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Second amendment sanctury led to Colorado massacre

bigrebnc1775

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Explain how Civil Asset Forfeiture laws are constitutional but Red Flag Laws are not please.
North Carolina doesn't have civil asset forfeiture laws. They have criminal forfeiture. A prosecutor could pursue civil forfeiture in racketeering cases. But the bar is set high. I will say this most gun control laws are unconstitutional yet in some states they remain
 

SavannahMann

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Civil Asset forfeiture should only happen AFTER a criminal conviction.

Under Civil Asset Forfeiture the Supreme Court has upheld this process. They claim it is not an excessive fine since the owners can sue to get their property back. And it is not a violation of sue process since the owners can sue to get their property returned.


So how is that constitutional but red flag laws are not?
 

Blues Man

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They disregard jury result due process, not the use of the judicial system itself, which is a form of due process.
When a hearing can take placed without notifying the accused and there is no opportunity for the defendant to acquire counsel and face his accusers in court and his rights can be suspended despite not being convicted of a crime or deemed by a mental health professional to be a danger to himself or others then he has been denied due process
 

SavannahMann

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North Carolina doesn't have civil asset forfeiture laws. They have criminal forfeiture. A prosecutor could pursue civil forfeiture in racketeering cases. But the bar is set high. I will say this most gun control laws are unconstitutional yet in some states they remain

They still happen in North Carolina.


The state seems to be seizing a lot of property when it is illegal under state laws.


And constitutional. So let’s try to be honest this time.
 

martybegan

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Not true. You don't get representation

The way they are written, because gun grabbers gotta grab. You should be provided counsel, you should have a 2-3 day turn around on a hearing, and if the flag is found to be unwarranted, you should be compensated.
 

martybegan

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When a hearing can take placed without notifying the accused and there is no opportunity for the defendant to acquire counsel and face his accusers in court and his rights can be suspended despite not being convicted of a crime or deemed by a mental health professional to be a danger to himself or others then he has been denied due process

I agree 100%, which is why the gun grabbers lie about these laws. it's just another end run around the Constitution.

There is a place, however, for an actual Red Flag law with concrete protections. We just won't get one from progressives.
 

martybegan

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Under Civil Asset Forfeiture the Supreme Court has upheld this process. They claim it is not an excessive fine since the owners can sue to get their property back. And it is not a violation of sue process since the owners can sue to get their property returned.


So how is that constitutional but red flag laws are not?

Like in other cases, the SC was wrong with regards to civil asset forfeiture.
 

bigrebnc1775

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They still happen in North Carolina.


The state seems to be seizing a lot of property when it is illegal under state laws.


And constitutional. So let’s try to be honest this time.
No North Carolina doesn't

CIVIL FORFEITURE IS NOT PERMITTED IN NORTH CAROLINA

 

SavannahMann

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No North Carolina doesn't

CIVIL FORFEITURE IS NOT PERMITTED IN NORTH CAROLINA


From your link. Your link.

While North Carolina laws are much stricter than those in other states, there is a way that law enforcement can seize property under the law. Local law enforcement and federal agencies are permitted to form a partnership, which allows them to take advantage of looser federal restrictions. The proceeds from their seizures are split between the federal agency and local agency. North Carolina requires these proceeds to go to education, so that police services do not directly benefit from the asset forfeiture.

So how often do they happen in North Carolina where they are illegal?

From my link.

More than 100 North Carolina agencies, including the North Carolina State Bureau of Investigation and the Highway Patrol, regularly process seized assets through the equitable sharing program.6Between 2007 and 2017, those agencies collected more than $187 million in proceeds.7

Were all of those seized assets taken from genuine criminals? We will never know. Because the assets were processed under federal rather than state law, there was no need to prosecute the owners and prove their guilt. Were the assets really used for or acquired through criminal activity? We will never know about that either, and for the same reason. Were all of the proceeds put to good use? Again, we will never know. Because the assets were processed under federal law, there was no need to use the proceeds for public education; instead, the agencies kept the proceeds and used them as they saw fit.



So why are you crowing about the cops in North Carolina being rewarded for breaking state law to the tune of about $200 million since it was made illegal?

Since they share it with the Feds now, that means the cops in NC have seized more than $400 million.
 

bigrebnc1775

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From your link. Your link.

While North Carolina laws are much stricter than those in other states, there is a way that law enforcement can seize property under the law. Local law enforcement and federal agencies are permitted to form a partnership, which allows them to take advantage of looser federal restrictions. The proceeds from their seizures are split between the federal agency and local agency. North Carolina requires these proceeds to go to education, so that police services do not directly benefit from the asset forfeiture.

So how often do they happen in North Carolina where they are illegal?

From my link.

More than 100 North Carolina agencies, including the North Carolina State Bureau of Investigation and the Highway Patrol, regularly process seized assets through the equitable sharing program.6Between 2007 and 2017, those agencies collected more than $187 million in proceeds.7

Were all of those seized assets taken from genuine criminals? We will never know. Because the assets were processed under federal rather than state law, there was no need to prosecute the owners and prove their guilt. Were the assets really used for or acquired through criminal activity? We will never know about that either, and for the same reason. Were all of the proceeds put to good use? Again, we will never know. Because the assets were processed under federal law, there was no need to use the proceeds for public education; instead, the agencies kept the proceeds and used them as they saw fit.



So why are you crowing about the cops in North Carolina being rewarded for breaking state law to the tune of about $200 million since it was made illegal?

Since they share it with the Feds now, that means the cops in NC have seized more than $400 million.
From my link I placed in bold
Civil forfeitures are not permitted in North Carolina. The only way property can be ceased is if the property was part of the crime.
 

SavannahMann

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From my link I placed in bold
Civil forfeitures are not permitted in North Carolina. The only way property can be ceased is if the property was part of the crime.

Read the rest of the page Scooter and see what else is said. They do it but under Federal Law. The State and Local cops are still doing it.
 

bigrebnc1775

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Read the rest of the page Scooter and see what else is said. They do it but under Federal Law. The State and Local cops are still doing it.
I don't have to read it civil forfeiture is not permitted in my state.
 

sparky

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The irony of the one and only constitutional amendment that's keep us free from oppressors like ENGLAND for over 2 1/2 centuries , being scrutinized by an Englishman who's country would all be goosestepping to Das Lied der Deutschen without our being heavily armed is rather an obnoxious sentiment

thx

~S~
 

SavannahMann

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I don't have to read it civil forfeiture is not permitted in my state.

You won’t read the links you post that prove you are wrong.

You are an absolute idiot.

 

bigrebnc1775

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SavannahMann

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It's not permitted only criminal forfeiture is allowed

Read your own link. It describes how they are still doing Civil Asset Forfeiture. The link I provided showed 100 different departments are still doing it.

But obstinately you determined you are right even when your link says you are wrong.

I suppose we should be impressed you are able to navigate the internet with such a low IQ.
 

bigrebnc1775

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Read your own link. It describes how they are still doing Civil Asset Forfeiture. The link I provided showed 100 different departments are still doing it.

But obstinately you determined you are right even when your link says you are wrong.

I suppose we should be impressed you are able to navigate the internet with such a low IQ.
You need to read and comprehend what you read from my link.
What does this say?

CIVIL FORFEITURE IS NOT PERMITTED IN NORTH CAROLINA

Screenshot_20221129-202436.png

 

Bob Blaylock

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SavannahMann

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SavannahMann

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Both are blatantly unconstitutional.

The Supreme Court has upheld Civil Asset Forfeiture. It is being done in all fifty states all the time.

The last challenge resulted in a unanimous Court upholding the constitutionality of the laws.
 

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