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robert e lee statue removed

Correll

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Much more likely but still a hypothetical and not easy to answer. What happened to the slaves in Dixie?

Freed sometime late in the 19th. Would you thus support statues and heritage celebrating Old Dixie? You keep harping on the "trying to destroy the Union". If you can't just come back with a solid, "Yes", that implies that your true reason is...something else. What is that?


I contend there are no examples to provide and you have not offered any.


Of course. No one is all good or all bad. The questions are: does the bad outweigh the good and what aspect of their lives are being celebrated? Washington was a slave owner but that is not why they built him a monument. Lee was a traitor and that is why they built him a monument. See the difference?



You contend what? That there are no examples of historical figures or heritage of non-whites that is not "problematic" by today's standards?


And again, all you are doing it putting YOUR spin on other people. That is a complete betrayal of the concepts of Tolerance and Diversity and Multiculturalism.
 

alang1216

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Here is one example. A non-white commie, who was such a commie that he lied to protect the reputation of Joseph Stalin, one of the greatest mass murderers of all time.





"Robeson traveled to Moscow in June 1949, and tried to find Itzik Feffer whom he had met during World War II. He let Soviet authorities know that he wanted to see him.[209] Reluctant to lose Robeson as a propagandist for the Soviet Union,[210] the Soviets brought Feffer from prison to him. Feffer told him that Mikhoels had been murdered, and he would be summarily executed.[211] To protect the Soviet Union's reputation,[212] and to keep the right wing of the United States from gaining the moral high ground, Robeson denied that any persecution existed in the Soviet Union,[213] and kept the meeting secret for the rest of his life, except from his son.[212]"
I'm not sure lying is in the same league as trying to destroy the country and playing a part in so many deaths. His motivation was not to hurt the US or it's people, but to help Blacks in America. I certainly don't condone his lying and would not want to celebrate his Soviet ties.
 

Correll

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I'm not sure lying is in the same league as trying to destroy the country and playing a part in so many deaths. His motivation was not to hurt the US or it's people, but to help Blacks in America. I certainly don't condone his lying and would not want to celebrate his Soviet ties.


He was so committed to communism that he helped hide the mass executions and persecutions of Stalin, one of the greatest mass murderers in history and we have built a Statue dedicated to him.


That is very bad behavior, and we celebrate....

well, what are we celebrating with his statue? ALL of him, including his support for mass murder, OR just his good works?



Which are we celebrating?
 

alang1216

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Freed sometime late in the 19th. Would you thus support statues and heritage celebrating Old Dixie? You keep harping on the "trying to destroy the Union". If you can't just come back with a solid, "Yes", that implies that your true reason is...something else. What is that?
Were they treated any better in your hypothetical history than they were in actual history. Was there Jim Crow or the KKK?

You contend what? That there are no examples of historical figures or heritage of non-whites that is not "problematic" by today's standards?
I don't think Robeson lying about Russia is in the same category as Lee's actions.

And again, all you are doing it putting YOUR spin on other people. That is a complete betrayal of the concepts of Tolerance and Diversity and Multiculturalism.
You're welcome to your values just keep them out of the public sphere.
 

Correll

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Were they treated any better in your hypothetical history than they were in actual history. Was there Jim Crow or the KKK?

Approx. the same. So, do I have a YES, you would support teh celebration of Old Dixie then?


I don't think Robeson lying about Russia is in the same category as Lee's actions.

He actively protected JOSEPH FUCKING STALIN, from exposure as the mass murdering totalitarian monster that he was.

And we have a statue built to celebrate him. IS that statue celebrating his support of mass murder or is it celebrating something else?





You're welcome to your values just keep them out of the public sphere.

Something you would never tell a non-white. Only whites get treated like that. Because they are second class citizens.
 

alang1216

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He was so committed to communism that he helped hide the mass executions and persecutions of Stalin, one of the greatest mass murderers in history and we have built a Statue dedicated to him.


That is very bad behavior, and we celebrate....

well, what are we celebrating with his statue? ALL of him, including his support for mass murder, OR just his good works?



Which are we celebrating?
I don't see any mention of communism or lying to support the USSR. He did those things but he is not celebrated for them. There is no statue where he is embracing Stalin.

Paul Robeson, Rutgers University’s most acclaimed alumnus, distinguished himself as a scholar, athlete and artist – but lived most deeply as an activist for civil rights and social justice.

On Wednesday the university broke ground on the future Paul Robeson Plaza, which will open in April as part of a yearlong centennial celebration of Robeson’s 1919 graduation. The plaza was conceived of and championed by the Class of 1971 for its 45th anniversary, with strong support from the Rutgers African-American Alumni Alliance.

Speaking at the groundbreaking ceremony, Rutgers University–New Brunswick interim chancellor Christopher J. Molloy noted that when he joined the university as a freshman in 1972, students knew Robeson as “a living legend who had no equal in accomplishment or authenticity as a Rutgers alum.”

Molloy noted that the Robeson Centennial will begin in January as “a year-long celebration of Robeson’s achievement as a scholar, athlete, actor, singer and global activist” and will honor the civil rights leader by “weaving his vision into the fabric of our campus and community in ways that will echo and endure.”
 

alang1216

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Approx. the same. So, do I have a YES, you would support teh celebration of Old Dixie then?
Celebrate Jim Crow and the KKK? No thanks.

Something you would never tell a non-white. Only whites get treated like that. Because they are second class citizens.
I think you are confused, if anything, Whites are no longer the ONLY first class group.
 

Correll

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I don't see any mention of communism or lying to support the USSR. He did those things but he is not celebrated for them. There is no statue where he is embracing Stalin.

Paul Robeson, Rutgers University’s most acclaimed alumnus, distinguished himself as a scholar, athlete and artist – but lived most deeply as an activist for civil rights and social justice.

On Wednesday the university broke ground on the future Paul Robeson Plaza, which will open in April as part of a yearlong centennial celebration of Robeson’s 1919 graduation. The plaza was conceived of and championed by the Class of 1971 for its 45th anniversary, with strong support from the Rutgers African-American Alumni Alliance.

Speaking at the groundbreaking ceremony, Rutgers University–New Brunswick interim chancellor Christopher J. Molloy noted that when he joined the university as a freshman in 1972, students knew Robeson as “a living legend who had no equal in accomplishment or authenticity as a Rutgers alum.”

Molloy noted that the Robeson Centennial will begin in January as “a year-long celebration of Robeson’s achievement as a scholar, athlete, actor, singer and global activist” and will honor the civil rights leader by “weaving his vision into the fabric of our campus and community in ways that will echo and endure.”


Works for me. We are celebrating his other works, and NOT his support of Stalin and Communism.



That is approximately what I expected you to say. And I agree. Historical figures are celebrated for their good works, or qualities while their bad times or failings are...not.


After all, ALL people are mixed bags, no one is perfect, all heroes have feet of clay.


The difference between me and you, between conservatives and lefties, is that I apply that standard across the board equally to all people, both left and right and all colors and creeds.


YOU, apply it to non-whites while whites get a far harsher standard and judgement.


Different treatment for different people, based on RACE.


And you are representative of today's America with that.
 

Correll

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Celebrate Jim Crow and the KKK? No thanks.

Jim Crow and the KKK came AFTER the time of Old Dixie. Your denial makes no sense.


It seems that the "destroy the union" is not your real reason for your opposition.



I think you are confused, if anything, Whites are no longer the ONLY first class group.

If that were teh case, everyone, white or black would be getting the same treatment.


That is clearly not the case. Your denial makes no sense. Whites are being treated more harshly than non-whites.


Why do you support this?
 

alang1216

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Jim Crow and the KKK came AFTER the time of Old Dixie. Your denial makes no sense.
So what, when, and where was Old Dixie?

If that were teh case, everyone, white or black would be getting the same treatment.

That is clearly not the case. Your denial makes no sense. Whites are being treated more harshly than non-whites.

Why do you support this?
Why do you imagine this is discrimination against Whites? I wouldn't support taking down a statue of Jefferson and he, like Lee, was a White slave owner.
 
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horselightning

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So what, when, and where was Old Dixie?


Why do you imagine this is discrimination against Whites? I wouldn't support taking down a statue of Jefferson and he, like Lee, was a White slave owner.
did abnyonhe ever r read about these people lives? oviously not.
 

Correll

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So what, when, and where was Old Dixie?

What does any of that matter? You said the important part was the "trying to destroy the union". If the primary issue is removed, why can you not give an simple and unqualified "Yes"?


It seems that the "trying to destroy the Union" is not your real reason for supporting this.


Why do you imagine this is discrimination against Whites? I wouldn't support taking down a statue of Jefferson and he, like Lee, was a White slave owner.

Because only whites go though the judging process at all.
 

alang1216

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What does any of that matter? You said the important part was the "trying to destroy the union". If the primary issue is removed, why can you not give an simple and unqualified "Yes"?

It seems that the "trying to destroy the Union" is not your real reason for supporting this.
It wasn't my only reason. Jim Crow, KKK, lynching, land grabs, etc, are also good reasons.

Because only whites go though the judging process at all.
On that, we'll have to agree to disagree, at least until I get some better examples than Robeson is a liar.
 
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horselightning

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What does any of that matter? You said the important part was the "trying to destroy the union". If the primary issue is removed, why can you not give an simple and unqualified "Yes"?


It seems that the "trying to destroy the Union" is not your real reason for supporting this.




Because only whites go though the judging process at all.
black are thre ones judging these dayds. racist;.
 
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horselightning

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So what, when, and where was Old Dixie?


Why do you imagine this is discrimination against Whites? I wouldn't support taking down a statue of Jefferson and he, like Lee, was a White slave owner.
blm and crt it all about racisum toward whites. calling up animalsls and in human. black dont want to be called that but they think it is right to turn the tables . blm was was created by a marxcist racists terroists and crt was written by marxsist former nazi froim germany. wake up.
 

alang1216

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blm and crt it all about racisum toward whites. calling up animalsls and in human. black dont want to be called that but they think it is right to turn the tables . blm was was created by a marxcist racists terroists and crt was written by marxsist former nazi froim germany. wake up.
I ran your rant through Google translate and it still made no sense. Who exactly are the "marxcist racists terroists" that created BLM and the "marxsist former nazi froim germany" that wrote CRT? Do you even know?
 
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horselightning

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I ran your rant through Google translate and it still made no sense. Who exactly are the "marxcist racists terroists" that created BLM and the "marxsist former nazi froim germany" that wrote CRT? Do you even know?

Written by a bunch racist blacks , its same think hitler used in german y to teach nazis. black are not a superior race. whites are not animals or monster or racists. its brainwashing lies. if we instaled something schools like this you hyporcriticla black would crying racisum. but it is ok to indocutre and teach kids to hate. lebrals are so crazy. ther love racisum. hate, natisum and they were thr ones who wanted slaves. liberals are so evile. you are killing america.
 

alang1216

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Written by a bunch racist blacks , its same think hitler used in german y to teach nazis. black are not a superior race. whites are not animals or monster or racists. its brainwashing lies. if we instaled something schools like this you hyporcriticla black would crying racisum. but it is ok to indocutre and teach kids to hate. lebrals are so crazy. ther love racisum. hate, natisum and they were thr ones who wanted slaves. liberals are so evile. you are killing america.
Thanks for confirming you're just here to rant and have no basis for your delusions. When you can name some of these people you hate get back to me. Until then, enjoy your spew.
 
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horselightning

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Thanks for confirming you're just here to rant and have no basis for your delusions. When you can name some of these people you hate get back to me. Until then, enjoy your spew.
you mean thats what your doing you racist. go back to your liberal brainwashed friends.
 

Correll

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It wasn't my only reason. Jim Crow, KKK, lynching, land grabs, etc, are also good reasons.


On that, we'll have to agree to disagree, at least until I get some better examples than Robeson is a liar.


ok, so the point of that question about what if the Confederacy never rebelled,


Was that you were making the point that your standard for "cancelling" the Lee Statue and statues like it, was that they "tried to destroy the union" ie that is the unique sin and you can't compare it to non-whites because no non-whites tried to destroy the union.


Now you admit that that is not your "only" reason. It is worth noting that hte other reasons you mention, took place well after the Civil War. Or are not limited to the South.


So, really the standard is very vague.


Which, I knew going into this. I never really bought the bit about the Civil War. For the reasons I mentioned earlier. ALL historical figures are celebrated only for select portions of their legacy.


A standard that is not fixed, and/or clear, is not really a standard. It is a series of post hoc justifications for your side's bullying.

This is about demonstrating the political power of the Left, over that of Whites, especially conservative or even non-liberal whites.
 

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