Russian hacking is the real scandal

[westwall]

Let's see. The Soviet Union murdered an estimated 60 to 80 million of its own citizens. WWII only managed to kill 20 million of them. You were saying?

That this murderous culture has no problem killing or harming citizens of other nations since they obviously have no problem murdering millions of their own.

The shrilary's husband, when he was POTUS, authorized the slaughter of almost 100 people in Texas. It's a small, small step to take it to the next level.

 

[Divine Wind]

Let's see. The Soviet Union murdered an estimated 60 to 80 million of its own citizens. WWII only managed to kill 20 million of them. You were saying?

That this murderous culture has no problem killing or harming citizens of other nations since they obviously have no problem murdering millions of their own.

The shrilary's husband, when he was POTUS, authorized the slaughter of almost 100 people in Texas. It's a small, small step to take it to the next level.

A good reason to stay armed and ready regardless who is elected next week. While the odds seem to favor Hillary, I pray that Congress remains strongly Republican.

Fuck that adulterous, liar Bill. He was too busy getting his dick sucked to pay attention to what the ATF was doing. Even Janet Reno had bigger balls and a stronger spine than Slick Willie by standing up and taking responsibility for that atrocity. Same for Ruby Ridge.

Nonetheless, I'm deeply shocked that partisanship is so thick that a verifiable threat by the fucking Russians plays second-fiddle to domestic politics. Let's not forget that partisan politics played a similar role with al-Qaeda in the 1990s. People were more concerned about accusing Clinton of getting his dick sucked (which he was) and making "wag the dog" accusations than paying attention to what a fucking mad man was doing in the hills of Afghanistan.

 

[Votto]

No what you and the article is suggesting you want uneducated voters.

Disagreed.

On the contrary. If it were left up to me, voting would require both an IQ test and passing a citizenship test....preferably by becoming a military veteran.

The fact you make that accusation is strange to me. More like a fucking intolerant liberal than a rational Goldwater conservative.

Hillary was a Goldwater girl.

Before she became a flaming Nanny State Liberal?

Beats me. That's what she claimed once anyway.

I guess she will be anything she needs to be in order to get elected.

 

[Nia88]

Huh? Who ever hack these e mails and released them did a valuable service, to shield the truth from us is a crime against democracy .



.

Even if they have ulterior motives? Russia isn't doing this to help the American people. They are doing this because they want hurt America. They aren't going to stop at Hilary. They will probably hack into something a little more serious and sinister next time.

Again it's pay back for Hillary's state department messing with Russia's last election..why fo you insist to shoot the messenger anyways?



.

Because the messenger oppresses and kills its own people daily. They have ulterior motives. Russia kills and jails its own opponents. They oppresses minority groups, women's groups and homosexuals. Putin really doesn't like gay people. If anyone speaks out against him they jailed.

They are also assisting another dictator (Assad) with killing his own Syrian people. Not ISIS either. Many of the people Assad is killing are his opponents who have nothing to do with terror.

It's a dictatorship in Russia.

 

[Correll]

...But as we have been meddling in Russian affairs for no good reason, we have no Moral High Ground to complain about them repaying the favor.....

Agreed in principle. Do you have evidence of what "meddling in Russian affairs for no good reason" you are referencing?

If it's true we've done so, are you saying it's okay for Russia to do the same to us? For only good reasons or any reason?

Nope. I saying we have not right to act morally outraged.

As for evidence, I will try to link to some examples later. no time right now.

 

[Divine Wind]

Nope. I saying we have not right to act morally outraged.

As for evidence, I will try to link to some examples later. no time right now.

This tit-for-tat thing goes both ways. While I will readily agree the United States of America isn't pure as the driven snow, I strongly believe that our nation works hard to conduct itself in keeping with core American values.

You mentioned that the US shouldn't meddle in Russian or foreign affairs, yet what do you think we should do when it's Russia, China or some other despotic nation that is meddling in our affairs or our allies? Nothing? Just hunker down and wait for them on our beaches? Our economy, like it or not, is globally based. Our trade routes and trading partners are crucial to maintaining our standard of living.

EDIT: correction on economic numbers.

..............
From 2009:
http://trade.gov/press/publications/newsletters/ita_0509/wtw_0509.asp
A Vital Contributor to the Economy

Just as it always has during previous cycles of growth and recession, exporting holds an important place in the U.S. economy. In 2008, U.S. exports of goods and services, on a balance of payments basis, totaled $1.84 trillion, an increase of 12 percent over 2007.

During the past decade, the share of U.S. gross domestic product accounted for by exporting has been growing—from 10.9 percent in 1998 to 13.0 percent in 2008.

6 Million Jobs

In 2008, according to figures compiled by the Census Bureau, exports of manufactured goods totaled $1.12 trillion. Manufactured exports supported roughly 6 million U.S. jobs in 2006, the latest year for which figures are available. Of those export-supported jobs, 2.58 million were in manufacturing industries. Those jobs accounted for 19.9 percent of all U.S. manufacturing employment, nearly one out of every five jobs.

Trade Surplus for Services

In 2008, services—the other component of exporting—posted a record trade surplus of $139.7 billion, an increase of 17.3 percent over 2007. Services exports totaled $544.4 billion in 2008, an increase of 9.5 percent over 2007.

Top U.S. services exports included other private services, such as business, professional, and technical services ($238.3 billion); travel ($110.5 billion); and royalties and license fees ($88.2 billion).

The Benefits of International Trade
America cannot have a growing economy or lift the wages and incomes of our citizens unless we continue to reach beyond our borders and sell products, produce, and services to the 95% of the world’s population that lives outside the United States.

More than 41 million American jobs depend on trade, and trade is critical to the success of many sectors of the U.S. economy. Manufacturing is the sector that exports the most, with more than $1.4 trillion worth of exports in 2014. The U.S. Department of Commerce estimates that exports of manufactured goods directly support approximately 6 million U.S. factory jobs—roughly half of all manufacturing employment.

According to economic data from the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis, U.S. real manufacturing output has risen by nearly 80% over the past 25 years. This represents the continuation of a long trend: U.S. manufacturing value-added has grown eightfold since 1947 in real terms.

Vast productivity gains relating to increased use of automation and information technologies have helped U.S. manufacturers retain and in many areas enhance their global competitiveness in recent years, even as the number of Americans employed in manufacturing has declined since its peak in 1979.

U.S. exports of services are also booming, topping $716 billion in 2015 and achieving a trade surplus in services of $227 billion, according to the U.S. Department of Commerce. The United States is by far the world’s largest exporter of services, and America’s globally competitive service industries—including audiovisual, banking, energy services, express delivery, information technology, insurance, and telecommunications—benefit immensely from opportunities abroad.

American farmers and ranchers also depend on exports. The same is true for America’s farmers and ranchers. One in three acres on America’s farms is planted for exports. For many crops, such as wheat or almonds, more than half is sold abroad. U.S. agriculture is so productive there’s no way Americans could consume this bounty alone.

Amid a renewed focus on boosting U.S. exports, it is important to bear in mind that imports benefit Americans as well. They bring lower prices and more choices for American families as they try to stretch their budgets. Companies also depend on imports for raw materials and competitively priced inputs.

Imports give us access to products that would not otherwise be available—such as fresh fruit in the winter. Access to imports boosts the purchasing power of the average American household by about $10,000 annually. Companies’ imports of intermediate goods, raw materials, and capital goods account for more than 60% of all U.S. goods imports—lowering costs for manufacturers and other businesses and helping them hone their competitive edge.

Indeed, tremendous benefits have flowed from U.S. free-trade agreements (FTAs), which cover 20 countries. These countries represent approximately 6% of the world’s population outside the United States, and yet last year these markets purchased nearly half of all U.S. exports, according to the U.S. Department of Commerce. In other words, U.S. FTAs do an outstanding job making big markets even out of small economies.

The trade balance is a poor measure of the success of these agreements, but deficits are often cited by trade skeptics as a reason why the United States should not negotiate free trade agreements. However, with regard to manufactured goods, the United States ran a cumulative trade surplus with its trade agreement partner countries of more than $280 billion over the past eight years (2008-2015), according to data from the U.S. Department of Commerce. The United States also has global trade surpluses in services and agricultural products.

Together, these facts reveal that the U.S. trade deficit arises from trade in manufactured goods with countries where the United States has no trade agreement in place. It’s ludicrous to say trade agreements are contributing to the deficit.

Also overlooked in the U.S. trade debate is the fact that 98% of the roughly 300,000 U.S. companies that export are small and medium-sized businesses, and they account for one-third of U.S. merchandise exports, according to the U.S. Department of Commerce. The number of small and midsized firms that export has risen about threefold over the past two decades.

In the end, we cannot turn our back on international trade. It is an inevitable part of the world in the 21st century. We simply need our elected leaders to prioritize initiatives to open foreign markets so that U.S. companies can sell more of our goods and services overseas. Trade can provide a path to jobs and prosperity if we have the courage to seize it.

 

[Correll]

Nope. I saying we have not right to act morally outraged.

As for evidence, I will try to link to some examples later. no time right now.

This tit-for-tat thing goes both ways. While I will readily agree the United States of America isn't pure as the driven snow, I strongly believe that our nation works hard to conduct itself in keeping with core American values.

You mentioned that the US shouldn't meddle in Russian or foreign affairs, yet what do you think we should do when it's Russia, China or some other despotic nation that is meddling in our affairs or our allies? ....

This time around, we were certainly the ones that started fucking with THEM.


We should stop. If after we stop, they keep messing with US, that's a different matter.

 

[Divine Wind]

This time around, we were certainly the ones that started fucking with THEM.


We should stop. If after we stop, they keep messing with US, that's a different matter.

This time around? You do realize this has been a constant problem since 1917, don't you?

Are you or have you ever been a communist? I have not.

 

[Tehon]

While it's clearly an impossible task for our alt-right and alt-left members to see things with an open mind, despite the pom-poms Albright dances around this article is, IMHO, excellent and does, indeed, point out a very serious problem facing our nation. Regardless of who wins next week or who runs Congress, our nation's future and democracy are being threatened by Russia and other despotic nations seeking to undermine our way of life and American values. This is not to diminish other scandals or problems facing our nation. It's simply to prioritize those that truly endanger us and those that are simply wrong.

Russian hacking is the real scandal: Madeleine Albright
Democrats have been renewing their calls this week for the FBI to release more information on the connections among Donald Trump, his top advisers and the Russian government. But it is already clear that Russia’s intervention in our election on Trump's side is the real scandal of 2016 — and we must take more seriously the threat this interference poses to democratic countries around the world.

For years, Russia and other authoritarian governments have been waging a shadow campaign to discredit democratic institutions worldwide, focusing much of their energy on Europe and former Soviet states in Asia. The goal is not necessarily to prove the superiority of their system, but to diminish the appeal of representative government and to undermine Western leaders by making them seem corrupt or malicious. This war has been waged by propaganda outlets such as Russia Todayand Sputnik News, but also through the spread of misinformation and lies across the Internet.

I have some experience with their methods because for years, Russian propaganda outlets have been spreading the bizarre rumor that I once said Siberia does not belong to Russia. After I denied saying this, Russian officials even claimed that they had read my mind — a capability I did not know they or their friends at Wikileaks had yet developed.

Russia's disinformation campaign against me was not very effective, but I fear its actions against our democracy may inflict real damage.

The Russian government has already hacked into the emails of the Democratic National Committee and Hillary Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta in an effort to create confusion and turn voters off from politics. Over the summer, Russian hackers infiltrated voter registration systems in a handful of states and made attempts in many more.Intelligence officials have also reportedly warned that they may post phony documents showing widespread voter fraud — all in order to create doubt about the validity of the U.S. election results, and to make us seem hypocritical when we question the conduct of elections in other countries.
Experts agree that it would be impossible for any hacker to actually alter election results. But if Russia — with assistance from Trump’s false claims about a rigged election — succeeds in undermining voter confidence in the integrity of the process, it will be a gift to autocrats, despots and illiberal politicians around the world. I have already heard anecdotes about people working to promote free and fair elections in other countries who have had Trump’s words about fraud thrown back at them. It has hurt their credibility and the credibility of American organizations as they promote the benefits of representative government.

It is time for us to regain the upper hand against all those who are attacking our system. But how can we fight back?

First, leaders at the local, state and national levels need to defend the legitimacy of the presidential election. The conduct of our elections is not a partisan issue and the credibility of the process should not be up for debate. The peaceful transfer of power is central to our national identity and to our international credibility. Even in close elections where some irregularities did occur, such as the 2000 presidential election in Florida, both sides followed an established legal process and ultimately respected the outcome. Regardless of what Trump says, Democratic and Republican leaders must leave no doubt that they will uphold democratic principles and the Constitution following the vote.

Second, we need to expose this disinformation campaign and limit its effects. We already have systems in place to monitor Islamic State propaganda on the Internet, and we should do the same for authoritarian propaganda. The U.S. governmentshould work with technology companies to develop better policies to deal with anti-democratic trolling, as they have done with cyberbullying, hate speech and violent extremism. We should launch an educational campaign so that those who are targets of propaganda understand the source and motivations behind it. We also need to offer more assistance to frontline states in Central and Eastern Europe as they stand up against the threat of illiberalism from within and without. This includes speaking to their publics, strengthening political parties and keeping open space for civil society.

Finally, we cannot only be reactive. Ultimately, the best way to counter anti-democratic propaganda is to tell the story of our democracy and do more to support democratic allies and activists around the world.

In recent years, democracy’s friends have been too timid, perhaps worried that the promotion of freedom was given a bad name by those who used it to justify the war in Iraq. While it is true that overselling democracy can be a mistake, selling it short would be an unforgivable error.

The right of people to participate in choosing their own leaders and shaping their own laws has been and remains the most powerful contributor to human progress and global stability. To protect our values and our interests, the United States must once again make strengthening democracy a central tenet of its foreign policy.

This election has reminded us that, in any society, building democracy is never easy and never fully accomplished; it is something to be worked toward, step by step, country by country, day by day. But since the inception of the United States, we have understood how vital it is that we stand together to help freedom succeed. Imposing democracy is an oxymoron, but defending democracy — in our country and abroad — is perhaps our most vital mission.

Madeleine Albright is a former secretary of State of the United States.

I see you are easily swayed by propagandist literature. And you have the audacity to accuse others of not maintaining an open mind when yours is so clearly made up.

 

[Divine Wind]

I see you are easily swayed by propagandist literature. And you have the audacity to accuse others of not maintaining an open mind when yours is so clearly made up.

Don't bogart that joint, kid.

Are you an anarchist?

 

[Tehon]

I see you are easily swayed by propagandist literature. And you have the audacity to accuse others of not maintaining an open mind when yours is so clearly made up.

Don't bogart that joint, kid.

What evidence do you have that Russia hacked and then leaked emails to sway our election?

 

[Tehon]

Are you an anarchist?

No

 

[Divine Wind]

What evidence do you have that Russia hacked and then leaked emails to sway our election?

First, it's more about a constant effort by Russia to undermine western democracy than sway a single election. As powerful as the office of the President of the United States can be, Congress is more powerful and less easily altered. However, if enemy forces can seed dissent and distrust among American citizens, it exacerbates our problems.

As for evidence of Russian hacking, it's not solid but more akin to "where there's smoke, there's fire" line of thinking. Besides, didn't Trump ask them to do so? Why would he ask the Russians and not the Chinese or American hackers? Odd, isn't it?

What is also odd is that clearly Hillary's paranoia led her to use an unsecure email system which, undoubtedly, was hacked. Do anyone have proof it was hacked? Not to my knowledge, but since it was unsecure, it was certainly hackable and as SoS, she would be a prime target for all hackers, not just Russians.

What we know about Russia's role in the DNC email leak
The U.S. government has not yet publicly named the culprit behind the DNC hack. But there seems to be widespread agreement among cybersecurity experts and professionals that the attribution belongs to Russian intelligence actors. Whether Russia hacked the DNC intending to affect the election remains unknown.

"The consensus that Russia hacked the DNC is at this point very strong, albeit not unanimous," said cybersecurity consultant Matt Tait, who has been critical of Clinton’s email practices. "The consensus that Russia hacked the DNC in support of Trump is, by contrast, plausible, but something for which the jury at this stage is very much still out."

 

[Divine Wind]

Are you an anarchist?

No

Black power advocate? Nation of Islam?

 

[Tehon]

What evidence do you have that Russia hacked and then leaked emails to sway our election?

First, it's more about a constant effort by Russia to undermine western democracy than sway a single election. As powerful as the office of the President of the United States can be, Congress is more powerful and less easily altered. However, if enemy forces can seed dissent and distrust among American citizens, it exacerbates our problems.

As for evidence of Russian hacking, it's not solid but more akin to "where there's smoke, there's fire" line of thinking. Besides, didn't Trump ask them to do so? Why would he ask the Russians and not the Chinese or American hackers? Odd, isn't it?

What is also odd is that clearly Hillary's paranoia led her to use an unsecure email system which, undoubtedly, was hacked. Do anyone have proof it was hacked? Not to my knowledge, but since it was unsecure, it was certainly hackable and as SoS, she would be a prime target for all hackers, not just Russians.

What we know about Russia's role in the DNC email leak
The U.S. government has not yet publicly named the culprit behind the DNC hack. But there seems to be widespread agreement among cybersecurity experts and professionals that the attribution belongs to Russian intelligence actors. Whether Russia hacked the DNC intending to affect the election remains unknown.

"The consensus that Russia hacked the DNC is at this point very strong, albeit not unanimous," said cybersecurity consultant Matt Tait, who has been critical of Clinton’s email practices. "The consensus that Russia hacked the DNC in support of Trump is, by contrast, plausible, but something for which the jury at this stage is very much still out."

Right, you have none. Yet you have made up your mind that the Russians did it. And you cite Madeleine Albright propaganda to support your belief that it was the evil Russians. Sad.

 

[Tehon]

Are you an anarchist?

No

Black power advocate? Nation of Islam?

I advocate for the truth.

 

[xyz]

Totally untrue. The greatest threat to the USA is form DOMESTIC sources. Namely the progressives trying to turn this country into another Soviet Union.

It can be, but when the missiles are in the air, feel free to bitch to me how Hillary and Bill Clinton's corruption is more dangerous than Russia.

As the saying goes, "Only fools fight in a burning house". Russia, China and North Korea are outside pouring gasoline all over our home while you bitch at me for saying we need to put physical dangers above assholes like Hillary Clinton. She can be controlled by Congress, Russia cannot.

Actually it's not so much China and North Korea supporting Trump.

There are certainly some things China and Trump agree on, but the Chinese are more pragmatic and would rather see a stable leader, and a strong American economy. Trump is also kind of racist even towards Asians, which doesn't play well.
(edit: plus he just attacked them in a recent ad)

North Korea does support him, but their support is conditional. In other words, if he runs his mouth a bit about them, they'll turn on him, fast.

 

[Pop23]

Claiming that a Russia hack of an unsecured server or Pedesta falling for a decade old phishing scam is THE REAL SCANDAL is funnier then hell.

The real scandal is that rich folks allowed these thing to happen by:

1. Not securing the server, and:

2. Being so stupid as to fall for a phishing scheme.

WE WANT THEM HANDLING NATIONAL SECURITY?

Secure communications for these folk likely includes communicating the nuclear launch codes via smoke signals!

 

[Correll]

This time around, we were certainly the ones that started fucking with THEM.


We should stop. If after we stop, they keep messing with US, that's a different matter.

This time around? You do realize this has been a constant problem since 1917, don't you?

Are you or have you ever been a communist? I have not.

NOpe. COld War ended and peace broke out for quite some time.

Until we started fucking around in their backyard, for no good reason.


Communists? Russia is not communist in any way at this point in time.

Putin is not a communist, nor is he ruling in a communist fashion, nor trying to spread communism.


Asking about communism shows that you are living in the past. Several world changes ago, past.

We should elect a president that has a policy of NOT fucking with a large,nuclear powered nation for no reason.

 

[Correll]

Totally untrue. The greatest threat to the USA is form DOMESTIC sources. Namely the progressives trying to turn this country into another Soviet Union.

It can be, but when the missiles are in the air, feel free to bitch to me how Hillary and Bill Clinton's corruption is more dangerous than Russia.

As the saying goes, "Only fools fight in a burning house". Russia, China and North Korea are outside pouring gasoline all over our home while you bitch at me for saying we need to put physical dangers above assholes like Hillary Clinton. She can be controlled by Congress, Russia cannot.

Actually it's not so much China and North Korea supporting Trump.

There are certainly some things China and Trump agree on, but the Chinese are more pragmatic and would rather see a stable leader, and a strong American economy. Trump is also kind of racist even towards Asians, which doesn't play well.
(edit: plus he just attacked them in a recent ad)

North Korea does support him, but their support is conditional. In other words, if he runs his mouth a bit about them, they'll turn on him, fast.

"Racism" just means you have nothing real to say.

We are China's bitch on Trade. They don't want a strong US leader. They want someone who will continue to be their bitch.