Republicans to target unions, expand school choice in states

[Papageorgio]

the electoral college made the decision, not the People.

No, the college votes the way the people voted. That's the way it's supposed to be.

the electoral college is distinct from the popular vote.

Yep, that is how the people chose Trump, through the Electoral College.

not the popular vote.

I didn't say the popular vote, everyone knows he didn't win the popular vote. I said the people chose Trump through the Electoral College. I'm not sure how you missed what I said.

The way we elect our Presidents is through the electoral college, if you don't like the system, work through your Congressmen to change the process. I had no say in the process, I was not alive then. I thought you claimed to be smart?

 

[danielpalos]

the electoral college made the decision, not the People.

No, the college votes the way the people voted. That's the way it's supposed to be.

the electoral college is distinct from the popular vote.

Yep, that is how the people chose Trump, through the Electoral College.

not the popular vote.

I didn't say the popular vote, everyone knows he didn't win the popular vote. I said the people chose Trump through the Electoral College. I'm not sure how you missed what I said.

The way we elect our Presidents is through the electoral college, if you don't like the system, work through your Congressmen to change the process. I had no say in the process, I was not alive then. I thought you claimed to be smart?

isn't the will of the People a more popular mandate than the will of the electoral college?

 

[Papageorgio]

No, the college votes the way the people voted. That's the way it's supposed to be.

the electoral college is distinct from the popular vote.

Yep, that is how the people chose Trump, through the Electoral College.

not the popular vote.

I didn't say the popular vote, everyone knows he didn't win the popular vote. I said the people chose Trump through the Electoral College. I'm not sure how you missed what I said.

The way we elect our Presidents is through the electoral college, if you don't like the system, work through your Congressmen to change the process. I had no say in the process, I was not alive then. I thought you claimed to be smart?

isn't the will of the People a more popular mandate than the will of the electoral college?

They will of the Republic, which is for the people and by the people.

 

[danielpalos]

the electoral college is distinct from the popular vote.

Yep, that is how the people chose Trump, through the Electoral College.

not the popular vote.

I didn't say the popular vote, everyone knows he didn't win the popular vote. I said the people chose Trump through the Electoral College. I'm not sure how you missed what I said.

The way we elect our Presidents is through the electoral college, if you don't like the system, work through your Congressmen to change the process. I had no say in the process, I was not alive then. I thought you claimed to be smart?

isn't the will of the People a more popular mandate than the will of the electoral college?

They will of the Republic, which is for the people and by the people.

no one is questioning that. however, it is not the will of the People.

 

[Papageorgio]

Yep, that is how the people chose Trump, through the Electoral College.

not the popular vote.

I didn't say the popular vote, everyone knows he didn't win the popular vote. I said the people chose Trump through the Electoral College. I'm not sure how you missed what I said.

The way we elect our Presidents is through the electoral college, if you don't like the system, work through your Congressmen to change the process. I had no say in the process, I was not alive then. I thought you claimed to be smart?

isn't the will of the People a more popular mandate than the will of the electoral college?

They will of the Republic, which is for the people and by the people.

no one is questioning that. however, it is not the will of the People.

Yes it is, the "will of the people" set ratified the Constitution and the process of electing a President and Vice President. The "will of people" have not changed this procedure, so the "will of the people" has been carried out according to the Constitution. If the "will of the people" want to change the election process, then that is what the "will of the people" need to do. To say that the results of the election were no the "will of the people" is a dishonest statement.

 

[JoeB131]

Unions are fine, public sector employees don't need collective bargaining. They will still have a union stick up for them but even FDR and Kennedy were smart enough not to want public employees to have the power to hold the people hostage.

again, Public employees need collective bargaining for the same reason the rest of us do.

You can have Independant council investigate it has been done millions of times. Obama opened an investigation, so far nothing.

First, we don't have an independent counsel statue anymore. (It's only been evoked about two dozen times, actually). The thing is, an investigation like this should take months to do. Trump is going to shut it down because his ego can't stand the thought the Russians helped him "win".

Trump isn't Hitler, I'm tried of unintelligent people invoking Hitler on every President since Reagan, it is really ignorant.

Trump is as close to Hitler as this country has ever gotten. Ignorance is ignoring the parallels because they make you uncomfortable.

Speaking of fake news! Funny the mainstream media isn't going with the rubbish, Salon and Kos run with. You are as stupid as the Benghazi, birther and 911 nutters.

On the legal point, they are correct. A lot of these "electors" didn't live in the district they represented or were holding other offices when their states specifically prohibited that.... Just another example of what a shitshow this election was.

I didn't say the popular vote, everyone knows he didn't win the popular vote. I said the people chose Trump through the Electoral College. I'm not sure how you missed what I said.

The people picked Hillary. The Electors picked Trumpenfuhrer.

Yes it is, the "will of the people" set ratified the Constitution and the process of electing a President and Vice President. The "will of people" have not changed this procedure, so the "will of the people" has been carried out according to the Constitution. If the "will of the people" want to change the election process, then that is what the "will of the people" need to do. To say that the results of the election were no the "will of the people" is a dishonest statement.

Except the people didn't vote for this guy, and his approval rating - going into office - is 43%.

I think you fail to realize just how badly you guys fucked this up. So now you got a President the people didn't want who possibly won due to the intervention/interference of an enemy power.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

You own more valuable properties, therefore you pay higher taxes. There ya go!

There you go what????

Because my property is valued better than others on the street, I should pay more for their kids education? Again, please explain the equity or how that makes any sense.

Your property is valued less than mine, but you have four kids in the school. I have no kids in school, yet I'm paying more into that school than you are and you call that fair?

I have a better idea: why don't people with kids in school pay more for the school than people that don't? That's much fairer than forcing people with higher property value to pay for education.

You have a strange concept of what is fair. THAT is the problem. Don't like it? Vote to change it. As it stands, that how we fund schools.

How is that a strange concept?

When you take your family to the movies, do you pay the same or less as the couple with no kids going to the movies?

When you go out to dinner with your family, do you insist you pay only as much as the guy sitting by himself at the counter eating his dinner?

It's not a strange concept at all, in fact it's the standard concept we use in just about everything but education.

Families get a lot of financial breaks in our society, not just education. The IRS certainly gives families a break. Practically everywhere you go, you see half price for kids, kids eat free, half price to families. Apply for just about any social service and families get a break.

I don't see that very much, but even if you did, they still pay more than a single person or couple.

The point is, the more you use a product or service, the more you pay except when it comes to education where you may pay the most for not using the service at all, or may even pay the least for using the service the most.

Thus far, nobody has been able to explain how that concept is fair.

It is because you have a flawed concept of what is fair.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

the electoral college made the decision, not the People.

No, the college votes the way the people voted. That's the way it's supposed to be.

the electoral college is distinct from the popular vote.

Please log off and go read your Constitution.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Yep, that is how the people chose Trump, through the Electoral College.

not the popular vote.

I didn't say the popular vote, everyone knows he didn't win the popular vote. I said the people chose Trump through the Electoral College. I'm not sure how you missed what I said.

The way we elect our Presidents is through the electoral college, if you don't like the system, work through your Congressmen to change the process. I had no say in the process, I was not alive then. I thought you claimed to be smart?

isn't the will of the People a more popular mandate than the will of the electoral college?

They will of the Republic, which is for the people and by the people.

no one is questioning that. however, it is not the will of the People.

How do you know if we do not bother to count all of the absentee ballots? You do realize that if the margin is more than the number of absentee ballots cast, they are simply trashed. Right?

 

[Papageorgio]

Unions are fine, public sector employees don't need collective bargaining. They will still have a union stick up for them but even FDR and Kennedy were smart enough not to want public employees to have the power to hold the people hostage.

again, Public employees need collective bargaining for the same reason the rest of us do.

You can have Independant council investigate it has been done millions of times. Obama opened an investigation, so far nothing.

First, we don't have an independent counsel statue anymore. (It's only been evoked about two dozen times, actually). The thing is, an investigation like this should take months to do. Trump is going to shut it down because his ego can't stand the thought the Russians helped him "win".

Trump isn't Hitler, I'm tried of unintelligent people invoking Hitler on every President since Reagan, it is really ignorant.

Trump is as close to Hitler as this country has ever gotten. Ignorance is ignoring the parallels because they make you uncomfortable.

Speaking of fake news! Funny the mainstream media isn't going with the rubbish, Salon and Kos run with. You are as stupid as the Benghazi, birther and 911 nutters.

On the legal point, they are correct. A lot of these "electors" didn't live in the district they represented or were holding other offices when their states specifically prohibited that.... Just another example of what a shitshow this election was.

I didn't say the popular vote, everyone knows he didn't win the popular vote. I said the people chose Trump through the Electoral College. I'm not sure how you missed what I said.

The people picked Hillary. The Electors picked Trumpenfuhrer.

Yes it is, the "will of the people" set ratified the Constitution and the process of electing a President and Vice President. The "will of people" have not changed this procedure, so the "will of the people" has been carried out according to the Constitution. If the "will of the people" want to change the election process, then that is what the "will of the people" need to do. To say that the results of the election were no the "will of the people" is a dishonest statement.

Except the people didn't vote for this guy, and his approval rating - going into office - is 43%.

I think you fail to realize just how badly you guys fucked this up. So now you got a President the people didn't want who possibly won due to the intervention/interference of an enemy power.

I didn't **** anything up. The Republicans gave us a bad candidate, the Democratic Party gave us a bad candidate. I went third party because both party's gave us crap. Hell I would have voted for Sanders over Trump. You fucked it up by nominating Clinton and she couldn't get the Electoral votes. The Democratic Party tried to rig the election for Clinton and it backfired because people hated her.

The rest of your post is too stupid to respond to.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

No, the college votes the way the people voted. That's the way it's supposed to be.

the electoral college is distinct from the popular vote.

Yep, that is how the people chose Trump, through the Electoral College.

not the popular vote.

I didn't say the popular vote, everyone knows he didn't win the popular vote. I said the people chose Trump through the Electoral College. I'm not sure how you missed what I said.

The way we elect our Presidents is through the electoral college, if you don't like the system, work through your Congressmen to change the process. I had no say in the process, I was not alive then. I thought you claimed to be smart?

isn't the will of the People a more popular mandate than the will of the electoral college?

The electoral college votes according to how the people in their state voted. They did vote the will of the people.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

the electoral college made the decision, not the People.

No, the college votes the way the people voted. That's the way it's supposed to be.

the electoral college is distinct from the popular vote.

Yes it is. We use the college so that everybody in the country has some representation. The founders were brilliant with this system.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Even though they did not support Trump in the primaries, they cast their Electoral vote for Trump because they didn't feel Trump was a tyrant or unqualified. You offered nothing to contradict my claim, you just diverted.

Again, people in Germany who didn't vote for Hitler in 1933, still schemed to make him Chancellor because of the same reasons.

It's sad when people who know better put political opportunism ahead of the good of the country, but that's where we are at.

You mean like the two elections before Trump?

 

[JoeB131]

I didn't **** anything up. The Republicans gave us a bad candidate, the Democratic Party gave us a bad candidate. I went third party because both party's gave us crap. Hell I would have voted for Sanders over Trump. You fucked it up by nominating Clinton and she couldn't get the Electoral votes. The Democratic Party tried to rig the election for Clinton and it backfired because people hated her.

So you were too much of a misogynist to bite the bullet and do the right thing. Got it.

heres how a not crazy misogynist looked at this. Hillary was a flawed candidate. GIVEN. Totally give you that one. But she was also one who understood how government worked and we had the check on her excesses in that the GOP controlled both houses of Congress.

Instead, you guys who copped out and voted 3rd Party gave us this clown. I hold you guys more responsible than the Knuckle-draggers who voted for the Nazi. YOu knew this was wrong, you let it happen anyway.

 

[JoeB131]

Yes it is. We use the college so that everybody in the country has some representation. The founders were brilliant with this system.

Everybody has representation. One person. One vote.

The founders were racist assholes who frankly did us more harm than good. It's taken us 250 years to fix all their fuckups, and we ain't done yet.

 

[Flopper]

You own more valuable properties, therefore you pay higher taxes. There ya go!

There you go what????

Because my property is valued better than others on the street, I should pay more for their kids education? Again, please explain the equity or how that makes any sense.

Your property is valued less than mine, but you have four kids in the school. I have no kids in school, yet I'm paying more into that school than you are and you call that fair?

I have a better idea: why don't people with kids in school pay more for the school than people that don't? That's much fairer than forcing people with higher property value to pay for education.

You have a strange concept of what is fair. THAT is the problem. Don't like it? Vote to change it. As it stands, that how we fund schools.

How is that a strange concept?

When you take your family to the movies, do you pay the same or less as the couple with no kids going to the movies?

When you go out to dinner with your family, do you insist you pay only as much as the guy sitting by himself at the counter eating his dinner?

It's not a strange concept at all, in fact it's the standard concept we use in just about everything but education.

Families get a lot of financial breaks in our society, not just education. The IRS certainly gives families a break. Practically everywhere you go, you see half price for kids, kids eat free, half price to families. Apply for just about any social service and families get a break.

I don't see that very much, but even if you did, they still pay more than a single person or couple.

The point is, the more you use a product or service, the more you pay except when it comes to education where you may pay the most for not using the service at all, or may even pay the least for using the service the most.

Thus far, nobody has been able to explain how that concept is fair.

If nobody else has been able to explain the concept of taxes for public education as being fair, I doubt I can but I will get it try.

Let's take a hypothetical example. Mr. Jones, wife and 4 kids live in your town, and rent a small cottage. He sends all 4 kids to public school to get an education because he is required by law to do so. Thru sales taxes he pays part but not all of the cost for education of the kids.

What does Mr Jones get for the money he paid in sales taxes to educate the kids. Absolutely nothing. So if the parents themselves get nothing tangible, why should they be expected to pay the full cost of an education mandated by the state when others are the major beneficiaries of that education. So if Mr. Jones is not the primary beneficiary, who is?

Businesses who will have an educated trained work force which allows them to make money and thus pay taxes which provides not just education for young people but all kinds of services that benefit the community.

Mr Jones's kids will be able to get a job or go to college and contribute to the community, paying taxes and producing goods and services in lieu of being dependent on the community as they most likely would be without education.

Property owners like you have enjoyed a big appreciation of their property value over the years, in large part due to the education of the young who are contributing to the community rather than being dependent on the community.

 

[initforme]

I agree with the electoral college....but I don't accept that our founding fathers were brilliant....never ever.

 

[Thunderbird]

They value their right to select the kind of students that their parents want which are typically white, upper middle class students free of the problems that make them hard to reach.

Many minority students are welcomed in private schools. Some minority students receive scholarships. If we had school vouchers more poor and minority students could attend private schools. Why don't you want to give these students options?

Does Black Success Matter?

Third, less than 10% of US public schools are failing or face sanctions and when students and parents are giving the option of attending better schools, 70% choose to remain where they are.

If the NEA is right then they have nothing to fear. But the NEA seems scared of school choice, don't you think?

Can you tell me why you don't want to give students options?

 

[initforme]

Thunder turkey, let's send every last felanous disruptive kids to the school of their choice....without being told no. Agreed wimp?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

There you go what????

Because my property is valued better than others on the street, I should pay more for their kids education? Again, please explain the equity or how that makes any sense.

Your property is valued less than mine, but you have four kids in the school. I have no kids in school, yet I'm paying more into that school than you are and you call that fair?

I have a better idea: why don't people with kids in school pay more for the school than people that don't? That's much fairer than forcing people with higher property value to pay for education.

You have a strange concept of what is fair. THAT is the problem. Don't like it? Vote to change it. As it stands, that how we fund schools.

How is that a strange concept?

When you take your family to the movies, do you pay the same or less as the couple with no kids going to the movies?

When you go out to dinner with your family, do you insist you pay only as much as the guy sitting by himself at the counter eating his dinner?

It's not a strange concept at all, in fact it's the standard concept we use in just about everything but education.

Families get a lot of financial breaks in our society, not just education. The IRS certainly gives families a break. Practically everywhere you go, you see half price for kids, kids eat free, half price to families. Apply for just about any social service and families get a break.

I don't see that very much, but even if you did, they still pay more than a single person or couple.

The point is, the more you use a product or service, the more you pay except when it comes to education where you may pay the most for not using the service at all, or may even pay the least for using the service the most.

Thus far, nobody has been able to explain how that concept is fair.

If nobody else has been able to explain the concept of taxes for public education as being fair, I doubt I can but I will get it try.

Let's take a hypothetical example. Mr. Jones, wife and 4 kids live in your town, and rent a small cottage. He sends all 4 kids to public school to get an education because he is required by law to do so. Thru sales taxes he pays part but not all of the cost for education of the kids.

What does Mr Jones get for the money he paid in sales taxes to educate the kids. Absolutely nothing. So if the parents themselves get nothing tangible, why should they be expected to pay the full cost of an education mandated by the state when others are the major beneficiaries of that education. So if Mr. Jones is not the primary beneficiary, who is?

Businesses who will have an educated trained work force which allows them to make money and thus pay taxes which provides not just education for young people but all kinds of services that benefit the community.

Mr Jones's kids will be able to get a job or go to college and contribute to the community, paying taxes and producing goods and services in lieu of being dependent on the community as they most likely would be without education.

Property owners like you have enjoyed a big appreciation of their property value over the years, in large part due to the education of the young who are contributing to the community rather than being dependent on the community.

You are correct on one thing, that made no sense whatsoever.

Our schools are funded by property tax. The sales tax we pay go for other things; something else I'm against, but perhaps a discussion for another time.

What happened where I live is the exact opposite. The schools brought property values down.....way down.

When the neighborhood started to go downhill, the first good people to move out were those with children. People were wiling to stick around and put up a fight, but they would not sacrifice the safety of their children in our public school. That left them with two choices: send their children to private school which most couldn't afford, or use that money to just move to a better area with safer schools.

All this wonderful stuff about kids being able to grow up and work is fine, but what does that have to do with me paying for it? When I think of the tens of thousands of dollars I was forced to give to the school, let me tell you, I don't see that return you speak of.

This entire premise (excuse) about me paying for the education of other people's kids is ridiculous; as if I were not contributing, nobody would get an education.

As time went on, we relieved parents of THEIR responsibility to educate their children and put that responsibility on the community. And if it's not bad enough I pay for your kid to go to school, couldn't you at least get them there? Of course not, so I have to pay for their transportation as well.

I'm sick of paying for other people's kids. I didn't have them--you had them.