Sen Joe McCarthy: American Patriot and Hero

[Gadawg73]

"In detail it proved without any doubt that Western anti communists extremely overestimated the Soviets military and economic strength. "
I note that you have provided not one quote or direct reference from the book....

Why is that?

Could you be a dullard, and duplicitous?

Could deceit be your last weapon?

Could it be that you have never read the tome in question?

Could you be no more than a two-faced mouth-breathing bottom feeder?

Challenge: prove the statements you made in the post with quotes from the book...but be aware, I have it here, have read same, and demand veracity.


BTW, ...

1. Mitrokhin named some rather diverse individual in whom Soviet placed high hopes on the eve of WW II: Laurence Duggan (agent ’19,’ later FRANK) in the State Department; Michael Straight (NIGEL), State Department; Martha Dodd Stern (LIZA), daughter of the former US ambassador to Germany, and the wife of Alfred Kaufman Stern (also a Soviet agent); Martha’s brother William E. Doss, jr. (PRESIDENT), who had run for Congress as a Democrat; Harry Dexter White in the Treasury Department (KASSIR and JURIST); an agent codenamed MORIS, probably John Abt in the Justice Department; Boris Morros (FROST), Hollywood producer; Mary Wolfe Price (KID and DIR), secretary to Walter Lippman, and Henry Buchman (KHOSYAIN, ‘employer’) owner of a woman’s fashion salon in Baltimore. [p106]

2. “But for the remarkably lax security of the Roosevelt administration, the damage to NKVD operation might have been much worse than the arrest (May 1941) of (Gayk) Ovakimyan” [head of NKVD legal residency department]. P.107

3. “Henry Wallace, vice-president during Roosevelt’s third term in office (1941-1945), said later that if the ailing Roosevelt had died during that period and he had become President, it had been his intention to make Duggan his Secretary of State and White his Secretary of Tresury…The fact that Roosevelt survived into…a fourth term…deprived Soviet intelligence of what would have been its most spectacular success in penetrating a major Western government.” P.107-8

4. In 1944, in addition to Fuchs, there were two more spies at Los Alamos. “The first, David Greenglass, was recruited through a group of S & T agents run by Julius Rosenberg (codenamed ANRWNNA and LIBERAL), A 26-year-old New York Communist with a degree in electrical engineering. Like Fuchs, the members of the Rosenberg ring, who included his wife, Ethel, had been rewarded with cash bonuses in the summer.” Ibid, p.128

5. “The New York residency also reported in November 1944 that the precociously brilliant nineteen-year old Harvard physicist Theodore Alvin “Ted” Hall, (codename MLAD) then working at Los Alamos, had indicated his willingness to collaborate. As well as being inspired by the myth-image of the Soviet worker-peasant state, which was an article of faith for most ideological Soviet agents, Hall convinced himself that an American nuclear monopoly would threaten the peace of the post- war world. Passing the secrets of the MANHATTAN project to Moscow was thus a way ‘to help the world’ as well as the Soviet Union.’ ”Ibid, p.128

6. In November of 1944, “according to Elizabeth Bentley, there came an urgent warning from an agent in the White House, Roosevelt’s administrative assistant Lauchlin Currie. Currie reported that ‘the Americans were on the verge of breaking the Soviet code.’ The alarm appears to have subsided when it was discovered that Currie had wrongly concluded that a fire-damaged NKGB codebook obtained by OSS from the Finns would enable Soviet communications (which went through a further, theoretically impenetrable, encipherment by ‘one-time pad’) to be decrypted.” The Sword and the Shield: The Mitrokhin Archives, the History of the KGB,” by Christopher Andrew and Vasili Mitrokhin.p.130

I would be happy to provide further just to prove what a dishonest, fake, fraud, mala fide and despicable sack of bezoar you are.

Truman was President and his administration was in charge during the McCarthy hearings my dear child.
You are a decade off with your "analysis".
Refer to your #1. Why is it that NONE listed by Mitrokhin in the list was on any of McCarthy's imaginary list, lists, or should I correctly call them blank pieces of paper?
If McCarthy had any of that information he would have provided at least ONE PIECE OF EVIDENCE to prove it.
And just like you, all we end up with as usual is cute as a button but nothing else.
But keep on smiling as we love those dimples.

Where are the quotes?????


Where??

Are you admitting that you are a total liar and have never read the book????


So I was correct as to everything I said about you....

step off, creep.

Sticks and stones. I fought 6'4", 300 lb.offensive lineman for three years, I have been shot at, beat on, run over and left for dead and have all of the scars to prove it. Call me what you want. This is funny.

The way it always works in America is YOU have to prove your case. You presented your case and I have shot it all to hell and back. And you blame ME for that?
You want quotes? I can give you hundreds of quotes. How about these from your boy Joe McCarthy?
McCarthy on Truman's Secretary of Defense George Catlett Marshall "Marshall is guilty of treason. If Marshall was merely stupid, the laws of probability would dictate that part of his decisions would serve this country's interest" Great support for a man, label him as treasonous that was The Army Chief of State during WWII and Truman's Secretary of State.
Where are the names on thoe pieces of paper Joey waved?
Want more QUOTES sweetie pie? As a result of McCarthy's, your Joe boy, spasms above, Truman called McCarthy "The Kremlin's best asset" and called McCarthy's witch hunts "an attempt to sabotage the foreign policy of the United States".
Need more. Your Boy Joe accuses and had nothing whatsoever to back it up with.
McCarthy claimed the State Department of the Truman administration "harbors known communists as the Democratic Party has been 20 years of treason".
Get the picture Hun?

Again, we require evidence here and you have to provide something, anything, somewhere, someplace to back up your whacky conspiracy theories. Otherwise Delta is ready when you are. They do it your way in Iran and Libya.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Truman was President and his administration was in charge during the McCarthy hearings my dear child.
You are a decade off with your "analysis".
Refer to your #1. Why is it that NONE listed by Mitrokhin in the list was on any of McCarthy's imaginary list, lists, or should I correctly call them blank pieces of paper?
If McCarthy had any of that information he would have provided at least ONE PIECE OF EVIDENCE to prove it.
And just like you, all we end up with as usual is cute as a button but nothing else.
But keep on smiling as we love those dimples.

Where are the quotes?????


Where??

Are you admitting that you are a total liar and have never read the book????


So I was correct as to everything I said about you....

step off, creep.

Sticks and stones. I fought 6'4", 300 lb.offensive lineman for three years, I have been shot at, beat on, run over and left for dead and have all of the scars to prove it. Call me what you want. This is funny.

The way it always works in America is YOU have to prove your case. You presented your case and I have shot it all to hell and back. And you blame ME for that?
You want quotes? I can give you hundreds of quotes. How about these from your boy Joe McCarthy?
McCarthy on Truman's Secretary of Defense George Catlett Marshall "Marshall is guilty of treason. If Marshall was merely stupid, the laws of probability would dictate that part of his decisions would serve this country's interest" Great support for a man, label him as treasonous that was The Army Chief of State during WWII and Truman's Secretary of State.
Where are the names on thoe pieces of paper Joey waved?
Want more QUOTES sweetie pie? As a result of McCarthy's, your Joe boy, spasms above, Truman called McCarthy "The Kremlin's best asset" and called McCarthy's witch hunts "an attempt to sabotage the foreign policy of the United States".
Need more. Your Boy Joe accuses and had nothing whatsoever to back it up with.
McCarthy claimed the State Department of the Truman administration "harbors known communists as the Democratic Party has been 20 years of treason".
Get the picture Hun?

Again, we require evidence here and you have to provide something, anything, somewhere, someplace to back up your whacky conspiracy theories. Otherwise Delta is ready when you are. They do it your way in Iran and Libya.

You lying sack of disrepute....

This is your statement:
"Ah, The Sword and The Shield, a great read. Andrew's historical account is excellent. In detail it proved without any doubt that Western anti communists extremely overestimated the Soviets military and economic strength. The book completely shot out the belief during the Cold War that the Soviet nuclear missle technology was superior to ours, a myth debunked that McCarthy and his supporters quoted as fact."


Where are the quotes?????


Where??

Are you admitting that you are a total liar and have never read the book????


Now you babble some more drivel....


"In detail it proved without any doubt..."

Where????

You never read the book, did you????

Putrid prevaricator...

everything you say is counterfeit, isn't it....

makes quite the fool out of Jakey, doesn't it.

 

[Gadawg73]

Where are the quotes?????


Where??

Are you admitting that you are a total liar and have never read the book????


So I was correct as to everything I said about you....

step off, creep.

Sticks and stones. I fought 6'4", 300 lb.offensive lineman for three years, I have been shot at, beat on, run over and left for dead and have all of the scars to prove it. Call me what you want. This is funny.

The way it always works in America is YOU have to prove your case. You presented your case and I have shot it all to hell and back. And you blame ME for that?
You want quotes? I can give you hundreds of quotes. How about these from your boy Joe McCarthy?
McCarthy on Truman's Secretary of Defense George Catlett Marshall "Marshall is guilty of treason. If Marshall was merely stupid, the laws of probability would dictate that part of his decisions would serve this country's interest" Great support for a man, label him as treasonous that was The Army Chief of State during WWII and Truman's Secretary of State.
Where are the names on thoe pieces of paper Joey waved?
Want more QUOTES sweetie pie? As a result of McCarthy's, your Joe boy, spasms above, Truman called McCarthy "The Kremlin's best asset" and called McCarthy's witch hunts "an attempt to sabotage the foreign policy of the United States".
Need more. Your Boy Joe accuses and had nothing whatsoever to back it up with.
McCarthy claimed the State Department of the Truman administration "harbors known communists as the Democratic Party has been 20 years of treason".
Get the picture Hun?

Again, we require evidence here and you have to provide something, anything, somewhere, someplace to back up your whacky conspiracy theories. Otherwise Delta is ready when you are. They do it your way in Iran and Libya.

You lying sack of disrepute....

This is your statement:
"Ah, The Sword and The Shield, a great read. Andrew's historical account is excellent. In detail it proved without any doubt that Western anti communists extremely overestimated the Soviets military and economic strength. The book completely shot out the belief during the Cold War that the Soviet nuclear missle technology was superior to ours, a myth debunked that McCarthy and his supporters quoted as fact."


Where are the quotes?????


Where??

Are you admitting that you are a total liar and have never read the book????


Now you babble some more drivel....


"In detail it proved without any doubt..."

Where????

You never read the book, did you????

Putrid prevaricator...

everything you say is counterfeit, isn't it....

makes quite the fool out of Jakey, doesn't it.

The book is littered with numerous examples of the KGB spending most of their time, and being quite succesful at it, stealing technology from the west for THEIR military systems.
It goes to great lengths detailing those operations. That is what the book IS sugarlips. The book is an account of Soviet Espionage.
All the while McCarthy and the red scare loons claimed that the Russian technology WAS BETTER THAN WHAT WE HAVE.
I knew Frank had some brains and good sense but this proves without any doubt you are slow and thick in the noggen.
Now why would they spend so much time, $$, resources and lives attempting to steal estern technology if what they had was better than what we have as claimed by Mcarthy?
You CLAIM I DID NOT READ THE BOOK? I have a better understanding of the facts contained in the book than you as all you can do is parrot quotes.
Give it up. McCarthy was a red baiter and YOUR own posts have proved all of us correct.
And guess why Russia bought the translation rights for this book? And guess which language it is that is spelled out in that contract?
And guess why the Russians will NEVER allow the book to see the light of day anywhere there printed in Russian?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Truman was President and his administration was in charge during the McCarthy hearings my dear child.
You are a decade off with your "analysis".
Refer to your #1. Why is it that NONE listed by Mitrokhin in the list was on any of McCarthy's imaginary list, lists, or should I correctly call them blank pieces of paper?
If McCarthy had any of that information he would have provided at least ONE PIECE OF EVIDENCE to prove it.
And just like you, all we end up with as usual is cute as a button but nothing else.
But keep on smiling as we love those dimples.

For the billionth time.

McCarthy's intel came from State, he was asking that Congress investigate! That's really it in a nutshell. Instead of investigating Communists at State, Communists sympathizers and lackeys in Congress investigated McCarthy!

He didn't even 'name names' until Tydings pushed him to (In order to see which of Tydings Communist friends had been careless and stupid enough to get caught)

Frank,let me appeal to your common sense and reason as I sincerely believe you have both.
I am a licensed private detective for 30 years. I have investigated over 5000 cases, probably half criminal cases for defense lawyers.
A few over the years there were innocent people drug into these cases by prosecutors, prosecuted and a few convicted. We call that the "shot gun" effect. Many times these folks were found not guilty after spending THEIR ENTIRELIFE SAVINGS defending themselves.
Don't you frown on that Frank? Throw everyone under the bus and if one sticks then fine. Who cares who is guilty and who is innocent? Is that you Franks. I don't believe so.
You do know that was the way McCarthy and Cohn ran their operation, don't you Frank? No one and let me repeat NO ONE is denying there were spies in our government. And I believe you do know there are STILL SPIES in our government as we debate here.
The problem is you want to give A FREE PASS to the shot gun effect of the McCarthy era and accuse 10,000 people to prove there were 100 spies.
And I believe you know better but refuse to admit it.

Don't take this personally, but you suck as a private detective and don't have the first fucking clue how McCarthy and Cohn ran anything.

You should have some vague, passing familiarity with the facts and circumstances of McCarty's Central Thesis before you accuse him of a "Shotgun" effect.

President Truman prevented Congress from investigating the allegations of Communist infiltration of US State for years and that simmered until Feb 1950, when Joe McCarthy made a speech at Wheeling WV, saying that he was given a list from State of 57 Card carrying Communist at State. In the interest of fairness to them he refused to name them because he had so little evidence. All he wanted was for Congress to take a deeper look at US State.

The Leftists then and now were the real McCarthyites, they threw everything at him and ignored all the facts all to protect the Comrades at State, Treasury, the Federal Reserve and World Bank. Nothing changed in how the Left operates, unfortunately, the Left lost their media monopoly so all they have is spew, innuendo, ridicule and outright nonsense.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Truman was President and his administration was in charge during the McCarthy hearings my dear child.
You are a decade off with your "analysis".
Refer to your #1. Why is it that NONE listed by Mitrokhin in the list was on any of McCarthy's imaginary list, lists, or should I correctly call them blank pieces of paper?
If McCarthy had any of that information he would have provided at least ONE PIECE OF EVIDENCE to prove it.
And just like you, all we end up with as usual is cute as a button but nothing else.
But keep on smiling as we love those dimples.

Where are the quotes?????


Where??

Are you admitting that you are a total liar and have never read the book????


So I was correct as to everything I said about you....

step off, creep.

Sticks and stones. I fought 6'4", 300 lb.offensive lineman for three years, I have been shot at, beat on, run over and left for dead and have all of the scars to prove it. Call me what you want. This is funny.

The way it always works in America is YOU have to prove your case. You presented your case and I have shot it all to hell and back. And you blame ME for that?
You want quotes? I can give you hundreds of quotes. How about these from your boy Joe McCarthy?
McCarthy on Truman's Secretary of Defense George Catlett Marshall "Marshall is guilty of treason. If Marshall was merely stupid, the laws of probability would dictate that part of his decisions would serve this country's interest" Great support for a man, label him as treasonous that was The Army Chief of State during WWII and Truman's Secretary of State.
Where are the names on thoe pieces of paper Joey waved?
Want more QUOTES sweetie pie? As a result of McCarthy's, your Joe boy, spasms above, Truman called McCarthy "The Kremlin's best asset" and called McCarthy's witch hunts "an attempt to sabotage the foreign policy of the United States".
Need more. Your Boy Joe accuses and had nothing whatsoever to back it up with.
McCarthy claimed the State Department of the Truman administration "harbors known communists as the Democratic Party has been 20 years of treason".
Get the picture Hun?

Again, we require evidence here and you have to provide something, anything, somewhere, someplace to back up your whacky conspiracy theories. Otherwise Delta is ready when you are. They do it your way in Iran and Libya.

He had nothing to back it up because he was asking for the power to investigate what the State told him!

You have no excuse to remain so totally ignorant, you're spewing stuff and nonsense that is 50 years out of date and totally WRONG!

 

[CrusaderFrank]

McCarthy outed Owen Latimore, Sol Adler and Lauchin Currie (to name but 3) as genuine spies and besides FDR and Truman, it would be harder to identity more influential people in the US government at the time

 

[Gadawg73]

For the billionth time.

McCarthy's intel came from State, he was asking that Congress investigate! That's really it in a nutshell. Instead of investigating Communists at State, Communists sympathizers and lackeys in Congress investigated McCarthy!

He didn't even 'name names' until Tydings pushed him to (In order to see which of Tydings Communist friends had been careless and stupid enough to get caught)

Frank,let me appeal to your common sense and reason as I sincerely believe you have both.
I am a licensed private detective for 30 years. I have investigated over 5000 cases, probably half criminal cases for defense lawyers.
A few over the years there were innocent people drug into these cases by prosecutors, prosecuted and a few convicted. We call that the "shot gun" effect. Many times these folks were found not guilty after spending THEIR ENTIRELIFE SAVINGS defending themselves.
Don't you frown on that Frank? Throw everyone under the bus and if one sticks then fine. Who cares who is guilty and who is innocent? Is that you Franks. I don't believe so.
You do know that was the way McCarthy and Cohn ran their operation, don't you Frank? No one and let me repeat NO ONE is denying there were spies in our government. And I believe you do know there are STILL SPIES in our government as we debate here.
The problem is you want to give A FREE PASS to the shot gun effect of the McCarthy era and accuse 10,000 people to prove there were 100 spies.
And I believe you know better but refuse to admit it.

Don't take this personally, but you suck as a private detective and don't have the first fucking clue how McCarthy and Cohn ran anything.

You should have some vague, passing familiarity with the facts and circumstances of McCarty's Central Thesis before you accuse him of a "Shotgun" effect.

President Truman prevented Congress from investigating the allegations of Communist infiltration of US State for years and that simmered until Feb 1950, when Joe McCarthy made a speech at Wheeling WV, saying that he was given a list from State of 57 Card carrying Communist at State. In the interest of fairness to them he refused to name them because he had so little evidence. All he wanted was for Congress to take a deeper look at US State.

The Leftists then and now were the real McCarthyites, they threw everything at him and ignored all the facts all to protect the Comrades at State, Treasury, the Federal Reserve and World Bank. Nothing changed in how the Left operates, unfortunately, the Left lost their media monopoly so all they have is spew, innuendo, ridicule and outright nonsense.

Are you claiming that everyone McCarthy drug before his committee was guilty of being a communist? HAHAHAHA, you should know better Frank.
"Don't take this personally but you suck as a private detective" Frank.
LOL, what about that is not personal Frank?
But ok, I like those rules.
"All he wanted was for Congress to take a deeper look at State" Frank.
Yeah, sure right Frank. All those Hollywood producers, writers and actors were in the State Department.
And you would want Congress, the leak Capital of the world to conduct our internal espionage?
You are a buffoon and a dumbass prick Frank but don't take it personal old boy.
Would not want you on a jury. You are gullible and naive as hell.

 

[JakeStarkey]

<snip: nothing worthwhile from this hack>

you step off, creep. You have twisted the facts to your sick philosophy. Many, many people were hurt by that bastard, and you have not been able to refute that. Where were all the commies he said were here, there, and under your bed? The footnotes are twisted out of shape from the events and the logical conclusions. Mark Rochelle is a hack, and you are a worse one for supporting him.

You two are obviously 'good' for each other, aren't you, sweetie.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Frank,let me appeal to your common sense and reason as I sincerely believe you have both.
I am a licensed private detective for 30 years. I have investigated over 5000 cases, probably half criminal cases for defense lawyers.
A few over the years there were innocent people drug into these cases by prosecutors, prosecuted and a few convicted. We call that the "shot gun" effect. Many times these folks were found not guilty after spending THEIR ENTIRELIFE SAVINGS defending themselves.
Don't you frown on that Frank? Throw everyone under the bus and if one sticks then fine. Who cares who is guilty and who is innocent? Is that you Franks. I don't believe so.
You do know that was the way McCarthy and Cohn ran their operation, don't you Frank? No one and let me repeat NO ONE is denying there were spies in our government. And I believe you do know there are STILL SPIES in our government as we debate here.
The problem is you want to give A FREE PASS to the shot gun effect of the McCarthy era and accuse 10,000 people to prove there were 100 spies.
And I believe you know better but refuse to admit it.

Don't take this personally, but you suck as a private detective and don't have the first fucking clue how McCarthy and Cohn ran anything.

You should have some vague, passing familiarity with the facts and circumstances of McCarty's Central Thesis before you accuse him of a "Shotgun" effect.

President Truman prevented Congress from investigating the allegations of Communist infiltration of US State for years and that simmered until Feb 1950, when Joe McCarthy made a speech at Wheeling WV, saying that he was given a list from State of 57 Card carrying Communist at State. In the interest of fairness to them he refused to name them because he had so little evidence. All he wanted was for Congress to take a deeper look at US State.

The Leftists then and now were the real McCarthyites, they threw everything at him and ignored all the facts all to protect the Comrades at State, Treasury, the Federal Reserve and World Bank. Nothing changed in how the Left operates, unfortunately, the Left lost their media monopoly so all they have is spew, innuendo, ridicule and outright nonsense.

Are you claiming that everyone McCarthy drug before his committee was guilty of being a communist? HAHAHAHA, you should know better Frank.
"Don't take this personally but you suck as a private detective" Frank.
LOL, what about that is not personal Frank?
But ok, I like those rules.
"All he wanted was for Congress to take a deeper look at State" Frank.
Yeah, sure right Frank. All those Hollywood producers, writers and actors were in the State Department.
And you would want Congress, the leak Capital of the world to conduct our internal espionage?
You are a buffoon and a dumbass prick Frank but don't take it personal old boy.
Would not want you on a jury. You are gullible and naive as hell.

See what I mean about you sucking and not having a clue?

McCarthy was focused on Soviet infiltration at US State and had NOTHING TO DO WITH ZERO MOSTEL or Hollywood Producers.

You got duped, which happens sometimes so there's no shame in it. But after being told repeatedly you got duped and never bothering to take another look, well, shame on you.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

<snip: nothing worthwhile from this hack>

you step off, creep. You have twisted the facts to your sick philosophy. Many, many people were hurt by that bastard, and you have not been able to refute that. Where were all the commies he said were here, there, and under your bed? The footnotes are twisted out of shape from the events and the logical conclusions. Mark Rochelle is a hack, and you are a worse one for supporting him.

You two are obviously 'good' for each other, aren't you, sweetie.

Day 3: Still no Footnotes.

Name One Person hurt by that bastard.

Just One.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Don't have to play with the footnotes because they do not support what Mark says. We would have to bring in quite a few other works that refute. I have tried mentioning a few, and you all say, "no". Doesn't matter, CF. You guys are cranks, simple and pure. You twist the facts to fit the philosophy. The rest of the world knows that, and the 6 of you who disagree don't count. Let's say it again: your opinion doesn't count because you can't support it.

 

[HUGGY]

Frankie... For the love of GOD!!!! What is your POINT??? What end game do you have a glimmer of achieving? So a guy wrote a friggin book...So What? Maybe he discovered some info that was disregarded. So What? Obviously HIS point was to rile up people like yourself. McCarthy's legacy is already written. IT'S OVER!!!! No politicians mark on history is written they way they would prefer it. NO ONE'S

Back then it was considered bad form to out right lie unlike today when lying is considered some kind of a sport.

Sure there were some subversive communists in our country. AND I'm sure some of them were placed by the USSR ... Everyone did that!!! You don't think we had plants in the USSR?

The biggest problem of the day was that people were not very sophisticated. People took the governments word for just about everything. That's the real reason why the commies had some small success. Nobody questioned anyone in positions of relative power. That attitude was born of the effort and one-ness of purpose in WWII.

MY POINT is that some author cannot pull McCarthy's reputation out of the past because no matter what some self serving soviet spy said looking at it in today's enlightened environment is totally out of context. Eisenhower hated McCarthy. Eisenhower was the best informed man on the planet at the time. Even though I was technically "There" , I was a child so my best witness is to the "way" things were more than specific hidden facts about McCarthy. You have no idea "How things were" back then. People performed rediculous dog and pony shows like "Duck and Cover" without question. Commies had no chance of "taking over". The ones spying just needed found out by the FBI and prosecuted for treason. McCarthy's little "show" was way over the top, mean spirited and un-American and he paid for it. It really is that simple. There was no need for his public hearings on un American activities. It should have been done in closed doors and handled professionally. It was not..it started a bad trend .. because of well meaning but phoneyover the top "patriotism" it got way out of hand. Many people DID get hurt. Many people were whipped up into a frenzy for no worthy pupose. This morbid 60 years after the fact autopsy you are trying to sell is crap!.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Marcellus, you are equating Solzhenitsyn with McCarthy. Your posting above does not support that. Please post more.

 

[Trajan]

Joe McCarthy the hero: Who cares about all the innocent lives he ruined!

He saved us from the evil of Dalton Trumbo, Ring Lardner, and Paul Robeson.

Dalton Trumbo was a member of the cpusa, Ring was 'privately' a communist and Robeson was publicly condemned by the NAACP ( his situation was problematic at best I think he may have gotten hosed)... ....you know that, right?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Joe McCarthy the hero: Who cares about all the innocent lives he ruined!

He saved us from the evil of Dalton Trumbo, Ring Lardner, and Paul Robeson.

Dalton Trumbo was a member of the cpusa, Ring was 'privately' a communist and Robeson was publicly condemned by the NAACP ( his situation was problematic at best I think he may have gotten hosed)... ....you know that, right?

Oh, and - of course - Joe McCarthy had nothing to do with any of those people. We wouldn't want to forget THAT little tidbit, now would we?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Not personally, CeCilie1200, but, yes, he unleashed a regime of character assassination that injured those people.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Don't have to play with the footnotes because they do not support what Mark says. We would have to bring in quite a few other works that refute. I have tried mentioning a few, and you all say, "no". Doesn't matter, CF. You guys are cranks, simple and pure. You twist the facts to fit the philosophy. The rest of the world knows that, and the 6 of you who disagree don't count. Let's say it again: your opinion doesn't count because you can't support it.

Jake, please site one footnote in the book you never read that does not support the central thesis. Forget "Quite a few" the standard is one.

You have the points correct except that it is the Progressives who are not supported by any facts, none! You cannot name a single person hurt by McCarthy! You cannot site anything contradicting McCarthy's central thesis that US State was infiltrated by Communist spies.

But, please, don't give up! Please keep coming back and pretending you have something valid to say.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Frankie... For the love of GOD!!!! What is your POINT??? What end game do you have a glimmer of achieving? So a guy wrote a friggin book...So What? Maybe he discovered some info that was disregarded. So What? Obviously HIS point was to rile up people like yourself. McCarthy's legacy is already written. IT'S OVER!!!! No politicians mark on history is written they way they would prefer it. NO ONE'S

Back then it was considered bad form to out right lie unlike today when lying is considered some kind of a sport.

Sure there were some subversive communists in our country. AND I'm sure some of them were placed by the USSR ... Everyone did that!!! You don't think we had plants in the USSR?

The biggest problem of the day was that people were not very sophisticated. People took the governments word for just about everything. That's the real reason why the commies had some small success. Nobody questioned anyone in positions of relative power. That attitude was born of the effort and one-ness of purpose in WWII.

MY POINT is that some author cannot pull McCarthy's reputation out of the past because no matter what some self serving soviet spy said looking at it in today's enlightened environment is totally out of context. Eisenhower hated McCarthy. Eisenhower was the best informed man on the planet at the time. Even though I was technically "There" , I was a child so my best witness is to the "way" things were more than specific hidden facts about McCarthy. You have no idea "How things were" back then. People performed rediculous dog and pony shows like "Duck and Cover" without question. Commies had no chance of "taking over". The ones spying just needed found out by the FBI and prosecuted for treason. McCarthy's little "show" was way over the top, mean spirited and un-American and he paid for it. It really is that simple. There was no need for his public hearings on un American activities. It should have been done in closed doors and handled professionally. It was not..it started a bad trend .. because of well meaning but phoneyover the top "patriotism" it got way out of hand. Many people DID get hurt. Many people were whipped up into a frenzy for no worthy pupose. This morbid 60 years after the fact autopsy you are trying to sell is crap!.

You're repeating all the lies you were told for the past 50 years.

If you refuse to read the book, that's not my problem, that's yours. The world has changed dramatically as new facts have come forth. If you choose to ignore them and stay with the fictional Progressive/Communist narrative about McCarthy, that's your problem, not mine.

In addition to the admissions from the Soviets themselves, the authors went through tens of thousands of pages of recently declassified FBI files (my grandfather is listed as "Citizen for Custodial Detention") and arrived at the conclusion that not only was McCarthy absolutely correct but vastly understated the nature of the problem, our own spy program notwithstanding.

Progressives destroyed McCarthy because he dared to pull the covers up on Communist penetration of US State which shifted policy to favor the Communist.

And it matters and matter greatly because Mao took control of China and Stalin took Eastern Europe because FDR listened to genuine Communist spies.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Not personally, CeCilie1200, but, yes, he unleashed a regime of character assassination that injured those people.

The ChiCom invasion of Korea had nothing to do with the Red Scare right?

 

[HUGGY]

Frankie... For the love of GOD!!!! What is your POINT??? What end game do you have a glimmer of achieving? So a guy wrote a friggin book...So What? Maybe he discovered some info that was disregarded. So What? Obviously HIS point was to rile up people like yourself. McCarthy's legacy is already written. IT'S OVER!!!! No politicians mark on history is written they way they would prefer it. NO ONE'S

Back then it was considered bad form to out right lie unlike today when lying is considered some kind of a sport.

Sure there were some subversive communists in our country. AND I'm sure some of them were placed by the USSR ... Everyone did that!!! You don't think we had plants in the USSR?

The biggest problem of the day was that people were not very sophisticated. People took the governments word for just about everything. That's the real reason why the commies had some small success. Nobody questioned anyone in positions of relative power. That attitude was born of the effort and one-ness of purpose in WWII.

MY POINT is that some author cannot pull McCarthy's reputation out of the past because no matter what some self serving soviet spy said looking at it in today's enlightened environment is totally out of context. Eisenhower hated McCarthy. Eisenhower was the best informed man on the planet at the time. Even though I was technically "There" , I was a child so my best witness is to the "way" things were more than specific hidden facts about McCarthy. You have no idea "How things were" back then. People performed rediculous dog and pony shows like "Duck and Cover" without question. Commies had no chance of "taking over". The ones spying just needed found out by the FBI and prosecuted for treason. McCarthy's little "show" was way over the top, mean spirited and un-American and he paid for it. It really is that simple. There was no need for his public hearings on un American activities. It should have been done in closed doors and handled professionally. It was not..it started a bad trend .. because of well meaning but phoneyover the top "patriotism" it got way out of hand. Many people DID get hurt. Many people were whipped up into a frenzy for no worthy pupose. This morbid 60 years after the fact autopsy you are trying to sell is crap!.

You're repeating all the lies you were told for the past 50 years.

If you refuse to read the book, that's not my problem, that's yours. The world has changed dramatically as new facts have come forth. If you choose to ignore them and stay with the fictional Progressive/Communist narrative about McCarthy, that's your problem, not mine.

In addition to the admissions from the Soviets themselves, the authors went through tens of thousands of pages of recently declassified FBI files (my grandfather is listed as "Citizen for Custodial Detention") and arrived at the conclusion that not only was McCarthy absolutely correct but vastly understated the nature of the problem, our own spy program notwithstanding.

Progressives destroyed McCarthy because he dared to pull the covers up on Communist penetration of US State which shifted policy to favor the Communist.

And it matters and matter greatly because Mao took control of China and Staling took Eastern Europe because FDR listened to genuine Communist spies.

This is where you fail. McCarthy was destroyed precisely because as I have tried to make clear over and over there was an unbreakable trust in government and authority and McCarthy was making a spectical of himself and authority. It had little or nothing to do with "liberalism". Now we are really getting to the "point" you are trying to make and that is your obsession to blame all problems on "liberals". Republicans were the "power" that destroyed McCarthy and you will not be able to make history change to make it otherwise.