Separation of Temple and State

[Lipush]

All faiths should be allowed on to the Temple Mount, and if they want to pray, if it truly is all the same god. The muslims might want to protect the Al Aqsa mosque from damage by fixing the wall underneath it before a large quake causes it all to fall down. It should be safe for all visitors to enter and appreciate; the faith, the culture, the people, the fact that there is more similarity than difference between people if they give peace a chance to accept the fact.

I agree that all faiths should have acess.


Once we decide we want to rebuilt our Temple on the Temple Mount, we should have the ability to do so.

Thank you for your honesty.

Sure.

 

[Lipush]

Haaretz Article: Israel is a semi theocracy

"Let's admit that we live in a country with many religious and halakhic attributes. Let's remove the concocted secularist guise with which we have wrapped ourselves. Shocked by Neeman's remarks? They are not so far removed from the reality of our lives. Israel is not what you thought. It's definitely not what we try to present to ourselves and the rest of the world."

60% of the sane people use Haaretz as toilet paper

 

[Lipush]

They have more restrictive laws than the German Aryan laws.

You bonehead. Does it hurt your head to make such silly statements?

Since it is a fact, you are the knucklehead.

You're either very ignorant or just pure liar.

That's the only fact here, dude.

 

[marsnow]

Let's inform the uninformed. Can you show us where the "temple" has any effect in the Israeli system of government?

Israeli system of government - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Israeli system of government

The Israeli system of government is based on parliamentary democracy. The Prime Minister of Israel is the head of government and leader of a multi-party system. Executive power is exercised by the government. Legislative power is vested in the Knesset. The Judiciary is independent of the executive and the legislature. The political system of the State of Israel and its main principles are set out in 11 Basic Laws.

Marriage Information | Embassy of the United States

Civil Marriage:

Israeli law generally only permits religious leaders to perform marriage ceremonies and rarely permits civil marriages. Diplomatic officials from some countries are permitted to perform ceremonies in Israel. The United States is not one of those countries.

Mixed Marriages:

With very few exceptions, Israeli civil law does not permit marriages between Jews and non-Jews within the state of Israel. The Israeli government will recognize marriages performed between Israeli Jewish citizens and non-Jews that are performed outside of Israel. Israeli law does permit marriages in Israel between converts.

What's the problem?

Its your right to believe that makes sense. I believe in separation of temple and state and civil marriages with no restrictions. Jewish humans should have the right to marry whoever they want.

 

[Lipush]

I believe so too, but the Rabbanut is the one deciding that. While we may agree or disagree, I believe the Rabbanut should decide, since pass it to all sorts of agencies or institutions will create a mess. We've tried it once, it didn't work.

 

[Roudy]

Haaretz Article: Israel is a semi theocracy

"Let's admit that we live in a country with many religious and halakhic attributes. Let's remove the concocted secularist guise with which we have wrapped ourselves. Shocked by Neeman's remarks? They are not so far removed from the reality of our lives. Israel is not what you thought. It's definitely not what we try to present to ourselves and the rest of the world."

So the best you've got is an opinion piece from a leftist source, who by the way confirms Israel is a secular state but calls it a "guise"? Ha ha ha. Ok numbnuts.

 

[Roudy]

You bonehead. Does it hurt your head to make such silly statements?

Since it is a fact, you are the knucklehead.

You're either very ignorant or just pure liar.

That's the only fact here, dude.

He's both.

 

[Phoenall]

All faiths should be allowed on to the Temple Mount, and if they want to pray, if it truly is all the same god. The muslims might want to protect the Al Aqsa mosque from damage by fixing the wall underneath it before a large quake causes it all to fall down. It should be safe for all visitors to enter and appreciate; the faith, the culture, the people, the fact that there is more similarity than difference between people if they give peace a chance to accept the fact.

How many times in history have the two carbuncles been destroyed and abandoned by the muslims, only to be rebuilt many years later and given holy site status. This should show the muslims that their god is displeased with them and that they should leave the temple mount for good

 

[Phoenall]

Let's inform the uninformed. Can you show us where the "temple" has any effect in the Israeli system of government?

Israeli system of government - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Israeli system of government

The Israeli system of government is based on parliamentary democracy. The Prime Minister of Israel is the head of government and leader of a multi-party system. Executive power is exercised by the government. Legislative power is vested in the Knesset. The Judiciary is independent of the executive and the legislature. The political system of the State of Israel and its main principles are set out in 11 Basic Laws.

Marriage Information | Embassy of the United States

Civil Marriage:

Israeli law generally only permits religious leaders to perform marriage ceremonies and rarely permits civil marriages. Diplomatic officials from some countries are permitted to perform ceremonies in Israel. The United States is not one of those countries.

Mixed Marriages:

With very few exceptions, Israeli civil law does not permit marriages between Jews and non-Jews within the state of Israel. The Israeli government will recognize marriages performed between Israeli Jewish citizens and non-Jews that are performed outside of Israel. Israeli law does permit marriages in Israel between converts.

Where is the Temple mentioned ?

 

[Phoenall]

They have more restrictive laws than the German Aryan laws.

Is that why 20% of the Israeli citizens are non Jews, and have exactly the same legal rights as the Jews. Apart from they don't have to do national service and they can teach their children outside of an Israeli stat school.

 

[marsnow]

Let's inform the uninformed. Can you show us where the "temple" has any effect in the Israeli system of government?

Israeli system of government - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Israeli system of government

The Israeli system of government is based on parliamentary democracy. The Prime Minister of Israel is the head of government and leader of a multi-party system. Executive power is exercised by the government. Legislative power is vested in the Knesset. The Judiciary is independent of the executive and the legislature. The political system of the State of Israel and its main principles are set out in 11 Basic Laws.

Marriage Information | Embassy of the United States

Civil Marriage:

Israeli law generally only permits religious leaders to perform marriage ceremonies and rarely permits civil marriages. Diplomatic officials from some countries are permitted to perform ceremonies in Israel. The United States is not one of those countries.

Mixed Marriages:

With very few exceptions, Israeli civil law does not permit marriages between Jews and non-Jews within the state of Israel. The Israeli government will recognize marriages performed between Israeli Jewish citizens and non-Jews that are performed outside of Israel. Israeli law does permit marriages in Israel between converts.

Where is the Temple mentioned ?

Not sure this is a definitional issue or an actual challenge.

 

[Phoenall]

Required docs for Aliyah to Israel

Documents needed for Aliyah - Guided Aliyah from within Israel.

Proof of Judaism
Acceptable proof of Judaism is a letter from a recognized rabbi in North America or the UK, stating that you are Jewish and born to a Jewish mother.

This is required for all adults in the family making Aliyah.
The letter must have been written in the past year on official letterhead.
If you are Jewish through your father/grandfather, please provide a letter from a recognized rabbi in North America or the UK, who can confirm your Jewish lineage.
Israeli citizens may have additional options for the proof of Judaism requirement
Some other requirements of the letter are as follows:

The letter must be in English or Hebrew.
The letter must appear on official synagogue letterhead. It must state the name, location and telephone number of the congregation, and include your full legal name (as appears on your passport) and parents' names (and grandparents' names, where relevant).
The letter must bear the rabbi's signature, and the rabbi's name and title should appear on the letterhead.
If you converted to Judaism, you will be required to submit different documentation proving your completion of the conversion process. You will receive further instructions during the application process.

And you have a problem with that? These are people returning to the roots of their faith
that for many they have become far too distant from. It is a return to the people, the country and culture that they belong to.

Muslims that seek to go on a hajj to mecca also have to get documentation of their faith and identity from their mosque. Not just anyone that verbally claims to be a muslim can enter mecca. It is quite a process to apply and get all the documentation, visas, application to Saudi Arabia, items you will need, book a flight/travel through approved dealers, becoming familiar with the rituals and procedures as well as the group you will might living with while there.

So, Israel is just as theocratic as Saudi Arabia. OK, I agree.

So what about Palestine and its charter then that demands the wholesale murder of the Jews in Palestine as defined by their charter. Meaning that the muslims will once again carry out the wishes of the NAZIS and finish the final solution.

 

[Phoenall]

They have more restrictive laws than the German Aryan laws.

You bonehead. Does it hurt your head to make such silly statements?

Since it is a fact, you are the knucklehead.

You are a complete idiot as the Nazi Aryan laws are based on the pact of Omar and are totally Islamic. Just how stupid can one person be in regards to the third Reich and its basis for its laws.

 

[Phoenall]

Haaretz Article: Israel is a semi theocracy

"Let's admit that we live in a country with many religious and halakhic attributes. Let's remove the concocted secularist guise with which we have wrapped ourselves. Shocked by Neeman's remarks? They are not so far removed from the reality of our lives. Israel is not what you thought. It's definitely not what we try to present to ourselves and the rest of the world."

A 5 year old article is the best you can come up with, and one written by the most hated man in Israel

 

[Phoenall]

Marriage Information | Embassy of the United States

Civil Marriage:

Israeli law generally only permits religious leaders to perform marriage ceremonies and rarely permits civil marriages. Diplomatic officials from some countries are permitted to perform ceremonies in Israel. The United States is not one of those countries.

Mixed Marriages:

With very few exceptions, Israeli civil law does not permit marriages between Jews and non-Jews within the state of Israel. The Israeli government will recognize marriages performed between Israeli Jewish citizens and non-Jews that are performed outside of Israel. Israeli law does permit marriages in Israel between converts.

Where is the Temple mentioned ?

Not sure this is a definitional issue or an actual challenge.

BOTH now lets see you define your post proving that the law is based on the Tenple

 

[Lipush]

They have more restrictive laws than the German Aryan laws.

Is that why 20% of the Israeli citizens are non Jews, and have exactly the same legal rights as the Jews. Apart from they don't have to do national service and they can teach their children outside of an Israeli stat school.

He shoots everywhere hoping to score.

We can point out his errors and lies, but I don't really think he cares much.

 

[MHunterB]

Haaretz Article: Israel is a semi theocracy

"Let's admit that we live in a country with many religious and halakhic attributes. Let's remove the concocted secularist guise with which we have wrapped ourselves. Shocked by Neeman's remarks? They are not so far removed from the reality of our lives. Israel is not what you thought. It's definitely not what we try to present to ourselves and the rest of the world."

How sad: the poster seems unable to distinguish an OPINION piece from part of a textbook.

 

[marsnow]

Haaretz Article: Israel is a semi theocracy

"Let's admit that we live in a country with many religious and halakhic attributes. Let's remove the concocted secularist guise with which we have wrapped ourselves. Shocked by Neeman's remarks? They are not so far removed from the reality of our lives. Israel is not what you thought. It's definitely not what we try to present to ourselves and the rest of the world."

How sad: the poster seems unable to distinguish an OPINION piece from part of a textbook.

Um no. Since when are textbooks considered 100% accurate anyway. This is argument not history class. If forced to choose in a binary universe, Israel is a theocracy. Separation of temple and state are essential for moving forward imo.

Of course no one will like this source but here is a more recent article exploring this topic:

"As the winds of change blow across Iran, secular democrats in Israel have been losing ground to religious and right-wing extremists who feel comfortable openly attacking the United States, Israel’s strongest ally. In recent months, Israel’s defense minister, Moshe Yaalon, called Secretary of State John Kerry “obsessive and messianic,” while Naftali Bennett, Israel’s economy minister, labeled Mr. Kerry a “mouthpiece” for anti-Semitic elements attempting to boycott Israel." http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/12/opinion/sunday/are-iran-and-israel-trading-places.html?_r=0

 

[Roudy]

Haaretz Article: Israel is a semi theocracy

"Let's admit that we live in a country with many religious and halakhic attributes. Let's remove the concocted secularist guise with which we have wrapped ourselves. Shocked by Neeman's remarks? They are not so far removed from the reality of our lives. Israel is not what you thought. It's definitely not what we try to present to ourselves and the rest of the world."

How sad: the poster seems unable to distinguish an OPINION piece from part of a textbook.

Um no. Since when are textbooks considered 100% accurate anyway. This is argument not history class. If forced to choose in a binary universe, Israel is a theocracy. Separation of temple and state are essential for moving forward imo.

Of course no one will like this source but here is a more recent article exploring this topic:

"As the winds of change blow across Iran, secular democrats in Israel have been losing ground to religious and right-wing extremists who feel comfortable openly attacking the United States, Israel’s strongest ally. In recent months, Israel’s defense minister, Moshe Yaalon, called Secretary of State John Kerry “obsessive and messianic,” while Naftali Bennett, Israel’s economy minister, labeled Mr. Kerry a “mouthpiece” for anti-Semitic elements attempting to boycott Israel." http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/12/opinion/sunday/are-iran-and-israel-trading-places.html?_r=0

So all you have are opinions of morons like yourself, as opposed to official classifications.

That means if some dipshit writes an article stating that "USA is a fascist state" we'll all stick our fingers in the air and see which way the wind blows to determine if it's correct. Ha ha ha.

 

[marsnow]

How sad: the poster seems unable to distinguish an OPINION piece from part of a textbook.

Um no. Since when are textbooks considered 100% accurate anyway. This is argument not history class. If forced to choose in a binary universe, Israel is a theocracy. Separation of temple and state are essential for moving forward imo.

Of course no one will like this source but here is a more recent article exploring this topic:

"As the winds of change blow across Iran, secular democrats in Israel have been losing ground to religious and right-wing extremists who feel comfortable openly attacking the United States, Israel’s strongest ally. In recent months, Israel’s defense minister, Moshe Yaalon, called Secretary of State John Kerry “obsessive and messianic,” while Naftali Bennett, Israel’s economy minister, labeled Mr. Kerry a “mouthpiece” for anti-Semitic elements attempting to boycott Israel." http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/12/opinion/sunday/are-iran-and-israel-trading-places.html?_r=0

So all you have are opinions of morons like yourself, as opposed to official classifications.

That means if some dipshit writes an article stating that "USA is a fascist state" we'll all stick our fingers in the air and see which way the wind blows to determine if it's correct. Ha ha ha.

Brother, I don't want to fight you. I appreciate the machismo in a good Spartan like yourself, but really, imperviousness to ideas is not necessary.

I'll leave you with another article just published this week -- in foreign policy magazine edited by now clearly former Zionist Jewish American -- David Rothkopf. It is a series of letters between him and his former college roommate: Michael Oren, former American and ambassador to the US from Israel:

'A' Jewish State vs. 'The' Jewish State

"In this moment, the Rothkopf character comes into his own. He tells us what he really thinks and he’s the thoughtful and secure one, Oren is provincial. Zionism is “exactly the wrong” response to history, Rothkopf says, and delivers a speech about history that brings everyone to their feet:

History is the story of the human catastrophe that results when states promote religious ends or use religious criteria to guide their governance. As we have often seen, the embrace of religion into the identity of a nation, while being sold to the people as something unifying and elevating, is often something else. It is exclusionary. It is about finding a way to achieve cultural and ethnic "purity." It is an idea that should be more anathema to Jews, given our history, than to any other group. I find the response of Zionism to be exactly the wrong one. It suggests we have seen how others have abused religion by intermingling it with governance and national identity and the only protection is to do the same thing ourselves.

The best protection (as the United States has demonstrated) is to institutionalize the concept of tolerance and diversity and to work tirelessly to ensure that the powerful impulses to segregate and divide are quashed. It is not easy. But it has made the United States the most successful experiment in cultural diversity in history — though only after a series of horrific errors, including slavery and the genocide against Native Americans and the devaluing of the role of women, were ultimately remedied. We’re not there yet."

In other words. Let it go.

Regards,