See we told you.. Mcdonalds is ordering 7K touch screen to replace cashiers

[Ame®icano]

Ohhh, now aren't we the arrogant one to think that a person can't do anything else in life or why would you even add that or go there in your words spoken ? WOW!

Now who is demanding that they get paid DOUBLE for what they do, and how did you figure this out by me saying there should be a structuralized pay scale system set up for each and every job position that would be listed ? A structuralized pay scale system for each position would also let a person know that the job has a beginner level and a top out level, so in this fact alone it would give a person the incentive to want to move or do better soon and/or maybe be satisfied if they decide to stay in the position in life for a while. They may have all sorts of reasoning in which they might have to stay put for a while even though they are topped out in the position.

If you flip burgers in McD for 5 years and don't get promoted or leave, there is slim to none chance that you can do much else, or more complicated...

And how did I figure it out? I red what you said... post 841

Nothing wrong with having a structured pay scale systems for any job title and company that exist out there...

By the way, McD and I believe in most of the companies in US, pay scale is structured. If you start at bottom you got bottom pay. You pay goes up as you climb the ladder.

 

[Ame®icano]

I see that you did respond in agreeing with me that a structuralized pay scale system is needed in each position worked or you wouldn't have said what you said that was embolden in black above. Good for you, but I bet that was hard for you to do wasn't it ?

Oh, I completely agree with structured pay scale and thats what companies are doing. I just can't agree with you that government should have any say about worker's pay in private sector.

 

[Ame®icano]

Businesses count on high turn around in these jobs eh ? I don't think that works to well in most business models, but it may be if a business model has been set up to exploit and abuse in certain ways. Employee's might become abused in such a set up or business model that is set up in a bad way or in which has been set up to do this very thing to them. They better research the job or business first or it could be that they are desperate, and some businesses love this also. So they will get paid what their worth is, and this if they decide to stick around for a while ? Who determines this worth if they decide to stick around a while ? In a structuralized pay system one is paid as he or she progresses in the position, and if there is no structuralized pay system for the positions, then it sounds like exploitation to me, where as we have adults taking advantage of people having to stick around sometime, and so if they do, then they are subjected to abuse by those whom may see this as an opportunity to screw the wounded duck over, and this instead of helping to fix his or her wing in so that he or she may soon fly again.

They are paid what their work is worth to the company.

Who decides what they're worth? Take a wild guess, will ya? I'll tell you who shouldn't decide... a government. Obviously, you'll disagree with me here. Unlike you, I want less government, otherwise I would move to let's say Venezuela.

 

[Ame®icano]

You can't stay a private for ten years can you ? You can however advance in the position in pay check and in rank. I mean you just said one can get promoted to private 2nd class right, so how do you use this in your example again ? Now lets just use the military as an example of joining and becoming a member of the Air-force for one example, now can't you advance in pay and in rank within your same positions as is found within the Air-force or within any branch of the military ? So why can't a person advance in pay and in rank so to speak from say (3rd class hamburger flipper to 1st class hamburger flipper in 5 years), just as it should be structured within a position at a McDonalds or anywhere else in America ? Makes no sense does it that they can't ? I guess McD's can't hire military members under such an exploitative system in which they have going in all of this, even though they may be a huge help to the country if they did structure themselves in a way that they could hire the returning vets who would badly need jobs also in America. Yep count out McD's in the helping America welcome the returning vets home with a job, because they are to busy exploiting the youth for greed in order to worry about a thing like that.

According to 2014 military pay scale you can be private (pay grade E-1) for over 40 years and your pay doesn't change at all.

 

[Ame®icano]

I'm just wanting them to have a pay scale system in each position from start to finish that can be found in an individual position, then there would be no problems. Having it where a company is trying to just pay minimum wages to their workers, and this no matter how long they stay there, and no matter what their positions are (IMHO) is just wrong of them. Not sure if this is what was or is going on, but undoubtedly that is what was or is going on or there wouldn't be a problem right ?

And I am telling you over and over, companies are already doing that for themselves.
If you flipping burgers, you got so much. Cashiers got so much. Managers got so much.
Applebee's may pay their cooks and cashiers more, but they also deliver better product.
I am pretty sure that chefs in restaurants like Saison or Alma are pretty satisfied with their pay.

 

[armada]

computer taking over humans

 

[flacaltenn]

Both Germany and Japan protect their workforce from off-shoring and business visas and their economies are quite healthy.

Both those claims are false.

Neither Germany nor Japan have successfully protected domestic production.

Japan particularly has engaged in massive outsourcing, as labor costs have risen.

http://www.meti.go.jp/english/report/downloadfiles/1-2e.pdf

Germany too has engaged in outsourcing to Eastern Europe since the fall of the Soviet Union.

{They find that, in Germany, the extent of outsourcing among manufacturing industries is higher than among service industries}

The Extent and Impact of Outsourcing: Evidence from Germany - Research Publications - St. Louis Fed

Further, to call the Japanese economy "healthy" is laughable at best. This is a terrible time to do an analysis on Japan due to the havoc from the Tsunami - still, Japan has not had a healthy economy since the 1990's.



Excuse me?

The consumer market in the USA is growing at about 2% a year (which is dismal, but Obama is running things)

The talk of the US collapsing if we stopped destroying our Blue and White collar force is nonsense and is meant to protect upper level wages and bonuses.

The days of button pushers making high wages are over - and will never come back. The myth that white collar jobs are declining is propaganda.

We are in a global economy - it is a matter of fact. The USA has significant assets and can (continue to) dominate this economy - BUT it must be through innovation and creativity. The idea that a union slob with a 6th grade education can push a button on a press for 8 hours a day and live a middle class life is over.

Get a degree in engineering, IT, or business - and you're golden.

Switching gears a bit; we stand on the brink of a revolution that will dwarf even the digital revolution - this is of course the biotechnology revolution. America DOMINATES this field and is poised to reap the economic rewards of these innovations. Of course we have Obama, who will seek to sink the American dominance and socialize biotech under his fascist care fiasco - but IF the leftists are driven back, the USA will be in fine shape for many decades as biotech advances.

Another arrogant space cadet who thinks everyone can somehow avoid the pain by everyone becoming a rocket scientist soon. This is all about a huge dis-respect thing that is now going on in this nation between the classes or it has since gone wrong for many these days in this nation. The problem is that somehow all respect has been lost, and greed is ruling the day now. It's just that plain and simple really.

Where do you get a link between class and ability to become a biochemist. This is exactly the pessimistic view of workers that leftists adore. Aint it?

 

[beagle9]

Both those claims are false.

Neither Germany nor Japan have successfully protected domestic production.

Japan particularly has engaged in massive outsourcing, as labor costs have risen.

http://www.meti.go.jp/english/report/downloadfiles/1-2e.pdf

Germany too has engaged in outsourcing to Eastern Europe since the fall of the Soviet Union.

{They find that, in Germany, the extent of outsourcing among manufacturing industries is higher than among service industries}

The Extent and Impact of Outsourcing: Evidence from Germany - Research Publications - St. Louis Fed

Further, to call the Japanese economy "healthy" is laughable at best. This is a terrible time to do an analysis on Japan due to the havoc from the Tsunami - still, Japan has not had a healthy economy since the 1990's.



Excuse me?

The consumer market in the USA is growing at about 2% a year (which is dismal, but Obama is running things)



The days of button pushers making high wages are over - and will never come back. The myth that white collar jobs are declining is propaganda.

We are in a global economy - it is a matter of fact. The USA has significant assets and can (continue to) dominate this economy - BUT it must be through innovation and creativity. The idea that a union slob with a 6th grade education can push a button on a press for 8 hours a day and live a middle class life is over.

Get a degree in engineering, IT, or business - and you're golden.

Switching gears a bit; we stand on the brink of a revolution that will dwarf even the digital revolution - this is of course the biotechnology revolution. America DOMINATES this field and is poised to reap the economic rewards of these innovations. Of course we have Obama, who will seek to sink the American dominance and socialize biotech under his fascist care fiasco - but IF the leftists are driven back, the USA will be in fine shape for many decades as biotech advances.

Another arrogant space cadet who thinks everyone can somehow avoid the pain by everyone becoming a rocket scientist soon. This is all about a huge dis-respect thing that is now going on in this nation between the classes or it has since gone wrong for many these days in this nation. The problem is that somehow all respect has been lost, and greed is ruling the day now. It's just that plain and simple really.

Where do you get a link between class and ability to become a biochemist. This is exactly the pessimistic view of workers that leftists adore. Aint it?

How come you can't understand that many come from different classes or have come from the different classes in America over time, and this to become what ever they want to in this nation ? First they have to be given the opportunity, and then they should be looked for by those of us whom want to find the best people for the job, and not go by what daddy or mommy has paid to get them in positions in which they might not be suited for, and never was suited for. Training should be available to all classes of people in America, because you never know where that next hidden talent is going to come in and surprise us all from. Hec these talent shows on TV have been showing this sort of thing lately, and so one would think that we would understand this concept once again in America. Corporations and class warfare is shutting this nation down, and is concentrating wealth in ways that is a major problem, but we don't have to do these schemes found under wealth redistribution, but just go back to what worked in the past when things were far better in this sort of thinking in which I'm using in example of.

 

[OnePercenter]

Like every other 'scan and bag yourself', I WON'T USE IT.

 

[flacaltenn]

Another arrogant space cadet who thinks everyone can somehow avoid the pain by everyone becoming a rocket scientist soon. This is all about a huge dis-respect thing that is now going on in this nation between the classes or it has since gone wrong for many these days in this nation. The problem is that somehow all respect has been lost, and greed is ruling the day now. It's just that plain and simple really.

Where do you get a link between class and ability to become a biochemist. This is exactly the pessimistic view of workers that leftists adore. Aint it?

How come you can't understand that many come from different classes or have come from the different classes in America over time, and this to become what ever they want to in this nation ? First they have to be given the opportunity, and then they should be looked for by those of us whom want to find the best people for the job, and not go by what daddy or mommy has paid to get them in positions in which they might not be suited for, and never was suited for. Training should be available to all classes of people in America, because you never know where that next hidden talent is going to come in and surprise us all from. Hec these talent shows on TV have been showing this sort of thing lately, and so one would think that we would understand this concept once again in America. Corporations and class warfare is shutting this nation down, and is concentrating wealth in ways that is a major problem, but we don't have to do these schemes found under wealth redistribution, but just go back to what worked in the past when things were far better in this sort of thinking in which I'm using in example of.

Yeah --- I've heard that whole disadvantaged story before.. But there a BIG DIFF btwn believing your story that people suffer from economic disadvantages that stunt their intellectual skill set and class being a determinant of ability and natural talent. But you went WAAAY beyond that when you said..

Another arrogant space cadet who thinks everyone can somehow avoid the pain by everyone becoming a rocket scientist soon. This is all about a huge dis-respect thing that is now going on in this nation between the classes or it has since gone wrong for many these days in this nation. The problem is that somehow all respect has been lost, and greed is ruling the day now.

Yes indeed. I believe you could collect the WILLING subset of the Burger King cashiers and make rocket scientists out of them. That's the diff between leftist victimhood and folks like me who have a more optimistic view of human potential.

We actually now need to do that. Because making them COMFORTABLE in those menial jobs for life with awful ideas like living wages is not gonna be an option much longer.

You actually tipped your hand when you said --- "First -- they have to be given the opportunity".. No -- First they have to be EXPECTED to learn. And that folks will ENCOURAGE them to succeed. THEN -- they need to WANT TO LEARN.. After all those contractuals -- you can get around to providing or offering "an opportunity".. Its a waste of time to COERCE kids or adults to do anything other than WASTE opportunities if they are not motivated and ready.

As for the INITIAL economic disadvantages of class --- what a child really needs is acknowledgement and encouragement to develop learning skills. And the whole program of LOWERED expectations for inner city and poor kids is an evil hoax. And this is proven time and time again by folks that go into places like Harlem and Oakland and DO suceed in getting the majority to University.. NOT an issue of money.. It's an issue of ATTITUDE and encouragement. With that -- all a kid needs is a library and some goals..

You should rent some uplifting movies that show you it's NOT all about a writing checks and class economics. I suggest "October Sky" ==== if you're fixated on "rocket scientists" that come from poor coal mining communities..

BTW --- as far as RECOGNIZING talents in your comments about talents shows --- TODAY, even the economically disadvantaged dont DEPEND on Sony records or Simon Cowell to find them. The tools for creating, publishing, marketing and broadcasting your music are available to damn near everybody.. Technology has democratized commerce in a lot of ways..

 

[flacaltenn]

Like every other 'scan and bag yourself', I WON'T USE IT.

Guess that's what makes you a "onepercenter" eh?

 

[OnePercenter]

Like every other 'scan and bag yourself', I WON'T USE IT.

Guess that's what makes you a "onepercenter" eh?

Nope, just pro middle class.

 

[Papageorgio]

Like every other 'scan and bag yourself', I WON'T USE IT.

Guess that's what makes you a "onepercenter" eh?

Nope, just pro middle class.

No, you just like people working at slave wages to wait on your fat ass.

 

[SteadyMercury]

I like scanning my own things, over the years it has become sort of a game to see how many fruit/veggie codes I have memorized. I had the real common ones like yellow onions, green bell peppers, and russet potatoes down right off the bat, then moved on to celery/cucumbers/garlic/etc. and now only struggle with less frequently purchased items like habanero peppers and bulk mushrooms.

The only painful thing at the self-scan is buying booze since invariably the person who needs to check my ID is helping an elderly person who is struggling to scan a can of soup.

 

[kaz]

Absolutely right. Jives with the experience I've been thru.. Made MANY chinese friends who were H1B for awhile.. They go back to China and get Chauffeurs and Penthouses and a Govt job to STEAL American technology.. Had to cut relations with one very friend because of that.

But we said the same about the Japanese. And that might not be true about Chinese innovation tomorrow -- if we continue to get stupider at science and tech. But the difference between Japan and China is the cultures. Chinese have been bludgeoned into responding to authority. One client (USA citizen -- Chinese descent) I had in Silicon Valley severely ABUSED his H1B staff. He would SCREAM at them and occasionally heard a few four letter English words as well.

They are NOT ALLOWED to think or innovate in the presence of authority. But in private, they felt they could tell me how beaten down they felt. That could all change. Particularly when they see their good enough to be fought over by Western companies in China trying to hire them.

I'm more worried about US becoming a nation of technical beggars and thieves. Not because authority abuses us for thinking --- but because we dont think much anymore.

Heh... yeah maybe my problem was doing to good a job in training my Chinese teams.

Here's a clue... when they say yes, that does not mean yes they will do something, that means yes they hear you. That one's for free

Yes, anyone working with outsourcing learns that fast, you know what you're talking about. I'd tweak it and say they mean "I will try," but the same gist. Indians are the same. Unfortunately they won't ask questions, they will try and try and do a lot of work even if they don't understand what you want and it was all wasted. You learn to ask questions and put in verification processes very quickly.

Another challenge is they are so hierarchical. This may have affected me as management more than you, you can say. I had one Indian project manager who kept saying yes. Everything was working great when he was working with American teams, he was a bright guy. But when he said yes when I asked for things in the Indian organization, nothing happened. I pulled him in my office and asked him what's up, I said you clearly get what I want, why does nothing happen when I ask you to do something in your organization?

He said he has to follow Indian procedure, he can't do anything with my requests other than relay it to his manager. His manager was on his side well below my level, so it never got up to my level, it was buried in bureaucracy. I asked if he could escalate it. He said he loves the American way, but no he can't, it would end his career.

Then he had an idea, he said when I want something, he can tell me who to go to, just don't mention he told me. Wow, that worked. When he gave me the name of the person with the authority to do it, they couldn't say no to me and it got done. I drove that model for all my teams after that, I asked the people working with me to direct me to who had the authority to do it, it was a game changer.

The bottom line is as you are discussing, culture is huge, and it's different for Indians, Chinese, Mexicans. Though they are all hierarchical, that part's similar.

 

[beagle9]

Where do you get a link between class and ability to become a biochemist. This is exactly the pessimistic view of workers that leftists adore. Aint it?

Where does one get various links established between any new talent that may be hidden out there (not known about), and this in order for the private sector to become aware of various talents that may exist out there in these ways without government help?

I mean is this what you just asked me ? It's like this you see, if a man was to walk up to get a loan from a private run bank, but yet he hasn't had his credit established yet, then who is going to finally allow him that loan in the private sector without this established credit needed ? Who is going to put private capital at risk in these ways ? Not many will, I mean not without some kind of government guarantee given to them or a co-signee to sign for them also right ? Yes guarantee's by the government have been given I think, before the catering to the unknown in these ways is established by the private sector as found in created links for them as needed for such assistance is given.

If people are to be given a chance outside of having someone on the inside in which they might know or vice-versa that a person on the inside might know them, and this without government involvement, then it is very slim that they may be given that chance wouldn't you say ? It has always been considered a huge risk to private capital and it's investment of to go it alone these days, but have they been tricked into this by government over time ? So it is that they lean on government for their guarantee's. There are many more reasons for links to exist in order to assure access always, and if the doors are closed one by one as some are thinking about these days, then isolation starts to build, and people begin to get cut off. Now that can become a bad thing if done in the wrong ways.

Now I wonder what ever happened to on the job training in America without government always being involved ? You know where companies use to look for talent without the governments help or involvement ? You see they (the private sector) trained up some very talented people to do some very incredible things back in the day.

Well I know what happened I think, where as they (the private sector) threw it all on the government (sold their souls) for the guarantee that the government offered them in it all.

The private sector loved this, because it took all or a lot of the responsibility off of them completely, and this when doing business with the employee company relation in this way. The government has since took over the entrance doorways completely for the most part, therefore (swelling the government to become more powerful and huge in this way), and the corps and companies were glad to give it to them also, but it all has come at a huge price to the tax payers, and to these companies now. Why? It's because government now controls access for the most part when it comes to educating the people for these companies, instead of the companies requiring a minimum standard in education by themselves, and to expect only a level that is necessary to further train from, so the company would carry most of the weight in order to assure itself of the talent that is needed to suit the companies expectations without government dictates.

You see the government can use this power as leverage against these companies now, just as they have in the past, and all in order to get them to do just about anything they want or be taken completely over by government if they don't. The PRIVATE SECTOR HAS BECOME FOOLS, AND HAS SOLD ITSELF UP THE RIVER, SO WELCOME TO THE OUTCOME OF THE NEW DEAL AMERICA. The crucial link between private citizen and private company has been severed, so if that potential great bio-chemist existed out there, well the only way the company would know about it would be through the government only, and that is a problem if you ask me. I mean WOW!

Now why did the government on their part do this in America ? Why did the corps and companies give it all over to the government in this way ? Now the government has botched it's job or its uses of this power I think, because it has favored a few groups access over others to be found within certain levels now, and all due to political agenda's. Ok, so where does all this lead to in the end or in the future ? Think about it.

Here is one example of a link needing to be re-established. - Have you ever seen a young person trying to establish credit on their own, especially if they don't have a wealthy enough family member to co-sign for the loan ? It's downright tuff is what it is. Links have to be established to make it all work out right? Now if you will look back through history, you will see that there are some real rags to riches stories in this nation, and it is all due to the links being available for people to exploit such links without going through the wrong people to get anywhere in their lives. Is the government the wrong link, and should companies be working to break that link I wonder ? Should companies re-establish programs to train people up to work again, and this without total government assistance being involved ? How about companies being responsible for 80% of it, and government responsible for 20% ? Would that begin to roll back government and their role in this ? Would it begin to get the proper people in the right positions again in life, and this instead of the use of quota's and things like that in which the government has used to the detriment of our hidden talent still hidden within this nation ?

How come you can't understand that many come from different classes or have come from the different classes in America over time, and this to become what ever they want to in this nation ? First they have to be given the opportunity by the private sector not government, and then they should be looked for by those of us whom want to find the best people for the job, and not go by what daddy or mommy has paid to get them also in positions in which they might not be suited for, and never was suited for. Training should be available to all classes of people in America by government and the private sector, because you never know where that next hidden talent is going to come in and surprise us all from. Hec these talent shows on TV have been showing this sort of thing lately, and so one would think that we would understand this concept once again in America. Corporations, government maleficence, and class warfare is shutting this nation down, and is now concentrating wealth in ways that is a major problem, but so we don't have to do these schemes found under wealth redistribution, but just go back to what worked in the past when things were far better in this sort of thinking in which I'm using in example of.

Yes indeed. I believe you could collect the WILLING subset of the Burger King cashiers and make rocket scientists out of them. That's the diff between leftist victimhood and folks like me who have a more optimistic view of human potential.

We actually now need to do that. Because making them COMFORTABLE in those menial jobs for life with awful ideas like living wages is not gonna be an option much longer. You actually tipped your hand when you said --- "First -- they have to be given the opportunity".. No -- First they have to be EXPECTED to learn. And that folks will ENCOURAGE them to succeed. THEN -- they need to WANT TO LEARN.. After all those contractuals -- you can get around to providing or offering "an opportunity".. Its a waste of time to COERCE kids or adults to do anything other than WASTE opportunities if they are not motivated and ready.

Who should be the encouraging officials, I mean should it be the private sector or the government yielding the most power in these things ?

As for the INITIAL economic disadvantages of class --- what a child really needs is acknowledgement and encouragement to develop learning skills. And the whole program of LOWERED expectations for inner city and poor kids is an evil hoax. And this is proven time and time again by folks that go into places like Harlem and Oakland and DO suceed in getting the majority to University.. NOT an issue of money.. It's an issue of ATTITUDE and encouragement. With that -- all a kid needs is a library and some goals.

Again who should yield the most power in this encouragement ?

BTW --- as far as RECOGNIZING talents in your comments about talents shows --- TODAY, even the economically disadvantaged dont DEPEND on Sony records or Simon Cowell to find them. The tools for creating, publishing, marketing and broadcasting your music are available to damn near everybody.. Technology has democratized commerce in a lot of ways..

Again after reading all that I said, who should take the lead on this encouragement, training and giving the best access today ?

 

[Ame®icano]

You obviously do not know much about how IBM owns every level of government.
But this has nothing to do with automation.
Automation is good and burger flippers need only be paid what the market is willing to bear.
The problem is that Democrats, Republicans and MNCs have inundated our borders and labor wages have plummeted.

I've done my homework on IBM as well as a number of other large corporations. And yes, IBM does provide a lot of IT expertise and products to government at all levels from local to federal. As do hundreds and hundreds of other corporations enjoy lucrative business with government. But IBM did not start out with government contracts and did not build its success with tax payers' money. IBM, for instance, is India's second largest private sector employer. If you have a quarrel with IBM contracts, it isn't IBM's fault that they got those contracts and there are few companies who would have turned down those contracts. Again look at government procurers who chose IBM for a reason. If there is fault, it is there.

You hate IBM because it does business with the government?

Why then hate McDonalds who doesn't?

I don't hate IBM at all.
I'm simply fed up with people who believe that there aren't thousand of corporations that require government contracts to remain in existence.
If IBM lost US tax money, it's stock would crash.
Same for GE and even thousands of small to medium sized companies.

You're forgetting that government use IBM simply because they're the best in what they do. How many things done by IBM have failed? But, no, they hire some wannabees to design and service ACA website...

By the way, IBM has some 650 customers worldwide...

 

[flacaltenn]

Where do you get a link between class and ability to become a biochemist. This is exactly the pessimistic view of workers that leftists adore. Aint it?

Where does one get various links established between any new talent that may be hidden out there (not known about), and this in order for the private sector to become aware of various talents that may exist out there in these ways without government help?

I mean is this what you just asked me ? It's like this you see, if a man was to walk up to get a loan from a private run bank, but yet he hasn't had his credit established yet, then who is going to finally allow him that loan in the private sector without this established credit needed ? Who is going to put private capital at risk in these ways ? Not many will, I mean not without some kind of government guarantee given to them or a co-signee to sign for them also right ? Yes guarantee's by the government have been given I think, before the catering to the unknown in these ways is established by the private sector as found in created links for them as needed for such assistance is given.

If people are to be given a chance outside of having someone on the inside in which they might know or vice-versa that a person on the inside might know them, and this without government involvement, then it is very slim that they may be given that chance wouldn't you say ? It has always been considered a huge risk to private capital and it's investment of to go it alone these days, but have they been tricked into this by government over time ? So it is that they lean on government for their guarantee's. There are many more reasons for links to exist in order to assure access always, and if the doors are closed one by one as some are thinking about these days, then isolation starts to build, and people begin to get cut off. Now that can become a bad thing if done in the wrong ways.

Now I wonder what ever happened to on the job training in America without government always being involved ? You know where companies use to look for talent without the governments help or involvement ? You see they (the private sector) trained up some very talented people to do some very incredible things back in the day.

Well I know what happened I think, where as they (the private sector) threw it all on the government (sold their souls) for the guarantee that the government offered them in it all.

The private sector loved this, because it took all or a lot of the responsibility off of them completely, and this when doing business with the employee company relation in this way. The government has since took over the entrance doorways completely for the most part, therefore (swelling the government to become more powerful and huge in this way), and the corps and companies were glad to give it to them also, but it all has come at a huge price to the tax payers, and to these companies now. Why? It's because government now controls access for the most part when it comes to educating the people for these companies, instead of the companies requiring a minimum standard in education by themselves, and to expect only a level that is necessary to further train from, so the company would carry most of the weight in order to assure itself of the talent that is needed to suit the companies expectations without government dictates.

You see the government can use this power as leverage against these companies now, just as they have in the past, and all in order to get them to do just about anything they want or be taken completely over by government if they don't. The PRIVATE SECTOR HAS BECOME FOOLS, AND HAS SOLD ITSELF UP THE RIVER, SO WELCOME TO THE OUTCOME OF THE NEW DEAL AMERICA. The crucial link between private citizen and private company has been severed, so if that potential great bio-chemist existed out there, well the only way the company would know about it would be through the government only, and that is a problem if you ask me. I mean WOW!

Now why did the government on their part do this in America ? Why did the corps and companies give it all over to the government in this way ? Now the government has botched it's job or its uses of this power I think, because it has favored a few groups access over others to be found within certain levels now, and all due to political agenda's. Ok, so where does all this lead to in the end or in the future ? Think about it.

Here is one example of a link needing to be re-established. - Have you ever seen a young person trying to establish credit on their own, especially if they don't have a wealthy enough family member to co-sign for the loan ? It's downright tuff is what it is. Links have to be established to make it all work out right? Now if you will look back through history, you will see that there are some real rags to riches stories in this nation, and it is all due to the links being available for people to exploit such links without going through the wrong people to get anywhere in their lives. Is the government the wrong link, and should companies be working to break that link I wonder ? Should companies re-establish programs to train people up to work again, and this without total government assistance being involved ? How about companies being responsible for 80% of it, and government responsible for 20% ? Would that begin to roll back government and their role in this ? Would it begin to get the proper people in the right positions again in life, and this instead of the use of quota's and things like that in which the government has used to the detriment of our hidden talent still hidden within this nation ?

How come you can't understand that many come from different classes or have come from the different classes in America over time, and this to become what ever they want to in this nation ? First they have to be given the opportunity by the private sector not government, and then they should be looked for by those of us whom want to find the best people for the job, and not go by what daddy or mommy has paid to get them also in positions in which they might not be suited for, and never was suited for. Training should be available to all classes of people in America by government and the private sector, because you never know where that next hidden talent is going to come in and surprise us all from. Hec these talent shows on TV have been showing this sort of thing lately, and so one would think that we would understand this concept once again in America. Corporations, government maleficence, and class warfare is shutting this nation down, and is now concentrating wealth in ways that is a major problem, but so we don't have to do these schemes found under wealth redistribution, but just go back to what worked in the past when things were far better in this sort of thinking in which I'm using in example of.

Who should be the encouraging officials, I mean should it be the private sector or the government yielding the most power in these things ?

As for the INITIAL economic disadvantages of class --- what a child really needs is acknowledgement and encouragement to develop learning skills. And the whole program of LOWERED expectations for inner city and poor kids is an evil hoax. And this is proven time and time again by folks that go into places like Harlem and Oakland and DO suceed in getting the majority to University.. NOT an issue of money.. It's an issue of ATTITUDE and encouragement. With that -- all a kid needs is a library and some goals.

Again who should yield the most power in this encouragement ?

BTW --- as far as RECOGNIZING talents in your comments about talents shows --- TODAY, even the economically disadvantaged dont DEPEND on Sony records or Simon Cowell to find them. The tools for creating, publishing, marketing and broadcasting your music are available to damn near everybody.. Technology has democratized commerce in a lot of ways..

Again after reading all that I said, who should take the lead on this encouragement, training and giving the best access today ?

Thanks for civil and considered response.. It's rare on public forums.

Your comments center around the NECCESSITY of providing capital to lift folks up once they've been screwed by their class disadvantage. And your 1st resort always seems to be that only government is interested or equipped to solve the problem.. Cutting checks and making loans is NOT the first step to recognizing and developing human potential. The 1st step is to encourage a culture where staying in school and ACHEIVEMENT is valued, EXPECTED and rewarded for a lifetime.

Too often leftists immediately design a solution from 3000 miles away without KNOWING what the problems are. I pointed out to another poster -- that implementing a "living wage" is a SURE-FIRED WAY TO RAISE the H.S. drop-out rate. (for example). Which is the opposite of what we NEED to do to make the American economy RELEVENT AGAIN in the world economy. There will always be the folks who CARE about their education and skills and the folks that "just want a job". PREVIOUSLY --- "just having a job" was an OK alternative.. But not for much longer.

So the FIRST STEP is something like "self-declaration" -- where you FIND the folks who WANT to get a GED or a Comm College AA or learn a trade. I've got to tell ya Beagle -- the programs for THAT are already pretty much in place. And I'd be willing to support those folks with BOTH govt and industry help. Which BTW --- is also ALREADY in place for those goals. Instead of advertising for ObamaPhones and FoodStamps and making them cool.. We should be stressing HOW EASY and economically you can GET a GED or an AA Degree or a Trade diploma..

You will get more "self-declarers" --- if you RAISE the expectations early in school life -- not continue to lower them. AND -- you get to parents early and SHOW them that their kids CAN and SHOULD declare to learn skills better than Minimum Wage careers, because they can go to Comm College (even if 4yr is beyond imagination) for virtually pennies on the dollar.

There's triage for the rest.. The "undeclared"... Perhaps welfare payments should be tied to keeping your kids in school. Which would aimed at parents that just dont seem to sign report cards or show up at Parents night. The parents that "dont give a ****" or cant sort out their own problems or addictions need THERAPY. But all this NOT DONE with global check writing, loan guaranteeing frenzies to the "victims" of class.. That's just wasteful and unproductive without INDIVIDUAL triage of their "issues".

There's a line of inner city parents WAITING to get their kids into better schools. You triage them FIRST --- by giving them CHOICE --- yes even the "V-word" in order to overcome their class disadvantage. In addition to " October Sky" and checking out my thread in Current Events about "Optimism About Human Potential" ----- Have you ever watched "Waiting for Superman"??? If not --- please do --- and respond on this thread if it ENCOURAGED you to think about school choice and failing schools differently...

PS.. In most states --- Comm College training was dirt cheap.. You could literally complete a 2 yr AA degree in 4 yrs WHILE working for a couple hundred per semester. LESS with existing programs and subsidies and grants. SOME of that has changed BECAUSE it was UNIVERSAL.. And folks who COULD afford to pay the real costs were also getting artificially low costs.

 

[Indeependent]

I've done my homework on IBM as well as a number of other large corporations. And yes, IBM does provide a lot of IT expertise and products to government at all levels from local to federal. As do hundreds and hundreds of other corporations enjoy lucrative business with government. But IBM did not start out with government contracts and did not build its success with tax payers' money. IBM, for instance, is India's second largest private sector employer. If you have a quarrel with IBM contracts, it isn't IBM's fault that they got those contracts and there are few companies who would have turned down those contracts. Again look at government procurers who chose IBM for a reason. If there is fault, it is there.

You hate IBM because it does business with the government?

Why then hate McDonalds who doesn't?

I don't hate IBM at all.
I'm simply fed up with people who believe that there aren't thousand of corporations that require government contracts to remain in existence.
If IBM lost US tax money, it's stock would crash.
Same for GE and even thousands of small to medium sized companies.

You're forgetting that government use IBM simply because they're the best in what they do. How many things done by IBM have failed? But, no, they hire some wannabees to design and service ACA website...

By the way, IBM has some 650 customers worldwide...

IBM's customer base is large due to legacy and the need for speed.
Nothing can match the speed of a mainframe.
For instance, Citibank needs to process and print 20+ million Customer Statements every month.

The ACA was "developed" by the Private Sector with US Tax money.
The lion's share went to the MBAs who then hired the "Best and Brightest" to actually make it work; this "failure" occurs in private firms all the time because the cost of the "Best and Brightest" is irresistibly low despite their incredibly high failure rate.

IBM developers USED to be pretty good.
Now they just are plain incompetent.

 

[flacaltenn]

I don't hate IBM at all.
I'm simply fed up with people who believe that there aren't thousand of corporations that require government contracts to remain in existence.
If IBM lost US tax money, it's stock would crash.
Same for GE and even thousands of small to medium sized companies.

You're forgetting that government use IBM simply because they're the best in what they do. How many things done by IBM have failed? But, no, they hire some wannabees to design and service ACA website...

By the way, IBM has some 650 customers worldwide...

IBM's customer base is large due to legacy and the need for speed.
Nothing can match the speed of a mainframe.
For instance, Citibank needs to process and print 20+ million Customer Statements every month.

The ACA was "developed" by the Private Sector with US Tax money.
The lion's share went to the MBAs who then hired the "Best and Brightest" to actually make it work; this "failure" occurs in private firms all the time because the cost of the "Best and Brightest" is irresistibly low despite their incredibly high failure rate.

IBM developers USED to be pretty good.
Now they just are plain incompetent.

What a cheezy spin.. ACA was developed "in the private sector" (actually Canada and UK) because the govt has no competence to do such a thing. The FBI was using teletypes and roladexes late into the last decade.

CLEARLY there was hold-ups in obtaining specifications and answers to questions because no govt bureaucrat wants to stick their out or really understands all the operating criterion for project that complex.

NO firm in the private sector could botch a program this badly and get another contract. The UK or Canadian firm had a TRACK RECORD of failures and was still hired.

'Fraid we;re not stupid or desparate to believe all those ludicrous excuses. .