Saluting the President

[AZrailwhale]

Failure to salute a superior officer is disrespect toward that officer. The President, as CinC, is the highest officer and is superior to all others. Failure to salute him is a violation of Article 89.

In Vietnam I saluted only my C.O. and officers above the rank of general. One day a Lt demanded I salute him. I refused. I figured he just arrived and that's exactly what I told him. Nothing more was said. I think saluting ought to restricted to roll call, parades, and between the CO and his own men. But most definitely, civilians saluting the flag w/national anthem (or hand on heart) at sporting events should be banned. Period.

You're lucky that LT didn't go to your CO and have you up for disciplinary action. Which you would have richly deserved, who the fuck do you think you are? In the military you don't get to decide when you will follow orders, customs, and courtesies and when you don't. You are entitled to your opinion, but when in uniform you damn well better do as you're told or face the consequences.

"most definitely, civilians saluting the flag w/national anthem (or hand on heart) at sporting events should be banned"

There's probably another thread about this somewhere, but I think anyone who refuses to show respect for the flag or the anthem should be put on a boat or plane and sent off to their desired location elsewhere with a one-way ticket.

It was a combat zone. I don't know about the air force, but saluting an officer in a combat zone was singling him out for enemy action. It was SOP to NEVER salute an officer in a combat zone. Salutes or obvious signs of respect are things snipers are trained to look for when choosing their victims.

 

[AZrailwhale]

You're lucky that LT didn't go to your CO and have you up for disciplinary action. Which you would have richly deserved …

My CO would have told him to stick it up his rectum and mind his own business. We were in the business of staying alive, not playing Dick & Jane with new-arrivals.

… who the fuck do you think you are?

A veteran in a war zone, that’s who. There were more than a few ”butter ball” first and second loueys who took a bullet in the back. You can feel sorry for them if you want but taking down one to save a dozen is a good investment and it strengthens the bond between the men who really matter.

In the military you don't get to decide when you will follow orders, customs, and courtesies and when you don't.

But you do get to decide in what direction you aim when you pull the trigger. New arrivals (no matter what rank) had to follow our lead, not the other way around. If they tried to buck the system they'd have trouble making it out alive. Learn quick ... or else.

You are entitled to your opinion,…

That’s right … and I just did.

… but when in uniform you damn well better do as you're told or face the consequences.

Bull crappy. That patty-cake stuff applies to the pussy boys with their brown noses up the buttocks of the dress-greens. Anyway, I told you what I did and the "consequences" if you can't handle that it's your problem. It certainly isn't mine. If you didn't learn anything from what I told you then you just carry on in the cloud. Do you think I'm going to argue with you over something you don't understand?

"most definitely, civilians saluting the flag w/national anthem (or hand on heart) at sporting events should be banned"

There's probably another thread about this somewhere, but I think anyone who refuses to show respect for the flag or the anthem should be put on a boat or plane and sent off to their desired location elsewhere with a one-way ticket.

You must be about 18 years-old with a stack of Joan Wayne videos within ear-shot of your mother (or the equivalent), just in case life gets too complicated for you.

You're full of shit. I doubt if you are even old enough to have served in Vietnam, not with your attitude. Shooting somebody in the back, really? Happened all the time, did it? Bullshit. My guess is, the closest you ever got to Vietnam was watching reruns of Tour of Duty. And it's JOHN Wayne you dumbfuck.

Fragging/accidental shootings happen in war zones to unpopular officers or glory hounds. Decent troops aren't going to allow themselves to be killed by a glory hound. Being killed to accomplish the mission is one thing, being killed by a glory hound is another entirely.

 

[DGS49]

My recollection is that there was no saluting between the military and the President until Ronald Reagan started saluting his honor guard (of whatever they call it). They started saluting him back because they respected HIM, and after that it became "disrespectful" for them NOT to salute the CoC, even if he was a piece of shit.

The UCMJ quote above is irrelevant. It is not disrespectful to decline to salute someone under circumstances where it is inappropriate.

"
U.S. Army regulations, for example, state that neither civilians nor those wearing civilian attire (both of which describe the U.S. president) are required to render salutes. The regulation states:

“The President of the United States, as the commander in chief, will be saluted by Army personnel in uniform.

“Civilian personnel, to include civilian guards, are not required to render the hand salute to military personnel or other civilian personnel.

“Salutes are not required to be rendered or returned when the senior or subordinate, or both are in civilian attire.”

Although other presidents have saluted military personnel on various occasions, the returning of presidential salutes did not become commonplace until President Ronald Reagan began the practice in 1981, Snopes.com found.

Reagan explained his decision a few years later in remarks to U.S. service members and their families stationed in Iceland:

“I can’t resist telling you a little story that I’ve just told the marine guard at the Embassy. The story has to do with saluting. I was a second lieutenant of horse cavalry back in the World War II days. As I told the admiral, I wound up flying a desk for the Army Air Force. And so, I know all the rules about not saluting in civilian clothes and so forth, and when you should or shouldn’t. But then when I got this job and I would be approaching Air Force One or Marine One and those Marines would come to a salute and I - knowing that I am in civilian clothes - I would nod and say hello and think they could drop their hand, and they wouldn’t. They just stood there. So, one night over at the Marine Commandant’s quarters in Washington, and I was getting a couple of highballs, and I didn’t know what to do with them. So, I said to the Commandant, I said, ‘Look, I know all the rules about saluting in civilian clothes and all, but if I am the Commander in Chief, there ought to be a regulation that would permit me to return a salute.’ And I heard some words of wisdom. He said, ‘I think if you did, no one would say anything.’

Bottom line: it is not required, but it has become customary. To me, it looks "stupid" for someone in civvies to either salute or be saluted. Sorry.

 

[22lcidw]

What's the deal with the soldiers who are in the President's military entourage saluting him? And him saluting back?

I realize that he is the Commander in Chief (not really - only in time of war), but to me it seems entirely inappropriate for people in civilian clothes saluting uniformed military personnel, or vice versa.

I don't think salutes are appropriate either way. They should stand respectfully at attention, and he can acknowledge them verbally if he feels the urge to do so, but the President is not a soldier. That is one privilege s/he is not entitled to.

The president rates a salute.

Any/every president or just some but not others?

I said "the president". Right? That means every president. When the troops salute the president, they're saluting the title, the office, the rank per se, not the person. It's a sign of respect for the office, not the person.

So yes, every president.

Was DiNero saluting when he said, "Fuck Trump!"?

I lost respect for many of the entertainers. They had a soap box for their politics because they are known and used it in every public setting without any fear of retaliation by the opposing side because of the threat of personal destruction by the real people in power.

 

[toobfreak]

it seems entirely inappropriate for people in civilian clothes saluting uniformed military personnel, or vice versa.

Don't you see, they are not conveying normal military respect, they are signalling the new alliance between a corrupted civilian government and the supporting, loyal armed forces needed to back them up.

 

[whitehall]

I would sooner salute a pile of dog shit...

Respect the uniform/office, not the man is the rule.

The rule is to respect the tradition and duty and honor of the institution you were sworn to protect and defend. Your personal opinion ain't worth shit.

 

[Vrenn]

Failure to salute a superior officer is disrespect toward that officer. The President, as CinC, is the highest officer and is superior to all others. Failure to salute him is a violation of Article 89.

In Vietnam I saluted only my C.O. and officers above the rank of general. One day a Lt demanded I salute him. I refused. I figured he just arrived and that's exactly what I told him. Nothing more was said. I think saluting ought to restricted to roll call, parades, and between the CO and his own men. But most definitely, civilians saluting the flag w/national anthem (or hand on heart) at sporting events should be banned. Period.

You're lucky that LT didn't go to your CO and have you up for disciplinary action. Which you would have richly deserved, who the fuck do you think you are? In the military you don't get to decide when you will follow orders, customs, and courtesies and when you don't. You are entitled to your opinion, but when in uniform you damn well better do as you're told or face the consequences.

"most definitely, civilians saluting the flag w/national anthem (or hand on heart) at sporting events should be banned"

There's probably another thread about this somewhere, but I think anyone who refuses to show respect for the flag or the anthem should be put on a boat or plane and sent off to their desired location elsewhere with a one-way ticket.

It was a combat zone. I don't know about the air force, but saluting an officer in a combat zone was singling him out for enemy action. It was SOP to NEVER salute an officer in a combat zone. Salutes or obvious signs of respect are things snipers are trained to look for when choosing their victims.

In a combat zone for the AF, everyone wore black tabs (made out of electrical tape) so that no one could figure out exactly who was an officer or not. And once you hit the bird, no salutes ever. The Flight line saluting was for special people. If the strip was in a high threat area, no saluting, period.

 

[GLASNOST]

I would sooner salute a pile of dog shit...

Respect the uniform/office, not the man is the rule.

Idi Amin, Adolf Hitler, Musolinni, Pinochet, etc. They all wore a uniform.

 

[GLASNOST]

I would sooner salute a pile of dog shit...

Respect the uniform/office, not the man is the rule.

The rule is to respect the tradition and duty and honor of the institution you were sworn to protect and defend. Your personal opinion ain't worth shit.

What makes you think every man "swore" an allegiance?

 

[GLASNOST]

What's the deal with the soldiers who are in the President's military entourage saluting him? And him saluting back?

I realize that he is the Commander in Chief (not really - only in time of war), but to me it seems entirely inappropriate for people in civilian clothes saluting uniformed military personnel, or vice versa.

I don't think salutes are appropriate either way. They should stand respectfully at attention, and he can acknowledge them verbally if he feels the urge to do so, but the President is not a soldier. That is one privilege s/he is not entitled to.

The president rates a salute.

Any/every president or just some but not others?

I said "the president". Right? That means every president. When the troops salute the president, they're saluting the title, the office, the rank per se, not the person. It's a sign of respect for the office, not the person.

So yes, every president.

Was DiNero saluting when he said, "Fuck Trump!"?

Dinero couldn't salute the steam off Trump's shit.

If he did it would be an insult to excrement.

 

[GLASNOST]

Failure to salute a superior officer is disrespect toward that officer. The President, as CinC, is the highest officer and is superior to all others. Failure to salute him is a violation of Article 89.

In Vietnam I saluted only my C.O. and officers above the rank of general. One day a Lt demanded I salute him. I refused. I figured he just arrived and that's exactly what I told him. Nothing more was said. I think saluting ought to restricted to roll call, parades, and between the CO and his own men. But most definitely, civilians saluting the flag w/national anthem (or hand on heart) at sporting events should be banned. Period.

You're lucky that LT didn't go to your CO and have you up for disciplinary action. Which you would have richly deserved, who the fuck do you think you are? In the military you don't get to decide when you will follow orders, customs, and courtesies and when you don't. You are entitled to your opinion, but when in uniform you damn well better do as you're told or face the consequences.

"most definitely, civilians saluting the flag w/national anthem (or hand on heart) at sporting events should be banned"

There's probably another thread about this somewhere, but I think anyone who refuses to show respect for the flag or the anthem should be put on a boat or plane and sent off to their desired location elsewhere with a one-way ticket.

It was a combat zone. I don't know about the air force, but saluting an officer in a combat zone was singling him out for enemy action. It was SOP to NEVER salute an officer in a combat zone. Salutes or obvious signs of respect are things snipers are trained to look for when choosing their victims.

That's true, yes, but the incident happened at base camp. I'm sure the Lt. was a new arrival and didn't know his ass from a hole in the ground. I only saluted my CO and the occasional General and he was the only idiot who complained. Anyway, we all wore green & black camouflage insignia so you'd have to really scrutinize each and every uniform to see what rank they held. Who cared?

 

[GLASNOST]

You're lucky that LT didn't go to your CO and have you up for disciplinary action. Which you would have richly deserved …

My CO would have told him to stick it up his rectum and mind his own business. We were in the business of staying alive, not playing Dick & Jane with new-arrivals.

… who the fuck do you think you are?

A veteran in a war zone, that’s who. There were more than a few ”butter ball” first and second loueys who took a bullet in the back. You can feel sorry for them if you want but taking down one to save a dozen is a good investment and it strengthens the bond between the men who really matter.

In the military you don't get to decide when you will follow orders, customs, and courtesies and when you don't.

But you do get to decide in what direction you aim when you pull the trigger. New arrivals (no matter what rank) had to follow our lead, not the other way around. If they tried to buck the system they'd have trouble making it out alive. Learn quick ... or else.

You are entitled to your opinion,…

That’s right … and I just did.

… but when in uniform you damn well better do as you're told or face the consequences.

Bull crappy. That patty-cake stuff applies to the pussy boys with their brown noses up the buttocks of the dress-greens. Anyway, I told you what I did and the "consequences" if you can't handle that it's your problem. It certainly isn't mine. If you didn't learn anything from what I told you then you just carry on in the cloud. Do you think I'm going to argue with you over something you don't understand?

"most definitely, civilians saluting the flag w/national anthem (or hand on heart) at sporting events should be banned"

There's probably another thread about this somewhere, but I think anyone who refuses to show respect for the flag or the anthem should be put on a boat or plane and sent off to their desired location elsewhere with a one-way ticket.

You must be about 18 years-old with a stack of Joan Wayne videos within ear-shot of your mother (or the equivalent), just in case life gets too complicated for you.

You're full of shit. I doubt if you are even old enough to have served in Vietnam, not with your attitude. Shooting somebody in the back, really? Happened all the time, did it? Bullshit. My guess is, the closest you ever got to Vietnam was watching reruns of Tour of Duty. And it's JOHN Wayne you dumbfuck.

Fragging/accidental shootings happen in war zones to unpopular officers or glory hounds. Decent troops aren't going to allow themselves to be killed by a glory hound. Being killed to accomplish the mission is one thing, being killed by a glory hound is another entirely.

This is the bitter truth. Good and decent men were killed on both sides. Assholes who bought the ranch were a blessing for everyone.

 

[GLASNOST]

What's the deal with the soldiers who are in the President's military entourage saluting him? And him saluting back?

I realize that he is the Commander in Chief (not really - only in time of war), but to me it seems entirely inappropriate for people in civilian clothes saluting uniformed military personnel, or vice versa.

I don't think salutes are appropriate either way. They should stand respectfully at attention, and he can acknowledge them verbally if he feels the urge to do so, but the President is not a soldier. That is one privilege s/he is not entitled to.

The president rates a salute.

Any/every president or just some but not others?

I said "the president". Right? That means every president. When the troops salute the president, they're saluting the title, the office, the rank per se, not the person. It's a sign of respect for the office, not the person.

So yes, every president.

Was DiNero saluting when he said, "Fuck Trump!"?

I lost respect for many of the entertainers. They had a soap box for their politics because they are known and used it in every public setting without any fear of retaliation by the opposing side because of the threat of personal destruction by the real people in power.

I'm with you 100% on that.

 

[harmonica]

I respectfully disagree.

If you were an enlisted man in uniform, and encountered your Company Commander, off duty and wearing a jogging suit, would you salute him?

I submit that you would not, and it would be inappropriate to do so.

Proper military conduct would be to greet him appropriately - "Good morning, sir!" and that's it. No salute to anyone not in uniform.

Including the President.

Plain and simple: that's the regulations...that goes for any regulation

All About Marine Corps Customs and Traditions

Marine customs are simply desirable courses of action sanctioned by tradition and usage. Learn more about the different customs.

www.thebalancecareers.com

.

 

[harmonica]

Failure to salute a superior officer is disrespect toward that officer. The President, as CinC, is the highest officer and is superior to all others. Failure to salute him is a violation of Article 89.

In Vietnam I saluted only my C.O. and officers above the rank of general. One day a Lt demanded I salute him. I refused. I figured he just arrived and that's exactly what I told him. Nothing more was said. I think saluting ought to restricted to roll call, parades, and between the CO and his own men. But most definitely, civilians saluting the flag w/national anthem (or hand on heart) at sporting events should be banned. Period.

exactly--you THINK, only

 

[GLASNOST]

Failure to salute a superior officer is disrespect toward that officer. The President, as CinC, is the highest officer and is superior to all others. Failure to salute him is a violation of Article 89.

In Vietnam I saluted only my C.O. and officers above the rank of general. One day a Lt demanded I salute him. I refused. I figured he just arrived and that's exactly what I told him. Nothing more was said. I think saluting ought to restricted to roll call, parades, and between the CO and his own men. But most definitely, civilians saluting the flag w/national anthem (or hand on heart) at sporting events should be banned. Period.

exactly--you THINK, only

You must be playing with less than 52 cards if you imagine I ONLY THINK I don't stand or put my hand on my heart at the flag or the national anthem. I am telling you that I don't do it. If you don't believe me then you can BELIEVE anything you like.

 

[harmonica]

Failure to salute a superior officer is disrespect toward that officer. The President, as CinC, is the highest officer and is superior to all others. Failure to salute him is a violation of Article 89.

In Vietnam I saluted only my C.O. and officers above the rank of general. One day a Lt demanded I salute him. I refused. I figured he just arrived and that's exactly what I told him. Nothing more was said. I think saluting ought to restricted to roll call, parades, and between the CO and his own men. But most definitely, civilians saluting the flag w/national anthem (or hand on heart) at sporting events should be banned. Period.

exactly--you THINK, only

You must be playing with less than 52 cards if you imagine I ONLY THINK I don't stand or put my hand on my heart at the flag or the national anthem. I am telling you that I don't do it. If you don't believe me then you can BELIEVE anything you like.

.....regulations are regulations..like someone said, you can't choose which ones you will follow

 

[GLASNOST]

exactly--you THINK, only

You must be playing with less than 52 cards if you imagine I ONLY THINK I don't stand or put my hand on my heart at the flag or the national anthem. I am telling you that I don't do it. If you don't believe me then you can BELIEVE anything you like.

.....regulations are regulations..like someone said, you can't choose which ones you will follow

Are you illiterate? I've already told you more than once ...... I do follow the ones I want to follow. Learn how to read, dude.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Let's stick to the topic of the thread, which is not each other

 

[harmonica]

Let's stick to the topic of the thread, which is not each other

exactly--