Reshaping US aid to the Palestinians

[P F Tinmore]

I would like to add something else concerning foreign aide, especially aide for medical needs. Its not directly related to this thread or topic, but I think its important.

As a global community, how SHOULD we decide where to put our resources? What should we base it on?

There are 10s of millions of people in the world without adequate access to pain medications -- including pediatric patients, terminal cancer patients and end-stage HIV.

5.5 million children under 5 die annually from preventable illnesses.

Nearly a million neonates die annually in India from lack of pre- and post-natal care.

900 million people in the world do not receive adequate nutrition.

There are countries in the world with on-going civil wars where the population hasn't access to clean water, food, shelter. Where children are turned into soldiers. Where women are raped or forced into sex slavery.

Where should our money go? What should the priorities be?


Palestinians have historically received disproportionate funding. It is funding which is out of line with their needs and the resources available to them as compared to other nations with higher needs and fewer resources.

US aid to Israel helps Israel to put the Palestinians in the position where they need aid. That puts the problem in our lap.

 

[P F Tinmore]

I ask it as a one sided question because I am responding to a one sided comment

On the contrary. The comment you were responding to called for EQUALITY. That is, both peoples having equal rights to claim and annex disputed territory.

..the fact that Israel does a better job of diversity doesn’t alter the fact that when it comes to settlements built in occupied/disputed territory there is little to no diversity. Why? Why aren’t non Jews encouraged to expand into those areas?

Because of the conflict. Obviously. The Jewish people, for reasons perfectly justifiable, are reluctant to exchange their safety in their communities for diversity. (May the memories of Ari Fuld, and other victims of terrorism, be a blessing). And Israel, for reasons perfectly justifiable, is reluctant to formally annex both the territory and the Arab Palestinian peoples who are SUPPOSED to be seeking self-determination, remember?

Why aren't Jews being welcomed into Nabi Saleh? And where are the calls from the international community for diversity in Arab communities in the disputed territories? Where are the calls from the international community for Ahed and her family to take in returnees -- Jewish returnees? Where is the demand for diversity in Gaza? In Areas A and B?

Is Palestine calling for the unilateral withdrawal of Arab Palestinian peoples from Israeli territory? Are they willing to pick up and move 10,000 or more Arabs from Israel in a gesture of goodwill and ceding of territory?

What new Arab settlements have been built for Arabs outside that region to migrate to? That would be analogous to the Jewish settlements but no one is willing to back anything up with numbers.

There were more than 15,000 illegal Arab housing units put up in Jerusalem between 2014 and 2016. There have been dozens of illegal Arab settlements created. The EU has supported several expanding or new Arab communities.

Again, I'll ask you -- what is the OBJECTIVE standard here. I said the objective standard should be that both Israel and Palestine has equal right to annex the disputed territories. I said the objective standard should be that both Jews and Arabs should be permitted to reside there. Do you have a different objective standard?

Why aren't Jews being welcomed into Nabi Saleh?

They aren't? The problem with Jews moving into Palestine is that they always bring Israel with them. If Miko Peled, for example, built a house in Nabi Saleh I don't think anyone would have a problem with it.

And You don't see how racist is this statement?

+No. What is racist about it?

Because this is the same rhetoric that was used to ethnically cleanse
all of Middle Eastern Jews from Arab countries.

Also it's the same racist rhetoric that was used by Kant to justify discrimination against Jews in Europe,
the only difference is that in the same 18th century racism, he referred to Jews as "Palestinians among us".

What is racist about a Jew living in a Palestinian village?

 

[Shusha]

I would like to add something else concerning foreign aide, especially aide for medical needs. Its not directly related to this thread or topic, but I think its important.

As a global community, how SHOULD we decide where to put our resources? What should we base it on?

There are 10s of millions of people in the world without adequate access to pain medications -- including pediatric patients, terminal cancer patients and end-stage HIV.

5.5 million children under 5 die annually from preventable illnesses.

Nearly a million neonates die annually in India from lack of pre- and post-natal care.

900 million people in the world do not receive adequate nutrition.

There are countries in the world with on-going civil wars where the population hasn't access to clean water, food, shelter. Where children are turned into soldiers. Where women are raped or forced into sex slavery.

Where should our money go? What should the priorities be?


Palestinians have historically received disproportionate funding. It is funding which is out of line with their needs and the resources available to them as compared to other nations with higher needs and fewer resources.

US aid to Israel helps Israel to put the Palestinians in the position where they need aid. That puts the problem in our lap.

There are like 90 countries worse off than them who are more in need of aide. They have been disproportionately given aide for decades. Time for them to grow up and be a State.

 

[Sixties Fan]

※→ Shusha, et al,

I think I agree with our friend "Shusha."

Foreign Aid (the transfer of capital, goods, or services) is suppose to be a gesture of goodwill from one friendly nation to another friendly nation. We say "allies."

Where should our money go? What should the priorities be?
.

(COMMENT)

Let's face it... The Arab Palestinians are NOT friends with America.

I don't know exactly how we got into trouble here, but I find it odd that there are so many Arab Palestinians in America when the PEW Survey Report indicates that 75% of them consider America an "enemy."

I don't think that America should be giving any type of aid to the Arab Palestinian and their so-called state. And I don't think that America should allow a self-declared enemy to tell us who we should or should not give aid to.

America, over the period since the Oslo Accord (1993), was given the Palestinians about $5.2B in aid. My position is that we should NOT be entangled and obligated to provide an annual stipend to an enemy state.

Most Respectfully,
R

Why should we give it to Israel? They spie on us. They attempted to sabatoge the Iran deal until they finally had to be shut out. Why are we giving them aid?

Aid serves multiple purposes. We give aid to Egypt, who’s government ranks high in terms of human rights and civil rights abuses. We give aid to Myanmar, despite the horrific actions of its government...Rights Group: Blocking Aid to Displaced Myanmar Civilians a War Crime

We give humanitarian aid to Yemen, another country in crisis being bombarded by our ally while we look the other way. Yemen is not likely pro American.

Aid in these regions not only provides medical assistance but also education, especially for girls. You want to change minds? That is where you start. The real tragedy is you are giving Hamas an elevated platform to step in and take over. How good is that going to be?

I get that many in this forum despise Palestinians, it was never more evident than in this thread.

I guess we pick and choose and since Trump and Netanyahu are best buds the Palestinians will be the clear losers.

One does not look at whether the country is enemy or friend.

That is not how the Red Cross or any other organization works when it comes to help the population which ends up suffering because of wars, disasters, etc

There are different reasons why each country is given aid.
With Egypt it was negotiated during the Peace Treaty.

We despise terrorists, not the victim population which is turned to helping them because of their ideology or because they do not know any better.

And there are plenty of Palestinians who are pro Israel, just as there are pro Israel Arabs in every Arab country and also in Iranians in Iran.

If you insist in painting it as a black and white issue, then there are no solutions.

Israel made a huge mistake with the Oslo Accords which the Arabs took advantage of to return and try to take away the rest of the Mandate from the Jewish people.

The Arabs under the Arab League and Arab leaders are the losers. They have no power and are fed on a daily basis endless hatred for Israel and the Jews.

That is how one makes a loser. By repeating lie after lie, in order to try to achieve a goal.

The Arab League and Arab leaders goal is the destruction of Israel.

Period.

Wait what?! THIS thread is evidence that we 'despise Palestinians"?

Seriously?!

This thread has had none but the most educated and thoughtful posters participating. It has been largely free from the nasty one liners and personal attacks and ugliness which can occur on other threads.

The pro-Israel side on this thread is represented by Rocco, rylah, Sixties and myself. You think our bottom line is that we "despise Palestinians "?

It frankly sounds like you are celebrating the cutting off humanitarian aid which affects the must vulnerable among the Palestinians. You despise terrorists so you are willing to punish the entire population as a result.

As usual, you do not have any idea IF the population is being affected.

Any more affected by the US aid cut, or Belgium's aid cut, then they usually are by the PA's cuts to any and all of their necessities. Or Hamas, which is in charge of who gets what in Gaza.

I hate to tell you this, although in this case with Gaza and the PA it is not true.

In order to defeat the Nazis, the Allies cut EVERYTHING they could. Which of course means that the German population which had no way to get what the wealthy Nazis were getting, suffered the most.

In this case, the Palestinians are NOT suffering. Israel makes sure of it by allowing Palestinians to work in Israel, get education in Israel, get health care in Israel. Health care and necessities continues to be delivered to the people in Gaza.

Thank you for turning this into some Greek Tragedy, which it is not.

 

[flacaltenn]

Its not the presence of Jews but the "building of new settlements and moving (Jewish) people into them." Please explain to me the functional difference between those two things. Because they seem to be the same to me. (And Israel has not (until recently) built any new settlements in more than 20 years.)



As an aside, two families move into an area and begin farming in the early 1930s. Both are from foreign territories. Both have a continued presence in the territory that their families have been farming for generations. One family is considered to be "settlers". The other is not. What do you think the defining trait is?

Please explain to me whyonly Jewish settlements are legal.

Not true.. Did you ever visit the sites for the brand new "structured community" of Rawabi? That's Palestinian pressure to build out as well. And they got Israeli cooperation for water/power by being persistent and bringing in the first thousand new buyers. Better community living than in 75% of America..

Hotels, Convention Center, Shopping, Libraries, Schools. BRAND NEW Pali Production. Watch it. Learn how developed and thriving Palestinian life in Israel truely is. They are NOT ALL on WELFARE.

Yes, I had heard about it, a fantastic enterprise and a real success, thanks for pointing it out However they did not need Israeli permission to build it, it is entirely in Area C.

It is extremely important to understand, via the Oslo Accords, why the EU needs permission from Israel to build on area C.

Both Jews and Arabs need permits to build in Area C.
----

MOST OF geographic Judea and Samaria (60% of the area) is designated Area C, over which Israel has exclusive jurisdiction both administratively and in security matters.

Area C’s distinguishing characteristic is that it is sparsely populated – by Arab or Jewish inhabitants.

Most of this area lies east of the populated mountain spine from Jenin in the north to Hebron in the south. The eastern slopes descending and including the Jordan Valley are characterized by harsh climate and low to no rainfall. The Jordan Valley, the South Hebron Hills and the area in the vicinity of Ma’aleh Adumim – from east of Mount Scopus to Jericho – are by far the most politically contested spaces in Area C, due to both Jewish settlement and Israeli security concerns.

Knowing your ABC


The PA never cared, and still does, to follow the Oslo Accords, be it by ending the incitement against Israel and Jews with the education in schools and media, or via respecting Area C or Israel.

As I put it before, they are using the Hudna, which is the waiting period from the time they lose a battle until they win the war, as it was during the time of Mohammad. And will continue to attempt to take control of as much land as they can without ever having to negotiate for it.

Area C has another distinguishing characteristic. Most of the resources.

Area C (West Bank) - Wikipedia
Area C is richly endowed with natural resources, including most of Palestinian agricultural and grazing land. It is the only contiguous part of the West Bank, thus all large scale projects involve work in Area C.[1]:

No wonder Israel wants it...61% of the West Bank.

Something like 85% of the Palestinians live in their major cities and the surrounding land. Not in that 61% of the voids that is Area C.

"Richly endowed" is relative. Because the bulk of that land will only support subsistence farming and grazing. MAJOR portions of Area C are steep slopes and deep winding canyons that can only support villages and farming in the tiny valley portions. On a map -- From Jericho to Jerusalem is only about 8 miles as the crow flies. But it goes from 700 ft below Sea level to 3000 ft above in that span. And that's the topography is all along the Eastern border of Area C.. Healthy people could HIKE the winding 15 mile (or so) Jericho-Jerusalem trail in a day. The scale of things on a map is really deceptive.

 

[Shusha]

※→ Shusha, et al,

I think I agree with our friend "Shusha."

Foreign Aid (the transfer of capital, goods, or services) is suppose to be a gesture of goodwill from one friendly nation to another friendly nation. We say "allies."

(COMMENT)

Let's face it... The Arab Palestinians are NOT friends with America.

I don't know exactly how we got into trouble here, but I find it odd that there are so many Arab Palestinians in America when the PEW Survey Report indicates that 75% of them consider America an "enemy."

I don't think that America should be giving any type of aid to the Arab Palestinian and their so-called state. And I don't think that America should allow a self-declared enemy to tell us who we should or should not give aid to.

America, over the period since the Oslo Accord (1993), was given the Palestinians about $5.2B in aid. My position is that we should NOT be entangled and obligated to provide an annual stipend to an enemy state.

Most Respectfully,
R

Why should we give it to Israel? They spie on us. They attempted to sabatoge the Iran deal until they finally had to be shut out. Why are we giving them aid?

Aid serves multiple purposes. We give aid to Egypt, who’s government ranks high in terms of human rights and civil rights abuses. We give aid to Myanmar, despite the horrific actions of its government...Rights Group: Blocking Aid to Displaced Myanmar Civilians a War Crime

We give humanitarian aid to Yemen, another country in crisis being bombarded by our ally while we look the other way. Yemen is not likely pro American.

Aid in these regions not only provides medical assistance but also education, especially for girls. You want to change minds? That is where you start. The real tragedy is you are giving Hamas an elevated platform to step in and take over. How good is that going to be?

I get that many in this forum despise Palestinians, it was never more evident than in this thread.

I guess we pick and choose and since Trump and Netanyahu are best buds the Palestinians will be the clear losers.

One does not look at whether the country is enemy or friend.

That is not how the Red Cross or any other organization works when it comes to help the population which ends up suffering because of wars, disasters, etc

There are different reasons why each country is given aid.
With Egypt it was negotiated during the Peace Treaty.

We despise terrorists, not the victim population which is turned to helping them because of their ideology or because they do not know any better.

And there are plenty of Palestinians who are pro Israel, just as there are pro Israel Arabs in every Arab country and also in Iranians in Iran.

If you insist in painting it as a black and white issue, then there are no solutions.

Israel made a huge mistake with the Oslo Accords which the Arabs took advantage of to return and try to take away the rest of the Mandate from the Jewish people.

The Arabs under the Arab League and Arab leaders are the losers. They have no power and are fed on a daily basis endless hatred for Israel and the Jews.

That is how one makes a loser. By repeating lie after lie, in order to try to achieve a goal.

The Arab League and Arab leaders goal is the destruction of Israel.

Period.

Wait what?! THIS thread is evidence that we 'despise Palestinians"?

Seriously?!

This thread has had none but the most educated and thoughtful posters participating. It has been largely free from the nasty one liners and personal attacks and ugliness which can occur on other threads.

The pro-Israel side on this thread is represented by Rocco, rylah, Sixties and myself. You think our bottom line is that we "despise Palestinians "?

It frankly sounds like you are celebrating the cutting off humanitarian aid which affects the must vulnerable among the Palestinians. You despise terrorists so you are willing to punish the entire population as a result.

Willing to "punish" the entire population? Not even in the slightest.

Only want the proper people - their own government - to take responsibility for them. The HORROR.

On the other hand, I don't see why anyone would support a government who celebrates the murder of Jews with lifelong wages. It's disgusting.

Who is really affected by cutting humanitarian aid? Much of what is cut doesn’t go through the government. If the governments alone should be taking care of their people why are we giving any aid to anyone? Or does this only apply to the Palestinians?

And who is helped? Hamas.

Why Palestine?

Why not Eritrea? Yemen? Congo?

I'm going to ask the still unanswered question -- what is the OBJECTIVE standard?

When SHOUKD a country be required to look after its own citizens?

 

[Coyote]

※→ Shusha, et al,

I think I agree with our friend "Shusha."

Foreign Aid (the transfer of capital, goods, or services) is suppose to be a gesture of goodwill from one friendly nation to another friendly nation. We say "allies."

Where should our money go? What should the priorities be?
.

(COMMENT)

Let's face it... The Arab Palestinians are NOT friends with America.

I don't know exactly how we got into trouble here, but I find it odd that there are so many Arab Palestinians in America when the PEW Survey Report indicates that 75% of them consider America an "enemy."

I don't think that America should be giving any type of aid to the Arab Palestinian and their so-called state. And I don't think that America should allow a self-declared enemy to tell us who we should or should not give aid to.

America, over the period since the Oslo Accord (1993), was given the Palestinians about $5.2B in aid. My position is that we should NOT be entangled and obligated to provide an annual stipend to an enemy state.

Most Respectfully,
R

Why should we give it to Israel? They spie on us. They attempted to sabatoge the Iran deal until they finally had to be shut out. Why are we giving them aid?

Aid serves multiple purposes. We give aid to Egypt, who’s government ranks high in terms of human rights and civil rights abuses. We give aid to Myanmar, despite the horrific actions of its government...Rights Group: Blocking Aid to Displaced Myanmar Civilians a War Crime

We give humanitarian aid to Yemen, another country in crisis being bombarded by our ally while we look the other way. Yemen is not likely pro American.

Aid in these regions not only provides medical assistance but also education, especially for girls. You want to change minds? That is where you start. The real tragedy is you are giving Hamas an elevated platform to step in and take over. How good is that going to be?

I get that many in this forum despise Palestinians, it was never more evident than in this thread.

I guess we pick and choose and since Trump and Netanyahu are best buds the Palestinians will be the clear losers.

One does not look at whether the country is enemy or friend.

That is not how the Red Cross or any other organization works when it comes to help the population which ends up suffering because of wars, disasters, etc

There are different reasons why each country is given aid.
With Egypt it was negotiated during the Peace Treaty.

We despise terrorists, not the victim population which is turned to helping them because of their ideology or because they do not know any better.

And there are plenty of Palestinians who are pro Israel, just as there are pro Israel Arabs in every Arab country and also in Iranians in Iran.

If you insist in painting it as a black and white issue, then there are no solutions.

Israel made a huge mistake with the Oslo Accords which the Arabs took advantage of to return and try to take away the rest of the Mandate from the Jewish people.

The Arabs under the Arab League and Arab leaders are the losers. They have no power and are fed on a daily basis endless hatred for Israel and the Jews.

That is how one makes a loser. By repeating lie after lie, in order to try to achieve a goal.

The Arab League and Arab leaders goal is the destruction of Israel.

Period.

Wait what?! THIS thread is evidence that we 'despise Palestinians"?

Seriously?!

This thread has had none but the most educated and thoughtful posters participating. It has been largely free from the nasty one liners and personal attacks and ugliness which can occur on other threads.

The pro-Israel side on this thread is represented by Rocco, rylah, Sixties and myself. You think our bottom line is that we "despise Palestinians "?

It frankly sounds like you are celebrating the cutting off humanitarian aid which affects the must vulnerable among the Palestinians. You despise terrorists so you are willing to punish the entire population as a result.

As usual, you do not have any idea IF the population is being affected.

Any more affected by the US aid cut, or Belgium's aid cut, then they usually are by the PA's cuts to any and all of their necessities. Or Hamas, which is in charge of who gets what in Gaza.

I hate to tell you this, although in this case with Gaza and the PA it is not true.

In order to defeat the Nazis, the Allies cut EVERYTHING they could. Which of course means that the German population which had no way to get what the wealthy Nazis were getting, suffered the most.

In this case, the Palestinians are NOT suffering. Israel makes sure of it by allowing Palestinians to work in Israel, get education in Israel, get health care in Israel. Health care and necessities continues to be delivered to the people in Gaza.

Thank you for turning this into some Greek Tragedy, which it is not.

How manyPalestinians are allowed into Israel? How long does it take to get healthcare there...if they can...when they should be able to get it locally. Are you saying all the Palestinian children will now be bussed into Israel for schooling? Only the wealthiest will suffer? I don’t think those getting medical care in that hospital who’s funding is cut are the wealthiest do you?

 

[Sixties Fan]

Its not the presence of Jews but the "building of new settlements and moving (Jewish) people into them." Please explain to me the functional difference between those two things. Because they seem to be the same to me. (And Israel has not (until recently) built any new settlements in more than 20 years.)



As an aside, two families move into an area and begin farming in the early 1930s. Both are from foreign territories. Both have a continued presence in the territory that their families have been farming for generations. One family is considered to be "settlers". The other is not. What do you think the defining trait is?

Please explain to me whyonly Jewish settlements are legal.

Not true.. Did you ever visit the sites for the brand new "structured community" of Rawabi? That's Palestinian pressure to build out as well. And they got Israeli cooperation for water/power by being persistent and bringing in the first thousand new buyers. Better community living than in 75% of America..

Hotels, Convention Center, Shopping, Libraries, Schools. BRAND NEW Pali Production. Watch it. Learn how developed and thriving Palestinian life in Israel truely is. They are NOT ALL on WELFARE.

Yes, I had heard about it, a fantastic enterprise and a real success, thanks for pointing it out However they did not need Israeli permission to build it, it is entirely in Area C.

It is extremely important to understand, via the Oslo Accords, why the EU needs permission from Israel to build on area C.

Both Jews and Arabs need permits to build in Area C.
----

MOST OF geographic Judea and Samaria (60% of the area) is designated Area C, over which Israel has exclusive jurisdiction both administratively and in security matters.

Area C’s distinguishing characteristic is that it is sparsely populated – by Arab or Jewish inhabitants.

Most of this area lies east of the populated mountain spine from Jenin in the north to Hebron in the south. The eastern slopes descending and including the Jordan Valley are characterized by harsh climate and low to no rainfall. The Jordan Valley, the South Hebron Hills and the area in the vicinity of Ma’aleh Adumim – from east of Mount Scopus to Jericho – are by far the most politically contested spaces in Area C, due to both Jewish settlement and Israeli security concerns.

Knowing your ABC


The PA never cared, and still does, to follow the Oslo Accords, be it by ending the incitement against Israel and Jews with the education in schools and media, or via respecting Area C or Israel.

As I put it before, they are using the Hudna, which is the waiting period from the time they lose a battle until they win the war, as it was during the time of Mohammad. And will continue to attempt to take control of as much land as they can without ever having to negotiate for it.

Area C has another distinguishing characteristic. Most of the resources.

Area C (West Bank) - Wikipedia
Area C is richly endowed with natural resources, including most of Palestinian agricultural and grazing land. It is the only contiguous part of the West Bank, thus all large scale projects involve work in Area C.[1]:

No wonder Israel wants it...61% of the West Bank.

I would like to remind you, Coyote, that the Jews were expelled from their Jewish homes and lands in 1948 from Judea and Samaria.
Much of what is being called Palestinian Arab, actually belonged to Palestinian Jews.

ALL of Judea and Samaria was ethnically cleansed of Jews.
As was ALL of TranJordan in 1925 and ALL Jews from Gaza in 1920.

ALL of the Jewish properties, lands and Agriculture was taken by force by the Arabs who in 1964 started calling them Palestinian Lands.

But, as we pro Israel posters know, the Arabs would like to see the whole Mandate given to them, Balfour Declaration and Oslo Accords be darned.

 

[Coyote]

Why should we give it to Israel? They spie on us. They attempted to sabatoge the Iran deal until they finally had to be shut out. Why are we giving them aid?

Aid serves multiple purposes. We give aid to Egypt, who’s government ranks high in terms of human rights and civil rights abuses. We give aid to Myanmar, despite the horrific actions of its government...Rights Group: Blocking Aid to Displaced Myanmar Civilians a War Crime

We give humanitarian aid to Yemen, another country in crisis being bombarded by our ally while we look the other way. Yemen is not likely pro American.

Aid in these regions not only provides medical assistance but also education, especially for girls. You want to change minds? That is where you start. The real tragedy is you are giving Hamas an elevated platform to step in and take over. How good is that going to be?

I get that many in this forum despise Palestinians, it was never more evident than in this thread.

I guess we pick and choose and since Trump and Netanyahu are best buds the Palestinians will be the clear losers.

One does not look at whether the country is enemy or friend.

That is not how the Red Cross or any other organization works when it comes to help the population which ends up suffering because of wars, disasters, etc

There are different reasons why each country is given aid.
With Egypt it was negotiated during the Peace Treaty.

We despise terrorists, not the victim population which is turned to helping them because of their ideology or because they do not know any better.

And there are plenty of Palestinians who are pro Israel, just as there are pro Israel Arabs in every Arab country and also in Iranians in Iran.

If you insist in painting it as a black and white issue, then there are no solutions.

Israel made a huge mistake with the Oslo Accords which the Arabs took advantage of to return and try to take away the rest of the Mandate from the Jewish people.

The Arabs under the Arab League and Arab leaders are the losers. They have no power and are fed on a daily basis endless hatred for Israel and the Jews.

That is how one makes a loser. By repeating lie after lie, in order to try to achieve a goal.

The Arab League and Arab leaders goal is the destruction of Israel.

Period.

Wait what?! THIS thread is evidence that we 'despise Palestinians"?

Seriously?!

This thread has had none but the most educated and thoughtful posters participating. It has been largely free from the nasty one liners and personal attacks and ugliness which can occur on other threads.

The pro-Israel side on this thread is represented by Rocco, rylah, Sixties and myself. You think our bottom line is that we "despise Palestinians "?

It frankly sounds like you are celebrating the cutting off humanitarian aid which affects the must vulnerable among the Palestinians. You despise terrorists so you are willing to punish the entire population as a result.

Willing to "punish" the entire population? Not even in the slightest.

Only want the proper people - their own government - to take responsibility for them. The HORROR.

On the other hand, I don't see why anyone would support a government who celebrates the murder of Jews with lifelong wages. It's disgusting.

Who is really affected by cutting humanitarian aid? Much of what is cut doesn’t go through the government. If the governments alone should be taking care of their people why are we giving any aid to anyone? Or does this only apply to the Palestinians?

And who is helped? Hamas.

Why Palestine?

Why not Eritrea? Yemen? Congo?

I'm going to ask the still unanswered question -- what is the OBJECTIVE standard?

When SHOUKD a country be required to look after its own citizens?

When they can. But we don’t even have a country here to talk about do we?

 

[Coyote]

I would like to add something else concerning foreign aide, especially aide for medical needs. Its not directly related to this thread or topic, but I think its important.

As a global community, how SHOULD we decide where to put our resources? What should we base it on?

There are 10s of millions of people in the world without adequate access to pain medications -- including pediatric patients, terminal cancer patients and end-stage HIV.

5.5 million children under 5 die annually from preventable illnesses.

Nearly a million neonates die annually in India from lack of pre- and post-natal care.

900 million people in the world do not receive adequate nutrition.

There are countries in the world with on-going civil wars where the population hasn't access to clean water, food, shelter. Where children are turned into soldiers. Where women are raped or forced into sex slavery.

Where should our money go? What should the priorities be?


Palestinians have historically received disproportionate funding. It is funding which is out of line with their needs and the resources available to them as compared to other nations with higher needs and fewer resources.

US aid to Israel helps Israel to put the Palestinians in the position where they need aid. That puts the problem in our lap.

There are like 90 countries worse off than them who are more in need of aide. They have been disproportionately given aide for decades. Time for them to grow up and be a State.

Then why is Israel getting aid?

 

[Shusha]

※→ Shusha, et al,

I think I agree with our friend "Shusha."

Foreign Aid (the transfer of capital, goods, or services) is suppose to be a gesture of goodwill from one friendly nation to another friendly nation. We say "allies."

(COMMENT)

Let's face it... The Arab Palestinians are NOT friends with America.

I don't know exactly how we got into trouble here, but I find it odd that there are so many Arab Palestinians in America when the PEW Survey Report indicates that 75% of them consider America an "enemy."

I don't think that America should be giving any type of aid to the Arab Palestinian and their so-called state. And I don't think that America should allow a self-declared enemy to tell us who we should or should not give aid to.

America, over the period since the Oslo Accord (1993), was given the Palestinians about $5.2B in aid. My position is that we should NOT be entangled and obligated to provide an annual stipend to an enemy state.

Most Respectfully,
R

Why should we give it to Israel? They spie on us. They attempted to sabatoge the Iran deal until they finally had to be shut out. Why are we giving them aid?

Aid serves multiple purposes. We give aid to Egypt, who’s government ranks high in terms of human rights and civil rights abuses. We give aid to Myanmar, despite the horrific actions of its government...Rights Group: Blocking Aid to Displaced Myanmar Civilians a War Crime

We give humanitarian aid to Yemen, another country in crisis being bombarded by our ally while we look the other way. Yemen is not likely pro American.

Aid in these regions not only provides medical assistance but also education, especially for girls. You want to change minds? That is where you start. The real tragedy is you are giving Hamas an elevated platform to step in and take over. How good is that going to be?

I get that many in this forum despise Palestinians, it was never more evident than in this thread.

I guess we pick and choose and since Trump and Netanyahu are best buds the Palestinians will be the clear losers.

One does not look at whether the country is enemy or friend.

That is not how the Red Cross or any other organization works when it comes to help the population which ends up suffering because of wars, disasters, etc

There are different reasons why each country is given aid.
With Egypt it was negotiated during the Peace Treaty.

We despise terrorists, not the victim population which is turned to helping them because of their ideology or because they do not know any better.

And there are plenty of Palestinians who are pro Israel, just as there are pro Israel Arabs in every Arab country and also in Iranians in Iran.

If you insist in painting it as a black and white issue, then there are no solutions.

Israel made a huge mistake with the Oslo Accords which the Arabs took advantage of to return and try to take away the rest of the Mandate from the Jewish people.

The Arabs under the Arab League and Arab leaders are the losers. They have no power and are fed on a daily basis endless hatred for Israel and the Jews.

That is how one makes a loser. By repeating lie after lie, in order to try to achieve a goal.

The Arab League and Arab leaders goal is the destruction of Israel.

Period.

Wait what?! THIS thread is evidence that we 'despise Palestinians"?

Seriously?!

This thread has had none but the most educated and thoughtful posters participating. It has been largely free from the nasty one liners and personal attacks and ugliness which can occur on other threads.

The pro-Israel side on this thread is represented by Rocco, rylah, Sixties and myself. You think our bottom line is that we "despise Palestinians "?

It frankly sounds like you are celebrating the cutting off humanitarian aid which affects the must vulnerable among the Palestinians. You despise terrorists so you are willing to punish the entire population as a result.

As usual, you do not have any idea IF the population is being affected.

Any more affected by the US aid cut, or Belgium's aid cut, then they usually are by the PA's cuts to any and all of their necessities. Or Hamas, which is in charge of who gets what in Gaza.

I hate to tell you this, although in this case with Gaza and the PA it is not true.

In order to defeat the Nazis, the Allies cut EVERYTHING they could. Which of course means that the German population which had no way to get what the wealthy Nazis were getting, suffered the most.

In this case, the Palestinians are NOT suffering. Israel makes sure of it by allowing Palestinians to work in Israel, get education in Israel, get health care in Israel. Health care and necessities continues to be delivered to the people in Gaza.

Thank you for turning this into some Greek Tragedy, which it is not.

How manyPalestinians are allowed into Israel? How long does it take to get healthcare there...if they can...when they should be able to get it locally. Are you saying all the Palestinian children will now be bussed into Israel for schooling? Only the wealthiest will suffer? I don’t think those getting medical care in that hospital who’s funding is cut are the wealthiest do you?

THe better question is why Israel should be obligated to provide health care to citizens of a foreign nation. And why the Palestinians are not able to get that health care locally from their own state.

If Israel has a better health care system than say, Pakistan, is Israel obliged to grant health care to Indian nationals?

I mean, Israel often does that very thing. But should they be obliged?

 

[flacaltenn]

I would like to add something else concerning foreign aide, especially aide for medical needs. Its not directly related to this thread or topic, but I think its important.

As a global community, how SHOULD we decide where to put our resources? What should we base it on?

There are 10s of millions of people in the world without adequate access to pain medications -- including pediatric patients, terminal cancer patients and end-stage HIV.

5.5 million children under 5 die annually from preventable illnesses.

Nearly a million neonates die annually in India from lack of pre- and post-natal care.

900 million people in the world do not receive adequate nutrition.

There are countries in the world with on-going civil wars where the population hasn't access to clean water, food, shelter. Where children are turned into soldiers. Where women are raped or forced into sex slavery.

Where should our money go? What should the priorities be?


Palestinians have historically received disproportionate funding. It is funding which is out of line with their needs and the resources available to them as compared to other nations with higher needs and fewer resources.

US aid to Israel helps Israel to put the Palestinians in the position where they need aid. That puts the problem in our lap.

There are like 90 countries worse off than them who are more in need of aide. They have been disproportionately given aide for decades. Time for them to grow up and be a State.

Then why is Israel getting aid?

Most of the aid that Israel gets is Military. And LARGELY it's DEFENSIVE military assistance. For instance the "Iron Dome" is a JOINT development anti-missile system that is the ONLY REASON -- Israel has not COMPLETELY leveled Gaza in the last few encounters.

Things like that INCREASE the peace and allow Israel to take more restrained responses when attacked. Without Iron Dome --- they probably would have re-occupied Gaza by now..

 

[Sixties Fan]

※→ Shusha, et al,

I think I agree with our friend "Shusha."

Foreign Aid (the transfer of capital, goods, or services) is suppose to be a gesture of goodwill from one friendly nation to another friendly nation. We say "allies."

(COMMENT)

Let's face it... The Arab Palestinians are NOT friends with America.

I don't know exactly how we got into trouble here, but I find it odd that there are so many Arab Palestinians in America when the PEW Survey Report indicates that 75% of them consider America an "enemy."

I don't think that America should be giving any type of aid to the Arab Palestinian and their so-called state. And I don't think that America should allow a self-declared enemy to tell us who we should or should not give aid to.

America, over the period since the Oslo Accord (1993), was given the Palestinians about $5.2B in aid. My position is that we should NOT be entangled and obligated to provide an annual stipend to an enemy state.

Most Respectfully,
R

Why should we give it to Israel? They spie on us. They attempted to sabatoge the Iran deal until they finally had to be shut out. Why are we giving them aid?

Aid serves multiple purposes. We give aid to Egypt, who’s government ranks high in terms of human rights and civil rights abuses. We give aid to Myanmar, despite the horrific actions of its government...Rights Group: Blocking Aid to Displaced Myanmar Civilians a War Crime

We give humanitarian aid to Yemen, another country in crisis being bombarded by our ally while we look the other way. Yemen is not likely pro American.

Aid in these regions not only provides medical assistance but also education, especially for girls. You want to change minds? That is where you start. The real tragedy is you are giving Hamas an elevated platform to step in and take over. How good is that going to be?

I get that many in this forum despise Palestinians, it was never more evident than in this thread.

I guess we pick and choose and since Trump and Netanyahu are best buds the Palestinians will be the clear losers.

One does not look at whether the country is enemy or friend.

That is not how the Red Cross or any other organization works when it comes to help the population which ends up suffering because of wars, disasters, etc

There are different reasons why each country is given aid.
With Egypt it was negotiated during the Peace Treaty.

We despise terrorists, not the victim population which is turned to helping them because of their ideology or because they do not know any better.

And there are plenty of Palestinians who are pro Israel, just as there are pro Israel Arabs in every Arab country and also in Iranians in Iran.

If you insist in painting it as a black and white issue, then there are no solutions.

Israel made a huge mistake with the Oslo Accords which the Arabs took advantage of to return and try to take away the rest of the Mandate from the Jewish people.

The Arabs under the Arab League and Arab leaders are the losers. They have no power and are fed on a daily basis endless hatred for Israel and the Jews.

That is how one makes a loser. By repeating lie after lie, in order to try to achieve a goal.

The Arab League and Arab leaders goal is the destruction of Israel.

Period.

Wait what?! THIS thread is evidence that we 'despise Palestinians"?

Seriously?!

This thread has had none but the most educated and thoughtful posters participating. It has been largely free from the nasty one liners and personal attacks and ugliness which can occur on other threads.

The pro-Israel side on this thread is represented by Rocco, rylah, Sixties and myself. You think our bottom line is that we "despise Palestinians "?

It frankly sounds like you are celebrating the cutting off humanitarian aid which affects the must vulnerable among the Palestinians. You despise terrorists so you are willing to punish the entire population as a result.

As usual, you do not have any idea IF the population is being affected.

Any more affected by the US aid cut, or Belgium's aid cut, then they usually are by the PA's cuts to any and all of their necessities. Or Hamas, which is in charge of who gets what in Gaza.

I hate to tell you this, although in this case with Gaza and the PA it is not true.

In order to defeat the Nazis, the Allies cut EVERYTHING they could. Which of course means that the German population which had no way to get what the wealthy Nazis were getting, suffered the most.

In this case, the Palestinians are NOT suffering. Israel makes sure of it by allowing Palestinians to work in Israel, get education in Israel, get health care in Israel. Health care and necessities continues to be delivered to the people in Gaza.

Thank you for turning this into some Greek Tragedy, which it is not.

How manyPalestinians are allowed into Israel? How long does it take to get healthcare there...if they can...when they should be able to get it locally. Are you saying all the Palestinian children will now be bussed into Israel for schooling? Only the wealthiest will suffer? I don’t think those getting medical care in that hospital who’s funding is cut are the wealthiest do you?

You ask fantastic questions you have not bothered to look into for the answers.

Thousands work in Israel and in Jewish towns in Area C.
Thousands come into Israel for health care. 180,000 this year so far.

180,000 Palestinians Treated in Israeli Hospitals This Year

You do not seem to know this but even the Palestinian leaders seek health care in Israel......and they DO GET IT.

Why haven't the leaders built as great a health care in the PA territories as the Israelis have done in Israel with the Billions of dollars they have received? That is the question.

Why should Palestinian children be bussed into Israel for schooling?

Are Canadian Children, or Mexican ones bussed into the USA for schooling?

Who said that the wealthiest will suffer? (Do you even know what you are saying?) Since when do wealthy people suffer from lack of aid, when the rest of the population is the one which does. Be it the 1929 Depression, any war, etc, etc.?

 

[Shusha]

One does not look at whether the country is enemy or friend.

That is not how the Red Cross or any other organization works when it comes to help the population which ends up suffering because of wars, disasters, etc

There are different reasons why each country is given aid.
With Egypt it was negotiated during the Peace Treaty.

We despise terrorists, not the victim population which is turned to helping them because of their ideology or because they do not know any better.

And there are plenty of Palestinians who are pro Israel, just as there are pro Israel Arabs in every Arab country and also in Iranians in Iran.

If you insist in painting it as a black and white issue, then there are no solutions.

Israel made a huge mistake with the Oslo Accords which the Arabs took advantage of to return and try to take away the rest of the Mandate from the Jewish people.

The Arabs under the Arab League and Arab leaders are the losers. They have no power and are fed on a daily basis endless hatred for Israel and the Jews.

That is how one makes a loser. By repeating lie after lie, in order to try to achieve a goal.

The Arab League and Arab leaders goal is the destruction of Israel.

Period.

Wait what?! THIS thread is evidence that we 'despise Palestinians"?

Seriously?!

This thread has had none but the most educated and thoughtful posters participating. It has been largely free from the nasty one liners and personal attacks and ugliness which can occur on other threads.

The pro-Israel side on this thread is represented by Rocco, rylah, Sixties and myself. You think our bottom line is that we "despise Palestinians "?

It frankly sounds like you are celebrating the cutting off humanitarian aid which affects the must vulnerable among the Palestinians. You despise terrorists so you are willing to punish the entire population as a result.

Willing to "punish" the entire population? Not even in the slightest.

Only want the proper people - their own government - to take responsibility for them. The HORROR.

On the other hand, I don't see why anyone would support a government who celebrates the murder of Jews with lifelong wages. It's disgusting.

Who is really affected by cutting humanitarian aid? Much of what is cut doesn’t go through the government. If the governments alone should be taking care of their people why are we giving any aid to anyone? Or does this only apply to the Palestinians?

And who is helped? Hamas.

Why Palestine?

Why not Eritrea? Yemen? Congo?

I'm going to ask the still unanswered question -- what is the OBJECTIVE standard?

When SHOUKD a country be required to look after its own citizens?

When they can. But we don’t even have a country here to talk about do we?

What is the objective standard for "they can"?

Why not Eritrea? Yemen? Congo?

 

[Sixties Fan]

One does not look at whether the country is enemy or friend.

That is not how the Red Cross or any other organization works when it comes to help the population which ends up suffering because of wars, disasters, etc

There are different reasons why each country is given aid.
With Egypt it was negotiated during the Peace Treaty.

We despise terrorists, not the victim population which is turned to helping them because of their ideology or because they do not know any better.

And there are plenty of Palestinians who are pro Israel, just as there are pro Israel Arabs in every Arab country and also in Iranians in Iran.

If you insist in painting it as a black and white issue, then there are no solutions.

Israel made a huge mistake with the Oslo Accords which the Arabs took advantage of to return and try to take away the rest of the Mandate from the Jewish people.

The Arabs under the Arab League and Arab leaders are the losers. They have no power and are fed on a daily basis endless hatred for Israel and the Jews.

That is how one makes a loser. By repeating lie after lie, in order to try to achieve a goal.

The Arab League and Arab leaders goal is the destruction of Israel.

Period.

Wait what?! THIS thread is evidence that we 'despise Palestinians"?

Seriously?!

This thread has had none but the most educated and thoughtful posters participating. It has been largely free from the nasty one liners and personal attacks and ugliness which can occur on other threads.

The pro-Israel side on this thread is represented by Rocco, rylah, Sixties and myself. You think our bottom line is that we "despise Palestinians "?

It frankly sounds like you are celebrating the cutting off humanitarian aid which affects the must vulnerable among the Palestinians. You despise terrorists so you are willing to punish the entire population as a result.

Willing to "punish" the entire population? Not even in the slightest.

Only want the proper people - their own government - to take responsibility for them. The HORROR.

On the other hand, I don't see why anyone would support a government who celebrates the murder of Jews with lifelong wages. It's disgusting.

Who is really affected by cutting humanitarian aid? Much of what is cut doesn’t go through the government. If the governments alone should be taking care of their people why are we giving any aid to anyone? Or does this only apply to the Palestinians?

And who is helped? Hamas.

Why Palestine?

Why not Eritrea? Yemen? Congo?

I'm going to ask the still unanswered question -- what is the OBJECTIVE standard?

When SHOUKD a country be required to look after its own citizens?

When they can. But we don’t even have a country here to talk about do we?

From 1937 till now, the Palestinian Arabs have been offered their own State, alongside that of Israel.

As you know, they have refused all offers. Blame it on the Arab League and the Arab leaders.

 

[Coyote]

I would like to add something else concerning foreign aide, especially aide for medical needs. Its not directly related to this thread or topic, but I think its important.

As a global community, how SHOULD we decide where to put our resources? What should we base it on?

There are 10s of millions of people in the world without adequate access to pain medications -- including pediatric patients, terminal cancer patients and end-stage HIV.

5.5 million children under 5 die annually from preventable illnesses.

Nearly a million neonates die annually in India from lack of pre- and post-natal care.

900 million people in the world do not receive adequate nutrition.

There are countries in the world with on-going civil wars where the population hasn't access to clean water, food, shelter. Where children are turned into soldiers. Where women are raped or forced into sex slavery.

Where should our money go? What should the priorities be?


Palestinians have historically received disproportionate funding. It is funding which is out of line with their needs and the resources available to them as compared to other nations with higher needs and fewer resources.

US aid to Israel helps Israel to put the Palestinians in the position where they need aid. That puts the problem in our lap.

There are like 90 countries worse off than them who are more in need of aide. They have been disproportionately given aide for decades. Time for them to grow up and be a State.

Then why is Israel getting aid?

Most of the aid that Israel gets is Military. And LARGELY it's DEFENSIVE military assistance. For instance the "Iron Dome" is a JOINT development anti-missile system that is the ONLY REASON -- Israel has not COMPLETELY leveled Gaza in the last few encounters.

Things like that INCREASE the peace and allow Israel to take more restrained responses when attacked. Without Iron Dome --- they probably would have re-occupied Gaza by now..

I actually don’t disagree with the aid we give Israel. I just find it ironic that some seem gleeful that the Palestinians are being stripped of aid that largely covers medical care, education, things like programs to improve cooperation between IsraeliS and Palestinians at community levels (in fact the money for that program was shifted to an internal Israeli program).

I can’t help but notice what seems like a celebratory attitude over this. Maybe I am to cynical, but these things usually hurt the people more than the leaders.

 

[Coyote]

It frankly sounds like you are celebrating the cutting off humanitarian aid which affects the must vulnerable among the Palestinians. You despise terrorists so you are willing to punish the entire population as a result.

Willing to "punish" the entire population? Not even in the slightest.

Only want the proper people - their own government - to take responsibility for them. The HORROR.

On the other hand, I don't see why anyone would support a government who celebrates the murder of Jews with lifelong wages. It's disgusting.

Who is really affected by cutting humanitarian aid? Much of what is cut doesn’t go through the government. If the governments alone should be taking care of their people why are we giving any aid to anyone? Or does this only apply to the Palestinians?

And who is helped? Hamas.

Why Palestine?

Why not Eritrea? Yemen? Congo?

I'm going to ask the still unanswered question -- what is the OBJECTIVE standard?

When SHOUKD a country be required to look after its own citizens?

When they can. But we don’t even have a country here to talk about do we?

What is the objective standard for "they can"?

Why not Eritrea? Yemen? Congo?

Have we cut off aid to those three countries?

 

[Indeependent]

I would like to add something else concerning foreign aide, especially aide for medical needs. Its not directly related to this thread or topic, but I think its important.

As a global community, how SHOULD we decide where to put our resources? What should we base it on?

There are 10s of millions of people in the world without adequate access to pain medications -- including pediatric patients, terminal cancer patients and end-stage HIV.

5.5 million children under 5 die annually from preventable illnesses.

Nearly a million neonates die annually in India from lack of pre- and post-natal care.

900 million people in the world do not receive adequate nutrition.

There are countries in the world with on-going civil wars where the population hasn't access to clean water, food, shelter. Where children are turned into soldiers. Where women are raped or forced into sex slavery.

Where should our money go? What should the priorities be?


Palestinians have historically received disproportionate funding. It is funding which is out of line with their needs and the resources available to them as compared to other nations with higher needs and fewer resources.

US aid to Israel helps Israel to put the Palestinians in the position where they need aid. That puts the problem in our lap.

There are like 90 countries worse off than them who are more in need of aide. They have been disproportionately given aide for decades. Time for them to grow up and be a State.

Then why is Israel getting aid?

Most of the aid that Israel gets is Military. And LARGELY it's DEFENSIVE military assistance. For instance the "Iron Dome" is a JOINT development anti-missile system that is the ONLY REASON -- Israel has not COMPLETELY leveled Gaza in the last few encounters.

Things like that INCREASE the peace and allow Israel to take more restrained responses when attacked. Without Iron Dome --- they probably would have re-occupied Gaza by now..

I actually don’t disagree with the aid we give Israel. I just find it ironic that some seem gleeful that the Palestinians are being stripped of aid that largely covers medical care, education, things like programs to improve cooperation between IsraeliS and Palestinians at community levels (in fact the money for that program was shifted to an internal Israeli program).

I can’t help but notice what seems like a celebratory attitude over this. Maybe I am to cynical, but these things usually hurt the people more than the leaders.

I guess you’re too naive to miss that fact that aid for the Palis never goes toward its intended purpose.

 

[Shusha]

Are Canadian Children, or Mexican ones bussed into the USA for schooling?

Lol. Better to ask why Americans who can't afford health care aren't bussed to Canada.

 

[Coyote]

It frankly sounds like you are celebrating the cutting off humanitarian aid which affects the must vulnerable among the Palestinians. You despise terrorists so you are willing to punish the entire population as a result.

Willing to "punish" the entire population? Not even in the slightest.

Only want the proper people - their own government - to take responsibility for them. The HORROR.

On the other hand, I don't see why anyone would support a government who celebrates the murder of Jews with lifelong wages. It's disgusting.

Who is really affected by cutting humanitarian aid? Much of what is cut doesn’t go through the government. If the governments alone should be taking care of their people why are we giving any aid to anyone? Or does this only apply to the Palestinians?

And who is helped? Hamas.

Why Palestine?

Why not Eritrea? Yemen? Congo?

I'm going to ask the still unanswered question -- what is the OBJECTIVE standard?

When SHOUKD a country be required to look after its own citizens?

When they can. But we don’t even have a country here to talk about do we?

What is the objective standard for "they can"?

Why not Eritrea? Yemen? Congo?

I am not sure you can have a completely objective standard because each situation is unique and affected by different factors.