not much wrong with the US system. It is the process that has been corrupted.
no system is perfect. no system will ever be perfect, and all process will be corrupted over a period of time as corruption is driven in part, by human nature.
And a popularly elected Senate is merely an extension of the party man mob rule exercised in the HorR....The suckage of bicameral mobocracy is hardly any kind of equitable trade.
No, it isn't. The Framers had it right. The Senators should have always been appointed by the State legislatures to prevent precisely what the founders knew would happen: mob rule. They are not responsible for the sick show America can watch any time day or night on C-Span of Senators getting up on the floor and mooning the other Senators over genuine and positive political tripe.
No, it isn't. The Framers had it right. The Senators should have always been appointed by the State legislatures to prevent precisely what the founders knew would happen: mob rule. They are not responsible for the sick show America can watch any time day or night on C-Span of Senators getting up on the floor and mooning the other Senators over genuine and positive political tripe.
If Senators were appointed by states now as the Constitution provided, we would not have two ring circuses, only one. It's okay to have one three-ring circus, so long as the other brings reason and objectivity into the mix.
Reason and objectivity haven't been around the halls of Congress since the 17th Amendment was adopted and pwned the Constitution.
I've read both sides here, and I am convinced those who favor abolishing the 17th Amendment would bring that reason and logic back to this nation once again.
I've read every post.
Then listen to the words of someone who lived over a hundred years ago, maybe closer to 200 and taught one of America's favorite sons a lesson just by winning an argument in favor of deciding issues within the parameter of the original Constitution and what it does and does not provide:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoEJ-D2bgc0]Davy Crockett - Not Yours to Give - YouTube[/ame]
Democracy has always been mob rule, no matter where it has been practiced.
Right....And buying Seante votes with billions of federal tax dollars, to get a bill passed that 60% of the country doesn't want, is a model of propriety!
Democracy has always been mob rule, no matter where it has been practiced.
Right....And buying Seante votes with billions of federal tax dollars, to get a bill passed that 60% of the country doesn't want, is a model of propriety!
As in Mayor Blagovich's office less than 4 years ago? He wouldn't have gotten notice if for every 100 words he says, 15 of them are the F-word.No, it isn't. The Framers had it right. The Senators should have always been appointed by the State legislatures to prevent precisely what the founders knew would happen: mob rule. They are not responsible for the sick show America can watch any time day or night on C-Span of Senators getting up on the floor and mooning the other Senators over genuine and positive political tripe.Exactly.
Dead on.
If Senators were appointed by states now as the Constitution provided, we would not have two ring circuses, only one. It's okay to have one three-ring circus, so long as the other brings reason and objectivity into the mix.
Reason and objectivity haven't been around the halls of Congress since the 17th Amendment was adopted and pwned the Constitution.
I've read both sides here, and I am convinced those who favor abolishing the 17th Amendment would bring that reason and logic back to this nation once again.
I've read every post.
Then listen to the words of someone who lived over a hundred years ago, maybe closer to 200 and taught one of America's favorite sons a lesson just by winning an argument in favor of deciding issues within the parameter of the original Constitution and what it does and does not provide:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoEJ-D2bgc0"]Davy Crockett - Not Yours to Give - YouTube[/ame]
American democracy is now "mob rule"?
Nothing as corrupt as politicians making back room deals on who gets a senate seat
In the instance I spoke of, the US taxpayer was put on the hook for those bought votes.Democracy has always been mob rule, no matter where it has been practiced.
Right....And buying Seante votes with billions of federal tax dollars, to get a bill passed that 60% of the country doesn't want, is a model of propriety!
That's not because of how they're selected, but how the selection is funded. Who's buying Senate votes? Follow the money.
Democracy has always been mob rule, no matter where it has been practiced.
Right....And buying Seante votes with billions of federal tax dollars, to get a bill passed that 60% of the country doesn't want, is a model of propriety!
What doesn't happen with appointed Senators is out-of-control federal spending and bureaucratic bloat, as apportionment meant that state agencies were the ones collecting and forwarding all federal taxes....Hence, Senators had very strong motivation to keep the HoR in check and the feds in their box.Democracy has always been mob rule, no matter where it has been practiced.
Right....And buying Seante votes with billions of federal tax dollars, to get a bill passed that 60% of the country doesn't want, is a model of propriety!
That doesn't happen with appointed Senators?
Democracy has always been mob rule, no matter where it has been practiced.
Right....And buying Seante votes with billions of federal tax dollars, to get a bill passed that 60% of the country doesn't want, is a model of propriety!
That doesn't happen with appointed Senators?
Rightwinger, a long time ago, I had a boss (CPA) who literally and physically screamed a guy from the back office all the way to out the front door where his last words were "And don't you ever come back here!"Democracy has always been mob rule, no matter where it has been practiced.
Right....And buying Seante votes with billions of federal tax dollars, to get a bill passed that 60% of the country doesn't want, is a model of propriety!
That doesn't happen with appointed Senators?
What doesn't happen with appointed Senators is out-of-control federal spending and bureaucratic bloat, as apportionment meant that state agencies were the ones collecting and forwarding all federal taxes....Hence, Senators had very strong motivation to keep the HoR in check and the feds in their box.Democracy has always been mob rule, no matter where it has been practiced.
Right....And buying Seante votes with billions of federal tax dollars, to get a bill passed that 60% of the country doesn't want, is a model of propriety!
That doesn't happen with appointed Senators?
Since the passage of the 16th and 17th Amendments, the size of the federal gubmint has swelled from a scant few percent of GDP to very nearly 1/4....This is no coincidence.
Rightwinger, a long time ago, I had a boss (CPA) who literally and physically screamed a guy from the back office all the way to out the front door where his last words were "And don't you ever come back here!"Democracy has always been mob rule, no matter where it has been practiced.
Right....And buying Seante votes with billions of federal tax dollars, to get a bill passed that 60% of the country doesn't want, is a model of propriety!
That doesn't happen with appointed Senators?
After he went back to his office, I asked one of the other ladies up front what in the world was wrong with Mr. Bates? She said, "Oh, nothing, he does it all the time."
As time went on, and after things had settled down, I asked quietly another CPA why Mr. Bates was so angry. He looked up at me over his rimmed glasses, and said "The guy was a crook." Huh? "But he was so polite, how do you know he was a crook?" I queried. "Because he wanted a CPA to post date a payment he had not made yet to cover his butt for probably stealing money from the business." "oh."
Senators have the task of making laws that stick. We need some wise men there, not just a pretty face with nothing in the head.
The bottom line is, if you eliminate intellect and integrity from the final signers of necessary legislation, you're letting emotion run the government.
That's how Rome burned and Nero fiddled as he watched. It was burning because the leadership didn't give a rat's patoot.
We need to get back to saner law-making proceedures. Those who brought this topic up really hit at the wrong turn America has taken since then. The slight decline we've seen over the last 100 years has taken a 90-degree plummet to planet earth thanks to the information age, and we're near disaster.
Let's let the Constitution do what it was intended to do, not what emotions do to end this Bill of Rights privilege and that one.
Appoint wise men to the Senate as determined by State Legislators who know who's intellectual gold, and we will indeed see a good outcome.
Buying a seat? Enforce that as an offense that carries a 30-year firm sentence for briber and the bribed, and it just won't be happening.
State Legislators can be like a good CPA. They have good sense for who will represent their state and make them look like the good honest folk they can be when citizens expect them to be. A wise Senator will not allow lesser men destroy the Constitution or play financial feel-good tricks that overburden taxpayers in the long run.
You're changing the nature of the argument.
