Scott Campbell Films Police Shooting At Occupy Oakland

[Intense]

theDoctorisIn, Where the OWS has responsibility, is in adhering to Nonviolence, and not letting the Crazies Hi-Jack the Demonstrations. They should be doing Daily Seminars on proper conduct, the do's and don't s.
Think of it more as their good name being on show.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

theDoctorisIn, Where the OWS has responsibility, is in adhering to Nonviolence, and not letting the Crazies Hi-Jack the Demonstrations. They should be doing Daily Seminars on proper conduct, the do's and don't s.
Think of it more as their good name being on show.

Well, that's the thing. There are "daily seminars" on proper conduct. There are plenty of people at these protests telling these morons to knock it off.

And then there are assholes who don't listen, because they're "anarchists", and they don't follow the rules.

 

[Charles_Main]

1.) OWS protesters don't think that "Obama is going to fix everything". They're protesting against him too.

2.) None of the OWS protesters want an "All Powerful Government". As Conservative Law-and-order types love to point out, a lot of these protesters are anarchists.

The only thing Anarchy does is set the stage for Totalitarian Rule.

People for the most part don't do well with Chaos. Chaos is a phase, nothing more.

I don't disagree with you, and I think the "anarchists" at the OWS protests are some of the dumbest people there. But that doesn't change the fact that your claims that the OWS protesters are for an "All Powerful Government" and think "Obama is going to fix everything" are pure fantasy.

They may not think they are for an All powerful Government, but the things they are for usually end up requiring an All Powerful Government to provide them.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

The only thing Anarchy does is set the stage for Totalitarian Rule.

People for the most part don't do well with Chaos. Chaos is a phase, nothing more.

I don't disagree with you, and I think the "anarchists" at the OWS protests are some of the dumbest people there. But that doesn't change the fact that your claims that the OWS protesters are for an "All Powerful Government" and think "Obama is going to fix everything" are pure fantasy.

They may not think they are for an All powerful Government, but the things they are for usually end up requiring an All Powerful Government to provide them.

Like what?

 

[Intense]

I don't disagree with you, and I think the "anarchists" at the OWS protests are some of the dumbest people there. But that doesn't change the fact that your claims that the OWS protesters are for an "All Powerful Government" and think "Obama is going to fix everything" are pure fantasy.

I'm not claiming that the OWS is for or against anything. The Protestors are too diverse. I'm claiming that Statist Progressiveness is Tyranny. Soft or hard is only a matter of circumstance. Anarchist's are not necessarily dumb, they just don't like authority obstructing their will, good or evil. The first rule of Anarchy is there are no rules, Anarchy is very Arbitrary, backed by force or threat of force. That's a characteristic, not a rule.

I'm not claiming that anarchists are necessarily dumb, in fact I consider myself a sort of anarchist. But those anarchists? The ones throwing molotovs and acting like morons? They're dumb.

What is your definition of "Statist Progressive"?

I've got a Thread on it.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/187181-classic-liberalism-v-s-progressivism.html

Basically, from my perspective, Classic Liberalism is Rooted on Unalienable Right's. Championing Conscience, Individual Liberty, Individualism, Witness, Voice, Speech, Property Rights, for both Rich and Poor, Impartial Justice. The Principle under which Government and Laws are Established, takes precedent over the Mechanism of Government and Law. It is Governments obligation to come into compliance with the Establishment, Service and Administration of Justice.

Progressive Statism is about Centralized Government Control. The only thing it knows is to grow in power and scope. The End justifies the Means.
Progressive Statism requires the Sacrifice of Conscience, Property, Speech, Rights, when they come into conflict with the agenda of the State, the hive, the collective. Sadly when Self Identity, Conscience is sacrificed, tainted, perspective is lost.

 

[Intense]

I don't disagree with you, and I think the "anarchists" at the OWS protests are some of the dumbest people there. But that doesn't change the fact that your claims that the OWS protesters are for an "All Powerful Government" and think "Obama is going to fix everything" are pure fantasy.

They may not think they are for an All powerful Government, but the things they are for usually end up requiring an All Powerful Government to provide them.

Like what?

You need to separate Leadership from Rank and File.

 

[Intense]

theDoctorisIn, Where the OWS has responsibility, is in adhering to Nonviolence, and not letting the Crazies Hi-Jack the Demonstrations. They should be doing Daily Seminars on proper conduct, the do's and don't s.
Think of it more as their good name being on show.

Well, that's the thing. There are "daily seminars" on proper conduct. There are plenty of people at these protests telling these morons to knock it off.

And then there are assholes who don't listen, because they're "anarchists", and they don't follow the rules.

I don't know if you have seen "Battle for Seattle", the Movie. Good lessons in it.


It's been over 25 Years since I've been in a Demonstration or done Civil Disobedience, we had a strong code back then. Even dissociating from elements that were troublesome. Don't protect them from Prosecution. They should either agree to play by the rules or move elsewhere, at least away from the masses. I know it isn't always easy. Them, knowing that they can be identified is a deterrent.

Well, that's the thing. There are "daily seminars" on proper conduct. There are plenty of people at these protests telling these morons to knock it off.

Glad to hear that. It's important to advocate for Civility. These Clowns will seek to use the numbers for cover. Document what you can, and where Felonies are committed, share it Publicly. Part of what bothers me with the Police State Mentality, is making it illegal to film Police Actions, even when the filming works in their favor. That is still selective, but it's bad law. I personally view it as freedom of Speech. Catching someone throwing a fire bomb on camera, crimes in general,serves Justice in a big way. Cameras being there are a deterrent to wrongful behavior on all sides.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

theDoctorisIn, Where the OWS has responsibility, is in adhering to Nonviolence, and not letting the Crazies Hi-Jack the Demonstrations. They should be doing Daily Seminars on proper conduct, the do's and don't s.
Think of it more as their good name being on show.

Well, that's the thing. There are "daily seminars" on proper conduct. There are plenty of people at these protests telling these morons to knock it off.

And then there are assholes who don't listen, because they're "anarchists", and they don't follow the rules.

I don't know if you have seen "Battle for Seattle", the Movie. Good lessons in it.


It's been over 25 Years since I've been in a Demonstration or done Civil Disobedience, we had a strong code back then. Even dissociating from elements that were troublesome. Don't protect them from Prosecution. They should either agree to play by the rules or move elsewhere, at least away from the masses. I know it isn't always easy. Them, knowing that they can be identified is a deterrent.

Well, that's the thing. There are "daily seminars" on proper conduct. There are plenty of people at these protests telling these morons to knock it off.

Glad to hear that. It's important to advocate for Civility. These Clowns will seek to use the numbers for cover. Document what you can, and where Felonies are committed, share it Publicly. Part of what bothers me with the Police State Mentality, is making it illegal to film Police Actions, even when the filming works in their favor. That is still selective, but it's bad law. I personally view it as freedom of Speech. Catching someone throwing a fire bomb on camera, crimes in general,serves Justice in a big way. Cameras being there are a deterrent to wrongful behavior on all sides.

I agree. It's not easy, though.

 

[Charles_Main]

I don't disagree with you, and I think the "anarchists" at the OWS protests are some of the dumbest people there. But that doesn't change the fact that your claims that the OWS protesters are for an "All Powerful Government" and think "Obama is going to fix everything" are pure fantasy.

They may not think they are for an All powerful Government, but the things they are for usually end up requiring an All Powerful Government to provide them.

Like what?

When ever you try and put to much of the Burden on one group People, so that others can have more. You tend to get a lot of Resistance. Their More Socialist Ideas would never happen in America through the Ballot Box, Americans would reject them. So the only way they could ever get what they really want is through some sort of Authoritarian take over of the Country.

I am talking of course about the most Radical among OWS, not the average Protestor.

 

[Charles_Main]

Well, that's the thing. There are "daily seminars" on proper conduct. There are plenty of people at these protests telling these morons to knock it off.

And then there are assholes who don't listen, because they're "anarchists", and they don't follow the rules.

I don't know if you have seen "Battle for Seattle", the Movie. Good lessons in it.


It's been over 25 Years since I've been in a Demonstration or done Civil Disobedience, we had a strong code back then. Even dissociating from elements that were troublesome. Don't protect them from Prosecution. They should either agree to play by the rules or move elsewhere, at least away from the masses. I know it isn't always easy. Them, knowing that they can be identified is a deterrent.

Well, that's the thing. There are "daily seminars" on proper conduct. There are plenty of people at these protests telling these morons to knock it off.

Glad to hear that. It's important to advocate for Civility. These Clowns will seek to use the numbers for cover. Document what you can, and where Felonies are committed, share it Publicly. Part of what bothers me with the Police State Mentality, is making it illegal to film Police Actions, even when the filming works in their favor. That is still selective, but it's bad law. I personally view it as freedom of Speech. Catching someone throwing a fire bomb on camera, crimes in general,serves Justice in a big way. Cameras being there are a deterrent to wrongful behavior on all sides.

I agree. It's not easy, though.

It sure isn't. No matter how hard I try, some completely Clueless talking head will eventually set me off. lol

 

[Charles_Main]

Basically, from my perspective, Classic Liberalism is Rooted on Unalienable Right's. Championing Conscience, Individual Liberty, Individualism, Witness, Voice, Speech, Property Rights, for both Rich and Poor, Impartial Justice. The Principle under which Government and Laws are Established, takes precedent over the Mechanism of Government and Law. It is Governments obligation to come into compliance with the Establishment, Service and Administration of Justice.

Sounds an awful lot like a Libertarian Leaning view to me.

You are right to call them Progressives today. Though that name ticks me off, as if They have a Monopoly on Progress. What we call Liberals today are really not what a Liberal Used to be. I mean hell I am liberal on many issues. However when we talk about the Liberal Agenda now, what were really talking about is Quasi Statist Socialism.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

They may not think they are for an All powerful Government, but the things they are for usually end up requiring an All Powerful Government to provide them.

Like what?

When ever you try and put to much of the Burden on one group People, so that others can have more. You tend to get a lot of Resistance. Their More Socialist Ideas would never happen in America through the Ballot Box, Americans would reject them. So the only way they could ever get what they really want is through some sort of Authoritarian take over of the Country.

I am talking of course about the most Radical among OWS, not the average Protestor.

The percentage of OWS protesters who want to tear down the capitalist system and replace it with Socialism is about equal to the percentage of Tea Partiers who think that Obama's going to round up all the Conservatives and put them in FEMA camps.

 

[paulitician]

The guy was being an annoying little **** but the Police didn't have to shoot him. An over-reaction for sure. This is why i'm very concerned with how our Police are being trained. They are increasingly being seen as oppressive bullies. Ever since 911 this stuff has gotten progressively worse. We are dangerously close to becoming Police/Prison State U.S.A.

 

[Intense]

Basically, from my perspective, Classic Liberalism is Rooted on Unalienable Right's. Championing Conscience, Individual Liberty, Individualism, Witness, Voice, Speech, Property Rights, for both Rich and Poor, Impartial Justice. The Principle under which Government and Laws are Established, takes precedent over the Mechanism of Government and Law. It is Governments obligation to come into compliance with the Establishment, Service and Administration of Justice.

Sounds an awful lot like a Libertarian Leaning view to me.

You are right to call them Progressives today. Though that name ticks me off, as if They have a Monopoly on Progress. What we call Liberals today are really not what a Liberal Used to be. I mean hell I am liberal on many issues. However when we talk about the Liberal Agenda now, what were really talking about is Quasi Statist Socialism.

I lean Conservative, Libertarian, and Classic Liberal. I do believe in Safety Nets and teaching People how to fish. I believe in Government by the consent of the Governed, and am willing to abide by the Majority, within the rules of play. In Matters of Conscience, I believe we Each need to step up to the plate and Testify. The Emperors New Suit. Sometimes it only takes one person to effect change.
Hans Christian Andersen: The Emperor?s New Suit

We nailed it with respect to Unalienable Right's. Everything Else is Secondary.

 

[Intense]

Like what?

When ever you try and put to much of the Burden on one group People, so that others can have more. You tend to get a lot of Resistance. Their More Socialist Ideas would never happen in America through the Ballot Box, Americans would reject them. So the only way they could ever get what they really want is through some sort of Authoritarian take over of the Country.

I am talking of course about the most Radical among OWS, not the average Protestor.

The percentage of OWS protesters who want to tear down the capitalist system and replace it with Socialism is about equal to the percentage of Tea Partiers who think that Obama's going to round up all the Conservatives and put them in FEMA camps.

Wrong. You are looking at the Rank and File, not Leadership. There is a Progressive Agenda that spans Party Affiliation, Big Big Money, and Time. The Marionettes may or may not have a clue as to the Puppet Masters agenda, the Puppet Masters know exactly what they are doing.

Just like the end to Riot is Riot Police and National Guard, the end to Anarchy and Chaos is Total Lock Down, the Totalitarian State. That's why it is so important to think MLK, Gandhi, Thoreau, Madison, Locke, even Christ, which was the root of Passive Resistance.

Give them nothing to hold on to. If you are coming from a place of Integrity, rather than Disdain, and Insult, your witness is better received. The Inciters put the whole cause at risk.

 

[JamesInFlorida]

The guy was being an annoying little **** but the Police didn't have to shoot him. An over-reaction for sure. This is why i'm very concerned with how our Police are being trained. They are increasingly being seen as oppressive bullies. Ever since 911 this stuff has gotten progressively worse. We are dangerously close to becoming Police/Prison State U.S.A.

This. Being a smartass/annoying isn't a crime. Regardless of his views-this person in the video obviously was of no threat, and wasn't breaking any laws. Yet his rights were infringed upon.

Sadly enough though, so many people in the U.S. don't get it that if somebody else's rights are violated-YOURS are too.

 

[ClosedCaption]

WTF is Intense talking about?

What don't you get. All Powerful Government will get you an All Powerful Police State. You think Obama feels your pain and is going to fix everything for you? Wrong. He wants the Reigns, that's all, that and to silence all opposition. WTFU.

Again, what the **** are you talking about? Assume much?

 

[GHook93]

Too bad the rubber bullet didn't hit him in the head!

 

[paulitician]

The guy was being an annoying little **** but the Police didn't have to shoot him. An over-reaction for sure. This is why i'm very concerned with how our Police are being trained. They are increasingly being seen as oppressive bullies. Ever since 911 this stuff has gotten progressively worse. We are dangerously close to becoming Police/Prison State U.S.A.

This. Being a smartass/annoying isn't a crime. Regardless of his views-this person in the video obviously was of no threat, and wasn't breaking any laws. Yet his rights were infringed upon.

Sadly enough though, so many people in the U.S. don't get it that if somebody else's rights are violated-YOURS are too.

Yes the Police were obviously wrong here. No need to shoot the little wanker. He was obviously no threat to an army of Police Officers. So many Americans have been conditioned to never criticize the Police though. Some wont criticize them even when they know in their hearts the Police were wrong. I guess it's years & years of indoctrination. Our Police are not being trained properly. They have moved further & further away from 'Protecting & Serving' since 911. They are now becoming the enemy of the People.

I don't blame the rank & file Officers though. They are being trained to be oppressive thugs. They are now just following orders. And where have we seen that mentality in the past? We are moving closer & closer to becoming that Police/Prison State U.S.A. They're locking everyone up these days. The Prison Business is absolutely booming. I'm just surprised so many Americans refuse to see what's happening. I guess it's all about the denial for most. And that's the saddest part of this whole thing. Not enough Americans are concerned. May God help my Nation.

 

[paulitician]

More Americans need to be concerned with this stuff. Today it's this silly wanker getting shot by rubber bullets but tomorrow it could be you. Our Police are becoming increasingly Gestapo-like. I don't undertand how so many Americans don't see this. Since 911 it's been all downhill as far as our Freedom & Liberty goes.