Sen Joe McCarthy: American Patriot and Hero

[JakeStarkey]

Plenty of proof from left, center, and right has been posted here to disprove PC's nonsense and document your lying. And if you can't get away with it here, you Herren Reactionaries sure aren't getting away with it in the larger world.

 

[HUGGY]

See the difference between the froth and spew from the Left today as opposed to the 50's iis that they've lost their media monopoly so they are exposed for the liars they are.

Add up all the posts made by the Leftists and there's not a single solitary statement disproving anything McCarthy said. The KGB has admitted to a robust spy effort at State and now tens of thousands of pages of FBI files have confirmed what McCarthy stated: State was overrun with Communists (Full disclosure: in reviewing the FBI files, my grandfather appears on a watch list)

You Leftists can continue to defend Communist infiltration of US State all you want, you look like idiots with no facts and did I mention that you;re defending Communist infiltration of US State in the process?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh2sWSVRrmo[/ame]

Ain't stoppin you from shopping at Walmart is it Frankie..

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Not a shred of evidence to thwart McCarthy's Central Thesis: US State was infiltrated by Communist spies.

Not a single piece of evidence to the contrary.

"Cause I say so" or calling him a drunk or calling me names, means you've lost the argument

AND as an added bonus you continue to support Communists.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

What McCarthyism means to me today is that the American Left, a wholly owned subsidiary of the Communist Party is able to shout over the truth. That was fairly easy when they had a media monopoly now that it's gone, they sound like howler monkeys

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Jake, the standard of proof is somewhat higher that "because I said so" Especially after your performance where you challenged the veracity one of the key researchers of the book by suggesting that "he check the footnotes" to a book you did not read and did not bother to site one of the footnote you called into question.

But, please do not get discouraged! I encourage to continue to challenge me and the author because it only serve to highlight the vacuousness of the opposition

 

[JakeStarkey]

CrusaderFrank, the standard proof is not found in Mark's research and PC's twisting the evidence. This story has been told already, and it has been told correctly. McCarthy was rightfully concerned about communism then went about it in a way that stole other people's personal liberties and smeared the American flag all for his own perverted glory.

Why do you and PC and the other reactionary hacks here not want to admit that it was the GOP that pulled McCarthy down, not the libs or the Dems? Why is that, Frank, do you think? The interesting thing is that you guys will no more be successful now than McCarthy in his time, or the George Wallaces in their times. The American dream and glory is so much larger than your sillinesses and desires to run back to the bad old times.

Don't worry, Frank: you will be able to confront your fears in the future, because you are not going to impose your silliness on the rest of the country. It will be OK, old son.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

CrusaderFrank, the standard proof is not found in Mark's research and PC's twisting the evidence. This story has been told already, and it has been told correctly. McCarthy was rightfully concerned about communism then went about it in a way that stole other people's personal liberties and smeared the American flag all for his own perverted glory.

Why do you and PC and the other reactionary hacks here not want to admit that it was the GOP that pulled McCarthy down, not the libs or the Dems? Why is that, Frank, do you think? The interesting thing is that you guys will no more successful than McCarthy in his time, or the George Wallaces in their times, or you wacks in your times. The American dream and glory is so much larger than your sillinesses and desires to run back to the bad old times.

Don't worry, Frank: you will be able to confront your fears in the future, because you are not going to impose your silliness on the rest of the country. It will be OK, old son.

Translation: I got nothing other than the lies that were told 50 years ago.

Had you bothered to read the book, and I know you didn't, you would have realized a lot has changed, a lot of new information has been brought out, all of which not only validates McCarthy, but shows that he far understated the scope and extent of the problem.

By shouting over the truth, Progressives successfully practiced McCarthyism on Joe McCarthy. Your side lied about him and now the truth is out and you can't shout it out anymore

 

[Gadawg73]

Which leads us back to the same premise: all the intelligence records from the old KGB, plus the declassified decryptions of their Cold War messages are all fakes to make us believe that a bunch of people who are dead now anyway were really spies, for some unknown reason. Because that makes more sense to you than that you dumbasses were just WRONG.

Of course all of the declassified records of the KGB, as there is no old, current, last year's, the last decades' or any KGB OTHER THAN THE KGB and the declassified decryptions of Cold War messages have all been turned over to us with no scrutiny whatsoever in the spirit of detente, cooperation amongst the countries and as a gesture of goodwill to end any and all problems, tensions and trouble between the countries.
Anyone and everyone that would ever suggest that our good frends, the Russians, would continue to spy on us, kill our CIA operatives overseas, fund terrorist organizations worldwide and fund military operations world wide against our interests IS A LIAR.
They have to be. The Russians deny all of that. They are our friends.

What marvels one is not how dumb you are, Dullard, but how strenuously you fight to remain ignorant.

‘The Sword and the Shield: The Mitrokhin Archives, the History of the KGB,” by Christopher Andrew and Vasili Mitrokhin.

1. This top archives was described by the FBI as “the most complete and extensive intelligence ever achieved from any source.”

2. Vasili Mitrokhin worked for 30 years in the foreign intelligence archives of the KGB. In 1972 he was made responsible for moving the entire archives to new headquarters in Moscow. But Mitrokhin spent over a decade making notes and transcripts of these classified files. In 1992, British Secret Intelligence Service exfiltrated the defector, and his presence in the west remained secret until the publication of this book.

3. December 20, 1917 The KGB traces its origins to this date, six weeks after the Bolshevik Revolution, with the foundation of the Cheka, the first Soviet security and intelligence agency. KGB officers were, in fact, paid on the 20th of each month in honor of the Cheka’s birthday. The KGB adopted the Cheka symbol’s of the sword and the shield: the shield to defend the revolution, and the sword to smite its enemies.

4. “But for the remarkably lax security of the Roosevelt administration, the damage to NKVD operation might have been much worse than the arrest (May 1941) of (Gayk) Ovakimyan” [head of NKVD legal residency department]. P.107

5. “In September (1945) J. Edgar Hoover reported to the White House and the State Department that (defector) Gouzenko had provide information on the activities of a number of Soviet spies in the United States, one of whom was ‘an assistant to the Secretary of State’…On November 7 (Elizabeth) Bentley…began revealing what she knew of Soviet espionage…Next day Hoover sent President Truman’s military aide a first list of fourteen of those identified by Bentley as supplying information to ‘the Soviet espionage system’: among them Assistant Secretary of the Treasury Harry Dexter White, OSS (CIA) executive assistant Duncan C. Lee, and Roosevelt’s former aide Lauchlin Currie.” Ibid, p.142

Ah, The Sword and The Shield, a great read. Andrew's historical account is excellent. In detail it proved without any doubt that Western anti communists extremely overestimated the Soviets military and economic strength. The book completely shot out the belief during the Cold War that the Soviet nuclear missle technology was superior to ours, a myth debunked that McCarthy and his supporters quoted as fact.
The book further proved that most of the specific people investigated by the McCarthy hearings turned out NOT to have any part whatsoever in Soviet activities and that the Soviets did not use the methods of espionage suspected and alleged by McCarthy and his ilk. Their fantasies, unlike the detailed accounts in this book on Soviet espionage, were unrealistic witch hunts totally unrelated to traditional Soviet procedures in subversion, infiltration and espionage.

And you use this work as your evidence?

 

[Wry Catcher]

Edward R. Murrow was my last hero. When this nation was drowning in cowardice and demagoguery, it was Murrow who hurled the spear at the terror. The spear was his See It Now television broadcast on Senator Joe McCarthy.

Murrow did not kill off McCarthy or McCarthyism, but he helped halt America's incredible slide toward a native brand of fascism. Unbelievable. You had to live through the times to know how fearful -- indeed, terrorized -- people were about speaking their minds. The cold war with Russia, the threat of a hot war with China, security programs and loyalty oaths -- all had cowed the citizens of the most powerful nation on earth into keeping their minds closed and their mouths shut. The Senate of the United States. in order not to appear Red, chose to be yellow. It was the Age of McCarthyism. Edward R. Murrow helped bring it to an end.

He was the most famous newsman in broadcasting, but he spelled out the limitations of his trade. "Just because the microphone in front of you amplifies your voice around the world," he'd say, "is no reason to think we have any more wisdom than we had when our voices could reach only from one end of the bar to the other."

His writing was simple, direct. He used strong, active verbs. On paper, it looked plain. The voice made the words catch fire. He regarded the news as a sacred trust. Accuracy was everything. And, always, fairness.
Link:
Edward R. Murrow

 

[JakeStarkey]

CrusaderFrank, the standard proof is not found in Mark's research and PC's twisting the evidence. This story has been told already, and it has been told correctly. McCarthy was rightfully concerned about communism then went about it in a way that stole other people's personal liberties and smeared the American flag all for his own perverted glory.

Why do you and PC and the other reactionary hacks here not want to admit that it was the GOP that pulled McCarthy down, not the libs or the Dems? Why is that, Frank, do you think? The interesting thing is that you guys will no more successful than McCarthy in his time, or the George Wallaces in their times, or you wacks in your times. The American dream and glory is so much larger than your sillinesses and desires to run back to the bad old times.

Don't worry, Frank: you will be able to confront your fears in the future, because you are not going to impose your silliness on the rest of the country. It will be OK, old son.

<snip: as much bullshit as PC's>

Address this one quote, old son: "Why do you and PC and the other reactionary hacks here not want to admit that it was the GOP that pulled McCarthy down, not the libs or the Dems?"

No running, punning, or funning. Why won't you admit up front it was the GOP that pulled down your hero?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Of course all of the declassified records of the KGB, as there is no old, current, last year's, the last decades' or any KGB OTHER THAN THE KGB and the declassified decryptions of Cold War messages have all been turned over to us with no scrutiny whatsoever in the spirit of detente, cooperation amongst the countries and as a gesture of goodwill to end any and all problems, tensions and trouble between the countries.
Anyone and everyone that would ever suggest that our good frends, the Russians, would continue to spy on us, kill our CIA operatives overseas, fund terrorist organizations worldwide and fund military operations world wide against our interests IS A LIAR.
They have to be. The Russians deny all of that. They are our friends.

What marvels one is not how dumb you are, Dullard, but how strenuously you fight to remain ignorant.

‘The Sword and the Shield: The Mitrokhin Archives, the History of the KGB,” by Christopher Andrew and Vasili Mitrokhin.

1. This top archives was described by the FBI as “the most complete and extensive intelligence ever achieved from any source.”

2. Vasili Mitrokhin worked for 30 years in the foreign intelligence archives of the KGB. In 1972 he was made responsible for moving the entire archives to new headquarters in Moscow. But Mitrokhin spent over a decade making notes and transcripts of these classified files. In 1992, British Secret Intelligence Service exfiltrated the defector, and his presence in the west remained secret until the publication of this book.

3. December 20, 1917 The KGB traces its origins to this date, six weeks after the Bolshevik Revolution, with the foundation of the Cheka, the first Soviet security and intelligence agency. KGB officers were, in fact, paid on the 20th of each month in honor of the Cheka’s birthday. The KGB adopted the Cheka symbol’s of the sword and the shield: the shield to defend the revolution, and the sword to smite its enemies.

4. “But for the remarkably lax security of the Roosevelt administration, the damage to NKVD operation might have been much worse than the arrest (May 1941) of (Gayk) Ovakimyan” [head of NKVD legal residency department]. P.107

5. “In September (1945) J. Edgar Hoover reported to the White House and the State Department that (defector) Gouzenko had provide information on the activities of a number of Soviet spies in the United States, one of whom was ‘an assistant to the Secretary of State’…On November 7 (Elizabeth) Bentley…began revealing what she knew of Soviet espionage…Next day Hoover sent President Truman’s military aide a first list of fourteen of those identified by Bentley as supplying information to ‘the Soviet espionage system’: among them Assistant Secretary of the Treasury Harry Dexter White, OSS (CIA) executive assistant Duncan C. Lee, and Roosevelt’s former aide Lauchlin Currie.” Ibid, p.142

Ah, The Sword and The Shield, a great read. Andrew's historical account is excellent. In detail it proved without any doubt that Western anti communists extremely overestimated the Soviets military and economic strength. The book completely shot out the belief during the Cold War that the Soviet nuclear missle technology was superior to ours, a myth debunked that McCarthy and his supporters quoted as fact.
The book further proved that most of the specific people investigated by the McCarthy hearings turned out NOT to have any part whatsoever in Soviet activities and that the Soviets did not use the methods of espionage suspected and alleged by McCarthy and his ilk. Their fantasies, unlike the detailed accounts in this book on Soviet espionage, were unrealistic witch hunts totally unrelated to traditional Soviet procedures in subversion, infiltration and espionage.

And you use this work as your evidence?

"In detail it proved without any doubt that Western anti communists extremely overestimated the Soviets military and economic strength. "
I note that you have provided not one quote or direct reference from the book....

Why is that?

Could you be a dullard, and duplicitous?

Could deceit be your last weapon?

Could it be that you have never read the tome in question?

Could you be no more than a two-faced mouth-breathing bottom feeder?

Challenge: prove the statements you made in the post with quotes from the book...but be aware, I have it here, have read same, and demand veracity.


BTW, ...

1. Mitrokhin named some rather diverse individual in whom Soviet placed high hopes on the eve of WW II: Laurence Duggan (agent ’19,’ later FRANK) in the State Department; Michael Straight (NIGEL), State Department; Martha Dodd Stern (LIZA), daughter of the former US ambassador to Germany, and the wife of Alfred Kaufman Stern (also a Soviet agent); Martha’s brother William E. Doss, jr. (PRESIDENT), who had run for Congress as a Democrat; Harry Dexter White in the Treasury Department (KASSIR and JURIST); an agent codenamed MORIS, probably John Abt in the Justice Department; Boris Morros (FROST), Hollywood producer; Mary Wolfe Price (KID and DIR), secretary to Walter Lippman, and Henry Buchman (KHOSYAIN, ‘employer’) owner of a woman’s fashion salon in Baltimore. [p106]

2. “But for the remarkably lax security of the Roosevelt administration, the damage to NKVD operation might have been much worse than the arrest (May 1941) of (Gayk) Ovakimyan” [head of NKVD legal residency department]. P.107

3. “Henry Wallace, vice-president during Roosevelt’s third term in office (1941-1945), said later that if the ailing Roosevelt had died during that period and he had become President, it had been his intention to make Duggan his Secretary of State and White his Secretary of Tresury…The fact that Roosevelt survived into…a fourth term…deprived Soviet intelligence of what would have been its most spectacular success in penetrating a major Western government.” P.107-8

4. In 1944, in addition to Fuchs, there were two more spies at Los Alamos. “The first, David Greenglass, was recruited through a group of S & T agents run by Julius Rosenberg (codenamed ANRWNNA and LIBERAL), A 26-year-old New York Communist with a degree in electrical engineering. Like Fuchs, the members of the Rosenberg ring, who included his wife, Ethel, had been rewarded with cash bonuses in the summer.” Ibid, p.128

5. “The New York residency also reported in November 1944 that the precociously brilliant nineteen-year old Harvard physicist Theodore Alvin “Ted” Hall, (codename MLAD) then working at Los Alamos, had indicated his willingness to collaborate. As well as being inspired by the myth-image of the Soviet worker-peasant state, which was an article of faith for most ideological Soviet agents, Hall convinced himself that an American nuclear monopoly would threaten the peace of the post- war world. Passing the secrets of the MANHATTAN project to Moscow was thus a way ‘to help the world’ as well as the Soviet Union.’ ”Ibid, p.128

6. In November of 1944, “according to Elizabeth Bentley, there came an urgent warning from an agent in the White House, Roosevelt’s administrative assistant Lauchlin Currie. Currie reported that ‘the Americans were on the verge of breaking the Soviet code.’ The alarm appears to have subsided when it was discovered that Currie had wrongly concluded that a fire-damaged NKGB codebook obtained by OSS from the Finns would enable Soviet communications (which went through a further, theoretically impenetrable, encipherment by ‘one-time pad’) to be decrypted.” The Sword and the Shield: The Mitrokhin Archives, the History of the KGB,” by Christopher Andrew and Vasili Mitrokhin.p.130

I would be happy to provide further just to prove what a dishonest, fake, fraud, mala fide and despicable sack of bezoar you are.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Who exactly is the Minister of The Ministry of Truth? Which reactionary has the authority to 'correct' history? [of course, those who correct history are destined to re-learn it - in Tennessee, I've heard they don't fool ya.]

 

[JakeStarkey]

What marvels one is not how dumb you are, Dullard, but how strenuously you fight to remain ignorant.

&#8216;The Sword and the Shield: The Mitrokhin Archives, the History of the KGB,&#8221; by Christopher Andrew and Vasili Mitrokhin.

1. This top archives was described by the FBI as &#8220;the most complete and extensive intelligence ever achieved from any source.&#8221;

2. Vasili Mitrokhin worked for 30 years in the foreign intelligence archives of the KGB. In 1972 he was made responsible for moving the entire archives to new headquarters in Moscow. But Mitrokhin spent over a decade making notes and transcripts of these classified files. In 1992, British Secret Intelligence Service exfiltrated the defector, and his presence in the west remained secret until the publication of this book.

3. December 20, 1917 The KGB traces its origins to this date, six weeks after the Bolshevik Revolution, with the foundation of the Cheka, the first Soviet security and intelligence agency. KGB officers were, in fact, paid on the 20th of each month in honor of the Cheka&#8217;s birthday. The KGB adopted the Cheka symbol&#8217;s of the sword and the shield: the shield to defend the revolution, and the sword to smite its enemies.

4. &#8220;But for the remarkably lax security of the Roosevelt administration, the damage to NKVD operation might have been much worse than the arrest (May 1941) of (Gayk) Ovakimyan&#8221; [head of NKVD legal residency department]. P.107

5. &#8220;In September (1945) J. Edgar Hoover reported to the White House and the State Department that (defector) Gouzenko had provide information on the activities of a number of Soviet spies in the United States, one of whom was &#8216;an assistant to the Secretary of State&#8217;&#8230;On November 7 (Elizabeth) Bentley&#8230;began revealing what she knew of Soviet espionage&#8230;Next day Hoover sent President Truman&#8217;s military aide a first list of fourteen of those identified by Bentley as supplying information to &#8216;the Soviet espionage system&#8217;: among them Assistant Secretary of the Treasury Harry Dexter White, OSS (CIA) executive assistant Duncan C. Lee, and Roosevelt&#8217;s former aide Lauchlin Currie.&#8221; Ibid, p.142

Ah, The Sword and The Shield, a great read. Andrew's historical account is excellent. In detail it proved without any doubt that Western anti communists extremely overestimated the Soviets military and economic strength. The book completely shot out the belief during the Cold War that the Soviet nuclear missle technology was superior to ours, a myth debunked that McCarthy and his supporters quoted as fact.
The book further proved that most of the specific people investigated by the McCarthy hearings turned out NOT to have any part whatsoever in Soviet activities and that the Soviets did not use the methods of espionage suspected and alleged by McCarthy and his ilk. Their fantasies, unlike the detailed accounts in this book on Soviet espionage, were unrealistic witch hunts totally unrelated to traditional Soviet procedures in subversion, infiltration and espionage.

And you use this work as your evidence?

"In detail it proved without any doubt that Western anti communists extremely overestimated the Soviets military and economic strength. "
I note that you have provided not one quote or direct reference from the book....

Why is that?

Could you be a dullard, and duplicitous?

Could deceit be your last weapon?

Could it be that you have never read the tome in question?

Could you be no more than a two-faced mouth-breathing bottom feeder?

Challenge: prove the statements you made in the post with quotes from the book...but be aware, I have it here, have read same, and demand veracity.


BTW, ...

1. Mitrokhin named some rather diverse individual in whom Soviet placed high hopes on the eve of WW II: Laurence Duggan (agent &#8217;19,&#8217; later FRANK) in the State Department; Michael Straight (NIGEL), State Department; Martha Dodd Stern (LIZA), daughter of the former US ambassador to Germany, and the wife of Alfred Kaufman Stern (also a Soviet agent); Martha&#8217;s brother William E. Doss, jr. (PRESIDENT), who had run for Congress as a Democrat; Harry Dexter White in the Treasury Department (KASSIR and JURIST); an agent codenamed MORIS, probably John Abt in the Justice Department; Boris Morros (FROST), Hollywood producer; Mary Wolfe Price (KID and DIR), secretary to Walter Lippman, and Henry Buchman (KHOSYAIN, &#8216;employer&#8217 owner of a woman&#8217;s fashion salon in Baltimore. [p106]

2. &#8220;But for the remarkably lax security of the Roosevelt administration, the damage to NKVD operation might have been much worse than the arrest (May 1941) of (Gayk) Ovakimyan&#8221; [head of NKVD legal residency department]. P.107

3. &#8220;Henry Wallace, vice-president during Roosevelt&#8217;s third term in office (1941-1945), said later that if the ailing Roosevelt had died during that period and he had become President, it had been his intention to make Duggan his Secretary of State and White his Secretary of Tresury&#8230;The fact that Roosevelt survived into&#8230;a fourth term&#8230;deprived Soviet intelligence of what would have been its most spectacular success in penetrating a major Western government.&#8221; P.107-8

4. In 1944, in addition to Fuchs, there were two more spies at Los Alamos. &#8220;The first, David Greenglass, was recruited through a group of S & T agents run by Julius Rosenberg (codenamed ANRWNNA and LIBERAL), A 26-year-old New York Communist with a degree in electrical engineering. Like Fuchs, the members of the Rosenberg ring, who included his wife, Ethel, had been rewarded with cash bonuses in the summer.&#8221; Ibid, p.128

5. &#8220;The New York residency also reported in November 1944 that the precociously brilliant nineteen-year old Harvard physicist Theodore Alvin &#8220;Ted&#8221; Hall, (codename MLAD) then working at Los Alamos, had indicated his willingness to collaborate. As well as being inspired by the myth-image of the Soviet worker-peasant state, which was an article of faith for most ideological Soviet agents, Hall convinced himself that an American nuclear monopoly would threaten the peace of the post- war world. Passing the secrets of the MANHATTAN project to Moscow was thus a way &#8216;to help the world&#8217; as well as the Soviet Union.&#8217; &#8221;Ibid, p.128

6. In November of 1944, &#8220;according to Elizabeth Bentley, there came an urgent warning from an agent in the White House, Roosevelt&#8217;s administrative assistant Lauchlin Currie. Currie reported that &#8216;the Americans were on the verge of breaking the Soviet code.&#8217; The alarm appears to have subsided when it was discovered that Currie had wrongly concluded that a fire-damaged NKGB codebook obtained by OSS from the Finns would enable Soviet communications (which went through a further, theoretically impenetrable, encipherment by &#8216;one-time pad&#8217 to be decrypted.&#8221; The Sword and the Shield: The Mitrokhin Archives, the History of the KGB,&#8221; by Christopher Andrew and Vasili Mitrokhin.p.130

I would be happy to provide further just to prove what a dishonest, fake, fraud, mala fide and despicable sack of bezoar you are.

Mere "dishonest, fake, fraud" from you and your sources, PC. Minion Mark and you are certainly a duplicitous team of disinformation agents.

Simply read the current literature on the subject, check the sources and footnotes, particularly the way the pro-McCarthyites twist the notes and sources, and you will quickly come to realize, these are the same type of scum as McCarthy and his minions of the fifties.

 

[Gadawg73]

What marvels one is not how dumb you are, Dullard, but how strenuously you fight to remain ignorant.

&#8216;The Sword and the Shield: The Mitrokhin Archives, the History of the KGB,&#8221; by Christopher Andrew and Vasili Mitrokhin.

1. This top archives was described by the FBI as &#8220;the most complete and extensive intelligence ever achieved from any source.&#8221;

2. Vasili Mitrokhin worked for 30 years in the foreign intelligence archives of the KGB. In 1972 he was made responsible for moving the entire archives to new headquarters in Moscow. But Mitrokhin spent over a decade making notes and transcripts of these classified files. In 1992, British Secret Intelligence Service exfiltrated the defector, and his presence in the west remained secret until the publication of this book.

3. December 20, 1917 The KGB traces its origins to this date, six weeks after the Bolshevik Revolution, with the foundation of the Cheka, the first Soviet security and intelligence agency. KGB officers were, in fact, paid on the 20th of each month in honor of the Cheka&#8217;s birthday. The KGB adopted the Cheka symbol&#8217;s of the sword and the shield: the shield to defend the revolution, and the sword to smite its enemies.

4. &#8220;But for the remarkably lax security of the Roosevelt administration, the damage to NKVD operation might have been much worse than the arrest (May 1941) of (Gayk) Ovakimyan&#8221; [head of NKVD legal residency department]. P.107

5. &#8220;In September (1945) J. Edgar Hoover reported to the White House and the State Department that (defector) Gouzenko had provide information on the activities of a number of Soviet spies in the United States, one of whom was &#8216;an assistant to the Secretary of State&#8217;&#8230;On November 7 (Elizabeth) Bentley&#8230;began revealing what she knew of Soviet espionage&#8230;Next day Hoover sent President Truman&#8217;s military aide a first list of fourteen of those identified by Bentley as supplying information to &#8216;the Soviet espionage system&#8217;: among them Assistant Secretary of the Treasury Harry Dexter White, OSS (CIA) executive assistant Duncan C. Lee, and Roosevelt&#8217;s former aide Lauchlin Currie.&#8221; Ibid, p.142

Ah, The Sword and The Shield, a great read. Andrew's historical account is excellent. In detail it proved without any doubt that Western anti communists extremely overestimated the Soviets military and economic strength. The book completely shot out the belief during the Cold War that the Soviet nuclear missle technology was superior to ours, a myth debunked that McCarthy and his supporters quoted as fact.
The book further proved that most of the specific people investigated by the McCarthy hearings turned out NOT to have any part whatsoever in Soviet activities and that the Soviets did not use the methods of espionage suspected and alleged by McCarthy and his ilk. Their fantasies, unlike the detailed accounts in this book on Soviet espionage, were unrealistic witch hunts totally unrelated to traditional Soviet procedures in subversion, infiltration and espionage.

And you use this work as your evidence?

"In detail it proved without any doubt that Western anti communists extremely overestimated the Soviets military and economic strength. "
I note that you have provided not one quote or direct reference from the book....

Why is that?

Could you be a dullard, and duplicitous?

Could deceit be your last weapon?

Could it be that you have never read the tome in question?

Could you be no more than a two-faced mouth-breathing bottom feeder?

Challenge: prove the statements you made in the post with quotes from the book...but be aware, I have it here, have read same, and demand veracity.


BTW, ...

1. Mitrokhin named some rather diverse individual in whom Soviet placed high hopes on the eve of WW II: Laurence Duggan (agent &#8217;19,&#8217; later FRANK) in the State Department; Michael Straight (NIGEL), State Department; Martha Dodd Stern (LIZA), daughter of the former US ambassador to Germany, and the wife of Alfred Kaufman Stern (also a Soviet agent); Martha&#8217;s brother William E. Doss, jr. (PRESIDENT), who had run for Congress as a Democrat; Harry Dexter White in the Treasury Department (KASSIR and JURIST); an agent codenamed MORIS, probably John Abt in the Justice Department; Boris Morros (FROST), Hollywood producer; Mary Wolfe Price (KID and DIR), secretary to Walter Lippman, and Henry Buchman (KHOSYAIN, &#8216;employer&#8217 owner of a woman&#8217;s fashion salon in Baltimore. [p106]

2. &#8220;But for the remarkably lax security of the Roosevelt administration, the damage to NKVD operation might have been much worse than the arrest (May 1941) of (Gayk) Ovakimyan&#8221; [head of NKVD legal residency department]. P.107

3. &#8220;Henry Wallace, vice-president during Roosevelt&#8217;s third term in office (1941-1945), said later that if the ailing Roosevelt had died during that period and he had become President, it had been his intention to make Duggan his Secretary of State and White his Secretary of Tresury&#8230;The fact that Roosevelt survived into&#8230;a fourth term&#8230;deprived Soviet intelligence of what would have been its most spectacular success in penetrating a major Western government.&#8221; P.107-8

4. In 1944, in addition to Fuchs, there were two more spies at Los Alamos. &#8220;The first, David Greenglass, was recruited through a group of S & T agents run by Julius Rosenberg (codenamed ANRWNNA and LIBERAL), A 26-year-old New York Communist with a degree in electrical engineering. Like Fuchs, the members of the Rosenberg ring, who included his wife, Ethel, had been rewarded with cash bonuses in the summer.&#8221; Ibid, p.128

5. &#8220;The New York residency also reported in November 1944 that the precociously brilliant nineteen-year old Harvard physicist Theodore Alvin &#8220;Ted&#8221; Hall, (codename MLAD) then working at Los Alamos, had indicated his willingness to collaborate. As well as being inspired by the myth-image of the Soviet worker-peasant state, which was an article of faith for most ideological Soviet agents, Hall convinced himself that an American nuclear monopoly would threaten the peace of the post- war world. Passing the secrets of the MANHATTAN project to Moscow was thus a way &#8216;to help the world&#8217; as well as the Soviet Union.&#8217; &#8221;Ibid, p.128

6. In November of 1944, &#8220;according to Elizabeth Bentley, there came an urgent warning from an agent in the White House, Roosevelt&#8217;s administrative assistant Lauchlin Currie. Currie reported that &#8216;the Americans were on the verge of breaking the Soviet code.&#8217; The alarm appears to have subsided when it was discovered that Currie had wrongly concluded that a fire-damaged NKGB codebook obtained by OSS from the Finns would enable Soviet communications (which went through a further, theoretically impenetrable, encipherment by &#8216;one-time pad&#8217 to be decrypted.&#8221; The Sword and the Shield: The Mitrokhin Archives, the History of the KGB,&#8221; by Christopher Andrew and Vasili Mitrokhin.p.130

I would be happy to provide further just to prove what a dishonest, fake, fraud, mala fide and despicable sack of bezoar you are.

Truman was President and his administration was in charge during the McCarthy hearings my dear child.
You are a decade off with your "analysis".
Refer to your #1. Why is it that NONE listed by Mitrokhin in the list was on any of McCarthy's imaginary list, lists, or should I correctly call them blank pieces of paper?
If McCarthy had any of that information he would have provided at least ONE PIECE OF EVIDENCE to prove it.
And just like you, all we end up with as usual is cute as a button but nothing else.
But keep on smiling as we love those dimples.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

CrusaderFrank, the standard proof is not found in Mark's research and PC's twisting the evidence. This story has been told already, and it has been told correctly. McCarthy was rightfully concerned about communism then went about it in a way that stole other people's personal liberties and smeared the American flag all for his own perverted glory.

Why do you and PC and the other reactionary hacks here not want to admit that it was the GOP that pulled McCarthy down, not the libs or the Dems? Why is that, Frank, do you think? The interesting thing is that you guys will no more successful than McCarthy in his time, or the George Wallaces in their times, or you wacks in your times. The American dream and glory is so much larger than your sillinesses and desires to run back to the bad old times.

Don't worry, Frank: you will be able to confront your fears in the future, because you are not going to impose your silliness on the rest of the country. It will be OK, old son.

<snip: as much bullshit as PC's>

Address this one quote, old son: "Why do you and PC and the other reactionary hacks here not want to admit that it was the GOP that pulled McCarthy down, not the libs or the Dems?"

No running, punning, or funning. Why won't you admit up front it was the GOP that pulled down your hero?

Communists at State, Treasury and the media fooled the nation into believing that McCarthy was a loon, they practiced McCarthyism on the man who pulled up the rock and exposed Communist infiltration at State. That some GOP Senators went along is totally irrelevant, they had no way of knowing that 45 years later the Communists themselves would admit that McCarthy was correct.

Indeed had Truman not been Stalin's fluffer and allowed investigations at State to move forward we could have prevented any further damage.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Ah, The Sword and The Shield, a great read. Andrew's historical account is excellent. In detail it proved without any doubt that Western anti communists extremely overestimated the Soviets military and economic strength. The book completely shot out the belief during the Cold War that the Soviet nuclear missle technology was superior to ours, a myth debunked that McCarthy and his supporters quoted as fact.
The book further proved that most of the specific people investigated by the McCarthy hearings turned out NOT to have any part whatsoever in Soviet activities and that the Soviets did not use the methods of espionage suspected and alleged by McCarthy and his ilk. Their fantasies, unlike the detailed accounts in this book on Soviet espionage, were unrealistic witch hunts totally unrelated to traditional Soviet procedures in subversion, infiltration and espionage.

And you use this work as your evidence?

"In detail it proved without any doubt that Western anti communists extremely overestimated the Soviets military and economic strength. "
I note that you have provided not one quote or direct reference from the book....

Why is that?

Could you be a dullard, and duplicitous?

Could deceit be your last weapon?

Could it be that you have never read the tome in question?

Could you be no more than a two-faced mouth-breathing bottom feeder?

Challenge: prove the statements you made in the post with quotes from the book...but be aware, I have it here, have read same, and demand veracity.


BTW, ...

1. Mitrokhin named some rather diverse individual in whom Soviet placed high hopes on the eve of WW II: Laurence Duggan (agent ’19,’ later FRANK) in the State Department; Michael Straight (NIGEL), State Department; Martha Dodd Stern (LIZA), daughter of the former US ambassador to Germany, and the wife of Alfred Kaufman Stern (also a Soviet agent); Martha’s brother William E. Doss, jr. (PRESIDENT), who had run for Congress as a Democrat; Harry Dexter White in the Treasury Department (KASSIR and JURIST); an agent codenamed MORIS, probably John Abt in the Justice Department; Boris Morros (FROST), Hollywood producer; Mary Wolfe Price (KID and DIR), secretary to Walter Lippman, and Henry Buchman (KHOSYAIN, ‘employer’) owner of a woman’s fashion salon in Baltimore. [p106]

2. “But for the remarkably lax security of the Roosevelt administration, the damage to NKVD operation might have been much worse than the arrest (May 1941) of (Gayk) Ovakimyan” [head of NKVD legal residency department]. P.107

3. “Henry Wallace, vice-president during Roosevelt’s third term in office (1941-1945), said later that if the ailing Roosevelt had died during that period and he had become President, it had been his intention to make Duggan his Secretary of State and White his Secretary of Tresury…The fact that Roosevelt survived into…a fourth term…deprived Soviet intelligence of what would have been its most spectacular success in penetrating a major Western government.” P.107-8

4. In 1944, in addition to Fuchs, there were two more spies at Los Alamos. “The first, David Greenglass, was recruited through a group of S & T agents run by Julius Rosenberg (codenamed ANRWNNA and LIBERAL), A 26-year-old New York Communist with a degree in electrical engineering. Like Fuchs, the members of the Rosenberg ring, who included his wife, Ethel, had been rewarded with cash bonuses in the summer.” Ibid, p.128

5. “The New York residency also reported in November 1944 that the precociously brilliant nineteen-year old Harvard physicist Theodore Alvin “Ted” Hall, (codename MLAD) then working at Los Alamos, had indicated his willingness to collaborate. As well as being inspired by the myth-image of the Soviet worker-peasant state, which was an article of faith for most ideological Soviet agents, Hall convinced himself that an American nuclear monopoly would threaten the peace of the post- war world. Passing the secrets of the MANHATTAN project to Moscow was thus a way ‘to help the world’ as well as the Soviet Union.’ ”Ibid, p.128

6. In November of 1944, “according to Elizabeth Bentley, there came an urgent warning from an agent in the White House, Roosevelt’s administrative assistant Lauchlin Currie. Currie reported that ‘the Americans were on the verge of breaking the Soviet code.’ The alarm appears to have subsided when it was discovered that Currie had wrongly concluded that a fire-damaged NKGB codebook obtained by OSS from the Finns would enable Soviet communications (which went through a further, theoretically impenetrable, encipherment by ‘one-time pad’) to be decrypted.” The Sword and the Shield: The Mitrokhin Archives, the History of the KGB,” by Christopher Andrew and Vasili Mitrokhin.p.130

I would be happy to provide further just to prove what a dishonest, fake, fraud, mala fide and despicable sack of bezoar you are.

Truman was President and his administration was in charge during the McCarthy hearings my dear child.
You are a decade off with your "analysis".
Refer to your #1. Why is it that NONE listed by Mitrokhin in the list was on any of McCarthy's imaginary list, lists, or should I correctly call them blank pieces of paper?
If McCarthy had any of that information he would have provided at least ONE PIECE OF EVIDENCE to prove it.
And just like you, all we end up with as usual is cute as a button but nothing else.
But keep on smiling as we love those dimples.

For the billionth time.

McCarthy's intel came from State, he was asking that Congress investigate! That's really it in a nutshell. Instead of investigating Communists at State, Communists sympathizers and lackeys in Congress investigated McCarthy!

He didn't even 'name names' until Tydings pushed him to (In order to see which of Tydings Communist friends had been careless and stupid enough to get caught)

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Jake, the reason you haven't posted any of your notorious contradictory footnotes is because you didn't read the book and therefore have nothing to post, right?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The Wait for Jake's Footnote, Day 2.

So far, nothing. Not a single footnote sited by Jake to a book he did not read about a subject he knows less than nothing about.

 

[Gadawg73]

"In detail it proved without any doubt that Western anti communists extremely overestimated the Soviets military and economic strength. "
I note that you have provided not one quote or direct reference from the book....

Why is that?

Could you be a dullard, and duplicitous?

Could deceit be your last weapon?

Could it be that you have never read the tome in question?

Could you be no more than a two-faced mouth-breathing bottom feeder?

Challenge: prove the statements you made in the post with quotes from the book...but be aware, I have it here, have read same, and demand veracity.


BTW, ...

1. Mitrokhin named some rather diverse individual in whom Soviet placed high hopes on the eve of WW II: Laurence Duggan (agent ’19,’ later FRANK) in the State Department; Michael Straight (NIGEL), State Department; Martha Dodd Stern (LIZA), daughter of the former US ambassador to Germany, and the wife of Alfred Kaufman Stern (also a Soviet agent); Martha’s brother William E. Doss, jr. (PRESIDENT), who had run for Congress as a Democrat; Harry Dexter White in the Treasury Department (KASSIR and JURIST); an agent codenamed MORIS, probably John Abt in the Justice Department; Boris Morros (FROST), Hollywood producer; Mary Wolfe Price (KID and DIR), secretary to Walter Lippman, and Henry Buchman (KHOSYAIN, ‘employer’) owner of a woman’s fashion salon in Baltimore. [p106]

2. “But for the remarkably lax security of the Roosevelt administration, the damage to NKVD operation might have been much worse than the arrest (May 1941) of (Gayk) Ovakimyan” [head of NKVD legal residency department]. P.107

3. “Henry Wallace, vice-president during Roosevelt’s third term in office (1941-1945), said later that if the ailing Roosevelt had died during that period and he had become President, it had been his intention to make Duggan his Secretary of State and White his Secretary of Tresury…The fact that Roosevelt survived into…a fourth term…deprived Soviet intelligence of what would have been its most spectacular success in penetrating a major Western government.” P.107-8

4. In 1944, in addition to Fuchs, there were two more spies at Los Alamos. “The first, David Greenglass, was recruited through a group of S & T agents run by Julius Rosenberg (codenamed ANRWNNA and LIBERAL), A 26-year-old New York Communist with a degree in electrical engineering. Like Fuchs, the members of the Rosenberg ring, who included his wife, Ethel, had been rewarded with cash bonuses in the summer.” Ibid, p.128

5. “The New York residency also reported in November 1944 that the precociously brilliant nineteen-year old Harvard physicist Theodore Alvin “Ted” Hall, (codename MLAD) then working at Los Alamos, had indicated his willingness to collaborate. As well as being inspired by the myth-image of the Soviet worker-peasant state, which was an article of faith for most ideological Soviet agents, Hall convinced himself that an American nuclear monopoly would threaten the peace of the post- war world. Passing the secrets of the MANHATTAN project to Moscow was thus a way ‘to help the world’ as well as the Soviet Union.’ ”Ibid, p.128

6. In November of 1944, “according to Elizabeth Bentley, there came an urgent warning from an agent in the White House, Roosevelt’s administrative assistant Lauchlin Currie. Currie reported that ‘the Americans were on the verge of breaking the Soviet code.’ The alarm appears to have subsided when it was discovered that Currie had wrongly concluded that a fire-damaged NKGB codebook obtained by OSS from the Finns would enable Soviet communications (which went through a further, theoretically impenetrable, encipherment by ‘one-time pad’) to be decrypted.” The Sword and the Shield: The Mitrokhin Archives, the History of the KGB,” by Christopher Andrew and Vasili Mitrokhin.p.130

I would be happy to provide further just to prove what a dishonest, fake, fraud, mala fide and despicable sack of bezoar you are.

Truman was President and his administration was in charge during the McCarthy hearings my dear child.
You are a decade off with your "analysis".
Refer to your #1. Why is it that NONE listed by Mitrokhin in the list was on any of McCarthy's imaginary list, lists, or should I correctly call them blank pieces of paper?
If McCarthy had any of that information he would have provided at least ONE PIECE OF EVIDENCE to prove it.
And just like you, all we end up with as usual is cute as a button but nothing else.
But keep on smiling as we love those dimples.

For the billionth time.

McCarthy's intel came from State, he was asking that Congress investigate! That's really it in a nutshell. Instead of investigating Communists at State, Communists sympathizers and lackeys in Congress investigated McCarthy!

He didn't even 'name names' until Tydings pushed him to (In order to see which of Tydings Communist friends had been careless and stupid enough to get caught)

Frank,let me appeal to your common sense and reason as I sincerely believe you have both.
I am a licensed private detective for 30 years. I have investigated over 5000 cases, probably half criminal cases for defense lawyers.
A few over the years there were innocent people drug into these cases by prosecutors, prosecuted and a few convicted. We call that the "shot gun" effect. Many times these folks were found not guilty after spending THEIR ENTIRELIFE SAVINGS defending themselves.
Don't you frown on that Frank? Throw everyone under the bus and if one sticks then fine. Who cares who is guilty and who is innocent? Is that you Franks. I don't believe so.
You do know that was the way McCarthy and Cohn ran their operation, don't you Frank? No one and let me repeat NO ONE is denying there were spies in our government. And I believe you do know there are STILL SPIES in our government as we debate here.
The problem is you want to give A FREE PASS to the shot gun effect of the McCarthy era and accuse 10,000 people to prove there were 100 spies.
And I believe you know better but refuse to admit it.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Ah, The Sword and The Shield, a great read. Andrew's historical account is excellent. In detail it proved without any doubt that Western anti communists extremely overestimated the Soviets military and economic strength. The book completely shot out the belief during the Cold War that the Soviet nuclear missle technology was superior to ours, a myth debunked that McCarthy and his supporters quoted as fact.
The book further proved that most of the specific people investigated by the McCarthy hearings turned out NOT to have any part whatsoever in Soviet activities and that the Soviets did not use the methods of espionage suspected and alleged by McCarthy and his ilk. Their fantasies, unlike the detailed accounts in this book on Soviet espionage, were unrealistic witch hunts totally unrelated to traditional Soviet procedures in subversion, infiltration and espionage.

And you use this work as your evidence?

"In detail it proved without any doubt that Western anti communists extremely overestimated the Soviets military and economic strength. "
I note that you have provided not one quote or direct reference from the book....

Why is that?

Could you be a dullard, and duplicitous?

Could deceit be your last weapon?

Could it be that you have never read the tome in question?

Could you be no more than a two-faced mouth-breathing bottom feeder?

Challenge: prove the statements you made in the post with quotes from the book...but be aware, I have it here, have read same, and demand veracity.


BTW, ...

1. Mitrokhin named some rather diverse individual in whom Soviet placed high hopes on the eve of WW II: Laurence Duggan (agent ’19,’ later FRANK) in the State Department; Michael Straight (NIGEL), State Department; Martha Dodd Stern (LIZA), daughter of the former US ambassador to Germany, and the wife of Alfred Kaufman Stern (also a Soviet agent); Martha’s brother William E. Doss, jr. (PRESIDENT), who had run for Congress as a Democrat; Harry Dexter White in the Treasury Department (KASSIR and JURIST); an agent codenamed MORIS, probably John Abt in the Justice Department; Boris Morros (FROST), Hollywood producer; Mary Wolfe Price (KID and DIR), secretary to Walter Lippman, and Henry Buchman (KHOSYAIN, ‘employer’) owner of a woman’s fashion salon in Baltimore. [p106]

2. “But for the remarkably lax security of the Roosevelt administration, the damage to NKVD operation might have been much worse than the arrest (May 1941) of (Gayk) Ovakimyan” [head of NKVD legal residency department]. P.107

3. “Henry Wallace, vice-president during Roosevelt’s third term in office (1941-1945), said later that if the ailing Roosevelt had died during that period and he had become President, it had been his intention to make Duggan his Secretary of State and White his Secretary of Tresury…The fact that Roosevelt survived into…a fourth term…deprived Soviet intelligence of what would have been its most spectacular success in penetrating a major Western government.” P.107-8

4. In 1944, in addition to Fuchs, there were two more spies at Los Alamos. “The first, David Greenglass, was recruited through a group of S & T agents run by Julius Rosenberg (codenamed ANRWNNA and LIBERAL), A 26-year-old New York Communist with a degree in electrical engineering. Like Fuchs, the members of the Rosenberg ring, who included his wife, Ethel, had been rewarded with cash bonuses in the summer.” Ibid, p.128

5. “The New York residency also reported in November 1944 that the precociously brilliant nineteen-year old Harvard physicist Theodore Alvin “Ted” Hall, (codename MLAD) then working at Los Alamos, had indicated his willingness to collaborate. As well as being inspired by the myth-image of the Soviet worker-peasant state, which was an article of faith for most ideological Soviet agents, Hall convinced himself that an American nuclear monopoly would threaten the peace of the post- war world. Passing the secrets of the MANHATTAN project to Moscow was thus a way ‘to help the world’ as well as the Soviet Union.’ ”Ibid, p.128

6. In November of 1944, “according to Elizabeth Bentley, there came an urgent warning from an agent in the White House, Roosevelt’s administrative assistant Lauchlin Currie. Currie reported that ‘the Americans were on the verge of breaking the Soviet code.’ The alarm appears to have subsided when it was discovered that Currie had wrongly concluded that a fire-damaged NKGB codebook obtained by OSS from the Finns would enable Soviet communications (which went through a further, theoretically impenetrable, encipherment by ‘one-time pad’) to be decrypted.” The Sword and the Shield: The Mitrokhin Archives, the History of the KGB,” by Christopher Andrew and Vasili Mitrokhin.p.130

I would be happy to provide further just to prove what a dishonest, fake, fraud, mala fide and despicable sack of bezoar you are.

Truman was President and his administration was in charge during the McCarthy hearings my dear child.
You are a decade off with your "analysis".
Refer to your #1. Why is it that NONE listed by Mitrokhin in the list was on any of McCarthy's imaginary list, lists, or should I correctly call them blank pieces of paper?
If McCarthy had any of that information he would have provided at least ONE PIECE OF EVIDENCE to prove it.
And just like you, all we end up with as usual is cute as a button but nothing else.
But keep on smiling as we love those dimples.

Where are the quotes?????


Where??

Are you admitting that you are a total liar and have never read the book????


So I was correct as to everything I said about you....

step off, creep.