Saudi religious cops tell women not to use swings

[Gracie]

Swinging on a swing isn't a crime either.

 

[Sunni Man]

By the way, since this is the Middle East forum, can you tell us what is happening in Bahrain, Oman, Yemen, etc. these days?

Silly-Sally if you are soo interested.

Just listen to the news like everyone else. ...

 

[Sally]

Many of them have been canned and there weren't any around until the late 1970s... After the Iranian Revolution. .. everyone was trying to outdo each other as to who could be a stricter Muslim.

New converts often to that as well.

The GCC is nothing like Iran...

Why not get back to us when you can show us some articles about these Morality Police being punished by the Saudi Authorities. Meanwhile, it looks like they are free to carry on.

Read the Arab news.. or VOA

Saudi Religious Police Work to Improve Image

by Cecily Hilleary



In January 2012, King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia dismissed the head of the powerful religious police and replaced him with a reported moderate — a move designed to appease growing complaints about abuses of power by a much-feared group known as the mutaween.

Since then, the new leader, Sheikh Abdul Latif Abdul Aziz Al-Sheikh, has restricted the mutaween’s powers. Even so, many Saudis, especially women, say the changes are not enough.

Hardly a week seems to go by that Saudi Arabia’s religious police don’t make the headlines — breaking up drug rings, arresting bootleggers, admonishing women for what they consider immodest dress. Sometimes the mutaween themselves become objects of ridicule — such as when they shut down a dinosaur exhibit in a shopping mall or banned cats and dogs as pets.

And sometimes, mutaween actions have tragic consequences, such as the Mecca school fire of March 2002, when the religious police obstructed efforts to rescue female students because they might not be properly dressed. At least 14 girls burned to death, generating outrage across the globe.

Historic roots
​​The religious police force is a relatively recent phenomenon in Saudi Arabia. The Islamic fundamentalist Wahhabis of the early 19th century were the first to use a religious police force to enforce religious laws they believed had been compromised under the Ottoman Empire. Scolding and coercing, the early mutaween ensured the public went to the mosques at prayer time, abstained from smoking, drinking, playing music or, in the case of women, dressing immodestly.

Saudi Princess Basmah bint Saud Al-Saud, who now lives in London, goes back much further in the region’s history of religious enforcement. She says that Islamic religious enforcer was actually a woman and tells the story of Shifa bint Abdullah bin Abd Shams.

During the Prophet Mohamed’s lifetime, Shifa worked as a nurse, a healer and a teacher. Later, according to Basmah and other historical sources, the second caliph, Omar bin al-Khattab, appointed Shifa as the market controller in Medina, responsible for supervising all trade to guard against cheating, fraud and other violations.

“She actually used to go to the market every morning with a big stick,” Basmah laughs, “telling men off when they were annoying the ladies or even annoying other customers.”

It was Basmah’s grandfather, the modern Kingdom’s founder Abdulaziz Al Saud, who created the Committee for the Protection of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice — which locals call the Hai’a. She says the Committee was intended to curb illegal trade activity, just as Shifa had done — not enforce morality. She blames the influx of the Muslim Brotherhood from Egypt in the mid-1950s for bringing religious intolerance to Saudi Arabia. Under their influence, Basmah suggests, the mutaween, eventually began to write their own rules.

But aren’t they supervised by the monarchy? Basmah answers, “As time goes on, sometimes you lose a grip on things, like a father and a mother with their children. Every time a child goes to the father, he will tell them, ‘Go to your mother!’ And at the end of that day, that child would never even go to the father anymore, because he would know where the decision-making really is.”

Token reforms?

Ali AlYami, Executive Director of the Washington D.C.-based Center for Democracy and Human Rights in Saudi Arabia, questions Basmah’s assertion that the Hai’a was intended only to enforce fair trade practices.

“Had her grandfather been solely interested in curbing cheating in markets, why not form non-religious institutions with legislative powers and pass laws to make it a crime to cheat and exploit people?” AlYami asks.

He says Wahhabis and the House of Saud formalized their alliance in 1744 with the goal of spreading their strict interpretation of Islam across Arabia. They have been allies ever since.

“The Hai’a is the most powerful means of sustaining the power of the Saudi ruling family. They need each other to survive,” AlYami said. “The ruling family says, ‘You guys, you be the bad guys in the name of God, and when people are in bad shape, they will come to us and we’ll make some adjustment and save them. So they will fear you and respect us.'”

AlYami is skeptical that the new leader of the Hai’a intends any but the most cosmetic reforms.

“Mr. Al-Sheikh, you have to understand, was chosen not because he is a reformer of any meaningful way. He’s close to the ruling family, because he is descended from the Wahhabi movement people. So he is there because he’s more trusted than the former guy to ensure the continuity of the Saudi ruling family, and that’s the bottom line here,” he said. “The Hai’a will be in power as long as the House of Saud rules.”

Ironically, Al-Sheikh believes that the very power the religious police seek to control is the power that could end up battering the Wahhabi-Ibn Saud alliance: Women.

“It is happening already,” AlYami said, citing the so-called “lingerie movement.”

“Women forced the system to hire only women to sell lingerie in stores. And that is creating thousands and thousands of jobs for women,” he said.

As for Princess Basmah, she also believes the solution to dealing with the religious police lies in women. Every woman in Saudi Arabia, she says, should simply take off her black abaya and put on something nice and sunny and comfortable “that allows her to walk down the street and be as free as she can.”

Saudi Religious Police Work to Improve Image

;

The bottom line, My Sharona, is that they are still operating. Can you inform us when there are no more Morality Police to harass these women? I can't believe how the most innocent things work these silly men up. By the way, did you know that the original Sharona who the song was written for is now a successful real estate agent.

 

[Shaarona]

Why not get back to us when you can show us some articles about these Morality Police being punished by the Saudi Authorities. Meanwhile, it looks like they are free to carry on.

Read the Arab news.. or VOA

Saudi Religious Police Work to Improve Image

by Cecily Hilleary



In January 2012, King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia dismissed the head of the powerful religious police and replaced him with a reported moderate — a move designed to appease growing complaints about abuses of power by a much-feared group known as the mutaween.

Since then, the new leader, Sheikh Abdul Latif Abdul Aziz Al-Sheikh, has restricted the mutaween’s powers. Even so, many Saudis, especially women, say the changes are not enough.

Hardly a week seems to go by that Saudi Arabia’s religious police don’t make the headlines — breaking up drug rings, arresting bootleggers, admonishing women for what they consider immodest dress. Sometimes the mutaween themselves become objects of ridicule — such as when they shut down a dinosaur exhibit in a shopping mall or banned cats and dogs as pets.

And sometimes, mutaween actions have tragic consequences, such as the Mecca school fire of March 2002, when the religious police obstructed efforts to rescue female students because they might not be properly dressed. At least 14 girls burned to death, generating outrage across the globe.

Historic roots
​​The religious police force is a relatively recent phenomenon in Saudi Arabia. The Islamic fundamentalist Wahhabis of the early 19th century were the first to use a religious police force to enforce religious laws they believed had been compromised under the Ottoman Empire. Scolding and coercing, the early mutaween ensured the public went to the mosques at prayer time, abstained from smoking, drinking, playing music or, in the case of women, dressing immodestly.

Saudi Princess Basmah bint Saud Al-Saud, who now lives in London, goes back much further in the region’s history of religious enforcement. She says that Islamic religious enforcer was actually a woman and tells the story of Shifa bint Abdullah bin Abd Shams.

During the Prophet Mohamed’s lifetime, Shifa worked as a nurse, a healer and a teacher. Later, according to Basmah and other historical sources, the second caliph, Omar bin al-Khattab, appointed Shifa as the market controller in Medina, responsible for supervising all trade to guard against cheating, fraud and other violations.

“She actually used to go to the market every morning with a big stick,” Basmah laughs, “telling men off when they were annoying the ladies or even annoying other customers.”

It was Basmah’s grandfather, the modern Kingdom’s founder Abdulaziz Al Saud, who created the Committee for the Protection of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice — which locals call the Hai’a. She says the Committee was intended to curb illegal trade activity, just as Shifa had done — not enforce morality. She blames the influx of the Muslim Brotherhood from Egypt in the mid-1950s for bringing religious intolerance to Saudi Arabia. Under their influence, Basmah suggests, the mutaween, eventually began to write their own rules.

But aren’t they supervised by the monarchy? Basmah answers, “As time goes on, sometimes you lose a grip on things, like a father and a mother with their children. Every time a child goes to the father, he will tell them, ‘Go to your mother!’ And at the end of that day, that child would never even go to the father anymore, because he would know where the decision-making really is.”

Token reforms?

Ali AlYami, Executive Director of the Washington D.C.-based Center for Democracy and Human Rights in Saudi Arabia, questions Basmah’s assertion that the Hai’a was intended only to enforce fair trade practices.

“Had her grandfather been solely interested in curbing cheating in markets, why not form non-religious institutions with legislative powers and pass laws to make it a crime to cheat and exploit people?” AlYami asks.

He says Wahhabis and the House of Saud formalized their alliance in 1744 with the goal of spreading their strict interpretation of Islam across Arabia. They have been allies ever since.

“The Hai’a is the most powerful means of sustaining the power of the Saudi ruling family. They need each other to survive,” AlYami said. “The ruling family says, ‘You guys, you be the bad guys in the name of God, and when people are in bad shape, they will come to us and we’ll make some adjustment and save them. So they will fear you and respect us.'”

AlYami is skeptical that the new leader of the Hai’a intends any but the most cosmetic reforms.

“Mr. Al-Sheikh, you have to understand, was chosen not because he is a reformer of any meaningful way. He’s close to the ruling family, because he is descended from the Wahhabi movement people. So he is there because he’s more trusted than the former guy to ensure the continuity of the Saudi ruling family, and that’s the bottom line here,” he said. “The Hai’a will be in power as long as the House of Saud rules.”

Ironically, Al-Sheikh believes that the very power the religious police seek to control is the power that could end up battering the Wahhabi-Ibn Saud alliance: Women.

“It is happening already,” AlYami said, citing the so-called “lingerie movement.”

“Women forced the system to hire only women to sell lingerie in stores. And that is creating thousands and thousands of jobs for women,” he said.

As for Princess Basmah, she also believes the solution to dealing with the religious police lies in women. Every woman in Saudi Arabia, she says, should simply take off her black abaya and put on something nice and sunny and comfortable “that allows her to walk down the street and be as free as she can.”

Saudi Religious Police Work to Improve Image

;

The bottom line, My Sharona, is that they are still operating. Can you inform us when there are no more Morality Police to harass these women? I can't believe how the most innocent things work these silly men up. By the way, did you know that the original Sharona who the song was written for is now a successful real estate agent.

Both Salman and Abdullah are reformers and things are changing at an increasing rate. Matter of fact 60% of university students are women.

 

[Sally]

Reading stuff like this makes me ever so thankful I was born in the USA.
With that said...I don't understand how a woman stays with a man that eventually cut off her fingers for getting an education, or another man that slices off an ear and a nose. They are in the USA now...so why do they stay with husbands that they must surely know will snap at any given time?

I don't know about the one who had her fingers cut off, but the one who is in Southern California is not with her husband. I spoke the other year to an Afghani respiratory therapist who told me he visited her in the hospital. He would have taken her in with his family, but his home was too small. I imagine she is staying with other people while the doctors are working on a imitation nose and ear for her. Every time I would stop in this one store, I would tell the young Afghani cashier that I was so glad she was here in America. This way I know this lovely girl wouldn't have to suffer a similar fate.

 

[Sally]

By the way, since this is the Middle East forum, can you tell us what is happening in Bahrain, Oman, Yemen, etc. these days?

Silly-Sally if you are soo interested.

Just listen to the news like everyone else. ...

I do pay attention to the news, Mr. Cuckoo, but evidently you have no interest in what is happening in the Middle East. I think you get your daily jollies trolling these different forums.

Iranian diplomat shot to death in Yemen - latimes.com

 

[Sunni Man]

I do pay attention to the news, Mr. Sunni Man, but evidently you have no interest in what is happening in the Middle East.

Then why are you constantly asking me questions about the Middle East ?? ..

 

[Sally]

I do pay attention to the news, Mr. Sunni Man, but evidently you have no interest in what is happening in the Middle East.

Then why are you constantly asking me questions about the Middle East ?? ..

Why, Mr. Cuckoo, with your incessant trolling, I wanted to see if you actually paid any attention to what is happening in the Middle East since you are always so busy trolling this particular Middle East forum.

 

[Sunni Man]

Why, Mr. Sunni Man, with your incessant trolling, I wanted to see if you actually paid any attention to what is happening in the Middle East since you are always so busy trolling this particular Middle East forum.

Actually, Silly-Sally you are the main troll on this section of the forum.

Everyone knows it.........

 

[toastman]

Why, Mr. Sunni Man, with your incessant trolling, I wanted to see if you actually paid any attention to what is happening in the Middle East since you are always so busy trolling this particular Middle East forum.

Actually, Silly-Sally you are the main troll on this section of the forum.

Everyone knows it.........

What is it with you two???

Like an old married couple !

 

[Shaarona]

Jeddah.

 

[Sally]

Why, Mr. Sunni Man, with your incessant trolling, I wanted to see if you actually paid any attention to what is happening in the Middle East since you are always so busy trolling this particular Middle East forum.

Actually, Silly-Sally you are the main troll on this section of the forum.

Everyone knows it.........

Oh, Mr. Cuckoo, you really are a hoot. Don't you think the readers are smart enough to recognize a troll like you whichever forum you are trolling?

 

[Sally]

Why, Mr. Sunni Man, with your incessant trolling, I wanted to see if you actually paid any attention to what is happening in the Middle East since you are always so busy trolling this particular Middle East forum.

Actually, Silly-Sally you are the main troll on this section of the forum.

Everyone knows it.........

What is it with you two???

Like an old married couple !

I honestly feel like finding him a Muslim dating site. Perhaps a girlfriend will keep him busy from trolling.

 

[Sunni Man]

Actually, Silly-Sally you are the main troll on this section of the forum.

Everyone knows it.........

What is it with you two???

Like an old married couple !

I honestly feel like finding him a Muslim dating site. Perhaps a girlfriend will keep him busy from trolling.

Like I said before......I already have 2 wives......don't need a 3rd.

Plus it's against Islam to date or have a girl friend.

But thanks for your concern. ...

 

[Sally]

What is it with you two???

Like an old married couple !

I honestly feel like finding him a Muslim dating site. Perhaps a girlfriend will keep him busy from trolling.

Like I said before......I already have 2 wives......don't need a 3rd.

Plus it's against Islam to date or have a girl friend.

But thanks for your concern. ...

Mr. Cuckoo actually thinks that all the readers believe that he even has been married with one wife. However, nice try, Mr. Cuckoo. I am sure there are many Muslim dating sites where a good convert like you will be welcomed with open arms.

As a matter of fact, there are single Muslim people here in the U.|S. who do have a girlfriend or boyfriend and are allowed to date.

 

[Sally]

Jeddah.

Regardless, the Morality Police are still operating. By the way, I would imagine that the university classes will be segregated according to gender. Can you tell us if a world famous lecturer is invited to speak and he only has enough time for one lecture, will the women be left out from hearing him?

 

[Shaarona]

Jeddah.

Regardless, the Morality Police are still operating. By the way, I would imagine that the university classes will be segregated according to gender. Can you tell us if a world famous lecturer is invited to speak and he only has enough time for one lecture, will the women be left out from hearing him?

Many very prominent US universities have branches or programs in Saudi Arabia... and there are 250,000 scholarship for Saudi grad students in the US.

 

[Sally]

Jeddah.

Regardless, the Morality Police are still operating. By the way, I would imagine that the university classes will be segregated according to gender. Can you tell us if a world famous lecturer is invited to speak and he only has enough time for one lecture, will the women be left out from hearing him?

Many very prominent US universities have branches or programs in Saudi Arabia... and there are 250,000 scholarship for Saudi grad students in the US.

I realize that, Sharoona, but that didn't answer my question.

 

[Shaarona]

Regardless, the Morality Police are still operating. By the way, I would imagine that the university classes will be segregated according to gender. Can you tell us if a world famous lecturer is invited to speak and he only has enough time for one lecture, will the women be left out from hearing him?

Many very prominent US universities have branches or programs in Saudi Arabia... and there are 250,000 scholarship for Saudi grad students in the US.

I realize that, Sharoona, but that didn't answer my question.

Some are co-ed others are not.

They have many world famous lecturers.. and classes are in English.

 

[toastman]

What is it with you two???

Like an old married couple !

I honestly feel like finding him a Muslim dating site. Perhaps a girlfriend will keep him busy from trolling.

Like I said before......I already have 2 wives......don't need a 3rd.

Plus it's against Islam to date or have a girl friend.

But thanks for your concern. ...

What do they think of their loser husband who spends his entire day on message forums ?