Russian hacking is the real scandal

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

While it's clearly an impossible task for our alt-right and alt-left members to see things with an open mind, despite the pom-poms Albright dances around this article is, IMHO, excellent and does, indeed, point out a very serious problem facing our nation. Regardless of who wins next week or who runs Congress, our nation's future and democracy are being threatened by Russia and other despotic nations seeking to undermine our way of life and American values. This is not to diminish other scandals or problems facing our nation. It's simply to prioritize those that truly endanger us and those that are simply wrong.

Russian hacking is the real scandal: Madeleine Albright
Democrats have been renewing their calls this week for the FBI to release more information on the connections among Donald Trump, his top advisers and the Russian government. But it is already clear that Russia’s intervention in our election on Trump's side is the real scandal of 2016 — and we must take more seriously the threat this interference poses to democratic countries around the world.

For years, Russia and other authoritarian governments have been waging a shadow campaign to discredit democratic institutions worldwide, focusing much of their energy on Europe and former Soviet states in Asia. The goal is not necessarily to prove the superiority of their system, but to diminish the appeal of representative government and to undermine Western leaders by making them seem corrupt or malicious. This war has been waged by propaganda outlets such as Russia Todayand Sputnik News, but also through the spread of misinformation and lies across the Internet.

I have some experience with their methods because for years, Russian propaganda outlets have been spreading the bizarre rumor that I once said Siberia does not belong to Russia. After I denied saying this, Russian officials even claimed that they had read my mind — a capability I did not know they or their friends at Wikileaks had yet developed.

Russia's disinformation campaign against me was not very effective, but I fear its actions against our democracy may inflict real damage.

The Russian government has already hacked into the emails of the Democratic National Committee and Hillary Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta in an effort to create confusion and turn voters off from politics. Over the summer, Russian hackers infiltrated voter registration systems in a handful of states and made attempts in many more.Intelligence officials have also reportedly warned that they may post phony documents showing widespread voter fraud — all in order to create doubt about the validity of the U.S. election results, and to make us seem hypocritical when we question the conduct of elections in other countries.
Experts agree that it would be impossible for any hacker to actually alter election results. But if Russia — with assistance from Trump’s false claims about a rigged election — succeeds in undermining voter confidence in the integrity of the process, it will be a gift to autocrats, despots and illiberal politicians around the world. I have already heard anecdotes about people working to promote free and fair elections in other countries who have had Trump’s words about fraud thrown back at them. It has hurt their credibility and the credibility of American organizations as they promote the benefits of representative government.

It is time for us to regain the upper hand against all those who are attacking our system. But how can we fight back?

First, leaders at the local, state and national levels need to defend the legitimacy of the presidential election. The conduct of our elections is not a partisan issue and the credibility of the process should not be up for debate. The peaceful transfer of power is central to our national identity and to our international credibility. Even in close elections where some irregularities did occur, such as the 2000 presidential election in Florida, both sides followed an established legal process and ultimately respected the outcome. Regardless of what Trump says, Democratic and Republican leaders must leave no doubt that they will uphold democratic principles and the Constitution following the vote.

Second, we need to expose this disinformation campaign and limit its effects. We already have systems in place to monitor Islamic State propaganda on the Internet, and we should do the same for authoritarian propaganda. The U.S. governmentshould work with technology companies to develop better policies to deal with anti-democratic trolling, as they have done with cyberbullying, hate speech and violent extremism. We should launch an educational campaign so that those who are targets of propaganda understand the source and motivations behind it. We also need to offer more assistance to frontline states in Central and Eastern Europe as they stand up against the threat of illiberalism from within and without. This includes speaking to their publics, strengthening political parties and keeping open space for civil society.

Finally, we cannot only be reactive. Ultimately, the best way to counter anti-democratic propaganda is to tell the story of our democracy and do more to support democratic allies and activists around the world.

In recent years, democracy’s friends have been too timid, perhaps worried that the promotion of freedom was given a bad name by those who used it to justify the war in Iraq. While it is true that overselling democracy can be a mistake, selling it short would be an unforgivable error.

The right of people to participate in choosing their own leaders and shaping their own laws has been and remains the most powerful contributor to human progress and global stability. To protect our values and our interests, the United States must once again make strengthening democracy a central tenet of its foreign policy.

This election has reminded us that, in any society, building democracy is never easy and never fully accomplished; it is something to be worked toward, step by step, country by country, day by day. But since the inception of the United States, we have understood how vital it is that we stand together to help freedom succeed. Imposing democracy is an oxymoron, but defending democracy — in our country and abroad — is perhaps our most vital mission.

Madeleine Albright is a former secretary of State of the United States.

Don't look now but it appears that Putin controls the FBI and Anthony Weiner as well

It's all part of the vast right wing conspiracy Hillary talked about as they impeached Bill Clinton for lying under oath.

Funny how history repeats itself.

Democrat Russophobia. Endlessly hilarious!

 

[Correll]

What evidence do you have that Russia hacked and then leaked emails to sway our election?

First, it's more about a constant effort by Russia to undermine western democracy than sway a single election. As powerful as the office of the President of the United States can be, Congress is more powerful and less easily altered. However, if enemy forces can seed dissent and distrust among American citizens, it exacerbates our problems.

As for evidence of Russian hacking, it's not solid but more akin to "where there's smoke, there's fire" line of thinking. Besides, didn't Trump ask them to do so? Why would he ask the Russians and not the Chinese or American hackers? Odd, isn't it?

What is also odd is that clearly Hillary's paranoia led her to use an unsecure email system which, undoubtedly, was hacked. Do anyone have proof it was hacked? Not to my knowledge, but since it was unsecure, it was certainly hackable and as SoS, she would be a prime target for all hackers, not just Russians.

What we know about Russia's role in the DNC email leak
The U.S. government has not yet publicly named the culprit behind the DNC hack. But there seems to be widespread agreement among cybersecurity experts and professionals that the attribution belongs to Russian intelligence actors. Whether Russia hacked the DNC intending to affect the election remains unknown.

"The consensus that Russia hacked the DNC is at this point very strong, albeit not unanimous," said cybersecurity consultant Matt Tait, who has been critical of Clinton’s email practices. "The consensus that Russia hacked the DNC in support of Trump is, by contrast, plausible, but something for which the jury at this stage is very much still out."

WTH?

Nothing PUtin can or has done has caused dissent and distrust among American citizens a TENTH as much as Hillary calling HALF THE NATION, "deplorable".

Not to mention the CONSTANT use of the Race Card by lefty race baiters over the last couple of generations.


There is no reason nor evidence to assume that Trump asked the Russians to do shit.

It was stupid of you to think that the Russians can't make the mental leap that an US president who does not want to fuck with them is in their interests.

 

[Correll]

While it's clearly an impossible task for our alt-right and alt-left members to see things with an open mind, despite the pom-poms Albright dances around this article is, IMHO, excellent and does, indeed, point out a very serious problem facing our nation. Regardless of who wins next week or who runs Congress, our nation's future and democracy are being threatened by Russia and other despotic nations seeking to undermine our way of life and American values. This is not to diminish other scandals or problems facing our nation. It's simply to prioritize those that truly endanger us and those that are simply wrong.

Russian hacking is the real scandal: Madeleine Albright
Democrats have been renewing their calls this week for the FBI to release more information on the connections among Donald Trump, his top advisers and the Russian government. But it is already clear that Russia’s intervention in our election on Trump's side is the real scandal of 2016 — and we must take more seriously the threat this interference poses to democratic countries around the world.

For years, Russia and other authoritarian governments have been waging a shadow campaign to discredit democratic institutions worldwide, focusing much of their energy on Europe and former Soviet states in Asia. The goal is not necessarily to prove the superiority of their system, but to diminish the appeal of representative government and to undermine Western leaders by making them seem corrupt or malicious. This war has been waged by propaganda outlets such as Russia Todayand Sputnik News, but also through the spread of misinformation and lies across the Internet.

I have some experience with their methods because for years, Russian propaganda outlets have been spreading the bizarre rumor that I once said Siberia does not belong to Russia. After I denied saying this, Russian officials even claimed that they had read my mind — a capability I did not know they or their friends at Wikileaks had yet developed.

Russia's disinformation campaign against me was not very effective, but I fear its actions against our democracy may inflict real damage.

The Russian government has already hacked into the emails of the Democratic National Committee and Hillary Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta in an effort to create confusion and turn voters off from politics. Over the summer, Russian hackers infiltrated voter registration systems in a handful of states and made attempts in many more.Intelligence officials have also reportedly warned that they may post phony documents showing widespread voter fraud — all in order to create doubt about the validity of the U.S. election results, and to make us seem hypocritical when we question the conduct of elections in other countries.
Experts agree that it would be impossible for any hacker to actually alter election results. But if Russia — with assistance from Trump’s false claims about a rigged election — succeeds in undermining voter confidence in the integrity of the process, it will be a gift to autocrats, despots and illiberal politicians around the world. I have already heard anecdotes about people working to promote free and fair elections in other countries who have had Trump’s words about fraud thrown back at them. It has hurt their credibility and the credibility of American organizations as they promote the benefits of representative government.

It is time for us to regain the upper hand against all those who are attacking our system. But how can we fight back?

First, leaders at the local, state and national levels need to defend the legitimacy of the presidential election. The conduct of our elections is not a partisan issue and the credibility of the process should not be up for debate. The peaceful transfer of power is central to our national identity and to our international credibility. Even in close elections where some irregularities did occur, such as the 2000 presidential election in Florida, both sides followed an established legal process and ultimately respected the outcome. Regardless of what Trump says, Democratic and Republican leaders must leave no doubt that they will uphold democratic principles and the Constitution following the vote.

Second, we need to expose this disinformation campaign and limit its effects. We already have systems in place to monitor Islamic State propaganda on the Internet, and we should do the same for authoritarian propaganda. The U.S. governmentshould work with technology companies to develop better policies to deal with anti-democratic trolling, as they have done with cyberbullying, hate speech and violent extremism. We should launch an educational campaign so that those who are targets of propaganda understand the source and motivations behind it. We also need to offer more assistance to frontline states in Central and Eastern Europe as they stand up against the threat of illiberalism from within and without. This includes speaking to their publics, strengthening political parties and keeping open space for civil society.

Finally, we cannot only be reactive. Ultimately, the best way to counter anti-democratic propaganda is to tell the story of our democracy and do more to support democratic allies and activists around the world.

In recent years, democracy’s friends have been too timid, perhaps worried that the promotion of freedom was given a bad name by those who used it to justify the war in Iraq. While it is true that overselling democracy can be a mistake, selling it short would be an unforgivable error.

The right of people to participate in choosing their own leaders and shaping their own laws has been and remains the most powerful contributor to human progress and global stability. To protect our values and our interests, the United States must once again make strengthening democracy a central tenet of its foreign policy.

This election has reminded us that, in any society, building democracy is never easy and never fully accomplished; it is something to be worked toward, step by step, country by country, day by day. But since the inception of the United States, we have understood how vital it is that we stand together to help freedom succeed. Imposing democracy is an oxymoron, but defending democracy — in our country and abroad — is perhaps our most vital mission.

Madeleine Albright is a former secretary of State of the United States.

Don't look now but it appears that Putin controls the FBI and Anthony Weiner as well

It's all part of the vast right wing conspiracy Hillary talked about as they impeached Bill Clinton for lying under oath.

Funny how history repeats itself.

Democrat Russophobia. Endlessly hilarious!

Where were these tough guys when the Soviets had ten thousand tanks in the middle of Europe?

 

[Divine Wind]

NOpe. COld War ended and peace broke out for quite some time.....

Ummm....the Soviet Union collapsed and now Putin is trying to put it back together. That's been going on since the Clinton administration.

 

[Divine Wind]

Where were these tough guys when the Soviets had ten thousand tanks in the middle of Europe?

We were in the military. Where were you?

 

[Tehon]

Freedom Rider: Russophobia: War Party Propaganda | Black Agenda Report

Nearly every claim of Russian evil doing is a lie, a ruse meant to put Americans in a fighting mood and lose their fear of nuclear conflagration. It isn’t clear if Clinton and the rest of the would-be warriors actually realize they are risking mushroom clouds. Perhaps they believe that Vladimir Putin will be easily pushed around when all evidence points to the contrary.

The unproven allegations of interference in the presidential election and casting blame on Russia as the sole cause of suffering in Syria are meant to desensitize the public. It is an age old ploy which makes war not just acceptable but deemed a necessity. The usual suspects are helping out eagerly. The corporate media, led by newspapers like the New York Times and Washington Post, are front and center in pushing tales of Russian villainy. Human Rights Watch and other organizations who care nothing about abuses committed by the United States and its allies are also playing their usual role of choosing the next regime change victim.

 

[Divine Wind]

1) I'm amazed at the number of Russophiles on this forum.

2) If President Trump castigated Russia for hacking US computers, how many of this thread's Russophiles would flip-flop on their respect and admiration for Mother Russia and how many would continue to praise Putin and start condemning President Trump?

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

NOpe. COld War ended and peace broke out for quite some time.....

Ummm....the Soviet Union collapsed and now Putin is trying to put it back together. That's been going on since the Clinton administration.

Thanks to your ISIS foundress, he's largely succeeded. Now he needs to redeem the little time he has left before Trump puts a stop to his ambitions.

 

[Divine Wind]

Freedom Rider: Russophobia: War Party Propaganda | Black Agenda Report

Nearly every claim of Russian evil doing is a lie, a ruse meant to put Americans in a fighting mood and lose their fear of nuclear conflagration. It isn’t clear if Clinton and the rest of the would-be warriors actually realize they are risking mushroom clouds. Perhaps they believe that Vladimir Putin will be easily pushed around when all evidence points to the contrary.

The unproven allegations of interference in the presidential election and casting blame on Russia as the sole cause of suffering in Syria are meant to desensitize the public. It is an age old ploy which makes war not just acceptable but deemed a necessity. The usual suspects are helping out eagerly. The corporate media, led by newspapers like the New York Times and Washington Post, are front and center in pushing tales of Russian villainy. Human Rights Watch and other organizations who care nothing about abuses committed by the United States and its allies are also playing their usual role of choosing the next regime change victim.

The Black Panthers are Marxists.

Black Panther's Ten-Point Program

10-10-50 - The African Community Centers for Unity and Self-Det.

http://www.itsabouttimebpp.com/Political_Prisoners/htm/Russell_Returns_to_Solitary_Confinement.htm

 

[Tehon]

Freedom Rider: Russophobia: War Party Propaganda | Black Agenda Report

Nearly every claim of Russian evil doing is a lie, a ruse meant to put Americans in a fighting mood and lose their fear of nuclear conflagration. It isn’t clear if Clinton and the rest of the would-be warriors actually realize they are risking mushroom clouds. Perhaps they believe that Vladimir Putin will be easily pushed around when all evidence points to the contrary.

The unproven allegations of interference in the presidential election and casting blame on Russia as the sole cause of suffering in Syria are meant to desensitize the public. It is an age old ploy which makes war not just acceptable but deemed a necessity. The usual suspects are helping out eagerly. The corporate media, led by newspapers like the New York Times and Washington Post, are front and center in pushing tales of Russian villainy. Human Rights Watch and other organizations who care nothing about abuses committed by the United States and its allies are also playing their usual role of choosing the next regime change victim.

The Black Panthers are Marxists.

Black Panther's Ten-Point Program

10-10-50 - The African Community Centers for Unity and Self-Det.

http://www.itsabouttimebpp.com/Political_Prisoners/htm/Russell_Returns_to_Solitary_Confinement.htm

Okay, what has that to do with US propaganda that demonizes Russia?

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Freedom Rider: Russophobia: War Party Propaganda | Black Agenda Report

Nearly every claim of Russian evil doing is a lie, a ruse meant to put Americans in a fighting mood and lose their fear of nuclear conflagration. It isn’t clear if Clinton and the rest of the would-be warriors actually realize they are risking mushroom clouds. Perhaps they believe that Vladimir Putin will be easily pushed around when all evidence points to the contrary.

The unproven allegations of interference in the presidential election and casting blame on Russia as the sole cause of suffering in Syria are meant to desensitize the public. It is an age old ploy which makes war not just acceptable but deemed a necessity. The usual suspects are helping out eagerly. The corporate media, led by newspapers like the New York Times and Washington Post, are front and center in pushing tales of Russian villainy. Human Rights Watch and other organizations who care nothing about abuses committed by the United States and its allies are also playing their usual role of choosing the next regime change victim.

The Black Panthers are Marxists.

Black Panther's Ten-Point Program

10-10-50 - The African Community Centers for Unity and Self-Det.

http://www.itsabouttimebpp.com/Political_Prisoners/htm/Russell_Returns_to_Solitary_Confinement.htm

Okay, what has that to do with US propaganda that demonizes Russia?

The Russians should be demonized. I'm just surprised it is the Democrats doing it. I'm old enough to remember when the Democrat party defended the Russians' honor against their biggest enemy, Ronald Reagan.

 

[Tehon]

The Russians should be demonized.

For what?

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

The Russians should be demonized.

For what?

Just woke from a coma, did you? Tough break!

 

[Tehon]

The Russians should be demonized.

For what?

Just woke from a coma, did you? Tough break!

You have no answer, thank you.

That's two in one thread.

 

[Divine Wind]

Freedom Rider: Russophobia: War Party Propaganda | Black Agenda Report

Nearly every claim of Russian evil doing is a lie, a ruse meant to put Americans in a fighting mood and lose their fear of nuclear conflagration. It isn’t clear if Clinton and the rest of the would-be warriors actually realize they are risking mushroom clouds. Perhaps they believe that Vladimir Putin will be easily pushed around when all evidence points to the contrary.

The unproven allegations of interference in the presidential election and casting blame on Russia as the sole cause of suffering in Syria are meant to desensitize the public. It is an age old ploy which makes war not just acceptable but deemed a necessity. The usual suspects are helping out eagerly. The corporate media, led by newspapers like the New York Times and Washington Post, are front and center in pushing tales of Russian villainy. Human Rights Watch and other organizations who care nothing about abuses committed by the United States and its allies are also playing their usual role of choosing the next regime change victim.

The Black Panthers are Marxists.

Black Panther's Ten-Point Program

10-10-50 - The African Community Centers for Unity and Self-Det.

http://www.itsabouttimebpp.com/Political_Prisoners/htm/Russell_Returns_to_Solitary_Confinement.htm

Okay, what has that to do with US propaganda that demonizes Russia?

Marxists, Socialists and Communists protect their own kind and all hate both Western democracy and Western capitalism.

How long have you been a Marxist?

 

[Tehon]

Freedom Rider: Russophobia: War Party Propaganda | Black Agenda Report

Nearly every claim of Russian evil doing is a lie, a ruse meant to put Americans in a fighting mood and lose their fear of nuclear conflagration. It isn’t clear if Clinton and the rest of the would-be warriors actually realize they are risking mushroom clouds. Perhaps they believe that Vladimir Putin will be easily pushed around when all evidence points to the contrary.

The unproven allegations of interference in the presidential election and casting blame on Russia as the sole cause of suffering in Syria are meant to desensitize the public. It is an age old ploy which makes war not just acceptable but deemed a necessity. The usual suspects are helping out eagerly. The corporate media, led by newspapers like the New York Times and Washington Post, are front and center in pushing tales of Russian villainy. Human Rights Watch and other organizations who care nothing about abuses committed by the United States and its allies are also playing their usual role of choosing the next regime change victim.

The Black Panthers are Marxists.

Black Panther's Ten-Point Program

10-10-50 - The African Community Centers for Unity and Self-Det.

http://www.itsabouttimebpp.com/Political_Prisoners/htm/Russell_Returns_to_Solitary_Confinement.htm

Okay, what has that to do with US propaganda that demonizes Russia?

Marxists, Socialists and Communists protect their own kind and all hate both Western democracy and Western capitalism.

How long have you been a Marxist?

More deflection from your defenseless position.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Freedom Rider: Russophobia: War Party Propaganda | Black Agenda Report

Nearly every claim of Russian evil doing is a lie, a ruse meant to put Americans in a fighting mood and lose their fear of nuclear conflagration. It isn’t clear if Clinton and the rest of the would-be warriors actually realize they are risking mushroom clouds. Perhaps they believe that Vladimir Putin will be easily pushed around when all evidence points to the contrary.

The unproven allegations of interference in the presidential election and casting blame on Russia as the sole cause of suffering in Syria are meant to desensitize the public. It is an age old ploy which makes war not just acceptable but deemed a necessity. The usual suspects are helping out eagerly. The corporate media, led by newspapers like the New York Times and Washington Post, are front and center in pushing tales of Russian villainy. Human Rights Watch and other organizations who care nothing about abuses committed by the United States and its allies are also playing their usual role of choosing the next regime change victim.

The Black Panthers are Marxists.

Black Panther's Ten-Point Program

10-10-50 - The African Community Centers for Unity and Self-Det.

http://www.itsabouttimebpp.com/Political_Prisoners/htm/Russell_Returns_to_Solitary_Confinement.htm

Okay, what has that to do with US propaganda that demonizes Russia?

Marxists, Socialists and Communists protect their own kind and all hate both Western democracy and Western capitalism.

How long have you been a Marxist?

More deflection from your defenseless position.

Question:

Is observing the fact that if they ever brawled, Putin would twist your boy president into a Taekwondo pretzel make me a Putin lover?

 

[Divine Wind]

Freedom Rider: Russophobia: War Party Propaganda | Black Agenda Report

Nearly every claim of Russian evil doing is a lie, a ruse meant to put Americans in a fighting mood and lose their fear of nuclear conflagration. It isn’t clear if Clinton and the rest of the would-be warriors actually realize they are risking mushroom clouds. Perhaps they believe that Vladimir Putin will be easily pushed around when all evidence points to the contrary.

The unproven allegations of interference in the presidential election and casting blame on Russia as the sole cause of suffering in Syria are meant to desensitize the public. It is an age old ploy which makes war not just acceptable but deemed a necessity. The usual suspects are helping out eagerly. The corporate media, led by newspapers like the New York Times and Washington Post, are front and center in pushing tales of Russian villainy. Human Rights Watch and other organizations who care nothing about abuses committed by the United States and its allies are also playing their usual role of choosing the next regime change victim.

The Black Panthers are Marxists.

Black Panther's Ten-Point Program

10-10-50 - The African Community Centers for Unity and Self-Det.

http://www.itsabouttimebpp.com/Political_Prisoners/htm/Russell_Returns_to_Solitary_Confinement.htm

Okay, what has that to do with US propaganda that demonizes Russia?

Marxists, Socialists and Communists protect their own kind and all hate both Western democracy and Western capitalism.

How long have you been a Marxist?

More deflection from your defenseless position.

Fuck Hillary Clinton. Fuck your hero Vladimir Putin too.

Why do you refuse to answer the question of how long you've been a Marxist? Has it been that many years?

 

[Tehon]

Freedom Rider: Russophobia: War Party Propaganda | Black Agenda Report

Nearly every claim of Russian evil doing is a lie, a ruse meant to put Americans in a fighting mood and lose their fear of nuclear conflagration. It isn’t clear if Clinton and the rest of the would-be warriors actually realize they are risking mushroom clouds. Perhaps they believe that Vladimir Putin will be easily pushed around when all evidence points to the contrary.

The unproven allegations of interference in the presidential election and casting blame on Russia as the sole cause of suffering in Syria are meant to desensitize the public. It is an age old ploy which makes war not just acceptable but deemed a necessity. The usual suspects are helping out eagerly. The corporate media, led by newspapers like the New York Times and Washington Post, are front and center in pushing tales of Russian villainy. Human Rights Watch and other organizations who care nothing about abuses committed by the United States and its allies are also playing their usual role of choosing the next regime change victim.

The Black Panthers are Marxists.

Black Panther's Ten-Point Program

10-10-50 - The African Community Centers for Unity and Self-Det.

http://www.itsabouttimebpp.com/Political_Prisoners/htm/Russell_Returns_to_Solitary_Confinement.htm

Okay, what has that to do with US propaganda that demonizes Russia?

Marxists, Socialists and Communists protect their own kind and all hate both Western democracy and Western capitalism.

How long have you been a Marxist?

More deflection from your defenseless position.

Fuck Hillary Clinton. Fuck your hero Vladimir Putin too.

Why do you refuse to answer the question of how long you've been a Marxist? Has it been that many years?

And fuck John Podesta, don't forget about him, his emails are the reason for all the deflection in the first place.

Your girl Madelein Albright gets an honorable mention in this expose.

 

[Correll]

NOpe. COld War ended and peace broke out for quite some time.....

Ummm....the Soviet Union collapsed and now Putin is trying to put it back together. That's been going on since the Clinton administration.

You words make no sense, and have no connection to recent history.


If the Soviet Union had conquered Western Europe, that shift in economic and military power would have let the SU dominate the world.


If PUtin takes the Ukraine, it won't mean shit outside of the Ukraine.