Results of the "Million Muslim March" and "2 Million Bikers" events in Wsh DC

[Againsheila]

You want to see pure propaganda bull crap. Look at the huge assembly of bikes. That is the Pentagon parking lot. Note in the lower right corner the parking spaces that are empty. Note the space between the parking spaces. You can clearly see the drainage culvert between the row of spaces. See it, one row of spaces ends, there is a space and than the other spaces are painted in. The culverts are unique to the Pentagon parking lots. Where do you suppose the Pentagon employee's parked on that day? Can you find one single mention of the bikers assembling in the Pentagon parking lotin the bull crap that has been put out by blogs, etc.? Ofcourse not. They didn't. A photo was pirated from the Rolling Thunder event and used to scam people into believing there was a massive event in Washington, DC by veterans and bikers for a specific political event. It's a huge scam to benifit people with a specific political agenda.

This is a picture of the Pentagon? Who knew?

 

[jon_berzerk]

You want to see pure propaganda bull crap. Look at the huge assembly of bikes. That is the Pentagon parking lot. Note in the lower right corner the parking spaces that are empty. Note the space between the parking spaces. You can clearly see the drainage culvert between the row of spaces. See it, one row of spaces ends, there is a space and than the other spaces are painted in. The culverts are unique to the Pentagon parking lots. Where do you suppose the Pentagon employee's parked on that day? Can you find one single mention of the bikers assembling in the Pentagon parking lotin the bull crap that has been put out by blogs, etc.? Ofcourse not. They didn't. A photo was pirated from the Rolling Thunder event and used to scam people into believing there was a massive event in Washington, DC by veterans and bikers for a specific political event. It's a huge scam to benifit people with a specific political agenda.

This is a picture of the Pentagon? Who knew?

here are a few more for ya

?2 Million Bikers? turnout blows away ?handful? at ?Million Muslim? gathering in DC [pics, video] | Twitchy

 

[Camp]

You want to see pure propaganda bull crap. Look at the huge assembly of bikes. That is the Pentagon parking lot. Note in the lower right corner the parking spaces that are empty. Note the space between the parking spaces. You can clearly see the drainage culvert between the row of spaces. See it, one row of spaces ends, there is a space and than the other spaces are painted in. The culverts are unique to the Pentagon parking lots. Where do you suppose the Pentagon employee's parked on that day? Can you find one single mention of the bikers assembling in the Pentagon parking lotin the bull crap that has been put out by blogs, etc.? Ofcourse not. They didn't. A photo was pirated from the Rolling Thunder event and used to scam people into believing there was a massive event in Washington, DC by veterans and bikers for a specific political event. It's a huge scam to benifit people with a specific political agenda.

This is a picture of the Pentagon? Who knew?

You left out the photo of the Pentagon parking lot. This is a photo of about 200 bikes riding two abreast on an interstate highway. About what you might see in a local Poker Run or TOY FOR TOTS RUN.

 

[Camp]

You want to see pure propaganda bull crap. Look at the huge assembly of bikes. That is the Pentagon parking lot. Note in the lower right corner the parking spaces that are empty. Note the space between the parking spaces. You can clearly see the drainage culvert between the row of spaces. See it, one row of spaces ends, there is a space and than the other spaces are painted in. The culverts are unique to the Pentagon parking lots. Where do you suppose the Pentagon employee's parked on that day? Can you find one single mention of the bikers assembling in the Pentagon parking lotin the bull crap that has been put out by blogs, etc.? Ofcourse not. They didn't. A photo was pirated from the Rolling Thunder event and used to scam people into believing there was a massive event in Washington, DC by veterans and bikers for a specific political event. It's a huge scam to benifit people with a specific political agenda.

This is a picture of the Pentagon? Who knew?

here are a few more for ya

?2 Million Bikers? turnout blows away ?handful? at ?Million Muslim? gathering in DC [pics, video] | Twitchy

Ya, those pictures show you about a thousand bikes or so as they assemble in town. That is where the bikes assembled for the big run. It looks like that when they assemble for charity runs also. There is a Harley dealer there. Sometimes it gets really packed and crowded. It isn't uncommon to see way more bikes than that at that very location.

 

[Camp]

The DC cops claim there were 1.2 million bikers.

No they don't. You are repeating a lie. Not saying you are a liar, but you can not find a link or the name of a spokesman for any DC law enforcement agency that says that. You can not give a link to that claim. No one can. It's bs. If I am wrong please, please show me. ANYONE, PLEASE SHOW AN OFFICIAL STATEMENT ABOUT THE NUMBER OF PARTICIPANTS IN THIS EVENT.
Thousands of veterans have worked for 25 years to put together a motorcycle event in Wahington, DC to honor veterans. Millions have rode across the country over the years to make this event happen. Rolling Thunder brings hundreds of thousands of patriots and vet's to the nations capitol on Memorial Day Weekend. Now along comes some exploitive liars with a specific political agenda who are making a claim that they organized even more bikers in just a few weeks to do the same thing and even more. A few thousand bikes are being turned into 800,000 riders. And assholes look at photo's of the Pentagon parking lot full of bikes and photo's of previous Rolling Thunder runs and don't have the sense to realize they are being scamed and snookered. Let's just kick all those biker vets that rode for POW/MIA's and agent orange justice and veteran rights to the curb. **** what they fought and rode for. Let's support the muslim haters instead. Lets support the new promoters and buy their patchs and t-shirts and make being a biker vet a true American muslim hater in the eyes of the world. Follow those assholes. It's just great PR for veterans and veteran issue's. Sure to bring all kinds of support for vet's.

55 MILES LONG, 4 LANES WIDE, NO WONDER THE NEWS IS SILENT ON THIS REVOLUTION!! | The Wilderness of Mirrors

For additional perspective consider that the group from Los Angeles alone was 55 miles long. 55 miles of four lane highway – from ONE CITY:

19th Ward Chicago: 1.2 million bikers ride and hardly a mention in the media. Wake up America..

Take this for what it’s worth, the DC Police, notorious for under reporting the numbers of conservative patriotic American’s that show up for rallies in DC, admitted that 1.2 million bikers showed up.

Here you go. The big huge lie. Pentagon parking lot. 9/11 promoters or scamers using Rolling Thunder photo to claim massive event.

 

[Kondor3]

Did the promoters of the 9-11 Two-Million-Bikers Run end-up bullshitting and using photos of other events to try to 'plump-up' their numbers and did they get caught at it?

Yeah, maybe, but, then again, who gives a frog's fat ass?

But, now that folks are coming to understand just how much the Biker Run is pissing-off some segment of the Liberal Camp - the segment that likes to make excuses for Radical Islam and attempts (and fails) to deflect the well-deserved contempt that it has drawn from Americans all across the political spectrum...

Knowing that it's pissing off THAT element, and causing them to freak-out and defend their beloved Islam more fiercely than ever, and knowing that it's causing them to hammer-away at the Bikers so energetically in order to heap as much discredit upon the Biker Run as may be possible...

Knowing that it's pissing of THAT element SOOOOOO much...

Here's hoping that the Biker Community does it again next year, and that they market it better, and record it better and more honestly, and that they have a turnout a hundred times greater than this first hastily cobbled-together last minute effort, and that it becomes an American tradition on 9-11...

Nothing more heart-warming than seeing Americans from all walks of life waving-at and cheering these American Patriots whose mission resonates so well with the American Soul...

 

[Alfalfa]

Why did Rolling Thunder refuse to endorse this event?

 

[Mushroom]

Why did Rolling Thunder refuse to endorse this event?

They do not endorse other events, period.

It is not that they "refused to endorse this event", they refuse to endorse any events other then their own.

 

[Alfalfa]

Why did Rolling Thunder refuse to endorse this event?

They do not endorse other events, period.

It is not that they "refused to endorse this event", they refuse to endorse any events other then their own.

Baloney. Many of the riders in this event are also members of RT. I have friends who are bikers (who doesn't?) and one in particular who is a PTB of RT and I asked him them and him about the situation. I was told the organizers of THIS event along with the common members asked RT to co-sponsor the event and were turned down because of the obvious anti-muslim theme and tone. They were then asked to endorse the event and put it out to their members and were similarly turned down.

That was why midstream the "purpose" of the event changed from being a counter protest of the muslim group to being a memorial of 911 victims, and then after that an event honoring US soldiers. They kept altering it to get RT on board but RT wouldn't bite because it had already been tainted and the original intent and purpose questionable.

If RT refused to co-sponsor or endorse the event, what does it say about the event and organizers itself?

 

[Kondor3]

"...Baloney..."

Hearsay evidence is inadmissible.

If you can either...

1. find and re-post an authoritative declination-to-endorse or promulgate, from RT, or...

2. authoritative endorsements by RT of other groups and events...

...then, you might have a shot at countering the stance that RT does not do endorsements.

Barring that, however...

No sale.

Oh, and, The Ride WAS anti-Muslim, to the extent that it was against Activist Muslim Groups who lack the sense God gave an ant, to stage such an event on 9-11.

A stance that was applauded and cheered by much of America as those folks rode to DC.

Sorry if that doesn't fit into the perceptions of the Radical Muslim Apologist faction on the fringes of the Liberal Camp.

 

[Alfalfa]

"...Baloney..."

Hearsay evidence is inadmissible.

If you can either...

1. find and re-post an authoritative declination-to-endorse or promulgate, from RT, or...

2. authoritative endorsements by RT of other groups and events...

...then, you might have a shot at countering the stance that RT does not do endorsements.

Barring that, however...

No sale.

Oh, and, The Ride WAS anti-Muslim, to the extent that it was against Activist Muslim Groups who lack the sense God gave an ant, to stage such an event on 9-11.

A stance that was applauded and cheered by much of America as those folks rode to DC.

Sorry if that doesn't fit into the perceptions of the Radical Muslim Apologist faction on the fringes of the Liberal Camp.

This is something you and others will never, ever understand.

The reason the thick as bricks organizers of the muslim protest organized that event was typified by the response of the anti-muslim bikers.

YOU and OTHERS validated their rationale...and you don't even know it.

So who really was "thick as a brick"? The tone deaf muslim organizers or the idiots that proved their need for such a message against intolerance and bigotry?

 

[Mushroom]

Did the promoters of the 9-11 Two-Million-Bikers Run end-up bullshitting and using photos of other events to try to 'plump-up' their numbers and did they get caught at it?

Yeah, maybe, but, then again, who gives a frog's fat ass?

But, now that folks are coming to understand just how much the Biker Run is pissing-off some segment of the Liberal Camp - the segment that likes to make excuses for Radical Islam and attempts (and fails) to deflect the well-deserved contempt that it has drawn from Americans all across the political spectrum...

Knowing that it's pissing off THAT element, and causing them to freak-out and defend their beloved Islam more fiercely than ever, and knowing that it's causing them to hammer-away at the Bikers so energetically in order to heap as much discredit upon the Biker Run as may be possible...

Knowing that it's pissing of THAT element SOOOOOO much...

Here's hoping that the Biker Community does it again next year, and that they market it better, and record it better and more honestly, and that they have a turnout a hundred times greater than this first hastily cobbled-together last minute effort, and that it becomes an American tradition on 9-11...

Nothing more heart-warming than seeing Americans from all walks of life waving-at and cheering these American Patriots whose mission resonates so well with the American Soul...

Yea, they did get caught at it. I realized several of the photos were from other events right away. In some the season looked wrong (one even had Cherry Blossoms visible, in September?), in others the locations were wrong (like the road shot, firetrucks hoisting a flag, Mt. Zion, in Pennsylvania?).

However, I think both sides are seriously playing with the numbers. The Left wants people to think it was just a couple of hundred Tea Party nutcases, no big deal.

The Right wants people to think that millions of bikers showed up.

As I said, I believe the numbers are around 100,000. That is based upon the videotaped report shown earlier, and knowing a bit about traffic flow. And in watching a few other tapes.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlBdZYD66SA]2 Million Bikers to DC - Richmond - YouTube[/ame]

Count the 91 motorcycles in under 2 minutes, making a sharp turn at around 15 mph as they leave a parking lot. Now triple to quadruple their passing speed, and you can start to get an idea how I arrive at the number I have.

If they continued at that speed at that rate, in an hour they would have around 2,500 bikers.

Then there is another view, I picked a point in the middle and counted 75 bikes per minute. But the average seemed to be about 1 per second.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FlB4QmbMDo]2 Million Bikers to DC 9/11/13 pt.2 - YouTube[/ame]

For this to have been 1.2 million like some have claimed, there would have to have been 10 times the number of bikes then as seen in these clips. The one on the 3 lane highway would have to have been fill like this for all 3 lanes, but that was not the case.

I have no idea where the last video was taken, or how long the total pass was (we started after it had already started), but in that 13 minute clip you see around 1,250 motorcycles pass by.

 

[Mushroom]

Why did Rolling Thunder refuse to endorse this event?

They do not endorse other events, period.

It is not that they "refused to endorse this event", they refuse to endorse any events other then their own.

Baloney. Many of the riders in this event are also members of RT. I have friends who are bikers (who doesn't?) and one in particular who is a PTB of RT and I asked him them and him about the situation. I was told the organizers of THIS event along with the common members asked RT to co-sponsor the event and were turned down because of the obvious anti-muslim theme and tone.

OK, then please give us an example of an event that was organized by another group that Rolling Thunder has endorsed.

Here, let me make this easy for you and anybody else. Here is their website.

The Official Site of Rolling Thunder Washington, D.C., Inc.

Now please show me where they have endorsed other groups. Any other groups. Just one, please-please-please-pretty-please!

In fact, I have not even found any evidence that they even tried to ask RT for an endorsement. Just like I have not seen your evidence as to how much each of these events cost and where the money came from that you tried to state earlier.

So please, not only provide proof that RT endorses other such events, but also provide some proof to back up your claim that they asked RT but were refused for being to radical. You are making all kinds of claims, but not providing any proof.

 

[Kondor3]

"...YOU and OTHERS validated their rationale...and you don't even know it..."

Partially correct.

I, and millions upon millions of our fellow countrymen, validated their rational, but DID know it.

We merely disagree over what that rationale was.

You (and some considerable percentage of the fringe-left devoted to Muslim Apologist advocacy, I'll wager) see it as blanket anti-Muslim activity.

Many (most, quite possibly) of your fellow countrymen see it as anti-Muslim Activist activity, focused upon their contempt for the grief of America in connection with that date.

Impasse. With very little hope of reconciliation for your Minority Opinion on this one, I fear.

You have the right to speak your mind on such things.

Your fellow countrymen have a right to shout you down, if they think it appropriate.

 

[Camp]

Did the promoters of the 9-11 Two-Million-Bikers Run end-up bullshitting and using photos of other events to try to 'plump-up' their numbers and did they get caught at it?

Yeah, maybe, but, then again, who gives a frog's fat ass?

But, now that folks are coming to understand just how much the Biker Run is pissing-off some segment of the Liberal Camp - the segment that likes to make excuses for Radical Islam and attempts (and fails) to deflect the well-deserved contempt that it has drawn from Americans all across the political spectrum...

Knowing that it's pissing off THAT element, and causing them to freak-out and defend their beloved Islam more fiercely than ever, and knowing that it's causing them to hammer-away at the Bikers so energetically in order to heap as much discredit upon the Biker Run as may be possible...

Knowing that it's pissing of THAT element SOOOOOO much...

Here's hoping that the Biker Community does it again next year, and that they market it better, and record it better and more honestly, and that they have a turnout a hundred times greater than this first hastily cobbled-together last minute effort, and that it becomes an American tradition on 9-11...

Nothing more heart-warming than seeing Americans from all walks of life waving-at and cheering these American Patriots whose mission resonates so well with the American Soul...

Nonsense. These people haven't just plumbed the numbers. A few people have made up a fake story to promote a political agenda so people like you can claim massive support for an agenda that is not in reality supported by the people you are claiming to represent. These people have no real connection with bikers or veterans other than they called for a biker/vet event. Now they a claiming to represent bikers and vet's and as proof they are using this fake story of a massive event. They and those that have latched onto their scam are falsely projecting veterans as being the same kind of muslim haters that they are. These people are not helping veterans. They are not remembering 9/11 victims or our fallen in a dignified and honorable way. They in fact dishonor. It's not a liberal or conservative thing. It's about speaking up when people are dishonorable.

 

[Kondor3]

Did the promoters of the 9-11 Two-Million-Bikers Run end-up bullshitting and using photos of other events to try to 'plump-up' their numbers and did they get caught at it?

Yeah, maybe, but, then again, who gives a frog's fat ass?

But, now that folks are coming to understand just how much the Biker Run is pissing-off some segment of the Liberal Camp - the segment that likes to make excuses for Radical Islam and attempts (and fails) to deflect the well-deserved contempt that it has drawn from Americans all across the political spectrum...

Knowing that it's pissing off THAT element, and causing them to freak-out and defend their beloved Islam more fiercely than ever, and knowing that it's causing them to hammer-away at the Bikers so energetically in order to heap as much discredit upon the Biker Run as may be possible...

Knowing that it's pissing of THAT element SOOOOOO much...

Here's hoping that the Biker Community does it again next year, and that they market it better, and record it better and more honestly, and that they have a turnout a hundred times greater than this first hastily cobbled-together last minute effort, and that it becomes an American tradition on 9-11...

Nothing more heart-warming than seeing Americans from all walks of life waving-at and cheering these American Patriots whose mission resonates so well with the American Soul...

Nonsense...

To some... makes perfect sense to others.

"...These people haven't just plumbed the numbers. A few people have made up a fake story to promote a political agenda..."

Made up a fake story? Political agenda?

"...so people like you can claim massive support for an agenda that is not in reality supported by the people you are claiming to represent..."

People like me? Define 'people like me', please?

I am not claiming to represent anyone. I serve-up my own personal opinion, based on what I've seen on the news video feeds, of crowds waving-at and cheering-on the Bikers as they rode along the Interstates and through various towns and cities.

I am not part of that group, and I am not a Biker, and I have no vested interest in any of this, other than to add my voice of support for the Bike Ride that these folks made on 9-11.

"...These people have no real connection with bikers or veterans other than they called for a biker/vet event..."

It doesn't matter.

"...Now they a claiming to represent bikers and vet's and as proof they are using this fake story of a massive event..."

Somehow, I doubt that seriously, but, perhaps it's all a Huge Right-Wing Haters Kornspiracy after all !!!

"...They and those that have latched onto their scam are falsely projecting veterans as being the same kind of muslim haters that they are..."

The Bikers are Muslim-haters?

Hell, and here I thought they were just haters of the contempt and hatred of America shown by those who organized the Muslim March on the Mall on 9-11.

Ya learn sumfin' new every day...

"...These people are not helping veterans..."

Did they ever claim to be?

Other than the idea that the Biker Population holds a disproportionately high percentage of Veterans amongst its membership, was any 'veteran' connection whatsoever claimed?

"...They are not remembering 9/11 victims or our fallen in a dignified and honorable way..."

That is your opinion.

Others hold differently.

As do I.

Any group of folks willing to ride scores or hundreds or thousands of miles, to register extreme displeasure with any Muslim Activist Group that demonstrated such contempt for the grief of the American People on 9-11 gets MY vote as being folks who are, indeed, keeping faith with the country, and the dead of 9-11, and are acting with the utmost love-of-country, and their act deserves the appelation: Honorable.

"...They in fact dishonor..."

Again.

That is your opinion.

Others hold differently.

"...It's not a liberal or conservative thing..."

True. It's an Ultra-Leftist Fringe Element of the Liberal Camp, which has a Militant Islam Apologist and propaganda-shill-disguised-as-tolerance-advocate modus operandi. Much of the Liberal Camp rejects them, alongside the Center and the Right.

"...It's about speaking up when people are dishonorable."

I suggest you wait until next year, then go to DC to march alongside them, holding up a sign which says...

"9-11 Bike Riders are Dishonrable"

We will all be awaiting your report, afterwards.

As soon as you get out of traction, anyway.

But it will be a good life-lesson for you.

It will help you to get your head and your ass wired-together properly, troop.

This was merely a last-minute thing cobbled-together by several folks on Facebook, et al, that kinda went viral, and met with some success in its first outing, despite the grandiose label talking about 2,000,000...

Amateur organizers who are flopping-about trying to deal with their first mini-success...



A success because it was a good idea, which resonated with a great many people who objected to such outward and brash manifestations of contempt and insensitivity to American feelings about 9-11...

 

[Mushroom]

People like me? Define 'people like me', please?

That just goes to prove that stereotyping is wrong.

Unless you are a libtard, then it is acceptable, reasonable, and expected.

 

[Alfalfa]

People like me? Define 'people like me', please?

That just goes to prove that stereotyping is wrong.

Unless you are a libtard, then it is acceptable, reasonable, and expected.

So what's up with the 32k the organizers collected from supporters?

 

[Kooshdakhaa]

Did the promoters of the 9-11 Two-Million-Bikers Run end-up bullshitting and using photos of other events to try to 'plump-up' their numbers and did they get caught at it?

Yeah, maybe, but, then again, who gives a frog's fat ass?

But, now that folks are coming to understand just how much the Biker Run is pissing-off some segment of the Liberal Camp - the segment that likes to make excuses for Radical Islam and attempts (and fails) to deflect the well-deserved contempt that it has drawn from Americans all across the political spectrum...

Knowing that it's pissing off THAT element, and causing them to freak-out and defend their beloved Islam more fiercely than ever, and knowing that it's causing them to hammer-away at the Bikers so energetically in order to heap as much discredit upon the Biker Run as may be possible...

Knowing that it's pissing of THAT element SOOOOOO much...

Here's hoping that the Biker Community does it again next year, and that they market it better, and record it better and more honestly, and that they have a turnout a hundred times greater than this first hastily cobbled-together last minute effort, and that it becomes an American tradition on 9-11...

Nothing more heart-warming than seeing Americans from all walks of life waving-at and cheering these American Patriots whose mission resonates so well with the American Soul...

Nonsense...

To some... makes perfect sense to others.



Made up a fake story? Political agenda?



People like me? Define 'people like me', please?

I am not claiming to represent anyone. I serve-up my own personal opinion, based on what I've seen on the news video feeds, of crowds waving-at and cheering-on the Bikers as they rode along the Interstates and through various towns and cities.

I am not part of that group, and I am not a Biker, and I have no vested interest in any of this, other than to add my voice of support for the Bike Ride that these folks made on 9-11.



It doesn't matter.



Somehow, I doubt that seriously, but, perhaps it's all a Huge Right-Wing Haters Kornspiracy after all !!!



The Bikers are Muslim-haters?

Hell, and here I thought they were just haters of the contempt and hatred of America shown by those who organized the Muslim March on the Mall on 9-11.

Ya learn sumfin' new every day...



Did they ever claim to be?

Other than the idea that the Biker Population holds a disproportionately high percentage of Veterans amongst its membership, was any 'veteran' connection whatsoever claimed?



That is your opinion.

Others hold differently.

As do I.

Any group of folks willing to ride scores or hundreds or thousands of miles, to register extreme displeasure with any Muslim Activist Group that demonstrated such contempt for the grief of the American People on 9-11 gets MY vote as being folks who are, indeed, keeping faith with the country, and the dead of 9-11, and are acting with the utmost love-of-country, and their act deserves the appelation: Honorable.



Again.

That is your opinion.

Others hold differently.

"...It's not a liberal or conservative thing..."

True. It's an Ultra-Leftist Fringe Element of the Liberal Camp, which has a Militant Islam Apologist and propaganda-shill-disguised-as-tolerance-advocate modus operandi. Much of the Liberal Camp rejects them, alongside the Center and the Right.

"...It's about speaking up when people are dishonorable."

I suggest you wait until next year, then go to DC to march alongside them, holding up a sign which says...

"9-11 Bike Riders are Dishonrable"

We will all be awaiting your report, afterwards.

As soon as you get out of traction, anyway.

But it will be a good life-lesson for you.

It will help you to get your head and your ass wired-together properly, troop.

This was merely a last-minute thing cobbled-together by several folks on Facebook, et al, that kinda went viral, and met with some success in its first outing, despite the grandiose label talking about 2,000,000...

Amateur organizers who are flopping-about trying to deal with their first mini-success...

Wow, you had to go through all that to come to the conclusion that if you voice your opinion around bikers, and it's an opinion they don't like, they'll beat the crap out of you?

Hmmm. I think that's the problem some people have with them in the first place.

 

[Kondor3]

"...Wow, you had to go through all that to come to the conclusion that if you voice your opinion around bikers, and it's an opinion they don't like, they'll beat the crap out of you?..."

Congratulations for cherry-picking an element from your preferred holistic perspective out of those several salient points. Well done.

"...Hmmm. I think that's the problem some people have with them in the first place."

What problem would THAT be?

That they have the balls to defend their own honor, when impugned, unprovoked?

Although it's obvious that a certain kind of person has great difficulty in comprehending such a thing.

At least when it's directed against them, once they've sullied someone else's honor, and delude themselves that there will be and should be no consequences for such behavior.