- Thread starter
- #181
How many new legal Arab settlements have been build in Area C?
Reshaping US aid to the Palestinians
- Thread starter Coyote
- Start date
How many new legal Arab settlements have been build in Area C?
- Thread starter
- #182
Go ahead and lebel this an "appeal to emotion" but if you do...keep in mind, so is the article on the Israeli who was killed by a terrorist.
Community | Trump’s Aid Cuts Hurt The Most Vulnerable Palestinian Children
Despite the efforts to keep the chiidren’s spirits up, these days their parents and staffers at the facility are deeply worried. They fear that US President Donald Trump’s decision announced on September 8 to terminate US$25 million in American assistance to Augusta Victoria and five other East Jerusalem hospitals will impact directly on the children’s care.
“This decision is wrong. Where will the help for the children come from?” asked Ibtisam Hababa, noting that Ramallah hospitals are not an option since they do not offer dialysis for small children. “I’m worried for my daughter. She needs to get better, she needs her treatment.”
Trump advisor and son-in-law Jared Kushner is depicting the cuts as being aimed at the Palestinian leadership, which refuses to accept the US as a mediator in peace talks. He said in an interview with the New York Times last week that Palestinian leaders deserved to lose the aid after vilifying the administration over its recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital.
In Augusta Victoria, however, it becomes apparent that Trump and Kushner are actually hitting the most vulnerable individuals imaginable: those already grappling with life-threatening disease.
Community | Trump’s Aid Cuts Hurt The Most Vulnerable Palestinian Children
Despite the efforts to keep the chiidren’s spirits up, these days their parents and staffers at the facility are deeply worried. They fear that US President Donald Trump’s decision announced on September 8 to terminate US$25 million in American assistance to Augusta Victoria and five other East Jerusalem hospitals will impact directly on the children’s care.
“This decision is wrong. Where will the help for the children come from?” asked Ibtisam Hababa, noting that Ramallah hospitals are not an option since they do not offer dialysis for small children. “I’m worried for my daughter. She needs to get better, she needs her treatment.”
Trump advisor and son-in-law Jared Kushner is depicting the cuts as being aimed at the Palestinian leadership, which refuses to accept the US as a mediator in peace talks. He said in an interview with the New York Times last week that Palestinian leaders deserved to lose the aid after vilifying the administration over its recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital.
In Augusta Victoria, however, it becomes apparent that Trump and Kushner are actually hitting the most vulnerable individuals imaginable: those already grappling with life-threatening disease.
RoccoR
Gold Member
RE: Reshaping US aid to the Palestinians
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
Yeah, your question is a crafty way of say of presenting a loaded question.
Your question about the cessation of hostilities is typically used to trick pro-Isreali responder into implying something that the pro-Israeli never intended to imply.
(ANSWER)
Israel will cease operations when the objective is accomplished: The restoration, "as far as possible, public order and safety" → over the areas now riddled with lawless Arab Palestinians.
Most Respectfully,
R
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
Yeah, your question is a crafty way of say of presenting a loaded question.
(COMMENT)
Your question about the cessation of hostilities is typically used to trick pro-Isreali responder into implying something that the pro-Israeli never intended to imply.
Article 43 • Hague Regulation of 1907 said:
(ANSWER)
Israel will cease operations when the objective is accomplished: The restoration, "as far as possible, public order and safety" → over the areas now riddled with lawless Arab Palestinians.
Most Respectfully,
R
Shusha
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Legal according to whom? The EU funds new and expanding Arab settlements in Area C. According to them any building Arabs do in Area C is legal. While any building Jews do in Area C is illegal. (Which is contrary to the Oslo Accords, of course).
What is the objective standard here? Because Arabs should be encouraged to build and Jews should be forbidden to build is NOT objective.
Shusha
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Perhaps the government of Palestine should be responsible for providing health care to its own citizens. Rather than leaving it to churches and foreign aide.
- Thread starter
- #186
So impoverished countries dont deserve foreign aid? Or just the Palestinians?
Shusha
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Perhaps they could take the needed funds out of their terrorism budget. Just a suggestion.
- Thread starter
- #188
How many and what new Arab settlements? When did it start?
Is it in response to Israel's continued settlement activity?
How many legal Arab settlements got built prior to that? How many now?
- Thread starter
- #189
Perhaps they do. You are painting with an awfully broad brush here in aneffort to portraythem as deserving these cuts.
Shusha
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Coyote
Look, I'm not going to fall for the "but Palestine is so impoverished" fallacy. Palestine is solidly middle class with respect to wealth when compared to other countries -- pretty much smack dab in the middle. In addition, Palestine already receives FAR more aide than the truly impoverished countries, $396 annually per person, as compared to say, Yemen, which receives only $28.
If Palestine is so incapable of providing for its citizens with a solid middle class wealth and THAT much foreign aide, and can provide $350 million annually in pay-outs to terrorists, but can't fund health care for its citizens -- it has NO BUSINESS trying to be a State.
Look, I'm not going to fall for the "but Palestine is so impoverished" fallacy. Palestine is solidly middle class with respect to wealth when compared to other countries -- pretty much smack dab in the middle. In addition, Palestine already receives FAR more aide than the truly impoverished countries, $396 annually per person, as compared to say, Yemen, which receives only $28.
If Palestine is so incapable of providing for its citizens with a solid middle class wealth and THAT much foreign aide, and can provide $350 million annually in pay-outs to terrorists, but can't fund health care for its citizens -- it has NO BUSINESS trying to be a State.
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Shusha
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I'll ask again. Third or fourth time now. What is the objective standard?
RoccoR
Gold Member
RE: Reshaping US aid to the Palestinians
※→ Coyote, et al,
Yes, there are a number of reasons for this decision.
Well, it is really that Arab Israeli citizens are withheld for fear that the Arab Palestinians will single them out for personal attacks and make them objects of terrorist targeting.
Israel is trying to treat the general Arab populations (Druze, Nomads, Muslim, Christians and the unaffiliated) as equal to their counterpart cultural citizens in Israel. But they do not want to place the Arab Israelis in the awkward position of placing them at any additional risk or appear to encourage voluntary relocation (separating them out from Israelis in sovereign territory. There are emotional, moral, practical, protections and cultural reasons and considerations why the Israeli Government grants the greatest flexibility, options, and alternatives when dealing with this fragile protected segment of the population.
The non-Jewish Israelis do not want to create the perception that these citizens are being forced to do something this non-Jewish segment of the community (Muslim 14.6% (mostly Sunni Muslim), Christian 2.1%, other 3.2%). Israel actually wants these segment to flourish and become strong branches with the greater population.
Nowhere is this benevolent policy becoming more and more difficult to enact as with the near quarter-million Bedouins population (Negev Nomads) that live in a few dozens (plus) which are fighting to preserve their heritage in the 21st Century Israel.
It appears that Israel still has some learning to do on the approach to these unique cultural and tribal questions. Certainly, the Israelis have found that the oneshoe fits all is impractical and unworkable. They are still learning; yet making enormous progress in some areas.
Most Respectfully,
R
※→ Coyote, et al,
Yes, there are a number of reasons for this decision.
(COMMENT)
Well, it is really that Arab Israeli citizens are withheld for fear that the Arab Palestinians will single them out for personal attacks and make them objects of terrorist targeting.
Israel is trying to treat the general Arab populations (Druze, Nomads, Muslim, Christians and the unaffiliated) as equal to their counterpart cultural citizens in Israel. But they do not want to place the Arab Israelis in the awkward position of placing them at any additional risk or appear to encourage voluntary relocation (separating them out from Israelis in sovereign territory. There are emotional, moral, practical, protections and cultural reasons and considerations why the Israeli Government grants the greatest flexibility, options, and alternatives when dealing with this fragile protected segment of the population.
The non-Jewish Israelis do not want to create the perception that these citizens are being forced to do something this non-Jewish segment of the community (Muslim 14.6% (mostly Sunni Muslim), Christian 2.1%, other 3.2%). Israel actually wants these segment to flourish and become strong branches with the greater population.
Nowhere is this benevolent policy becoming more and more difficult to enact as with the near quarter-million Bedouins population (Negev Nomads) that live in a few dozens (plus) which are fighting to preserve their heritage in the 21st Century Israel.
It appears that Israel still has some learning to do on the approach to these unique cultural and tribal questions. Certainly, the Israelis have found that the oneshoe fits all is impractical and unworkable. They are still learning; yet making enormous progress in some areas.
Most Respectfully,
R
Shusha
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I would like to add something else concerning foreign aide, especially aide for medical needs. Its not directly related to this thread or topic, but I think its important.
As a global community, how SHOULD we decide where to put our resources? What should we base it on?
There are 10s of millions of people in the world without adequate access to pain medications -- including pediatric patients, terminal cancer patients and end-stage HIV.
5.5 million children under 5 die annually from preventable illnesses.
Nearly a million neonates die annually in India from lack of pre- and post-natal care.
900 million people in the world do not receive adequate nutrition.
There are countries in the world with on-going civil wars where the population hasn't access to clean water, food, shelter. Where children are turned into soldiers. Where women are raped or forced into sex slavery.
Where should our money go? What should the priorities be?
Palestinians have historically received disproportionate funding. It is funding which is out of line with their needs and the resources available to them as compared to other nations with higher needs and fewer resources.
As a global community, how SHOULD we decide where to put our resources? What should we base it on?
There are 10s of millions of people in the world without adequate access to pain medications -- including pediatric patients, terminal cancer patients and end-stage HIV.
5.5 million children under 5 die annually from preventable illnesses.
Nearly a million neonates die annually in India from lack of pre- and post-natal care.
900 million people in the world do not receive adequate nutrition.
There are countries in the world with on-going civil wars where the population hasn't access to clean water, food, shelter. Where children are turned into soldiers. Where women are raped or forced into sex slavery.
Where should our money go? What should the priorities be?
Palestinians have historically received disproportionate funding. It is funding which is out of line with their needs and the resources available to them as compared to other nations with higher needs and fewer resources.
Mindful
Diamond Member
- Banned
- #194
No Jew was permitted to live in Judea and Samaria during the Jordanian occupation.
Looking back: the right of the Jewish people to settle in the WHOLE of the Mandated territory. Article 6 of the Mandate encouraged "close settlement by Jews on the land, including State lands not required for public use."
Looking back: the right of the Jewish people to settle in the WHOLE of the Mandated territory. Article 6 of the Mandate encouraged "close settlement by Jews on the land, including State lands not required for public use."
Mindful
Diamond Member
- Banned
- #195
In April 1982, over 170 military installations and early warning stations were dismantled and the settlements were forcibly evacuated by the Israeli army, overseen by General Ariel Sharon. By that time, Sinai was home to 7,000 Israeli residents. Most of the settlements were demolished. Neot Sinai, with its cultivated gardens, was given intact to Egypt. In 1988, the resort town of Taba, developed by the Israelis, was handed over to Egypt as well.
Jews had long lived in Gaza before World War I. Kfar Darom was a Jewish-owned citrus grove in the 1930's.
The Jewish National Fund bought the land from its Jewish owner and established a kibbutz there in the 1940's. During the 1948 war, Kfar Darom came under Egyptian attack and siege but managed to serve as a stronghold against the Egyptian onslaught before being evacuated. In 1970, Kfar Darom was re-established on the same site, supported by Israel’s Labor government. Twenty more settlements were established in the Gaza Strip in the late 70's, 80's and 90's. Some of the families evacuated from the Sinai settlements were resettled in Gaza settlements, such as Elei Sinai. The settlers transformed the Gaza dunes into lush oases of green. The presence of such settlements near squalid Palestinian refugee camps sparked envy and resentment among the local Arab populace.
In 2005, the Israeli government forcibly evacuated and dismantled the Gaza Strip settlements, together with 4 additional settlements in Northern Samaria, and withdrew its military presence from Gaza. The thriving greenhouses that the settlers had built and maintained were transferred to the Palestinians.
Settlements
Jews had long lived in Gaza before World War I. Kfar Darom was a Jewish-owned citrus grove in the 1930's.
The Jewish National Fund bought the land from its Jewish owner and established a kibbutz there in the 1940's. During the 1948 war, Kfar Darom came under Egyptian attack and siege but managed to serve as a stronghold against the Egyptian onslaught before being evacuated. In 1970, Kfar Darom was re-established on the same site, supported by Israel’s Labor government. Twenty more settlements were established in the Gaza Strip in the late 70's, 80's and 90's. Some of the families evacuated from the Sinai settlements were resettled in Gaza settlements, such as Elei Sinai. The settlers transformed the Gaza dunes into lush oases of green. The presence of such settlements near squalid Palestinian refugee camps sparked envy and resentment among the local Arab populace.
In 2005, the Israeli government forcibly evacuated and dismantled the Gaza Strip settlements, together with 4 additional settlements in Northern Samaria, and withdrew its military presence from Gaza. The thriving greenhouses that the settlers had built and maintained were transferred to the Palestinians.
Settlements
flacaltenn
Diamond Member
Not true.. Did you ever visit the sites for the brand new "structured community" of Rawabi? That's Palestinian pressure to build out as well. And they got Israeli cooperation for water/power by being persistent and bringing in the first thousand new buyers. Better community living than in 75% of America..
Hotels, Convention Center, Shopping, Libraries, Schools. BRAND NEW Pali Production. Watch it. Learn how developed and thriving Palestinian life in Israel truely is. They are NOT ALL on WELFARE.
rylah
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+No. What is racist about it?On the contrary. The comment you were responding to called for EQUALITY. That is, both peoples having equal rights to claim and annex disputed territory.I ask it as a one sided question because I am responding to a one sided comment
Because of the conflict. Obviously. The Jewish people, for reasons perfectly justifiable, are reluctant to exchange their safety in their communities for diversity. (May the memories of Ari Fuld, and other victims of terrorism, be a blessing). And Israel, for reasons perfectly justifiable, is reluctant to formally annex both the territory and the Arab Palestinian peoples who are SUPPOSED to be seeking self-determination, remember?
Why aren't Jews being welcomed into Nabi Saleh? And where are the calls from the international community for diversity in Arab communities in the disputed territories? Where are the calls from the international community for Ahed and her family to take in returnees -- Jewish returnees? Where is the demand for diversity in Gaza? In Areas A and B?
Is Palestine calling for the unilateral withdrawal of Arab Palestinian peoples from Israeli territory? Are they willing to pick up and move 10,000 or more Arabs from Israel in a gesture of goodwill and ceding of territory?
There were more than 15,000 illegal Arab housing units put up in Jerusalem between 2014 and 2016. There have been dozens of illegal Arab settlements created. The EU has supported several expanding or new Arab communities.
Again, I'll ask you -- what is the OBJECTIVE standard here. I said the objective standard should be that both Israel and Palestine has equal right to annex the disputed territories. I said the objective standard should be that both Jews and Arabs should be permitted to reside there. Do you have a different objective standard?They aren't? The problem with Jews moving into Palestine is that they always bring Israel with them. If Miko Peled, for example, built a house in Nabi Saleh I don't think anyone would have a problem with it.
And You don't see how racist is this statement?
Because this is the same rhetoric that was used to ethnically cleanse
all of Middle Eastern Jews from Arab countries.
Also it's the same racist rhetoric that was used by Kant to justify discrimination against Jews in Europe,
the only difference is that in the same 18th century racism, he referred to Jews as "Palestinians among us".
Shusha
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The fundamental difference is between national sovereignty and total ethnic homogeneity. Israel understands she can have sovereignty, and safety for the Jewish people, and preserve her culture and language and traditions without requiring complete ethnic homogeneity.
Palestine requires the latter as a pre-condition to the former and even when that is granted is not satisfied.
Palestine requires the latter as a pre-condition to the former and even when that is granted is not satisfied.
rylah
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How? Well whst do you think of the OP's suggestions? So far no one seems to be actually talking about them
The OP suggestion was addressed specifically in the beginning with practical questions,
all of them are yet to be answered...Probably because someone decided to deflect
this thread to the usual "but Israel" excuses.
Can we bring this thread back to its' topic Coyote, what was that?
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