal settlements?

Killing a baby is not terror? What do you consider worse?

Killing a baby is not terror? What do you consider worse?


Giving it Obama care

What's with this logic so shooting rockets into illegal civilian settlement's is considered ok to you guys?

Crazy logic

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Settlements
※→ Lastamender, et al,

This requires some explanation...

And 2 months later, ISIS, HAMAS, And Hesbollah and 12 other radical factions will reduce EVERY city in the West Bank to Raqqua/Aleppo class carnage and rubble fighting for control. Maybe BEFORE any "free and fair elections". THAT PART needs to come first. Along with plans for internal and EXTERNAL security of that land. .

Only Hamas has anything to do with Palestine and are the democratically elected government of Gaza. Gaza is a small part of Palestine. Stay on topic.

The settlements are violating intentional law, the occupation is in human regardless.

Right of return, end of the occupation, free, fair, internationally monitored elections and implementation of the new government and let's move on with a just peace as a start point.

International law is non-binding.

(COMMENT)

Most of us, when using the term "international Law" tend to mean or encompass a variety of Sources that fall into to broad categories of:

※ Treaties/international agreements

※ Customary international law​

It is my understanding that Courts (including the US Supreme Court), when dealing in matters requiring a decision in accordance with (IAW) international law, (as opposed to domestic law) use this International Law disputes in applications that delve into between nation states. The two primary sources of international law are – treaties and custom:

• international conventions, whether general or particular, establishing rules expressly recognized by the contesting states;
• international custom, as evidence of a general practice accepted as law;
* the general principles of law recognized by civilized nations; ....
​

In our discussions we generally mean some sort of "binding instrument" such as a “charter,” “convention,”
“covenant,” “pact,” “protocol,” “statute,” and “treaty.” All of which are generally considered binding.

So you can see my confusion when you say: "International law is non-binding."

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[abi]

We can't solve the problems of individual Arab Palestinians until we create safe, secure, stable governments for them to live under. That is the universal magic formula for thriving, successful human populations.

Which is why right of return, ending the occupation and free, fair and internationally monitored elections all must happen.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

We can't solve the problems of individual Arab Palestinians until we create safe, secure, stable governments for them to live under. That is the universal magic formula for thriving, successful human populations.

Which is why right of return, ending the occupation and free, fair and internationally monitored elections all must happen.

1) There IS right of return--for Jews from Ethiopia, Russia, India, Yemen, etc.

2) When the occupation ended in Gaza, southern Lebanon, and Area A of the West Bank, things only got worse.

3) There is no such thing as free and fair elections in the Arab world.

 

[abi]

1) There IS right of return--for Jews from Ethiopia, Russia, India, Yemen, etc.

But the international right of the Palestinians to return has never been implemented. Thanks for proving my point.

Right of return as guaranteed by international law.

2) When the occupation ended in Gaza, southern Lebanon, and Area A of the West Bank, things only got worse.

Gaza has been bombed several times since 2005. Jerusalem and the West bank have been an ongoing land grab. Thanks for proving my point.

End the occupation.

3) There is no such thing as free and fair elections in the Arab world.

Whatever you say, but I was clear about an international team of observers from beginning to end.

 

[Shusha]

We can't solve the problems of individual Arab Palestinians until we create safe, secure, stable governments for them to live under. That is the universal magic formula for thriving, successful human populations.

Which is why right of return, ending the occupation and free, fair and internationally monitored elections all must happen.

Nope. Those are all de-stabilizing elements. The opposite of "what has to happen".

 

[abi]

Nope. Those are all de-stabilizing elements. The opposite of "what has to happen".

Only to a zionist. The rest of the world disagrees. Again, where, outside of an insane asylum is there a group of people more detached from reality than zionists?

 

[Shusha]

Nope. Those are all de-stabilizing elements. The opposite of "what has to happen".

Only to a zionist. The rest of the world disagrees. Again, where, outside of an insane asylum is there a group of people more detached from reality than zionists?

The last thing the world needs right now is the dissolution of Israel in the ME.

What the world and the Arab Palestinians need is the stabilizing influence of Jordan.

 

[abi]

The last thing the world needs right now is the dissolution of Israel in the ME.

Debatable, but i never said anything about that.

Again, where, outside of an insane asylum is there a group of people more detached from reality than zionists?

 

[Shusha]

The last thing the world needs right now is the dissolution of Israel in the ME.

Debatable, but i never said anything about that.

Again, where, outside of an insane asylum is there a group of people more detached from reality than zionists?

Uh huh. Sure. You repeatedly (ad nauseum) demand the end of the occupation but refuse to elaborate on what that means despite being asked by multiple people multiple times.

So, when you say, "end the occupation" what DO you mean?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

1) There IS right of return--for Jews from Ethiopia, Russia, India, Yemen, etc.

But the international right of the Palestinians to return has never been implemented. Thanks for proving my point.

Right of return as guaranteed by international law.

2) When the occupation ended in Gaza, southern Lebanon, and Area A of the West Bank, things only got worse.

Gaza has been bombed several times since 2005. Jerusalem and the West bank have been an ongoing land grab. Thanks for proving my point.

End the occupation.

3) There is no such thing as free and fair elections in the Arab world.

Whatever you say, but I was clear about an international team of observers from beginning to end.

But the international right of the Palestinians to return has never been implemented.

Only because there is no country of Palestine for them to "return" to.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The last thing the world needs right now is the dissolution of Israel in the ME.

Debatable, but i never said anything about that.

Again, where, outside of an insane asylum is there a group of people more detached from reality than zionists?

where, outside of an insane asylum is there a group of people more detached from reality than zionists?

Islam.

 

[flacaltenn]

We can't solve the problems of individual Arab Palestinians until we create safe, secure, stable governments for them to live under. That is the universal magic formula for thriving, successful human populations.

Which is why right of return, ending the occupation and free, fair and internationally monitored elections all must happen.

Repeating the same mantra 13 times a day is ALSO not "topical content". Especially when it's being spammed across multiple threads. Repetition to dodge questions and discussion can be deleted and/or warned.

 

[flacaltenn]

Nope. Those are all de-stabilizing elements. The opposite of "what has to happen".

Only to a zionist. The rest of the world disagrees. Again, where, outside of an insane asylum is there a group of people more detached from reality than zionists?

You never addressed the issue of having an established govt to provide internal and EXTERNAL border security. Free Palestine becomes an Islamic battleground without PRACTICAL considerations like that. Waste of time talking about drawing map lines and trading settlements if a LEADERSHIP and GOVERNMENT does not exist to negotiate the deals, settle the peace, and start VALUING Palestinian quality of life and freedom..