Russia will never be awarded Ukraine territory gained by Russia's invasion

[JoeB131]

Nato membership is a right had by Ukraine I am sick of this excuse favoring Putin.

Where is it a right?

I'm not even sure what the purpose of NATO is anymore, other than getting the US to subsidize European defense.

 

[Robert W]

Where is it a right?

I'm not even sure what the purpose of NATO is anymore, other than getting the US to subsidize European defense.

Nations​

The United Nations General Assembly adopted the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR) on December 10, 1948, as a common standard of achievement for all peoples and nations. This declaration outlines fundamental human rights to be universally protected and has been translated into over 500 languages. It sets out the rights and freedoms that every individual, everywhere, is entitled to, including the right to life, liberty, and privacy, the right to freedom of thought and conscience, and the right to education. The UDHR is widely recognized as having inspired the adoption of more than seventy human rights treaties, which are applied today on a permanent basis at global and regional levels.

Naciones Unidas

The International Bill of Human Rights includes the UDHR and two international treaties: the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights (ICESCR) and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR). These treaties further shape international human rights and set out the responsibilities of States to respect, protect, and fulfill these rights.

OHCHR

The Universal Covenant on Civil and Political Rights was agreed upon after almost two decades of negotiations and rewriting. It details the basic civil and political rights of individuals and nations, forbids torture and inhuman treatment, and prohibits discrimination based on race, sex, color, national origin, or language.

magnacartaplus.org

The Geneva Convention focuses on the rights of individuals, combatants, and non-combatants during war, ensuring their protection and humane treatment.

magnacartaplus.org

These agreements and declarations represent the collective agreement of nations to uphold and protect the rights of individuals, ensuring a common standard of achievement for all peoples and nations.

Naciones Unidas+4

 

[JoeB131]

Nations​

The United Nations General Assembly adopted the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR) on December 10, 1948, as a common standard of achievement for all peoples and nations. This declaration outlines fundamental human rights to be universally protected and has been translated into over 500 languages. It sets out the rights and freedoms that every individual, everywhere, is entitled to, including the right to life, liberty, and privacy, the right to freedom of thought and conscience, and the right to education. The UDHR is widely recognized as having inspired the adoption of more than seventy human rights treaties, which are applied today on a permanent basis at global and regional levels.
Naciones Unidas
The International Bill of Human Rights includes the UDHR and two international treaties: the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights (ICESCR) and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR). These treaties further shape international human rights and set out the responsibilities of States to respect, protect, and fulfill these rights.
OHCHR
The Universal Covenant on Civil and Political Rights was agreed upon after almost two decades of negotiations and rewriting. It details the basic civil and political rights of individuals and nations, forbids torture and inhuman treatment, and prohibits discrimination based on race, sex, color, national origin, or language.
magnacartaplus.org
The Geneva Convention focuses on the rights of individuals, combatants, and non-combatants during war, ensuring their protection and humane treatment.
magnacartaplus.org
These agreements and declarations represent the collective agreement of nations to uphold and protect the rights of individuals, ensuring a common standard of achievement for all peoples and nations.
Naciones Unidas+4

Okay, none of that is a right to join a hostile military alliance right on Russia's border

Here's the thing, you guys don't seem to get.

When Germany reunified in the early 1990s, US Diplomats promised that we had no intention of expanding NATO.

Instead, we admitted all the former Warsaw Pact Members AND the Baltic States AND the previously neutral Scandinavian countries.

And now you want to admit more former Soviet Republics, and you wonder why Russia might feel a little bit threatened.

Now, here's the thing. What the end result of this has been is to drive Putin into a closer alliance with China, and trying to make the BRICS a bigger deal.

 

[Robert W]

Well, here's the thing. My first three elections, I was associated with the miitary, and Reagan and Poppy Bush were good for the military.

1992, I was done with service and really didn't care for Poppy Bush at that point, but Clinton was a sleaze and Perot was nuts.

It wasn't until 2008 I realized how fucked up the GOP was.

The final straw for me was when the GOP nominated Romney. Which is ironic, since they all hate Romney now.

And both presidents were good for all of America. Romney was never President. Republicans don't hate Romney.
You appear to be well educated, or you are picking up information on the fly due to talking to me and others. When Obama tried very hard to overthrow our government, why did you stick with Democrats?

 

[Robert W]

Okay, none of that is a right to join a hostile military alliance right on Russia's border

Here's the thing you guys don't seem to get.

When Germany reuninifed in the early 1990s, US Diplomats promised that we had no intention of expanding NATO.

Why are you compelled to keep defending Putin's invasion?

 

[JoeB131]

And both presidents were good for all of America. Romney was never President. Republicans don't hate Romney.

Reagan was a ******* disater. Poppy Bush was a bigger disaster, which is why he was shown the door.

Pay attention to what your fellow Wingnuts say about Romney after he criticized Trump. It's not pretty.

You appear to be well educated, or you are picking up information on the fly due to talking to me and others.

Uh, the only thing I pick up talking to you wingnuts is a headache that anyone can be THAT stupid.

When Obama tried very hard to overthrow our government, why did you stick with Democrats?

What the **** are you talking about?

Why are you compelled to keep defending Putin's invasion?

I'm not.

I'm understanding their point of view. Most wars are started because we don't understand the other side's POV until after the shooting starts.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Where is it a right?

I'm not even sure what the purpose of NATO is anymore, other than getting the US to subsidize European defense.

I dont think the NATO countries near Russia suffer from the same, childlike wonderment.

 

[TruthSeeker112125]

Nobody was restricting Russia from using it's base.

Maidan, Yanukovich running off, assignment of acting president - NONE of that had to do with Russia's lease of Sevastopol until 2040's and Russia's full access to it in accordance with the agreement.

Stop making up stupid bullshit.

No "Stupid Bullshit" there. Look at my "Handle",.... It's "Truthseeker", ...... My Faith in The Almighty LORD GOD, requires to strive for The Truth, & If You can't handle The Truth, then pull your panties up, & do some Research, to see whether You are Upholding The Truth.

"Nobody was restricting Russia from using it's base"

True, but the Russians weren't going to waste any time securing what they have used for more than 100 years.

In the meantime, and I'm not a Supporter of any Communist, ....The etRuth of the matter is that Putin/Russia did not start this War, matter of fact,.... The "Twitter-in-Chief", didn't deliver on "Ending it in One Day", as he promised while Campaigning.
Either way,.... Let the Eastern Provinces stay with Russia, so as to Secure a Peace! Hell that was a fantastic idea, under "Slick Willie's" Admin., to break up Yugoslavia, why is it such a Bad Idea now?

If Ukraine, isn't defused, then the threat of a Nuclear War, is pounding on the door! Hell! Where Europe wasn't all in with supplying tanks, missiles, etc., to Ukraine in the beginning,... Now several E.U. nations are acting like they want to go to War with Russia. From several News Sources, France wants to deploy troops to Ukraine!!

This is all Satanically Inspired Insanity!

Let Russia keep the Eastern Provinces. Publicly Flog Zelensky, Hunter Biden,along with the "Kenyan Imposter O'Bama, till their clothes fall off, & Seize all the $$$$/Assets that they have,... Then let the Ukrainian people have them.

Stop NATO from expanding any further to the East, but Strengthen NATO, & The EU, with their Own $$$$, so as to be able to quickly act, "If" Russia makes the wrong move.

All of the "War Hawks", be they Democrat or Republican, "Have no Skin in this". In fact,... If they want a conflict with Russia so bad, then their Own Sons & Daughters, should be forced to take a "Combat Position" in it.

Don't Misunderstand me,.....I'm All about America returning to it's Military Power that POTUS Ronald Reagan built up, BUT,..... I'm flat out against starting any more Unjustified, & Undeclared Wars!!

And if they Declare War,.... Then Everybody of Military Age gets Drafted, & Our Forces are to be given a "Clear, & Precise Objective", & then they Return Home.

Putin did not Start this war.

 

[Robert W]

Reagan was a ******* disater. Poppy Bush was a bigger disaster, which is why he was shown the door.

Pay attention to what your fellow Wingnuts say about Romney after he criticized Trump. It's not pretty.


Uh, the only thing I pick up talking to you wingnuts is a headache that anyone can be THAT stupid.


What the **** are you talking about?

I'm not.

I'm understanding their point of view. Most wars are started because we don't understand the other side's POV until after the shooting starts.

Notice to forum:
In this exchange notice how fast JoeB131 got angry.
Notice his wording. I told him he appears well educated and he pays me back by terms like wingnuts. I easily hold my own with him thanks to me being 87 and I have been talking of this stuff to citizens for around 30 years on forums. When he defends Putin, notice he is quick to lie and tries to mitigate his very words.

Putin never put a moment into trying to understand Ukraine. Obama handed him Crimea and all that happened later is Putin sent his army into Ukraine and Joe says he understands it. Putin was wrong yet Joe refuses to admit it.

 

[AntonToo]

Where in the law and political process does it say, "Overthrow the President if he doesn't agree to be the EU's *****"?

Not a single word of that refuted what you've quoted. You are down to what-about deflection, not real arguments.

Like the rest of Ukraine, Donbass voted for Yanukovich to integrate Ukraine into EU, his own party worked on it for years and for him to UNILATERALY derail the whole process, with zero input from the Parlament and the people was an absolutely ridiculous over-reach. It is belived that Kremlin bribed and pressured him personaly into it.

And by the way, that in itself was not the reason for the Maidan. Revolution of dignity was a national response to Yanukovich deploying Putin style repressions against pro-EU integration protests. Protests demanded that Yanukovich and Berkut, who beat and in some cases killed the protestors were held to account for criminal offenses against the people.

 

[AntonToo]

No "Stupid Bullshit" there. Look at my "Handle",.... It's "Truthseeker", ...... My Faith in The Almighty LORD GOD, requires to strive for The Truth, & If You can't handle The Truth, then pull your panties up, & do some Research, to see whether You are Upholding The Truth.

"Nobody was restricting Russia from using it's base"

True, but the Russians weren't going to waste any time securing what they have used for more than 100 years.

In the meantime, and I'm not a Supporter of any Communist, ....The etRuth of the matter is that Putin/Russia did not start this War, matter of fact,.... The "Twitter-in-Chief", didn't deliver on "Ending it in One Day", as he promised while Campaigning.
Either way,.... Let the Eastern Provinces stay with Russia, so as to Secure a Peace! Hell that was a fantastic idea, under "Slick Willie's" Admin., to break up Yugoslavia, why is it such a Bad Idea now?

If Ukraine, isn't defused, then the threat of a Nuclear War, is pounding on the door! Hell! Where Europe wasn't all in with supplying tanks, missiles, etc., to Ukraine in the beginning,... Now several E.U. nations are acting like they want to go to War with Russia. From several News Sources, France wants to deploy troops to Ukraine!!

This is all Satanically Inspired Insanity!

Let Russia keep the Eastern Provinces. Publicly Flog Zelensky, Hunter Biden,along with the "Kenyan Imposter O'Bama, till their clothes fall off, & Seize all the $$$$/Assets that they have,... Then let the Ukrainian people have them.

Stop NATO from expanding any further to the East, but Strengthen NATO, & The EU, with their Own $$$$, so as to be able to quickly act, "If" Russia makes the wrong move.

All of the "War Hawks", be they Democrat or Republican, "Have no Skin in this". In fact,... If they want a conflict with Russia so bad, then their Own Sons & Daughters, should be forced to take a "Combat Position" in it.

Don't Misunderstand me,.....I'm All about America returning to it's Military Power that POTUS Ronald Reagan built up, BUT,..... I'm flat out against starting any more Unjustified, & Undeclared Wars!!

And if they Declare War,.... Then Everybody of Military Age gets Drafted, & Our Forces are to be given a "Clear, & Precise Objective", & then they Return Home.

Putin did not Start this war.

Damn, you are seriously out there.

 

[AntonToo]

Given we are probably 10 years from a second civil war in this country, we'll see.

So the Comedian did what you said, and then acted all surprised when Putin did what he said he would do if he tried it.

You have no idea what you are talking about, Zelensky became president in 2019, we are talking about early stages of the conflict in 2014.

You obviously have very little understanding about events in Ukraine, yet you go all in on Kremlin propaganda.

 

[TruthSeeker112125]

Damn, you are seriously out there.

Indeed.

 

[TruthSeeker112125]

You have no idea what you are talking about, Zelensky became president in 2019, we are talking about early stages of the conflict in 2014.

You obviously have very little understanding about events in Ukraine, yet you go all in on Kremlin propaganda.

Russia did not invade Ukraine until Feb. 2022

 

[AntonToo]

Russia did not invade Ukraine until Feb. 2022

That is a crazy statement considering that Putin himself admitted that take over of Crimea was a millitary operation he ordered.

Putin reveals secrets of Russia's Crimea takeover plot

Vladimir Putin admits for the first time that Russia's annexation of Crimea began weeks before its disputed referendum on self-determination.

www.bbc.com

 

[TruthSeeker112125]

That is a crazy statement considering that Putin himself admitted that take over of Crimea was a millitary operation he ordered.

Putin reveals secrets of Russia's Crimea takeover plot

Vladimir Putin admits for the first time that Russia's annexation of Crimea began weeks before its disputed referendum on self-determination.

www.bbc.com

Ok Anton, I reckon that like Trump, "You Know All that There is to Know".

But then You'll have issues with many of the Web sites such as Britannica, The BBC that U just referenced, Wiki, NPR, & more.

Hey! I just put in a very loooong day. I'm going to bed.

 

[beagle9]

Well there you go again, repeating obvious Kremlin propaganda bullshit.

When are you going to be able to answer this simple question:

Ehtnic Russians are 20%+ of population all over Ukraine, so why is it that they were only threatened in Donbass?

Could it possibly be because so called "ethnic Russians in the Donbass" headed by Russian Federation militants took up arms, started taking over cities and putting foreign flags on government buildings?


What would happen if a bunch of Spanish speaking men, under Mexican millitant command, would violently take over El-Paso and started putting up Mexican flags on American gov buildings? A lot of shooting would start to happen obviously and how stupid would you be to then start talking about "threat to Ethnic Mexicans in El Paso" as the cause?

Were the ethnic Russians in the Donbass region more easily able to group themselves together as a defence force, and do so more than in the other area's of Ukraine(?), and therefore they did so in that area or region better than the ethnic Russians could within the other area's of Ukraine(?), otherwise in parts of Ukraine that may have been under tighter control by the Ukranians that were on the brink of civil war with the Ethnic Russian population residing in the eastern sectors back in 2014 ???

Were Ethnic Russians spread out in other area's in a much thinner more fragile group of individual's within Ukraine, otherwise who would have found it harder to group together than in the Donbass region of Ukraine where the ethnic Russian speaking people/population were more abundant ???

 

[Zavulon]

Nato membership is a right had by Ukraine I am sick of this excuse favoring Putin.

No problem. You have a choice, to be sick because of Trumps actions, or dead because of Putin's counteractions.
Cuba has right to deploy Soviet nuclear missiles, but reality is a *****.

 

[Robert W]

No problem. You have a choice, to be sick because of Trumps actions, or dead because of Putin's counteractions.
Cuba has right to deploy Soviet nuclear missiles, but reality is a *****.

You are actually afraid of Putin. Well, I am not.

 

[Zavulon]

You are actually afraid of Putin. Well, I am not.

May be, you should be. Anyway, the world will become a bit smarter after your elimination. Darwinian natural selection, you know.