Russia will never be awarded Ukraine territory gained by Russia's invasion

[AntonToo]

Were the ethnic Russians in the Donbass region more easily able to group themselves together as a defence force

Again, just run the equavalent in US:

Ethnic Mexicans in El Paso, headed and armed by Mexican militants start taking over government buildings and putting Mexican flags on them.

THIS is what you are refering to as "defense".

It's not defense, this is AN INVASION, aided by treasonous collaborators.

And the thing for any not-insane government to do is call in the army, kill off whoever doesn't put down the weapons, retake control and prosecute whoever had any hand in this, be they white, hispanic, Mexican or American or Chinese.

Ethnicity is not what it's about, IT'S THE CRIMINAL SEPARATISM that is the root cause.

 

[AntonToo]

May be, you should be. Anyway, the world will become a bit smarter after your elimination. Darwinian natural selection, you know.

You are doing a great job here as a token Putinist. Bravo.

Listen up useful idiots, this is what goes on in the heads of these degenrate Rushists. This is what Ukraine is defending itself from and this is who you de-facto aid by swallowing and regurgitating Kremlin's propagnda.

 

[Deadstick]

Again, just run the equavalent in US:

Ethnic Mexicans in El Paso, headed and armed by Mexican militants start taking over government buildings and putting Mexican flags on them.

THIS is what you are refering to as "defense".

It's not defense, this is AN INVASION, aided by treasonous collaborators.

And the thing for any not-insane government to do is call in the army, kill off whoever doesn't put down the weapons, retake control and prosecute whoever had any hand in this, be they white, hispanic, Mexican or American or Chinese.

Ethnicity is not what it's about, IT'S THE CRIMINAL SEPARATISM that is the root cause.

At the start they didn't want to be separate all they wanted was autonomy like any other federal set up in other Countries, but were attacked by the Nazis in Kiev, the Ukrainians chose that path so they are paying for it, they will lose the war and lose big that's the bottom line no matter how much whining you do.

 

[JoeB131]

Notice to forum:
In this exchange notice how fast @JoeB131 got angry.
Notice his wording. I told him he appears well educated and he pays me back by terms like wingnuts. I easily hold my own with him thanks to me being 87 and I have been talking of this stuff to citizens for around 30 years on forums. When he defends Putin, notice he is quick to lie and tries to mitigate his very words.

Oh, did I hurt your wittle feelings by calling you a "Wingnut". Look, man, if you are this sensitive, maybe you need a calmer hobby, like needlepoint.

You sputter utter nonsense until I get bored with you. This isn't an accomplishment.

Putin never put a moment into trying to understand Ukraine. Obama handed him Crimea and all that happened later is Putin sent his army into Ukraine and Joe says he understands it. Putin was wrong yet Joe refuses to admit it.

Obama didn't have a choice; the people of Crimea revolted against Kyiv and welcomed the Russians with open arms. It took less than two weeks to take Crimea. What I faulted Obama for was encouraging the Maidan Revolt to start with. He should have realized that was a red line with Russia.

 

[JoeB131]

Not a single word of that refuted what you've quoted. You are down to what-about deflection, not real arguments.

No, it's not what about deflections. It's about once again, sticking our noses into another country's internal affairs and having it turn into another shit show.

Like the rest of Ukraine, Donbass voted for Yanukovich to integrate Ukraine into EU, his own party worked on it for years and for him to UNILATERALY derail the whole process, with zero input from the Parlament and the people was an absolutely ridiculous over-reach. It is belived that Kremlin bribed and pressured him personaly into it.

Okay, now let's look at what really happened.

Yanukovych told Brussels that he would need 15 billion a year to join the EU and stop doing business with Russia. The EU offered a paltry 789 million. Oh, yeah, and they wanted to send EU bureaucrats in to run Ukraine's economy. So, um, yeah, he balked at that and cut a better deal with Russia. Well, not good enough for the EU, they started encouraging the oppossition to rise up.

And by the way, that in itself was not the reason for the Maidan. Revolution of dignity was a national response to Yanukovich deploying Putin style repressions against pro-EU integration protests. Protests demanded that Yanukovich and Berkut, who beat and in some cases killed the protestors were held to account for criminal offenses against the people.

Yes, Yanukovych deployed the army after the EU encouraged people to revolt. You had McCain and other politicians flying in there, telling them we were with them. You had Susan Rice secretly conspiring with the opposition. (Imagine the response if China started conspiring with the Democrats to overthrow Trump.)

You have no idea what you are talking about, Zelensky became president in 2019, we are talking about early stages of the conflict in 2014.

You obviously have very little understanding about events in Ukraine, yet you go all in on Kremlin propaganda.

The Comedian was the one who tried to defeat the LPR and DPR on the battlefield. That's when Russia finally recognized the LPR and DPR and launched an offensive to protect them. Prior to that, they were kind of just tolerated with low-level fighting. (Less than 10,000 casualties over 8 years. Shit, I think we have more than that in Chicago!)

 

[JoeB131]

Again, just run the equavalent in US:

Ethnic Mexicans in El Paso, headed and armed by Mexican militants start taking over government buildings and putting Mexican flags on them.

THIS is what you are refering to as "defense".

It's not defense, this is AN INVASION, aided by treasonous collaborators.

And the thing for any not-insane government to do is call in the army, kill off whoever doesn't put down the weapons, retake control and prosecute whoever had any hand in this, be they white, hispanic, Mexican or American or Chinese.

Ethnicity is not what it's about, IT'S THE CRIMINAL SEPARATISM that is the root cause.

Not sure that is a good analogy, as while we did steal the Southwest from Mexico, most of the Mexicans living there now are recent immigrants.

Ukraine was exactly the opposite. The Donbas wasn't made part of Ukraine until 1922. The Crimea didn't become part of Ukraine until 1954. This was an administrative decision made by Soviet bureaucrats in Moscow, not a reflection of the will of the people.

It also didn't help that Ukraine collaborated with the Germans against Russia/the USSR in both world wars. But let's leave that aside for the moment.

 

[Deadstick]

Oh, did I hurt your wittle feelings by calling you a "Wingnut". Look, man, if you are this sensitive, maybe you need a calmer hobby, like needlepoint.

You sputter utter nonsense until I get bored with you. This isn't an accomplishment.



Obama didn't have a choice; the people of Crimea revolted against Kyiv and welcomed the Russians with open arms. It took less than two weeks to take Crimea. What I faulted Obama for was encouraging the Maidan Revolt to start with. He should have realized that was a red line with Russia.

Obama did realize it but thought he could get away with it.

 

[beagle9]

Again, just run the equavalent in US:

Ethnic Mexicans in El Paso, headed and armed by Mexican militants start taking over government buildings and putting Mexican flags on them.

THIS is what you are refering to as "defense".

It's not defense, this is AN INVASION, aided by treasonous collaborators.

And the thing for any not-insane government to do is call in the army, kill off whoever doesn't put down the weapons, retake control and prosecute whoever had any hand in this, be they white, hispanic, Mexican or American or Chinese.

Ethnicity is not what it's about, IT'S THE CRIMINAL SEPARATISM that is the root cause.

That was a bad example because it can't be applied as a comparison, and well you knew that but you tried it anyway.

 

[Litwin]

That was a bad example because it can't be applied as a comparison, and well you knew that but you tried it anyway.

putin´s brain Dugin
"I think peace is dangerous for us.""If a ceasefire were to occur, God forbid…"

 

[Robert W]

Oh, did I hurt your wittle feelings by calling you a "Wingnut". Look, man, if you are this sensitive, maybe you need a calmer hobby, like needlepoint.

You sputter utter nonsense until I get bored with you. This isn't an accomplishment.

No Joe, you wanted to make this personal. When posters go personal, to me, I will remark that this is what they want to do as opposed to simply keeping it not personal. You have this habit of attacking posters and I see this as a major weakness by you. You get told this by other posters too and of course you do not speak for all of us when you get rejected.

 

[Robert W]

May be, you should be. Anyway, the world will become a bit smarter after your elimination. Darwinian natural selection, you know.

I never approved the wars created by Hitler, Stalin nor Putin. Russia is just starting to recover Stalin's world and of course civilized people have no intentions of putting up with his antics. Europe will halt him though the USA seems to be ready to allow him to make war and keep his illegal gains. Do not tell me America also waged war for illegal purposes since Iraq for one was immediately restored to self-government after we took out Saddam Hussein.

 

[Robert W]

May be, you should be. Anyway, the world will become a bit smarter after your elimination. Darwinian natural selection, you know.

Well, Russia simply lacks the arms, the military forces to actually become Earth's ruler. Why are you discounting what Europe is planning to do to Russia?

 

[beagle9]

Well, Russia simply lacks the arms, the military forces to actually become Earth's ruler. Why are you discounting what Europe is planning to do to Russia?

Does your post prove maybe that Russia is only looking to teach Ukraine a lesson on how not to lean toward western influence in the region), otherwise maybe not allow those who see Russia as their enemy in the world (an easy access into the nation of Ukraine) or to court the west into an admission of Ukraine into NATO in which was created against Russia or Russian expansionism in the world ?

Is it not true that Ukraine is in the Russian sphere of influence, and is within it's protected security zone geographically when it comes to global recognized security zones of the major nation's ??

 

[JoeB131]

No Joe, you wanted to make this personal. When posters go personal, to me, I will remark that this is what they want to do as opposed to simply keeping it not personal. You have this habit of attacking posters and I see this as a major weakness by you. You get told this by other posters too and of course you do not speak for all of us when you get rejected.

Guy, grow a pair.

I attack posters i consider to be idiots.

If they come with a sensible argument (like Anton did) I treat it like a sensible argument.

 

[Robert W]

Guy, grow a pair.

I attack posters i consider to be idiots.

If they come with a sensible argument (like Anton did) I treat it like a sensible argument.

Anton rejects that Putin deserves to take over any part of Ukraine, yet you argue that Putin is correct. I think attacking posters makes posters suspect at the least.

 

[Robert W]

Does your post prove maybe that Russia is only looking to teach Ukraine a lesson on how not to lean toward western influence in the region), otherwise maybe not allow those who see Russia as their enemy in the world (an easy access into the nation of Ukraine) or to court the west into an admission of Ukraine into NATO in which was created against Russia or Russian expansionism in the world ?

Is it not true that Ukraine is in the Russian sphere of influence, and is within it's protected security zone geographically when it comes to global recognized security zones of the major nation's ??

Come to think of it, yes Russia does exist in Ukraine's sphere of influence. I would argue that Ukraine would be wrong had it earlier invaded Russia.

 

[TruthSeeker112125]

Again, just run the equavalent in US:

Ethnic Mexicans in El Paso, headed and armed by Mexican militants start taking over government buildings and putting Mexican flags on them.

THIS is what you are refering to as "defense".

It's not defense, this is AN INVASION, aided by treasonous collaborators.

And the thing for any not-insane government to do is call in the army, kill off whoever doesn't put down the weapons, retake control and prosecute whoever had any hand in this, be they white, hispanic, Mexican or American or Chinese.

Ethnicity is not what it's about, IT'S THE CRIMINAL SEPARATISM that is the root cause.

Explain why it was so good for Yugoslavia to be broken up, with a Great Deal of American MIlitary Assistance by the way,.....But Ukraine be broken is so wrong????

 

[TruthSeeker112125]

Here's a Data Filled,Mind Blowing, Documentary about the cause of the "Ukrainian War".
It's One hour, 36 minutes, & 53 seconds long, & It Absolutely is worth the time to watch it!!

If You Want The Truth.

I've Researched a great deal of what is stated herein, & I say it again,......Putin/Russia did not start this War.
=======================================================================

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Mar 12, 2022

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Oliver Stone’s “Ukraine on Fire” EXPOSES the 2014 Ukraine coup funded in part by George Soros and the US government.

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Youtube just removed Oliver Stone's documentary 'Ukraine on Fire'... Here it is! - Strange Sounds

 

[beagle9]

Come to think of it, yes Russia does exist in Ukraine's sphere of influence. I would argue that Ukraine would be wrong had it earlier invaded Russia.

Throwing away year's and year's of history by your cute attempt to flip that history on it's head, uhhhh does you no favors when it comes to you being a serious poster here. Russia is the bigger dog in the fight, and if the world thinks that Russia can't be goaded into using a tactical nuke in order to stop the war immediately, then people haven't learned history concerning what the United State's had done to Japan in WW2 in order to finally stop that war.

Not sure why historical data isn't being used in order to gauge at what point does a major nuclear power get enough of swatting flies with it's fly swatter, and then feels that it must take it to the next level.

Negotiations for peace are the most important thing ever, and this is because of a nuclear power being involved in war with another in which is a very serious thing. Level heads must prevail instead of the war mongers steadily using instigation and hard core pumping as if they want to actually goad Russia into finally taking it to the next level.

 

[Robert W]

Russia is the bigger dog in the fight, and if the world thinks that Russia can't be goaded into using a tactical nuke in order to stop the war immediately, then people haven't learned history concerning what the United State's had done to Japan in WW2 in order to finally stop that war.

Sure, Russia is bigger. It commenced war against a nation not at war with anybody. Europe is currently determined to end the war, and Russia will not keep territory.

Putin would be crazy to use nuclear bombs.