Ringo
Gold Member
Berliner Zeitung interview - Roger Waters
THE TRUTH WILL SET US FREE
Amidst the outrageous and despicable smear campaign by the Israel lobby to denounce me as an anti-Semite, which I am not, am not, and never will be. Against the backdrop of them trying to silence me because I give my voice to the 75-year struggle for equal human rights for all my brothers and sisters in Palestine/Israel, regardless of their ethnicity, religion or nationality. With the Israeli lobby trying to cancel my series of concerts in Germany, 85% of which have already been sold out, the national newspaper Berliner Zeitung courageously published a detailed interview with me today in its Saturday edition. Thank you very much, gentlemen.
And to my fans who have bought tickets for the upcoming concerts in Europe I say:
Don't be afraid! I will definitely be there!
I won't let any wild horses get me down that road. Nor will this apartheid selection help.
THE TRUTH WILL SET US FREE.
Love, Roger.
Roger Waters can rightfully claim to be the inspiration for Pink Floyd. He conceived the concept and wrote all the lyrics for the masterpiece The Dark Side of the Moon, he wrote most of the music and all the lyrics for the albums Animals and The Wall, and the album The Final Cut was composed by himself. So Roger is planning to go to Germany on his current This Is Not A Drill tour in May to present this legacy of the classic Pink Floyd period. But there's one problem: Because of the controversial statements he's made about the war in Ukraine and the politics of the state of Israel, his concerts in Poland have already been canceled, and in Germany, Jewish and Christian organizations are demanding the same. It's time to talk to the 79-year-old musician: What does he mean? Could it be that by cancelling the concerts, he was simply misunderstood? Would it be legitimate to exclude him from the conversation? Or has there emerged a societal problem of wanting to ban dissenters - like Waters - from the conversation?
The musician receives visitors at his residence in the south of England. Greeting, open, unpretentious, but determined - this is how he will remain throughout the conversation. First, however, he wants to showcase something special: In the studio of his home, he plays us new versions of three compositions from The Dark Side of the Moon, which, incidentally, turns fifty years old in March.
"The new concept is meant to reflect the meaning of the work, to bring out the heart and soul of the album," he says, "musically and spiritually. I'm the only one who sings my songs on these new recordings, and there are no rock 'n' roll guitar solos. It's about the voice of reason. And it says: it's not the power of our kings and leaders and their supposed connection to God that matters. What really matters is the connection between us as human beings, the whole human community. We humans are scattered all over the globe, but we are all connected because we all come from Africa. We are all brothers and sisters. Or at least distant cousins. But the way we treat each other is destroying our home, planet Earth, and faster than we can imagine. For example, right here, right now, in the year 2023, we are engaged in an already year-long proxy war with Russia in Ukraine. Why?
Well, a little history: in 2004, Russian President Vladimir Putin reached out to the West in an attempt to build the architecture of peace in Europe. It's all documented. He explained that Western plans to invite Ukraine into NATO after the first Maidan coup posed a completely unacceptable existential threat to the Russian Federation. He said that by doing so they would cross a red line that could end in war. So let's try to get together at the negotiating table and agree on a peaceful future. But his well-meaning aspirations were rejected by the United States and its NATO allies. Since then, he has consistently defended his position, while NATO has consistently defended its "Fuck you. And here we are now."
Mr. Waters, you talk about the voice of reason, the deep connection of all people. But when it comes to the war in Ukraine, you talk a lot about the mistakes of the United States and the West, not about Russia's war and Russian aggression. Why aren't you protesting the actions taken by Russia? I know you supported Pussy Riot and other human rights organizations in Russia. Why aren't you attacking Putin?
"First of all, if you read my letter to Putin and my articles about starting the war in February..."
...You called him a "gangster."
"Yes, there was that. But I may have changed my mind a bit in the last year. There's a podcast from Cyprus called The Duran. The hosts there speak Russian and can read Putin's speeches in the original. Their comments on this are clear to me. The most important reason for supplying arms to Ukraine is clearly profit for the arms industry. And I wonder: is Putin a bigger gangster than Joe Biden and all those in charge of American policy since World War II? I'm not so sure! Did Putin invade Vietnam or Iraq? Did he?"
The most important reason for supplying weapons is the following: it is to support Ukraine, to win the war, and to stop Russian aggression. You seem to see it differently.
"Yes. Maybe I shouldn't have, but now I'm more open to listening to what Putin is really saying. Listening to independent sources of information, I understand that he governs cautiously, making decisions based on consensus in the Russian government. There are also critical intellectuals in Russia who have opposed U.S. imperialism since the 1950s. And the central idea has always been, "Ukraine is a red line. The country must remain neutral, a buffer territory. If it doesn't, we don't know where that will lead." And we still don't know, but it could end up in World War III."
Last February, it was Putin who decided to attack.
"He started what he still calls a 'special military operation.' He started it, if I understand it correctly, for the following reasons: 1. We want to stop the potential genocide of the Russian-speaking population of Donbass. 2. We want to fight Nazism in Ukraine.
There is this Alina, a teenager from Ukraine, with whom I corresponded in long letters. I wrote: "I hear you. I understand your pain." She wrote back, thanking me, but stressing that she was sure I was wrong: "I am 200% sure there are no Nazis in Ukraine." I answered again: "I'm sorry, Alina, but you are wrong. How can you live in Ukraine and not know that?"
There is no evidence that there was a genocide in Ukraine. Yet Putin has repeatedly emphasized that he wants Ukraine back in his empire. Putin told former German Chancellor Angela Merkel that the saddest day of his life was in 1989 (1991, note) when the Soviet Union collapsed.
"Isn't the word 'Ukraine' the Russian word for 'okra'? For a long time it was part of Russia and the Soviet Union. It's a complicated history. I believe that during World War II, most of the population of western Ukraine chose to cooperate with the Nazis. They killed Jews, gypsies, communists, and anyone else the Third Reich wanted to destroy. To this day there is a conflict between Western Ukraine and Southeastern Ukraine (Crimea and Donbass). There are many Russian-speaking Ukrainians because this territory has been part of Russia for hundreds of years. How can you solve such a problem? It can't be done by the Kiev government, nor by a victory for the Russians. Putin has always emphasized that he's not interested in taking over Western Ukraine or invading Poland or any other country. What he is saying is this: I want to protect the Russian-speaking population in those parts of Ukraine where they feel threatened by the extreme right-wing governments influenced by the Maidan coup d'etat in Kiev. The 2014 coup d'état, which admittedly was orchestrated by the United States."
We have spoken to many Ukrainians who can prove otherwise. The U.S. may have helped support the 2014 protests. But on the whole, authoritative sources and eyewitness accounts suggest that the protests arose from within - by the will of the Ukrainian people.
"I wonder what kind of Ukrainians you've talked to? I can imagine that some claim exactly that. But on the other side of that coin is this: the vast majority of Ukrainians in Crimea and Donbass voted in referendums to reunite with the Russian Federation."
In February you were surprised that Putin attacked Ukraine. How can you be so sure he won't go further? Your confidence in Russia doesn't seem to be undermined, despite the bloody war of aggression on its part.
"And how can I be sure that the U.S. won't risk starting a nuclear war with China? They are already provoking the Chinese by meddling in Taiwan. But first, they would like to destroy Russia. Anyone with an IQ above a critical minimum understands this from reading the news. And even Americans admit it."
You annoy a lot of people because your remarks sound like you're defending Putin.
"In the background of Biden. The US/NATO provocations that took place before February 2022 were marginal and very damaging to the interests of all the common people of Europe."
Would you not boycott Russia?
"I think it's counterproductive. Here you are living in Europe. How much does the U.S. charge you for gas supplies? Five times more than their own citizens pay for gas. In England, people are now saying "eat or drown" because the poor can barely afford to heat their homes. Western governments need to realize that we are all brothers and sisters. During World War II, they saw what happens when they try to wage war against Russia. Russians will unite and fight to the last ruble and the last square meter of land defending the homeland. Just like any other nation. I think that if the US can convince its citizens, you and many others, that Russia is the real enemy and Putin is the new Hitler, it will be easier for them to steal from the poor to give to the rich, and to encourage more wars, in the same spirit as this mediated war in Ukraine. This may seem like an extreme political stance to you, but apparently the history I study and the news I analyze is just different from yours. You can't believe everything you see on TV or read in the newspapers. All I am trying to accomplish with my new writings and my statements and speeches is for our brothers and sisters in power to stop the war. And that people realize that our brothers and sisters in Russia live under no more repressive dictatorship than you do in Germany, or I do in the United States. I mean, if we had the power to stop the bloodshed between young Ukrainians and Russians, would we really choose to continue the bloodshed?"
Well, for example, we could do this interview. In Russia, something like this would not be so easy... But back to Ukraine. What might be your political counterproposal for a meaningful Western policy toward Ukraine?
"We need to get all of our leaders around the table and get them to say, "No more war!" And from that point we could start a dialogue."
Can you imagine living in Russia?
"Yes, of course, why not? It would be just like with my neighbors here in the south of England. We could go to the pub and talk openly about them not fighting and killing Americans or Ukrainians. As long as we can trade with each other, sell each other gas, make sure we're warm in the winter, we'll be fine. Russians are no different from you and me: there are good people and there are idiots, just like everywhere else.
THE TRUTH WILL SET US FREE
Amidst the outrageous and despicable smear campaign by the Israel lobby to denounce me as an anti-Semite, which I am not, am not, and never will be. Against the backdrop of them trying to silence me because I give my voice to the 75-year struggle for equal human rights for all my brothers and sisters in Palestine/Israel, regardless of their ethnicity, religion or nationality. With the Israeli lobby trying to cancel my series of concerts in Germany, 85% of which have already been sold out, the national newspaper Berliner Zeitung courageously published a detailed interview with me today in its Saturday edition. Thank you very much, gentlemen.
And to my fans who have bought tickets for the upcoming concerts in Europe I say:
Don't be afraid! I will definitely be there!
I won't let any wild horses get me down that road. Nor will this apartheid selection help.
THE TRUTH WILL SET US FREE.
Love, Roger.
Roger Waters can rightfully claim to be the inspiration for Pink Floyd. He conceived the concept and wrote all the lyrics for the masterpiece The Dark Side of the Moon, he wrote most of the music and all the lyrics for the albums Animals and The Wall, and the album The Final Cut was composed by himself. So Roger is planning to go to Germany on his current This Is Not A Drill tour in May to present this legacy of the classic Pink Floyd period. But there's one problem: Because of the controversial statements he's made about the war in Ukraine and the politics of the state of Israel, his concerts in Poland have already been canceled, and in Germany, Jewish and Christian organizations are demanding the same. It's time to talk to the 79-year-old musician: What does he mean? Could it be that by cancelling the concerts, he was simply misunderstood? Would it be legitimate to exclude him from the conversation? Or has there emerged a societal problem of wanting to ban dissenters - like Waters - from the conversation?
The musician receives visitors at his residence in the south of England. Greeting, open, unpretentious, but determined - this is how he will remain throughout the conversation. First, however, he wants to showcase something special: In the studio of his home, he plays us new versions of three compositions from The Dark Side of the Moon, which, incidentally, turns fifty years old in March.
"The new concept is meant to reflect the meaning of the work, to bring out the heart and soul of the album," he says, "musically and spiritually. I'm the only one who sings my songs on these new recordings, and there are no rock 'n' roll guitar solos. It's about the voice of reason. And it says: it's not the power of our kings and leaders and their supposed connection to God that matters. What really matters is the connection between us as human beings, the whole human community. We humans are scattered all over the globe, but we are all connected because we all come from Africa. We are all brothers and sisters. Or at least distant cousins. But the way we treat each other is destroying our home, planet Earth, and faster than we can imagine. For example, right here, right now, in the year 2023, we are engaged in an already year-long proxy war with Russia in Ukraine. Why?
Well, a little history: in 2004, Russian President Vladimir Putin reached out to the West in an attempt to build the architecture of peace in Europe. It's all documented. He explained that Western plans to invite Ukraine into NATO after the first Maidan coup posed a completely unacceptable existential threat to the Russian Federation. He said that by doing so they would cross a red line that could end in war. So let's try to get together at the negotiating table and agree on a peaceful future. But his well-meaning aspirations were rejected by the United States and its NATO allies. Since then, he has consistently defended his position, while NATO has consistently defended its "Fuck you. And here we are now."
Mr. Waters, you talk about the voice of reason, the deep connection of all people. But when it comes to the war in Ukraine, you talk a lot about the mistakes of the United States and the West, not about Russia's war and Russian aggression. Why aren't you protesting the actions taken by Russia? I know you supported Pussy Riot and other human rights organizations in Russia. Why aren't you attacking Putin?
"First of all, if you read my letter to Putin and my articles about starting the war in February..."
...You called him a "gangster."
"Yes, there was that. But I may have changed my mind a bit in the last year. There's a podcast from Cyprus called The Duran. The hosts there speak Russian and can read Putin's speeches in the original. Their comments on this are clear to me. The most important reason for supplying arms to Ukraine is clearly profit for the arms industry. And I wonder: is Putin a bigger gangster than Joe Biden and all those in charge of American policy since World War II? I'm not so sure! Did Putin invade Vietnam or Iraq? Did he?"
The most important reason for supplying weapons is the following: it is to support Ukraine, to win the war, and to stop Russian aggression. You seem to see it differently.
"Yes. Maybe I shouldn't have, but now I'm more open to listening to what Putin is really saying. Listening to independent sources of information, I understand that he governs cautiously, making decisions based on consensus in the Russian government. There are also critical intellectuals in Russia who have opposed U.S. imperialism since the 1950s. And the central idea has always been, "Ukraine is a red line. The country must remain neutral, a buffer territory. If it doesn't, we don't know where that will lead." And we still don't know, but it could end up in World War III."
Last February, it was Putin who decided to attack.
"He started what he still calls a 'special military operation.' He started it, if I understand it correctly, for the following reasons: 1. We want to stop the potential genocide of the Russian-speaking population of Donbass. 2. We want to fight Nazism in Ukraine.
There is this Alina, a teenager from Ukraine, with whom I corresponded in long letters. I wrote: "I hear you. I understand your pain." She wrote back, thanking me, but stressing that she was sure I was wrong: "I am 200% sure there are no Nazis in Ukraine." I answered again: "I'm sorry, Alina, but you are wrong. How can you live in Ukraine and not know that?"
There is no evidence that there was a genocide in Ukraine. Yet Putin has repeatedly emphasized that he wants Ukraine back in his empire. Putin told former German Chancellor Angela Merkel that the saddest day of his life was in 1989 (1991, note) when the Soviet Union collapsed.
"Isn't the word 'Ukraine' the Russian word for 'okra'? For a long time it was part of Russia and the Soviet Union. It's a complicated history. I believe that during World War II, most of the population of western Ukraine chose to cooperate with the Nazis. They killed Jews, gypsies, communists, and anyone else the Third Reich wanted to destroy. To this day there is a conflict between Western Ukraine and Southeastern Ukraine (Crimea and Donbass). There are many Russian-speaking Ukrainians because this territory has been part of Russia for hundreds of years. How can you solve such a problem? It can't be done by the Kiev government, nor by a victory for the Russians. Putin has always emphasized that he's not interested in taking over Western Ukraine or invading Poland or any other country. What he is saying is this: I want to protect the Russian-speaking population in those parts of Ukraine where they feel threatened by the extreme right-wing governments influenced by the Maidan coup d'etat in Kiev. The 2014 coup d'état, which admittedly was orchestrated by the United States."
We have spoken to many Ukrainians who can prove otherwise. The U.S. may have helped support the 2014 protests. But on the whole, authoritative sources and eyewitness accounts suggest that the protests arose from within - by the will of the Ukrainian people.
"I wonder what kind of Ukrainians you've talked to? I can imagine that some claim exactly that. But on the other side of that coin is this: the vast majority of Ukrainians in Crimea and Donbass voted in referendums to reunite with the Russian Federation."
In February you were surprised that Putin attacked Ukraine. How can you be so sure he won't go further? Your confidence in Russia doesn't seem to be undermined, despite the bloody war of aggression on its part.
"And how can I be sure that the U.S. won't risk starting a nuclear war with China? They are already provoking the Chinese by meddling in Taiwan. But first, they would like to destroy Russia. Anyone with an IQ above a critical minimum understands this from reading the news. And even Americans admit it."
You annoy a lot of people because your remarks sound like you're defending Putin.
"In the background of Biden. The US/NATO provocations that took place before February 2022 were marginal and very damaging to the interests of all the common people of Europe."
Would you not boycott Russia?
"I think it's counterproductive. Here you are living in Europe. How much does the U.S. charge you for gas supplies? Five times more than their own citizens pay for gas. In England, people are now saying "eat or drown" because the poor can barely afford to heat their homes. Western governments need to realize that we are all brothers and sisters. During World War II, they saw what happens when they try to wage war against Russia. Russians will unite and fight to the last ruble and the last square meter of land defending the homeland. Just like any other nation. I think that if the US can convince its citizens, you and many others, that Russia is the real enemy and Putin is the new Hitler, it will be easier for them to steal from the poor to give to the rich, and to encourage more wars, in the same spirit as this mediated war in Ukraine. This may seem like an extreme political stance to you, but apparently the history I study and the news I analyze is just different from yours. You can't believe everything you see on TV or read in the newspapers. All I am trying to accomplish with my new writings and my statements and speeches is for our brothers and sisters in power to stop the war. And that people realize that our brothers and sisters in Russia live under no more repressive dictatorship than you do in Germany, or I do in the United States. I mean, if we had the power to stop the bloodshed between young Ukrainians and Russians, would we really choose to continue the bloodshed?"
Well, for example, we could do this interview. In Russia, something like this would not be so easy... But back to Ukraine. What might be your political counterproposal for a meaningful Western policy toward Ukraine?
"We need to get all of our leaders around the table and get them to say, "No more war!" And from that point we could start a dialogue."
Can you imagine living in Russia?
"Yes, of course, why not? It would be just like with my neighbors here in the south of England. We could go to the pub and talk openly about them not fighting and killing Americans or Ukrainians. As long as we can trade with each other, sell each other gas, make sure we're warm in the winter, we'll be fine. Russians are no different from you and me: there are good people and there are idiots, just like everywhere else.