Russia Continues Advance Toward The Dnieper

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The English speaking world typically calls it the Dnipro river.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I don't think that the USA is that worthless by themselves. May be, "beauty is in the eye of beholder" and I, as a pro-American guy, is overestimating you, but, as for me, "no NATO" vise versa, means possibility of new and better alliances.


Iraq was not "justificated" at all.


And it pushed a lot of countries to Russia's side.


The USA or some freaking globalists? They use Middle East as a source of oil, they use the USA as a source of manpower, but what ordinary Arabs and Americans got because of it? How many American families have a house that belongs to them (not to a landlord or a bank)? How many Americans can teach their children in the drug-free and LGBT-free schools? What you really got in exchange for you American dream and American independence?

What other alliances could there be? Russia and China will always be opposed to the US as long as they're dictatorships and the US isn't (or isn't trying to become one)

The US justified the Iraq War to those who mattered, they got away with it, to a certain degree. Only Iran pushed back.

The US only cares about money. Trump even more so. Watch Trump be pro-China again, TikTok will be the first example. Musk wants good relations so he can get rich in China, so Trump will give him what he wants.

 

[Zavulon]

What other alliances could there be? Russia and China will always be opposed to the US as long as they're dictatorships and the US isn't (or isn't trying to become one)

Of course no. Russia was ally of the USA in the war against Germany, and China was ally of the USA in the war against Japan.

The US justified the Iraq War to those who mattered, they got away with it, to a certain degree. Only Iran pushed back.

Not at all. There are five members of SC UN, and two of them didn't consider this war as "justified".

The US only cares about money. Trump even more so. Watch Trump be pro-China again, TikTok will be the first example. Musk wants good relations so he can get rich in China, so Trump will give him what he wants.

Ok. We'll see.

 

[AZrailwhale]

The fact that the Russian economy is falling, or more accurately, being driven off a cliff by Putin and you are his knowing stooge.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Of course no. Russia was ally of the USA in the war against Germany, and China was ally of the USA in the war against Japan.

Not at all. There are five members of SC UN, and two of them didn't consider this war as "justified".


Ok. We'll see.

I really wish you would do at least a little research before making yourself look even more stupid. There aren’t FIVE members of the Security Council, there are FIFTEEN.

Russia was never an ally in WWII, no matter what the propaganda said. Russia was a co-belligerent at best. The USSR did nothing in the Great Patriotic War as you would call it except defend itself from its real ally Nazi Germany. Russia waited until Japan was totally defeated before jumping against a Kwantung Army that had been stripped of trained troops and its best equipment for the defense of Japan to grab every profit it could for minimal cost. Russia only defended itself and took vengeance of Germany while demanding greater and greater levels of monetary, material and military support from the WAllies. When WAllied military personnel fell into a Russian hands they were imprisioned rather than repatriated. When WAllied Air Force and naval units were in Soviet territory, the personnel were isolated like they carried a horrible, infectious disease and were confined by NKVD units to the harbor or air base they were allowed access to. Conditions were so bad during Operation Frantic that it was discontinued after only seven missions due to hostility from Russian political and military leadership. Rather than establishing the six permanent USAAF bases promised by vestal in at the Teheran Conference after both FDR and Churchill brought pressure to bear on Stalin. Every member of the WAllies suppported each other with bases, personnel, food, munitions and money. Russia did none of those things, it was always gimme, gimme, gimme from Russia.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Of course no. Russia was ally of the USA in the war against Germany, and China was ally of the USA in the war against Japan.

Not at all. There are five members of SC UN, and two of them didn't consider this war as "justified".


Ok. We'll see.

If even one of the permanent Security Council members considered the war wrong, it could have blocked the whole thing by a simple veto.

 

[Zavulon]

If even one of the permanent Security Council members considered the war wrong, it could have blocked the whole thing by a simple veto.

Actually, the USA invaded Iraq without even asking permission of SC UN because they knew that three of permanent SC UN members - Russia, France and China were actively against it.

Why the Security Council Failed

One thing the current Iraq crisis has made clear is that a grand experiment of the twentieth century—the attempt to impose binding international law on the use of force—has failed. As Washington showed, nations need consider not whether armed intervention abroad is legal, merely whether it is...

www.foreignaffairs.com

Its behind paywal, but as for me, the article worth reading.

 

[Kruska]

Actually, the USA invaded Iraq without even asking permission of SC UN because they knew that three of permanent SC UN members - Russia, France and China were actively against it.

Why the Security Council Failed

One thing the current Iraq crisis has made clear is that a grand experiment of the twentieth century—the attempt to impose binding international law on the use of force—has failed. As Washington showed, nations need consider not whether armed intervention abroad is legal, merely whether it is...

www.foreignaffairs.com

Its behind paywal, but as for me, the article worth reading.

IMO, there is absolutely no need to discuss about the UNSC - since it has endlessly proven to be the most useless international organization on the globe. Thanks to ALL these Veto buggers.

 

[Kruska]

What other alliances could there be? Russia and China will always be opposed to the US as long as they're dictatorships and the US isn't (or isn't trying to become one)

Nothing to do with a respective government system - those who aspire global or regional control/hegemony will always find reasons to oppose each other. And alliances can always be reshuffled.

E.g. if China for whatever reason would decide to drop Pakistan - India&China would very likely become an alliance that the USA would fear far more, then a Russian-Chinese cooperation on behalf of restricting US global hegemony.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Of course no. Russia was ally of the USA in the war against Germany, and China was ally of the USA in the war against Japan.

Not at all. There are five members of SC UN, and two of them didn't consider this war as "justified".


Ok. We'll see.

Yeah, well... if Russia and China suddenly decide to hate each other, it might happen.... they don't particularly like each other, but they hate the US more, and that's why they have their uncomfortable relationship.

In 2003 Russia and China were weak. They didn't matter. That's why the US got away with it so easily.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Nothing to do with a respective government system - those who aspire global or regional control/hegemony will always find reasons to oppose each other. And alliances can always be reshuffled.

E.g. if China for whatever reason would decide to drop Pakistan - India&China would very likely become an alliance that the USA would fear far more, then a Russian-Chinese cooperation on behalf of restricting US global hegemony.

Thing is, Russia and China have never liked each other, they've had conflict in the past, they share a border, want control of Mongolia, have interests in some of the -stan countries that were Soviet and the like.

China is friendly with Pakistan for the simple reason that China and India hate each other. China claims one whole province of India, controls the waters that flow down into India.

There's no way India and China are ever going to be allies. They hate each other.

 

[Kruska]

Yeah, well... if Russia and China suddenly decide to hate each other, it might happen.... they don't particularly like each other, but they hate the US more, and that's why they have their uncomfortable relationship.

China has no problem with Russia and Russians as such at all - since they both profit from an economic partnership.
China and the Chinese don't hate the USA at all - on the contra they envy the USA and aspire to be just as strong and innovative as the USA.

It's the USA that uses e.g. Taiwan to exert international pressure onto China - and always gets involved in other countries internal affairs.
And this "uninvited involvement" causes tension between China and the USA, as well as tension between e.g. Russia and the USA.

In 2003 Russia and China were weak. They didn't matter. That's why the US got away with it so easily.

Correct

 

[frigidweirdo]

China has no problem with Russia and Russians as such at all - since they both profit from an economic partnership.
China and the Chinese don't hate the USA at all - on the contra they envy the USA and aspire to be just as strong and innovative as the USA.

It's the USA that uses e.g. Taiwan to exert international pressure onto China - and always gets involved in other countries internal affairs.
And this "uninvited involvement" causes tension between China and the USA, as well as tension between e.g. Russia and the USA.

Correct

You reckon? They don't see eye to eye on almost anything. They tolerate each other because.... the US is the common enemy. Stalin and Mao hated each other, Xi and Putin hate each other. The Russians are just totally different in their world view to the Chinese.

Oh, the Chinese dream is to move to the US. Don't get me wrong, the people of China love the US and Japan the most, but they're also manipulated by the politicians, who hate the US and Japan, or at least use them to create a common enemy.

 

[gipper]

You reckon? They don't see eye to eye on almost anything. They tolerate each other because.... the US is the common enemy. Stalin and Mao hated each other, Xi and Putin hate each other. The Russians are just totally different in their world view to the Chinese.

Oh, the Chinese dream is to move to the US. Don't get me wrong, the people of China love the US and Japan the most, but they're also manipulated by the politicians, who hate the US and Japan, or at least use them to create a common enemy.

You’re living in the past, as many Americans seem to do.

 

[Kruska]

Thing is, Russia and China have never liked each other, they've had conflict in the past, they share a border, want control of Mongolia, have interests in some of the -stan countries that were Soviet and the like.

China is friendly with Pakistan for the simple reason that China and India hate each other. China claims one whole province of India, controls the waters that flow down into India.

There's no way India and China are ever going to be allies. They hate each other.

Since it was the USA that tried to get India involved in regards to occupying Tibet - naturally China repulsed India's and the CIA's aspirations.

The "strange relationship" between Indians and Chinese is the result of the Colonial habits exercised by the British in China and HK- there was never a dislike between Indians and Chinese before the late 18th century. Since they never shared a common border nor had they regional hegemonic aspirations towards each other.

Both India, aka Indian Kingdoms and China had never engaged in a military confrontation for the past 2500 years. But both had peacefully traded with each other. China rightfully does not accept the McMahon line - whilst India "due to known reasons" propagates it's Colonial masters border claims.

Russia and China only had a troubled relationship, due to Czarist Russia having intruded into Chinese territory - just as all the other colonial powers, incl. the USA. Later Stalin thought that he could control Mao - whilst Mao showed him the middle-finger.

It has always been Russia's historically embedded fear towards Mongols and as such also the 200 years Mongol Dynasty in China - that relentlessly has kept an unfounded fear by Russians against China - especially in case of an "awakening" China. Since Russia is fully aware that it's huge country (foremost Siberia) with a sparse population -compared to China- would never be able to protect it's territory.

As for the State of Mongolia - they are up-keeping utmost neutrality, unlike Ukraine - as such Mongolia is no threat to either side.

 

[Kruska]

You reckon? They don't see eye to eye on almost anything. They tolerate each other because.... the US is the common enemy. Stalin and Mao hated each other, Xi and Putin hate each other. The Russians are just totally different in their world view to the Chinese.

Oh, the Chinese dream is to move to the US. Don't get me wrong, the people of China love the US and Japan the most, but they're also manipulated by the politicians, who hate the US and Japan, or at least use them to create a common enemy.

You are somehow anchored in a very fictive world view - based onto occurrences dating back 200 years and more.

According to your "impressions-convictions" Spain & Mexico hate the USA and Americans - since em Yanks stole Texas, California, Cuba, Philippines, etc. etc. And the UK hates the USA the most - since em Yank-colonials stole them colonies and murdered British troops.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Since it was the USA that tried to get India involved in regards to occupying Tibet - naturally China repulsed India's and the CIA's aspirations.

The "strange relationship" between Indians and Chinese is the result of the Colonial habits exercised by the British in China and HK- there was never a dislike between Indians and Chinese before the late 18th century. Since they never shared a common border nor had they regional hegemonic aspirations towards each other.

Both India, aka Indian Kingdoms and China had never engaged in a military confrontation for the past 2500 years. But both had peacefully traded with each other. China rightfully does not accept the McMahon line - whilst India "due to known reasons" propagates it's Colonial masters border claims.

Russia and China only had a troubled relationship, due to Czarist Russia having intruded into Chinese territory - just as all the other colonial powers, incl. the USA. Later Stalin thought that he could control Mao - whilst Mao showed him the middle-finger.

It has always been Russia's historically embedded fear towards Mongols and as such also the 200 years Mongol Dynasty in China - that relentlessly has kept an unfounded fear by Russians against China - especially in case of an "awakening" China. Since Russia is fully aware that it's huge country (foremost Siberia) with a sparse population -compared to China- would never be able to protect it's territory.

As for the State of Mongolia - they are up-keeping utmost neutrality, unlike Ukraine - as such Mongolia is no threat to either side.

Yes, I think you've given a pretty good summary of the situation.

However I'd say the mentality of the Russians, especially strong man Putin, and China with strong man Xi, are completely different strong men. Putin gets on the back of a horse, does ice hockey, has a mistress, Xi is married to an actress, eats large dinners too often (as do all higher up officials). It's a different mentality.

Mongolia isn't a threat, and doesn't offer much either. So it isn't much of an issue, but I'm sure there's a certain amount of pressure put on Mongolia by both sides.

 

[frigidweirdo]

You are somehow anchored in a very fictive world view - based onto occurrences dating back 200 years and more.

According to your "impressions-convictions" Spain & Mexico hate the USA and Americans - since em Yanks stole Texas, California, Cuba, Philippines, etc. etc. And the UK hates the USA the most - since em Yank-colonials stole them colonies and murdered British troops.

China is stuck back in the past.

Hates Japan more than anyone else, why? Because of what happened in WW2.



Check this out, I'm learning Chinese and this is a little difficult for me, but it has English subtitles, or Chinese subtitles if you can.

History is a big anchor for Chinese imperialism. They HATE imperialism, for obvious reasons, but still want to annex loads of land. The South China Seas is hilarious, they "found a map" and the BBC went to interview the dude with the map, and he said he threw it away because you couldn't make anything out from it.

The Senkaku Islands, or the Diaoyu Islands (the fishing islands) were called the Senkaku Islands (Japanese) by Mao. When they realized the islands were strategic, might have oil etc, the Chinese suddenly went for history and found a few excuses for why they're Chinese.

Chinese kids know two places on a map of China. Taiwan and Xinjiang. Why? Because they're what the government wants to make sure everyone knows are Chinese.

History is SUPER IMPORTANT for their justifications.

Who is on the banknotes? Mao, still. Why? Xi uses Mao as his justification for control and power.

All history.

 

[Kruska]

Yes, I think you've given a pretty good summary of the situation.

I do hope so

However I'd say the mentality of the Russians, especially strong man Putin, and China with strong man Xi, are completely different strong men. Putin gets on the back of a horse, does ice hockey, has a mistress, Xi is married to an actress, eats large dinners too often (as do all higher up officials). It's a different mentality.

ALL Chinese enjoy opulent dinners - it's a main part of their culture.
China's top politicians ALL derive from political elite schools - they are Bureaucrats pure, the macho behavior is restricted to e.g. criminal gangs in HK and Shenzhen - whilst military prowess is generated in military elite schools - and carried out by rural Chinese who are traditionally opposed to being business people - they also vary greatly from "standard" Chinese in view of physical aspects.

As a matter of fact, these rural Chinese are very similar in cultural and social behavior to Russians and Americans.

BTW - Xi is married to a former Military Choir singer.

Mongolia isn't a threat, and doesn't offer much either. So it isn't much of an issue, but I'm sure there's a certain amount of pressure put on Mongolia by both sides.

The side that pressures Mongolia the most is factually the USA - same goes for e.g. Kazakhstan and other former Asian Soviet Republics.
And this is one of the major areas where China and Russia indeed cooperate - thwarting US attempts to get their hands onto those countries. Via the e.g. Shanghai Cooperation Organization - SCO.

 

[Zavulon]

IMO, there is absolutely no need to discuss about the UNSC - since it has endlessly proven to be the most useless international organization on the globe. Thanks to ALL these Veto buggers.

Yes, that's was the logic of the USA back in 2003. And as UNSC was the keystone of post-WWII world order, its elimination caused WWIII. If you think that the USA and UK can ignore three other nuclear powers - Russia, China and France and do whatever they want (including unprovoked attacks against independent countries) - ok, its time to prove that you are wrong. No more UN SC, means no more international law, and it means that might is right.