Separation of Church and State?

[5stringJeff]

This really makes one wonder about the separation of church and state.


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Can 50 states be wrong?
America's founders did not intend for there to be a separation of God and state, as shown by the fact that all 50 states acknowledge God in their state constitutions:

Alabama 1901, Preamble. We the people of the State of Alabama, invoking the favor and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and
establish the following Constitution ...

Alaska 1956, Preamble. We, the people of Alaska,_grateful to God and to those who founded our nation and pioneered this great land ..

Arizona 1911, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Arizona, grateful to Almighty God for our liberties, do ordain this
Constitution...

Arkansas 1874, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Arkansas, grateful to Almighty God for the privilege of choosing our own form of government...

California 1879, Preamble. We, the People of the State of California, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom ...

Colorado 1876, Preamble. We, the people of Colorado, with profound reverence for the Supreme Ruler of Universe.

Connecticut 1818, Preamble. The People of Connecticut, acknowledging with gratitude the good Providence of God in permitting them to enjoy ..

Delaware 1897, Preamble. Through Divine Goodness all men have, by nature, the rights of worshipping and serving their Creator according to the dictates of their consciences ...

Florida 1885, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Florida, grateful to Almighty God for our constitutional liberty . establish this Constitution...

Georgia 1777, Preamble. We, the people of Georgia, relying upon protection and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and establish this Constitution...

Hawaii 1959, Preamble. We, the people of Hawaii, Grateful for Divine Guidance ... establish this Constitution.

Idaho 1889, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Idaho, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, to secure its blessings ...

Illinois 1870, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Illinois, grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy and looking to Him for a blessing on our endeavors.

Indiana 1851, Preamble. We, the People of the State of Indiana, grateful to Almighty God for the free exercise of the right to chose
our form of government.

Iowa 1857, Preamble. We, the People of the State of Iowa, grateful to the Supreme Being for the blessings hitherto enjoyed, and feeling our dependence on Him for a continuation of these blessings . establish this Constitution

Kansas 1859, Preamble. We, the people of Kansas, grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious privileges . establish this Constitution.

Kentucky 1891, Preamble. We, the people of the Commonwealth of grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberties...

Louisiana 1921, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Louisiana, grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberties we enjoy.

Maine 1820, Preamble. We the People of Maine .. acknowledging with grateful hearts the goodness of_the Sovereign Ruler of the Universe in affording us an opportunity ... and imploring His aid and direction.

Maryland 1776, Preamble. We, the people of the state of Maryland, grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious liberty..

Massachusetts 1780, Preamble. We...the people of Massachusetts, acknowledging with grateful hearts, the goodness of the Great Legislator of the Universe ... in the course of His Providence, an opportunity ..and devoutly imploring His direction ...

Michigan 1908, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Michigan, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of freedom ...
establish this Constitution

Minnesota, 1857, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Minnesota, grateful to God for our civil and religious liberty, and desiring to perpetuate its blessings

Mississippi 1890, Preamble. We, the people of Mississippi in convention assembled, grateful to Almighty God, and invoking His blessing on our work.

Missouri 1845, Preamble. We, the people of Missouri, with profound reverence for the Supreme Ruler of the Universe, and grateful for His goodness ... establish this Constitution ...

Montana 1889, Preamble. We, the people of Montana, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of liberty. establish this Constitution ...

Nebraska 1875, Preamble. We, the people, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom .. establish this Constitution .

Nevada 1864, Preamble. We the people of the State of Nevada, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom establish this Constitution ...

New Hampshire 1792, Part I. Art. I. Sec. V. Every individual has a
natural and unalienable right to worship God according to the dictates of his own conscience.

New Jersey 1844, Preamble. We, the people of the State of New Jersey, grateful to Almighty God for civil and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a blessing on our endeavors ..

New Mexico 1911, Preamble. We, the People of New Mexico, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of liberty .

New York 1846, Preamble. We, the people of the State of New York, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, in order to secure its blessings.

North Carolina 1868, Preamble. We the people of the State of North Carolina, grateful to Almighty God, the Sovereign Ruler of Nations, for our civil, political, and religious liberties, and acknowledging our dependence upon Him for the continuance of those ..

North Dakota 1889, Preamble. We, the people of North Dakota, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, do ordain...

Ohio 1852, Preamble. We the people of the state of Ohio, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, to secure its blessings and to promote our common ...

Oklahoma 1907, Preamble. Invoking the guidance of Almighty God, in order to secure and perpetuate the blessings of liberty ... establish this ..

Oregon 1857, Bill of Rights, Article I. Section 2. All men shall be secure in the Natural right, to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their consciences..

Pennsylvania 1776, Preamble. We, the people of Pennsylvania, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, and humbly invoking His guidance

Rhode Island 1842, Preamble. We the People of the State of Rhode Island grateful to Almighty God for the civil and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a blessing

South Carolina, 1778, Preamble. We, the people of he State of South Carolina. grateful to God for our liberties, do ordain and establish this Constitution.

South Dakota 1889, Preamble. We, the people of South Dakota, grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious liberties ... establish this...

Tennessee 1796, Art. XI.III. That all men have a natural and indefeasible right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their conscience...

Texas 1845, Preamble. We the People of the Republic of Texas, acknowledging, with gratitude, the grace and beneficence of God.

Utah 1896, Preamble. Grateful to Almighty God for life and liberty, we establish this Constitution ..

Vermont 1777, Preamble. Whereas all government ought to ... enable the individuals who compose it to enjoy their natural rights, and other blessings which the Author of Existence has bestowed on man ...

Virginia 1776, Bill of Rights, XVI ... Religion, or the Duty which we owe our Creator ... can be directed only by Reason ... and that it is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian Forbearance, Love and Charity towards each other ...

Washington 1889, Preamble. We the People of the State of Washington, grateful to the Supreme Ruler of the Universe for our liberties, do ordain this Constitution ...

West Virginia 1872, Preamble. Since through Divine Providence we enjoy the blessings of civil, political and religious liberty, we, the people of West Virginia . reaffirm our faith in and constant reliance upon God .

Wisconsin 1848, Preamble. We, the people of Wisconsin, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, domestic tranquility ...

Wyoming 1890, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Wyoming, grateful to God for our civil, political, and religious liberties . establish this Constitution...

 

[NewGuy]

For the record, there is no real "seperation of church and state" in the Constitution.

People don't read it, and therefore believe what they hear.

 

[Moi]

You need only look at the words and deeds of the founding fathers to realize that they did not believe that the first amendment never meant (nor was intended to) as a total prohbition of the government to mention religion or religious things.

Jefferson held church services in the capital building; he used the word Creator in the Declaration; other founding fathers believed in divinity and continued to practice their religions in public. In fact, the whole movement to abolish any mention of god or religion has only come about recently.

 

[NewGuy]

Take a gander at the Articles of Confederation:

And Whereas it hath pleased the Great Governor of the World to incline the hearts of the legislatures we respectively represent in Congress, to approve of, and to authorize us to ratify the said Articles of Confederation and perpetual Union. Know Ye that we the undersigned delegates, by virtue of the power and authority to us given for that purpose, do by these presents, in the name and in behalf of our respective constituents, fully and entirely ratify and confirm each and every of the said Articles of Confederation and perpetual Union, and all and singular the matters and things therein contained: And we do further solemnly plight and engage the faith of our respective constituents, that they shall abide by the determinations of the United States in Congress assembled, on all questions, which by the said Confederation are submitted to them. And that the Articles thereof shall be inviolably observed by the States we respectively represent, and that the Union shall be perpetual.

In Witness whereof we have hereunto set our hands in Congress. Done at Philadelphia in the State of Pennsylvania the ninth day of July in the Year of our Lord One Thousand Seven Hundred and Seventy-Eight, and in the Third Year of the independence of America.

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Agreed to by Congress 15 November 1777 In force after ratification by Maryland, 1 March 1781

Anyone who claims that we were intended to have a seperation of church and state is completely and utterly talking out of their hat.

 

[Johnney]

better hide that article! if it gets out there will be uprisings in everystate about it. theyll get that butthole who sued over his daughter saying "under god" in the pledge to launch another frivilous lawsuit

 

[Hobbit]

It's all about the secularist agenda. The elite media wants all semblece of religious morality erased from the nation, so they found some letter recommending the seperation of church and state that one of the founding fathers wrote, and not only did they misinterperet it (originally intended to prevent the church from controlling the government), they pretended it was part of the Constitution, and now so many people believe, even I believed it for a time. The Constitution only states that Congress shall pass no law limiting or regulating the free practice of religion. That's it. This means that the ACLU doesn't really have a foot to stand on when they try to prohibit the leasing of public land to religious organizations.

 

[William Joyce]

This is true. There is NOTHING in the Constitution that says STATE governments cannot have official religions. It's just been interpreted that way, through the 14th. A Con Law prof I e-mailed with once said that under the original understanding, you could very well have the Methodist Republic of Massachusetts or the Catholic State of Virginia.

I wouldn't want to go that far, but certainly, where we are now in terms of the government's ban on religion would not have been envisioned by the founders.

 

[eric]

daughter saying "under god" in the pledge

Meanwhile the daughter and the wife want to say it, go figure !:

 

[Johnney]

Originally posted by eric
Meanwhile the daughter and the wife want to say it, go figure !:

its jsut the dad being a butthole

 

[NewGuy]

its jsut the dad being a butthole

-Proven by the facts:

1. He didn't even have custody of her when he filed the lawsuit, and

2. He was never even married to his "wife".

 

[William Joyce]

Interesting information about Michael Newdow here:

http://www.forward.com/issues/2002/02.07.05/news9.html

 

[eric]

He really needs to get a life !

 

[Bullypulpit]

...Politics and religion are an invariably volatile and, often, lethal combination. We need look no further that the supposed theocracy of the Taliban. God was the ultimate authority and the shari'at the ultimate law of the land. Theocracies do little more than foster intolerance and fear amongst the populace and give those who wield power ultimately arbitrary authority over the lives of their subjects. History has shown us this time and time again.

At best, religion provides us with a general guide for living, but it cannot be considered absolute. Religious dogma is, after all, the product of the human intellect, regardless of the source of attribution. Thus it inherently reflects the failings, foibles, misconceptions, pre-judgements and prejudices of its creators.

 

[5stringJeff]

No one is talking about imposing a theocracy. What we are alluding to is the trend of ending even the mention of God and religion from the government - the opposite end of the spectrum from the Taliban's regime. Mentioning God in the Pledge of Alleginace (or on our money) doesn't impose any type of state-sponsored theocracy.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Governemnt is the rule of law established by man for man. Any attempt to bring a deity into the equation simply sets us on the slippery slope to religious control of the government.

 

[Moi]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
Governemnt is the rule of law established by man for man. Any attempt to bring a deity into the equation simply sets us on the slippery slope to religious control of the government.

Yeah, a slope that is so lingering it's lasted over 225 years!

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by Moi
Yeah, a slope that is so lingering it's lasted over 225 years!

That was before the rise of the religious right in American. Before, religion was in the background, which is as it should be. Now, religion is being dragged to the forefront and touted as America's route to salvation. And it's not.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
That was before the rise of the religious right in American. Before, religion was in the background, which is as it should be. Now, religion is being dragged to the forefront and touted as America's route to salvation. And it's not.

What is the salvation of America? Communism and appeasement?

 

[eric]

religion was in the background

Are you insane, or just pretending ?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

WHo else thinks bullypulpit is a two cent hooker?