Repeal the 17th Amendment!

[freedombecki]

I love how rightingnuts are whining about the house that's keeping the nutbars in the House under control. If it was reversed and the House was dem, you'd be saying that only the senate should exist.

The pretend constitutionalists hate the constitution. It's so funny.

Once again, Shillian you show you are full of crapp.

The explanation has already been given and the senate is necessary to protect the states from people like Obama.

The whole basis for the bicameral congress is spelled out in the Federalist papers and the key difference in the house and senate was the result of some brilliant thinking.

Take your smart pills or get a new prescription.

The American people would never tolerate giving up their right to elect Senators.......go back to smoking your bong

We have to. A little birdie told me.

 

[freedombecki]

Watch out when people suggest that you give up your right to vote and support a less messy form or government that works smoother without your input. I think the Germans tried it back in the 30's.

They already have. Remember MI appointing city managers who are able to override the local government and fire officials, sell assets and other things, all without a vote from the people?

And that is happening in GOP controlled states.

Michigan votes Democrat a lot.

Example of GOP states you said are doing likewise?

 

[ABikerSailor]

Watch out when people suggest that you give up your right to vote and support a less messy form or government that works smoother without your input. I think the Germans tried it back in the 30's.

They already have. Remember MI appointing city managers who are able to override the local government and fire officials, sell assets and other things, all without a vote from the people?

And that is happening in GOP controlled states.

Michigan votes Democrat a lot.

Example of GOP states you said are doing likewise?

Actually, Michigan is one of 'em.

The Governor of Michigan is the chief executive of the U.S. State of Michigan. The current Governor is Rick Snyder, a member of the Republican Party.

Governor of Michigan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sucks when your partisan talking points gets blown outta the water, eh? Michigan IS a GOP controlled state.

 

[freedombecki]

The 17th Amendment has had some really bad results over the years. I tallied the number of years US Senators served during the 100 years prior to the 17th and the 97 years after the 17th (of the 13 original states) and found that they serve almost exactly twice as long since 1913 than they did before.

Prior to the passage state legislatures could provide that their US Senator was more closely aligned to the political majority of the state, and therefore was actually much more responsive to the state's political consensus and 'current' needs.

Our own state has had Senator Lugar in office since he first ran in 1976.
He accomplished all that I voted for him for; which at the time was promotion of small business. He has voted 80% plus in favor of small business. Lugar hasn't lived in the state for 35 years, and doesn't even hold an address here. He's been claiming the residence he was at when he first ran, but thats been sold and occupied by others now for 35 years.

His opponent in the current race, is keeping that issue alive by challenging Lugar’s voting at a precinct in which he has no residence. Exposing that is being called dirty politics. So Lugar's running once again, for a 7th term, and has become a kind of "statesman" of the Senate. That's all fine, for him, but we need a change.

His opponent, Richard Mourdoc took the side of bondholders (bonds held by firemen, police, teachers, state employees), their position as first in line as lien holders, and brought it to trial in their defense. That was an aggressive position to take, and he did it well. The best Lugar can do is argue that Mourdoc missed public meetings on which his office held a pro-forma position 66 percent of the time; but of course Mourdoc sent his assistants or representatives to all those public meetings.

The 17th amendment has proven to protect incumbents in so many ways. It can never be rolled back, and we can never expect Senators to vote against their own incumbency.

The Senate still has an essential purpose; to slow the progress of bad ideas coming out of the house, and to vote as a caucus of the states in instances of “advice and consent” to the president. But now the Senate is made up of little more than super-representatives with all the same demands made on it as house members are subject to, with the only real difference being that their term of 6 years alternating in 3-different classes versus 2 years provides for a slow-down mechanism in times of volatile political change that the house is so subject to.

Interesting....did you consider that Americans live 15 years longer than in 1913 as contributing to Senators serving longer?

How do state legislators ensure that Senators are more closely aligned with the will of the people than the actual voters of the state?

People want to elect their own Senators......why is that so hard to understand?

I like the idea of the states electing the Senators. It makes a lot more sense. The state legislators have their ear to the ground with the particular needs of what would be best for their state.

The current system is not working because the Senators have given up their traditions of being courteous guardians of the laws that are put in effect on the people and their interests. Our conservative posters here at USMB are right on this one. The Senate and the House should be two entirely different entities, and the final outcome should be closer to what the states that send them want and less what Capitol Hill with its own little cliquish agenda, not the people's wants from different parts of the country with different needs.

I'm convinced repealing the 17th would prevent the liars of the press letting lies dictate how the nation is run.

That would be sooooo cool.

 

[freedombecki]

They already have. Remember MI appointing city managers who are able to override the local government and fire officials, sell assets and other things, all without a vote from the people?

And that is happening in GOP controlled states.

Michigan votes Democrat a lot.

Example of GOP states you said are doing likewise?

Actually, Michigan is one of 'em.

The Governor of Michigan is the chief executive of the U.S. State of Michigan. The current Governor is Rick Snyder, a member of the Republican Party.

Governor of Michigan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sucks when your partisan talking points gets blown outta the water, eh? Michigan IS a GOP controlled state.

Oh, so the Michigan's Detroit Free Press are all GOP? Sorry, ABikerSailor, I visited their website over a 7 year period. The big shots of the Democrats got rid of every last conservative poster employing meanness and shunning. I was the last conservative there. When they started eating my liver too over nothing at all, I left, but I went back and read. All they ever did was drink koolaid and worship leftists. I have a hard time reconciling my 7 years among Michigan posters who decimated people with character assassination that was uncalled for. For the next couple of years after I left, they eventually imploded, and the owner of the website gave up hosting nothing but obfuscations for 24/7/365.

Anyway, thank you for the update. Now which are those other GOP States that are "appointing city managers who are able to override the local government and fire officials, sell assets and other things, all without a vote from the people?"

By the way, I am not hostile to your answers, and I am interested in what you have to say.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Michigan votes Democrat a lot.

Example of GOP states you said are doing likewise?

Actually, Michigan is one of 'em.

The Governor of Michigan is the chief executive of the U.S. State of Michigan. The current Governor is Rick Snyder, a member of the Republican Party.

Governor of Michigan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sucks when your partisan talking points gets blown outta the water, eh? Michigan IS a GOP controlled state.

Oh, so the Michigan's Detroit Free Press are all GOP? Sorry, ABikerSailor, I visited their website over a 7 year period. The big shots of the Democrats got rid of every last conservative poster employing meanness and shunning. I was the last conservative there. When they started eating my liver too over nothing at all, I left, but I went back and read. All they ever did was drink koolaid and worship leftists. I have a hard time reconciling my 7 years among Michigan posters who decimated people with character assassination that was uncalled for. For the next couple of years after I left, they eventually imploded, and the owner of the website gave up hosting nothing but obfuscations for 24/7/365.

Anyway, thank you for the update. Now which are those other GOP States that are "appointing city managers who are able to override the local government and fire officials, sell assets and other things, all without a vote from the people?"

By the way, I am not hostile to your answers, and I am interested in what you have to say.

So............it's not a GOP controlled state if the governor is a Republican? You may wish to check out the makeup of the rest of the state government, you'll find it's mainly GOP types in office from the landslide of 2010.

 

[Toro]

One thing that surprises me about America is how anti-Democratic some on the fringe right are. America's global "brand" first and foremost is democracy.

 

[jillian]

One thing that surprises me about America is how anti-Democratic some on the fringe right are. America's global "brand" first and foremost is democracy.

what positions has romney taken that differe from the most extreme on the right?

 

[Toro]

One thing that surprises me about America is how anti-Democratic some on the fringe right are. America's global "brand" first and foremost is democracy.

what positions has romney taken that differe from the most extreme on the right?

Romney has what to do with this thread?

 

[Listening]

Come on Sallow, you know precisely why it's needed. Remember...balance between the large states and the small states. The Senate is where Rhode Island can avoid getting trampled by New York. I can think of a lot of states that would have a very strong opinion about getting rid of the Senate. In addition to RI there's Wyoming, Alaska, Hawaii, Idaho, Vermont, Connecticut, etc, etc, etc

And the reason for the Electoral College.

I'm sure the left would like to see that repealed.

for all of you newcomers to USMB ----- T is here = alert!

And if there was a smiley that was a brown pile of fresh cow crapp, it would be associated with your name a great deal.

T is absolutely corrent in what he says.

 

[Listening]

One thing that surprises me about America is how anti-Democratic some on the fringe right are. America's global "brand" first and foremost is democracy.

what positions has romney taken that differe from the most extreme on the right?

And who defines what is extreme...shillian ?

 

[Listening]

MuadDib is USMB's latest, biggest, blowhard

A lot of us wonder today why Congress is FUBARed. The answer is simple. One house of the US Congress no longer functions the way it was designed by the Founder and Framers: the US Senate.

According to Article 1 Section 3, Clause 1:

...

It functions as intended. Simpletons like you mistake process of elections for governing.

Sorry there moron, but it does not function as intended.

And it is whose doing the electing that is the key point in all this.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I love how rightingnuts are whining about the house that's keeping the nutbars in the House under control. If it was reversed and the House was dem, you'd be saying that only the senate should exist.

The pretend constitutionalists hate the constitution. It's so funny.

Actually dumb ass the person saying the Senate should be abolished is a liberal.

 

[Annie]

One thing that surprises me about America is how anti-Democratic some on the fringe right are. America's global "brand" first and foremost is democracy.

It used to be.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The Senate balances the demographic and regional needs of the nation, is necessary for separation of powers plus checks/balances, and broadens the powers of the voting base.

 

[Old Rocks]

A lot of us wonder today why Congress is FUBARed. The answer is simple. One house of the US Congress no longer functions the way it was designed by the Founder and Framers: the US Senate.

According to Article 1 Section 3, Clause 1:

The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each State, chosen by the Legislature thereof, for six Years; and each Senator shall have one Vote.

Originally, US Senators were not elected by the people. They were appointed by the state legislatures. The House of Representatives were elected by the people to represent the interests of the people. The Senate was appointed by the state legislatures to represent the inerests of the states. That kept senators out of the political process.

That was changed 1910 by the progressives when they changed that with the 17th Amendment:

The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each State, elected by the people thereof, for six years; and each Senator shall have one vote. The electors in each State shall have the qualifications requisite for electors of the most numerous branch of the State legislatures.
When vacancies happen in the representation of any State in the Senate, the executive authority of such State shall issue writs of election to fill such vacancies: Provided, That the legislature of any State may empower the executive thereof to make temporary appointments until the people fill the vacancies by election as the legislature may direct.

This amendment shall not be so construed as to affect the election or term of any Senator chosen before it becomes valid as part of the Constitution.

Now the Senate is subject to the same potitical processes as the House and nothing more that a higher form of the House of Representatives.

Hilarity ensues!

There were all too many cases of the Senate seat being bought. Some were done openly to the point that even the other Senators rebelled. That is how the 17th Amendment came about. A good Amendment, and we will keep it, thank you.


William A. Clark - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Clark yearned to be a statesman and used his newspaper, the Butte Miner, to push his political ambitions. At this time, Butte was one of the largest cities in the West. He became a hero in Helena, Montana, by campaigning for its election as the state capital instead of Anaconda. This battle for the placement of the capital had subtle Irish vs. English, Catholic vs. Protestant, and Masonic vs. non-Masonic elements. Clark's long-standing dream of becoming a United States Senator resulted in scandal in 1899 when it was revealed that he bribed members of the Montana State Legislature in return for their votes. At the time, U.S. Senators were chosen by their respective state legislators; the corruption of his election contributed to the passage of the 17th Amendment. The U.S. Senate refused to seat Clark because of the 1899 bribery scheme, but a later senate campaign was successful, and he served a single term from 1901 until 1907. In responding to criticism of his bribery of the Montana legislature, Clark is reported to have said, "I never bought a man who wasn't for sale."[4]

 

[Oddball]

One thing that surprises me about America is how anti-Democratic some on the fringe right are. America's global "brand" first and foremost is democracy.

Democracy schlemocracy.

The American republic was constructed to protect against the rule of the mob....All that a popularly elected Senate does is give us bicameral mobocracy.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Which is a better than an elitist "society of equals".

 

[Oddball]

Yeah, right.

Unrepentant criminals like Dianne Frankenstein and Harry Reid, along with career pinhead demagogues like Chuck Schumer, are soooooooo much better a bargain.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Than a Mitch McConnell and John Boehner? The problem is not our elected reps so much, Oddball, as it is us, the American electorate, who elect exactly the type of reps we deserve.