Rx for the Democrats

[SweetSue92]

The President can't do anything about it. Politicians can't do anything about it.

This is cultural. It's street level. It permeates our society from end to end. The only way it changes is if it's cultural. And I have no idea how that starts. But it has to start.

How many times have I said the Left is losing the culture?

Being a scold--a pursed lipped, judgmental, Puritanical scold--is fundamentally UNCOOL.

Hello?

 

[SweetSue92]

So like 10 months ago you made a comment I didn’t see but you view yourself sooooooo fucking important, that you can’t imagine someone might not have seen one of your posts? Really?

Mac thinks he's great at this. In reality his gaslighting has devolved to him lighting, and then hotboxing and smelling, his own farts over and over.

 

[Cellblock2429]

How many times have I said the Left is losing the culture?

Being a scold--a pursed lipped, judgmental, Puritanical scold--is fundamentally UNCOOL.

Hello?

/—-/ As long as democRATs don’t get why they lost, the Republic is safe.

 

[Mac1958]

I am serious. See my thread "I am of Two minds in this election." I'm totally serious and I believe the evidence suggests I'm right.

Well, I believe that you believe it.

 

[Mac1958]

Ok. Here’s a question.

I have many friends who are LGBTQ and some trans

Do we just abandon them?

No, of course not. The same rule applies across the political spectrum: It's not advocacy for the issue that ends up being the problem. The problem is the methods used while advocating. Neither end of the spectrum appears to think for ONE SECOND about the possible negative ramifications of their tactics.

The Left went off the rails when it weaponized PC and Identity Politics. There's a pretty big difference between (a) advocacy and working to change hearts and minds, and (b) punishing, intimidating, canceling and attacking people for saying the "wrong" word or holding the "wrong" opinion. The difference is huge, and the resentment it creates only builds over time. I gave examples in the OP.

And every time I've brought this up over the years, the notion is summarily dismissed by the Left. Or I'm told some form of "too bad". Well, okay, now the shoe is on the other foot, THEY are the ones saying "too bad", and the Left STILL doesn't get it. The Left is not fucking listening.

This is another perfect example of why I keep saying that communication, collaboration and innovation are lost in America, and it's killing us. Gaining just enough power to shove our agenda down each other's throats is NEVER going to be a smart or long term answer.

 

[Mac1958]

The Democrats are the party of identity politics, and they've based many policy positions on a substantially small portion of the electorate -- the LGBT alphabet group. In response, they've pussified men, created a large group of easily offended young adults and the safe spaces for them to retreat to. It's created a culture of overly-sensitive adults who can't handle conflict, resist facts and reality, probably are taking some type of anti-depressant, and demonstrating their mental stability with the millions of meltdowns we continue to see on social media platforms.

 

[Mac1958]

Another thought: I've seen discussions where it's brought up that the Left abandoned the Middle Class and embraced PC/Identity Politics. "No way", the lefty will say. "We have not abandoned the Middle Class". So they just dismiss the entire thing. Poof. Gone.

Hey folks, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE SAME PEOPLE.

If you're advocating for the Middle Class one moment, and then destroying a family business because they won't BAKE A FUCKING CAKE, you are dealing with THE SAME PEOPLE. Do you not think they're paying attention? And do you not think that they're seeing the other party defending them?

When you say you're advocating for the Middle Class and you scream RACIST HOMOPHOBE ISLAMOPHOBE if you perceive they said something bad, you are attacking THE SAME PEOPLE. Do you not think they're paying attention? And do you not think that they're seeing the other party defending them?

When you say you're advocating for the Middle Class and then have a group of flamboyant transsexuals doing their stuff in front of children, the parents of those children are THE SAME PEOPLE. Do you not think they're paying attention? And do you not think that they're seeing the other party defending them?

When you say you're advocating for the Middle Class and you fire a person for not using the right "pronouns" (holy shit, seriously?), you're firing and ruining the lives of THE SAME PEOPLE. Do you not think they're paying attention? And do you not think that they're seeing the other party defending them?

When you say you're advocating for the Middle Class and you attack a man's very core by accusing him of "toxic masculinity", you are attacking THE SAME PEOPLE. Do you not think they're paying attention? And do you not think that they're seeing the other party defending them?

This shit has to stop. This defeat was self-inflicted, as they usually are.

 

[Lesh]

No, of course not. The same rule applies across the political spectrum: It's not advocacy for the issue that ends up being the problem. The problem is the methods used while advocating. Neither end of the spectrum appears to think for ONE SECOND about the possible negative ramifications of their tactics.

The Left went off the rails when it weaponized PC and Identity Politics. There's a pretty big difference between (a) advocacy and working to change hearts and minds, and (b) punishing, intimidating, canceling and attacking people for saying the "wrong" word or holding the "wrong" opinion. The difference is huge, and the resentment it creates only builds over time. I gave examples in the OP.

And every time I've brought this up over the years, the notion is summarily dismissed by the Left. Or I'm told some form of "too bad". Well, okay, now the shoe is on the other foot, THEY are the ones saying "too bad", and the Left STILL doesn't get it. The Left is not fucking listening.

This is another perfect example of why I keep saying that communication, collaboration and innovation are lost in America, and it's killing us. Gaining just enough power to shove our agenda down each other's throats is NEVER going to be a smart or long term answer.

I’m not sure how you advocate to protect the rights of LGBTQ and trans folks who get attacked viciously without annoying the people who attack them

How would you do it in a way that would be non confrontational and yet effective?

 

[Curried Goats]

No, of course not. The same rule applies across the political spectrum: It's not advocacy for the issue that ends up being the problem. The problem is the methods used while advocating. Neither end of the spectrum appears to think for ONE SECOND about the possible negative ramifications of their tactics.

The Left went off the rails when it weaponized PC and Identity Politics. There's a pretty big difference between (a) advocacy and working to change hearts and minds, and (b) punishing, intimidating, canceling and attacking people for saying the "wrong" word or holding the "wrong" opinion. The difference is huge, and the resentment it creates only builds over time. I gave examples in the OP.

And every time I've brought this up over the years, the notion is summarily dismissed by the Left. Or I'm told some form of "too bad". Well, okay, now the shoe is on the other foot, THEY are the ones saying "too bad", and the Left STILL doesn't get it. The Left is not fucking listening.

This is another perfect example of why I keep saying that communication, collaboration and innovation are lost in America, and it's killing us. Gaining just enough power to shove our agenda down each other's throats is NEVER going to be a smart or long term answer.

The other side calls everyone a commie and calls immigrants dirty rapists who are ruining the blood of the country who will eat your dogs and cats. The problem isn't messaging, the problem is that a majority of the country are deplorable fucking whites who prefer that sort of thing.

 

[Lesh]

The other side calls everyone a commie and calls immigrants dirty rapists who are ruining the blood of the country who will eat your dogs and cats. The problem isn't messaging, the problem is that a majority of the country are deplorable fucking whites who prefer that sort of thing.

Exactly.

When people are that horrible and that dishonest, how do you “message” to them without condoning that behavior?

 

[Curried Goats]

Exactly.

When people are that horrible and that dishonest, how do you “message” to them without condoning that behavior?

Mac is just a bigot himself so he can't see passed his own bigotry. As I see it there were four main issues at play here. One, the economy. That hasn't been working for working and middle class families for decades as income inequality continues to rise and working and middle class families struggle more and more to buy homes, pay for college and medical bills. That both parties are responsible for. There's inflation, partly caused by the pandemic and by the infusion of money to families and businesses in order to manage it. Compared to the rest of the world the Biden administration did a fairly good job getting that under control. Third is the bigotry that many of the right and right leaning mo fo's like Mac1958 get down for and forth was Gaza which eroded crucial Muslim support.

 

[Mac1958]

I’m not sure how you advocate to protect the rights of LGBTQ and trans folks who get attacked viciously without annoying the people who attack them

How would you do it in a way that would be non confrontational and yet effective?

Well, yeah, that one is a real bitch.

I would only suggest that you start from where you are now -- some gains and a shitload of pent-up resentment -- and remember your audience.

If it were me, I'd go straightforward and honest. Step One, I would acknowledge what the Left has done wrong and apologize for it. No spinning, no "but's", no snark, no equivocation, because they'll be waiting for ALL of that. Blow their minds with straight honesty and humility. "We went too far too fast". They'll wait for the other shoe to drop, and it WON'T.

Then I would do everything I could to engage them in conversation. Slowly and incrementally. Take every tiny victory and build on it. Drop all the fucked up social rules and make it clear that you did so. Convince enough people in enough places to at least soften a bit. Look for any areas of agreement. Take the lead and bend. Maybe that will teach THEM to.

Here's the obvious problem: It may be too late now, for a while. From everything I see, they are a brick wall. So you have to move slowly. But first you have to drop the rules and punishment crap.

Believe me, I wish you great luck. This may be the one area where we can begin to heal. Dead serious.

 

[Curried Goats]

Well, yeah, that one is a real bitch.

I would only suggest that you start from where you are now -- some gains and a shitload of pent-up resentment -- and remember your audience.

If it were me, I'd go straightforward and honest. Step One, I would acknowledge what the Left has done wrong and apologize for it. No spinning, no "but's", no snark, no equivocation, because they'll be waiting for ALL of that. Blow their minds with straight honesty. "We went too far too fast". They'll wait for the other shoe to drop, and it WON'T.

Then I would do everything I could to engage them in conversation. Slowly and incrementally. Take every tiny victory and build on it. Drop all the fucked up social rules and make it clear that you did so. Convince enough people in enough places to at least soften a bit. Look for any areas of agreement. Take the lead and bend. Maybe that will teach THEM to.

Here's the obvious problem: It may be too late now, for a while. From everything I see, they are a brick wall. So you have to move slowly. But first you have to drop the rules and punishment crap.

Believe me, I wish you great luck. This may be the one area where we can begin to heal. Dead serious.

We really just have to replace deplorable white mother fuckers as a demographic majority.

 

[Mac1958]

"I told you so. I told you this identity shit was a disaster. But Carville is too old, you said".

 

[Delldude]

I’m not sure how you advocate to protect the rights of LGBTQ and trans folks

What rights do they have that you don't?

 

[Lesh]

What rights do they have that you don't?

Do you not understand that they are under attack in both the court of public opinion and by right wing regulations?

Of course you do

 

[Delldude]

Do you not understand that they are under attack in both the court of public opinion and by right wing regulations?

What are these RW regulations?

So all LGBTQ face the same moral issues as MAGA?

 

[Lesh]

What are these RW regulations?

So all LGBTQ face the same moral issues as MAGA?

I was talking to Mac. I see no reason to discuss anything with you

 

[Delldude]

I was talking to Mac. I see no reason to discuss anything with you

I'm talking to you.......so you are in a quandary?

So it's not permissible to degrade, shame and castigate LGBTQ but when YOU do it to and make it about MAGA, well that's okay?

 

[Lesh]

I'm talking to you.......so you are in a quandary?

So it's not permissible to degrade, shame and castigate LGBTQ but when YOU do it to and make it about MAGA, well that's okay?

Again. I was responding to and talking to Mac

You’re a troll.

There’s no point in discussing anything with you