Senator McCarthy: Too Soon Forgotten

[Toronado3800]

Contemptible is your subjective judgement....

...I've yet to see you apply that to Obama....or Reid..etc.

Now for your attempt at obfuscation:

What is apparent in this thread is that the good Senator was not lying about those he pointed out as enemies of America, and that is the nature of this thread.

This thread was started about McCarthy (not Reid or..what's the other guy's name again?). If you wish to now redefine it to exclude anything that refutes your position, you may do so (to your embarrassment). It is not my job to equally praise or criticize anyone or anything. I doubt you'll see me defending much that is essentially Republican or Democrat.

At least you accept that this man, the subject of this thread that you started, was a miserable character and no one to look up to, even if (big if) he was right that boogey men were in the closet.

Well he was right and in fact understated about the boogey man in the closet because those were the people who convinced FDR to support Mao over Shek and surrender Eastern Europe to Uncle Joe Stalin

See, it mattered

Now before you get all excited in blind constitution tearing fury read me out.

Stalin was a monster like I said. The cold war was real.

Spies were all over the place. We were fighting Russia all over the place.

Heck, starting before the Commies were in power we were fighting them. Go look up some unit histories if you don't believe me. (seperate incarnations of the HMS Erebus shelled both our and Russian revolutionaries oddly enough) Even the Brits were in on it.

I just don't think Europe in 45 was a good battle for us. Korea against the newly formed Chinese went poorly enough. Maybe we could have nuked Amsterdam in August of 45 to pull pressure off our troops in Dunkirk. Man, that is another five years of an unsure war between the west and Russia after the world was at war for a decade of the previous three.

FDR, more Truman, had faith our system would winout and it did.

 

[Cecilie1200]

McCarthy isn't a hero, he ruined people's lives. Owen Lattimore's career was ruined and he even left the country.
He accused a lot of innocent people, and even went after the Army.
You guys seem to forget the lives of innocent people he destroyed.

Um, honey, Owen Lattimore's career SHOULD have been ruined, because he wasn't innocent. He was guilty.

 

[Cecilie1200]

What about people like Lena Horne etc?
McCarthy was not a hero, he was a dangerous fool who destroyed many people lives, and our government allowed him to. You should be ashamed of yourself for even defending what he did to many innocent people.
Oh! And Psst, it's not illegal to be a communist.

1) What does Lena Horne have to do with McCarthy?

2) Pssst! No one ever said it WAS illegal to be a Communist, but thank you so very much for the straw man. McCarthy wasn't investigating CRIMES, you dimwit. He was investigating security leaks in the government.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Did McCarthy do anything else in his career than chase script writers? What programs did he achieve for his constituency?

Did McCarthy do any "chasing script writers" in his career, or are you just a dumbass who doesn't know jack shit about McCarthy?

That's a rhetorical question.

 

[Cecilie1200]

From Wikipedia:
"It is well documented that McCarthy lied about his war record. Despite his automatic commission, he claimed to have enlisted as a "buck private". He flew twelve combat missions as a gunner-observer, earning the nickname of "Tail-Gunner Joe" in the course of one of these missions.[15]

He later claimed 32 missions in order to qualify for a Distinguished Flying Cross, which he received in 1952. McCarthy publicized a letter of commendation which he claimed had been signed by his commanding officer and countersigned by Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, then Chief of Naval Operations. However, it was revealed that McCarthy had written this letter himself, in his capacity as intelligence officer. A "war wound" that McCarthy made the subject of varying stories involving airplane crashes or antiaircraft fire was in fact received aboard ship during a ceremony for sailors crossing the equator for the first time."

Some hero.

Some source. Wikipedia? Why not just wear a t-shirt that says, "I'm a gullible fucking moron" and be done with it?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Lena Horne was a black woman, she had to spend her time singing in night clubs. And you are justifying what he did because someone enjoyed being exiled in Paris?
I would rather go to Paris by choice.

How about Arthur Miller?

My friend is a self proclaimed Marxist should she be jailed or forced to live another country because of this?

Lena Horne was a government worker???


and Arthur Miller...too????


Wow.


OK...now for the truth:

1. "— the House Un-American Activities Committee; anti-Communist probes into Hollywood, labor unions, and America's schools and universities; the Rosenberg trial; blacklisting in the media and schoolteachers fired for disloyalty — had nothing to do with McCarthy and he had nothing to do with them (although when asked, he generally approved of them, as most other Americans did).

McCarthy's own committee in the Senate, the Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations, which he chaired for less than two years, had a specific duty to investigate communism in the federal government and among government employees."
Joseph McCarthy


You didn't know that, did you?

Did you want to say something about nit-wits?


More?

2. "That fact tends to get lost when historians dwell exclusively on the stories of harassment, professional disgrace, and other indignities suffered as a result of McCarthy's and other anti-Communist investigations. Dalton Trumbo, Dashiell Hammett, Howard Fast, Paul Robeson, Steve Nelson, Frances Farmer, and Lillian Hellman appear in standard treatments of the period in the same way in which the names of martyrs grace the pages of histories of the early church. Their personal ordeals are constantly presented as proof that America in those days must have been in the grip of an anti-Communist hysteria and a "witch-hunt." (In order not to be left out, Hellman told her own tale of woe in a short book of breathtaking dishonesty, entitled Scoundrel Time.)


3. The best and most generous estimate is that during the entire decade of the red scare, ten thousand Americans lost their jobs because of their past or present affiliation with the Communist Party or one of its auxiliary organizations. Of those who lost their jobs, two thousand worked in the government, and in perhaps forty cases McCarthy himself was directly or indirectly responsible for their being fired. In only one case — that of Owen Lattimore — can anyone make the argument that McCarthy's allegations led to any actual legal proceedings, and there a judge eventually threw out most of the indictment. Paradoxically, the fact that McCarthy never sent anyone to prison is also turned against him; opponents claimed that during his entire career, he never actually exposed a single spy or Communist — a claim that is manifestly untrue, as we will see.


4.In fact, the number of people who did spend time in prison remained small. A grand total of 108 Communist Party members were convicted under the antisubversion provisions of the Smith Act, which Congress passed in 1941 (long before McCarthy was a member) and applied as equally to Nazi and fascist organizations as it did to Communists. Another twenty Communist Party members were imprisoned under state and local laws. Fewer than a dozen Americans went to jail for espionage activities (one of them being Alger Hiss, who was convicted of perjury). Exactly two were sentenced to death for conspiracy to commit espionage: Julius and Ethel Rosenberg."
Ibid.



'Claiming to have been “blacklisted” is Hollywood’s version of coming over on the Mayflower.
Thanks to brave American patriots like Senator Joseph McCarthy, today Communists in America are substantially less likely to be employed in the Code Room at the Pentagon. These days, they are more likely to be scribbling little essays in the main street media.'
Coulter

I am speaking of McCarthyism, nit wit.

Really? How can you be "speaking of McCarthyism" when you're talking about things that happened before McCarthy ever took office . . . NITWIT?

No where did I state he was involved. I am using them as examples of what his way of thinking and your way of thinking causes. And what his crusade caused?

What part of "Thread about Joseph McCarthy, asked to name specific people whose lives Joseph McCarthy ruined, started babbling about Lena Horne" makes you think - and as always, I use the term loosely when I refer to that farrago that takes place inside your head - you "weren't stating he was involved""? If he wasn't involved, you ignorant sow, what the fuck are you doing bringing it up AT ALL?

His crusade couldn't have "caused" anything with the Hollywood blacklisting, insofar as it took place BEFORE MCCARTHY EVER TOOK OFFICE. It's called "linear time", and is clearly beyond your comprehension . . . as so many things are.

And you don't think McCarthy had anything to do With Arthur Miller? He went after the radio host, you don't think he had them go after Miller?

And what about Owen Lattimore? He was cleared of everything, but he lost work due to McCarthy falsely accusing him.

Unsurprisingly, since it's something that YOU said, this is competely, totally, and laughably wrong.

So I will be clearer. His ideas and his witch hunt ruined people's lives. And if you think he had nothing to do with the house committee you are very naive.

So I will be clearer. The more you talk, the more of an ignoramus you appear to be. And if you think a SENATOR had fuck-all to do with a HOUSE investigation that took place BEFORE HE TOOK OFFICE - there's that "passage of time" thing that so confuses both of your brain cells again - you're . . . well, you're Luissa, which pretty much says it all.

 

[Cecilie1200]

You are afraid to admit that you are wrong. Dalton Trumbo did not meet the criteria of your challenge,

How about Martin Ritt?

You are a fraud.

You selected Trumbo as your champion.

I proved that he was guilty as charged....

...and, his case was not related to Senator McCarty.




I am disappointed in your lack of character.

You did not prove the criteria of the challange, and you know that I have you with Martin Ritt. I accept your capitulation and ignore your lack of character.

In order to "accept a capitulation", you would first have to be correct, and as usual, you're talking out of your ass. You don't "have" anyone with Martin Ritt, shitforbrains.

Even the leftist-worshipped Wikipedia knows that Martin Ritt had exactly two things to do with Joseph McCarthy: fuck and all.

After working as a playwright with the Works Progress Administration, acting on stage, and directing hundreds of plays, Ritt became a successful television director.
In 1952, Ritt was acting, directing, and producing teleplays and television programs when he was caught up by the Red Scare and investigations of communist influence in Hollywood and the movie industry. Although not directly named by the House Un-American Activities Committee (HUAC), Ritt was mentioned in an anti-communist newsletter called Counterattack, published by American Business Consultants, a group formed by three former FBI agents.
Counterattack alleged that Ritt had helped Communist Party-affiliated locals of the New York-based Retail, Wholesale and Department Store Union stage their annual show. Also cited was a show he had directed for Russian War Relief at Madison Square Garden. His associations with the Group Theater, founded on a Russian model, and the Federal Theater Project (which Congress had stopped funding in 1939 because of what some anti-New Deal congressmen claimed to be a left-wing political tone to some productions), were also known to HUAC. He was finally blacklisted by the television industry when a Syracuse grocer charged him with donating money to Communist China in 1951.

House Un-American Activities Committee. Wait, what position did McCarthy hold with the US government? Senator, wasn't it?

I don't need your fucking surrender, because you were just conquered.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Progs were trained to hate McCarthy and froth at the mouth at the mention of his name because they were told that he used his HUAC to create a "Red Scare" (the timing of this Red Scare was curious: 6 months after the USSR tried to start WWIII with the Berlin Blockade, and 6 months before the ChiCom gave NoKO the go ahead to start killing US solders) and ruin the lives of the innocent.

What happens when you can't name a single innocent, when you see the Communists themselves started the Red Scare, when you realize it was McCarthy that was slandered and lied about?

It is the people who named up McCarthyism that are the liars

We have been naming them. You guys are just going off with your revisionist history.

"Revisionist history"? You mean like blaming a SENATOR for the actions of a HOUSE committee? THAT sort of revision?

 

[there4eyeM]

From Wikipedia:
"It is well documented that McCarthy lied about his war record. Despite his automatic commission, he claimed to have enlisted as a "buck private". He flew twelve combat missions as a gunner-observer, earning the nickname of "Tail-Gunner Joe" in the course of one of these missions.[15]

He later claimed 32 missions in order to qualify for a Distinguished Flying Cross, which he received in 1952. McCarthy publicized a letter of commendation which he claimed had been signed by his commanding officer and countersigned by Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, then Chief of Naval Operations. However, it was revealed that McCarthy had written this letter himself, in his capacity as intelligence officer. A "war wound" that McCarthy made the subject of varying stories involving airplane crashes or antiaircraft fire was in fact received aboard ship during a ceremony for sailors crossing the equator for the first time."

Some hero.

Proud to be 'negged for the above by the poster identified as 'something1200', a weak individual who finds facts counter to his/her preconceptions intolerable.

Childish and petty.

Somewhat like McCarthy. Guess it's from 'heros' such as he that the 'person' got it.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Sure....

For all the McCarthy opponents in the thread, although the weight of the argument is clearly against what they propound....

....there is a massive resistence to overcome in admitting they were wrong.

But you.....I'll bet that you'll think about things that you learned about which you were unaware.
And may even- in the privacy of your own thoughts- reconsider things you came in most certain of.

'Sure' of.

I learned some folks here and a writer named Ann have a pretty liberal definition of the word guilty.

But hey, set your bar low, set big government loose on a witch hunt and you can claim a victory.

What our instruction provided was proof that Senator McCarthy ruined no innocents, and performed the heroic task of shining the light on day both on enemies in government, and on the Liberals who were letting those enemies find comfort.


If you haven't learned that, then you are far less intelligent than I had believed.

 

[Toronado3800]

For all the McCarthy opponents in the thread, although the weight of the argument is clearly against what they propound....

....there is a massive resistence to overcome in admitting they were wrong.

But you.....I'll bet that you'll think about things that you learned about which you were unaware.
And may even- in the privacy of your own thoughts- reconsider things you came in most certain of.

'Sure' of.

I learned some folks here and a writer named Ann have a pretty liberal definition of the word guilty.

But hey, set your bar low, set big government loose on a witch hunt and you can claim a victory.

What our instruction provided was proof that Senator McCarthy ruined no innocents, and performed the heroic task of shining the light on day both on enemies in government, and on the Liberals who were letting those enemies find comfort.


If you haven't learned that, then you are far less intelligent than I had believed.

Perhaps our disagreement is rising from a difference in political philosophy.

You want to be labeled as a conservative but for some reason get quite liberal with this whole judicial guilt issue. (and a Reagan love but that was another post)

Me, I am all over the place and thus free to have opinions of right and wrong. Guns, love em. Human rights, love em, keep governemnt out of my bedroom.

Change your slogan and join me!