Saluting the President

[DGS49]

What's the deal with the soldiers who are in the President's military entourage saluting him? And him saluting back?

I realize that he is the Commander in Chief (not really - only in time of war), but to me it seems entirely inappropriate for people in civilian clothes saluting uniformed military personnel, or vice versa.

I don't think salutes are appropriate either way. They should stand respectfully at attention, and he can acknowledge them verbally if he feels the urge to do so, but the President is not a soldier. That is one privilege s/he is not entitled to.

 

[Auld Phart]

but the President is not a soldier.

Wrong

as President, Biden is Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces.

As such, he is saluted, and returns salutes.

 

[Concerned American]

What's the deal with the soldiers who are in the President's military entourage saluting him? And him saluting back?

I realize that he is the Commander in Chief (not really - only in time of war), but to me it seems entirely inappropriate for people in civilian clothes saluting uniformed military personnel, or vice versa.

I don't think salutes are appropriate either way. They should stand respectfully at attention, and he can acknowledge them verbally if he feels the urge to do so, but the President is not a soldier. That is one privilege s/he is not entitled to.

Military etiquette demands that the POTUS be saluted by any troop not under arms when outdoors. Etiquette also demands that the salute be returned by the POTUS. Rising to attention is the etiquette indoors.

 

[task0778]

Well now. First of all, POTUS is the Commander in Chief in both war and times of peace, and that is why every military person will salute him. It is an acknowledgement that even though he is not in the military himself , he is fact the CIC and the military is charged with obeying his orders if lawful.

 

[The Irish Ram]

I would sooner salute a pile of dog shit...

 

[DGS49]

I respectfully disagree.

If you were an enlisted man in uniform, and encountered your Company Commander, off duty and wearing a jogging suit, would you salute him?

I submit that you would not, and it would be inappropriate to do so.

Proper military conduct would be to greet him appropriately - "Good morning, sir!" and that's it. No salute to anyone not in uniform.

Including the President.

 

[task0778]

I would sooner salute a pile of dog shit...

Understood. But the military are not saluting the man, they re saluting the office or rank he holds. I can tell you first hand that there have been many generals and admirals who were piles of dog shit but got saluted anyway.

I believe this is correct:

If you are in civilian clothing and the officer is in uniform, you do not salute. You may greet them by rank. If the officer is in civilian clothing and you are in uniform and recognize them as an officer, it is proper to render a salute. And no salute is required if you are both in civilian clothes.

 

[Darkwind]

I respectfully disagree.

If you were an enlisted man in uniform, and encountered your Company Commander, off duty and wearing a jogging suit, would you salute him?

I submit that you would not, and it would be inappropriate to do so.

Proper military conduct would be to greet him appropriately - "Good morning, sir!" and that's it. No salute to anyone not in uniform.

Including the President.

The President is ALWAYS on duty.

 

[GLASNOST]

What's the deal with the soldiers who are in the President's military entourage saluting him? And him saluting back?

That's what I'd like to know.

I realize that he is the Commander in Chief (not really - only in time of war), but to me it seems entirely inappropriate for people in civilian clothes saluting uniformed military personnel, or vice versa.

I don't think salutes are appropriate either way. They should stand respectfully at attention, and he can acknowledge them verbally if he feels the urge to do so, but the President is not a soldier. That is one privilege s/he is not entitled to.

I agree. Furthermore, it is fascist to be required to stand when the president or a judge enters a room or when the flag is raised. You don't see the owner of a company standing at attention when his employees arrive at work in the morning.

 

[Blackrook]

This is a stupid thread. The OP is WRONG. End of discussion.

 

[GLASNOST]

This is a stupid thread. The OP is WRONG. End of discussion.

Your response is stupid. You are WRONG. End of discussion. The OP is talking about fundamental military code.

 

[Darkwind]

Article 89 of the UCMJ

“Any person subject to this chapter who behaves with disrespect toward his superior commissioned officer shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.”

Failure to salute a superior officer is disrespect toward that officer. The President, as CinC, is the highest officer and is superior to all others. Failure to salute him is a violation of Article 89.

 

[GLASNOST]

Failure to salute a superior officer is disrespect toward that officer. The President, as CinC, is the highest officer and is superior to all others. Failure to salute him is a violation of Article 89.

In Vietnam I saluted only my C.O. and officers above the rank of general. One day a Lt demanded I salute him. I refused. I figured he just arrived and that's exactly what I told him. Nothing more was said. I think saluting ought to restricted to roll call, parades, and between the CO and his own men. But most definitely, civilians saluting the flag w/national anthem (or hand on heart) at sporting events should be banned. Period.

 

[Darkwind]

Failure to salute a superior officer is disrespect toward that officer. The President, as CinC, is the highest officer and is superior to all others. Failure to salute him is a violation of Article 89.

In Vietnam I saluted only my C.O. and officers above the rank of general. One day a Lt demanded I salute him. I refused. I figured he just arrived and that's exactly what I told him. Nothing more was said. I think saluting ought to restricted to roll call, parades, and between the CO and his own men. But most definitely, civilians saluting the flag w/national anthem (or hand on heart) at sporting events should be banned. Period.

It doesn't really matter what you think.

It is codified in the UCMJ. /thread

 

[GLASNOST]

Failure to salute a superior officer is disrespect toward that officer. The President, as CinC, is the highest officer and is superior to all others. Failure to salute him is a violation of Article 89.

In Vietnam I saluted only my C.O. and officers above the rank of general. One day a Lt demanded I salute him. I refused. I figured he just arrived and that's exactly what I told him. Nothing more was said. I think saluting ought to restricted to roll call, parades, and between the CO and his own men. But most definitely, civilians saluting the flag w/national anthem (or hand on heart) at sporting events should be banned. Period.

It doesn't really matter what you think.

It is codified in the UCMJ. /thread

It doesn't really matter what the codified UCMJ thinks. I do not stand for the national anthym or for the raising of the flag and I damn sure don't put my hand on my heart. That's what really matters.

 

[task0778]

Failure to salute a superior officer is disrespect toward that officer. The President, as CinC, is the highest officer and is superior to all others. Failure to salute him is a violation of Article 89.

In Vietnam I saluted only my C.O. and officers above the rank of general. One day a Lt demanded I salute him. I refused. I figured he just arrived and that's exactly what I told him. Nothing more was said. I think saluting ought to restricted to roll call, parades, and between the CO and his own men. But most definitely, civilians saluting the flag w/national anthem (or hand on heart) at sporting events should be banned. Period.

You're lucky that LT didn't go to your CO and have you up for disciplinary action. Which you would have richly deserved, who the fuck do you think you are? In the military you don't get to decide when you will follow orders, customs, and courtesies and when you don't. You are entitled to your opinion, but when in uniform you damn well better do as you're told or face the consequences.

"most definitely, civilians saluting the flag w/national anthem (or hand on heart) at sporting events should be banned"

There's probably another thread about this somewhere, but I think anyone who refuses to show respect for the flag or the anthem should be put on a boat or plane and sent off to their desired location elsewhere with a one-way ticket.

 

[Darkwind]

Failure to salute a superior officer is disrespect toward that officer. The President, as CinC, is the highest officer and is superior to all others. Failure to salute him is a violation of Article 89.

In Vietnam I saluted only my C.O. and officers above the rank of general. One day a Lt demanded I salute him. I refused. I figured he just arrived and that's exactly what I told him. Nothing more was said. I think saluting ought to restricted to roll call, parades, and between the CO and his own men. But most definitely, civilians saluting the flag w/national anthem (or hand on heart) at sporting events should be banned. Period.

It doesn't really matter what you think.

It is codified in the UCMJ. /thread

It doesn't really matter what the codified UCMJ thinks. I do not stand for the national anthym or for the raising of the flag and I damn sure don't put my hand on my heart. That's what really matters.

It takes intelligence to understand the conversation. Way to highlight your lack of it.

You don't want to do any of that, then don't come whining when you end doing a lot of bleeding.

 

[Darkwind]

Failure to salute a superior officer is disrespect toward that officer. The President, as CinC, is the highest officer and is superior to all others. Failure to salute him is a violation of Article 89.

In Vietnam I saluted only my C.O. and officers above the rank of general. One day a Lt demanded I salute him. I refused. I figured he just arrived and that's exactly what I told him. Nothing more was said. I think saluting ought to restricted to roll call, parades, and between the CO and his own men. But most definitely, civilians saluting the flag w/national anthem (or hand on heart) at sporting events should be banned. Period.

You're lucky that LT didn't go to your CO and have you up for disciplinary action. Which you would have richly deserved, who the fuck do you think you are? In the military you don't get to decide when you will follow orders, customs, and courtesies and when you don't. You are entitled to your opinion, but when in uniform you damn well better do as you're told or face the consequences.

"most definitely, civilians saluting the flag w/national anthem (or hand on heart) at sporting events should be banned"

There's probably another thread about this somewhere, but I think anyone who refuses to show respect for the flag or the anthem should be put on a boat or plane and sent off to their desired location elsewhere with a one-way ticket.

There you go.

 

[whitehall]

In the greatest Country in the world the elected officials are in charge of the military and not vice versa. It stands to reason that the Military would solute the Commander in Chief. It should be noted that military procedure requires officers to solute enlisted personnel who have been awarded the Medal of Honor.

 

[GLASNOST]

You're lucky that LT didn't go to your CO and have you up for disciplinary action. Which you would have richly deserved …

My CO would have told him to stick it up his rectum and mind his own business. We were in the business of staying alive, not playing Dick & Jane with new-arrivals.

… who the fuck do you think you are?

A veteran in a war zone, that’s who. There were more than a few ”butter ball” first and second loueys who took a bullet in the back. You can feel sorry for them if you want but taking down one to save a dozen is a good investment and it strengthens the bond between the men who really matter.

In the military you don't get to decide when you will follow orders, customs, and courtesies and when you don't.

But you do get to decide in what direction you aim when you pull the trigger. New arrivals (no matter what rank) had to follow our lead, not the other way around. If they tried to buck the system they'd have trouble making it out alive. Learn quick ... or else.

You are entitled to your opinion,…

That’s right … and I just did.

… but when in uniform you damn well better do as you're told or face the consequences.

Bull crappy. That patty-cake stuff applies to the pussy boys with their brown noses up the buttocks of the dress-greens. Anyway, I told you what I did and the "consequences" if you can't handle that it's your problem. It certainly isn't mine. If you didn't learn anything from what I told you then you just carry on in the cloud. Do you think I'm going to argue with you over something you don't understand?

"most definitely, civilians saluting the flag w/national anthem (or hand on heart) at sporting events should be banned"

There's probably another thread about this somewhere, but I think anyone who refuses to show respect for the flag or the anthem should be put on a boat or plane and sent off to their desired location elsewhere with a one-way ticket.

You must be about 18 years-old with a stack of Joan Wayne videos within ear-shot of your mother (or the equivalent), just in case life gets too complicated for you.