Zone1 Religion is not needed if a "golden rule" is valued

[BreezeWood]

Genesis, duh.

In order to have laws you have to have a law maker, FYI.

no, or you believe in liars than what are the laws ... from the heavens there are no authors.

 

[ding]

no, or you believe in liars than what are the laws ... from the heavens there are no authors.

Nature's Law or Natural Law is real and does exist.

 

[DukeU]

no, or you believe in liars than what are the laws ... from the heavens there are no authors.

Seek and you shall find.

 

[Blues Man]

That's why it's called faith, I can admit that.

But, thanks for admitting you don't know either. It's a step.

No one knows. So why insist that some god had to do it?

And what's more it doesn't really matter how we got here. We came in to the theater after the movie started and we'll be gone before it ends all that matters is how you comport yourself when you are here.

 

[Blues Man]

But I don't. I'm not the one suffering for it.

Nor am I

And your god has nothing to do with it

 

[ding]

Nor am I

And your god has nothing to do with it

If that were true you wouldn't be here trying to convince others to believe as you do.

 

[Grumblenuts]

all that matters is how you comport yourself when you are here.

From Google:

What does comport yourself mean?


: to behave in a certain way. used especially in situations where the behavior is admirable or appropriate. He comported himself with dignity. She comported herself well during the crisis.

Goddammit! Who threw this dead cat at me?

 

[ding]

So why insist that some god had to do it?

Are we insisting or are we defending our beliefs from your attacks?

 

[Blues Man]

If that were true you wouldn't be here trying to convince others to believe as you do.

I'm not trying to convince you of anything it's you zealots who proselytize.

Your god was forced on countless people at the tip of a sword

 

[Blues Man]

Are we insisting or are we defending our beliefs from your attacks?

You are insisting. Everyone who doesn't believe what you believe is wrong remember?

 

[ding]

I'm not trying to convince you of anything it's you zealots who proselytize.

Your god was forced on countless people at the tip of a sword

No one is proselytizing you. That's all in your head.

And you most certainly are arguing against believing in God. So how can you say you aren't trying to convince others to not believe in God?

 

[ding]

You are insisting. Everyone who doesn't believe what you believe is wrong remember?

No, I am not insisting. I am defending my faith against attacks from people like you. I couldn't care less what you or anyone else believes.

 

[Red Front]

There are MANY religions, and most are thousands of years old when few were able to read, and even fewer understood scientific knowledge about the universe that is evident today.
Which religion is best? Why would you choose a religion when its leaders don't understand natural, scientific reality?

Empathy and a golden rule is all one needs to be "ethical".

Even though I have my criticism of Christianity and its adherents, I would say Christianity when done right, is the best, most impressive religion. I have witnessed miracles, the supernatural, in Jesus' Name. So, we can argue all day about the historicity of the events described in the gospels and in the Bible in general (OT-NT), but when it comes down to it, irrespective of the historicity of events, there's something there that is real and powerful. Maybe it's the way that Christian beliefs affect human consciousness, "triggering" miracles, as if the universe approves of the beliefs, even if it's not historical in a literal sense. Christ might be a cosmic "archetype" symbolizing self-sacrifice and love.

We still don't fully grasp the nature of human consciousness and how the universe works. It's pretty much a mystery that we're researching and trying to unravel. Maybe a mind "possessed" or maybe I should say occupied, by a certain set of values and sentiments, "faith", can alter the physical world, with their minds. Christians who have suspended their disbelief or rational mind and are operating in a meta-rational state of thinking, a supra-rational form of thought that is in a higher dimension, allowing that person to function at a "higher frequency" of alignment with higher beings ("angelic beings"). Maybe that's how a true, genuine disciple of Jesus can perform miracles.

I believe most so-called "Christians", aren't truly Christians, they're charlatans and jokers, trying to trick God into saving them, because they refuse to die. To carry their crosses and follow Christ to Golgotha, the place of the skull, outside the walls of the city. Life in Christ requires the death of the disciple. The true born again (born from above) believer, is someone who is fully committed to The Way, of the straight and narrow, carrying their cross daily and dying, loving their brothers and sisters as Christ loved them. Such people are rare. What we have are "fad Christians", the greasy-grace "sinner's prayer", mega-church "Christianity", that Jesus will reject.

Mat 7:21-23 Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. (22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? (23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity (GRK-ANOMIA-LAWLESSNESS).

 

[hobelim]

China is another discussion we should have. Suffice to say for now, I believe that China may have invented a brand of capitalism that really works.

Although I have enjoyed finding common ground in our previous discussions I have to say that here is where you and I could not differ more.

In the same way that here there is only the illusion of a separation between church and state there is only the illusion of capitalism, free markets, in China in the same way that Pax Romana was only the illusion of peace.

And if you really think that China has invented a brand of capitalism that really works I think you are at best misinformed, brainwashed, or a propagandist, no more enlightened than a tree stump

Maybe you should ask yourself who is benefitting from what you call a form of capitalism that really works and then see how the majority of people are living as victims of state sanctioned human rights abuses, either as prisoners, forced laborers, or payed 'workers' living in walled prison villages who see little or no benefit from their labor have no liberty or justice of any kind and no hope for economic advance and then take another closer and harder look. Damn.

Maybe you'll notice, however smart they may be, that their economy is on the verge of collapse.

And if they see no practical wisdom in the teaching born of hard learned lessons of the past that will always be relevant for as long as there are people on earth that were encapsulated in scripture, invaluable treasures, edifying knowledge worthy of preserving and perpetuating, they may not be as smart as they would like for everyone to think that they are.

 

[hobelim]

It was paraphrased by Jesus, allegedly anyway , but since Jesus was illiterate and never wrote anything down himself we'll never really know will we?

I agree that everything that Jesus taught he had drawn from what was written in the torah. But that in itself shows that he wasn't illiterate by teaching about the figurative language used.

How could he have had such knowledge without being able to read the scrolls himself as was recorded by him reading from Isaiah in synagogue? "In this day this scripture is fulfilled.", also "Is it not written in your own law", "satan was a murderer from the beginning" from A&E, etc. etc.

 

[Donald H]

Although I have enjoyed finding common ground in our previous discussions I have to say that here is where you and I could not differ more.

In the same way that here there is only the illusion of a separation between church and state there is only the illusion of capitalism, free markets, in China in the same way that Pax Romana was only the illusion of peace.

And if you really think that China has invented a brand of capitalism that really works I think you are at best misinformed, brainwashed, or a propagandist, no more enlightened than a tree stump

They have raised hundreds of millions of their people up out of poverty.

Maybe you should ask yourself who is benefitting from what you call a form of capitalism that really works and then see how the majority of people are living as victims of state sanctioned human rights abuses, either as prisoners, forced laborers, or payed 'workers' living in walled prison villages who see little or no benefit from their labor have no liberty or justice of any kind and no hope for economic advance and then take another closer and harder look. Damn.

But some of the people 'do' have a chance for economic advance because what I said above is absolutely true.

Maybe you'll notice, however smart they may be, that their economy is on the verge of collapse.

Maybe their economy isn't on the verge of collapse. That might just be US hate propaganda.

And if they see no practical wisdom in the teaching born of hard learned lessons of the past that will always be relevant for as long as there are people on earth that were encapsulated in scripture, invaluable treasures, edifying knowledge worthy of preserving and perpetuating, they may not be as smart as they would like for everyone to think that they are.

I don't think China has a priority of having everybody think they're smart.

I've said it before but I'll say it again. China is practicing a brand of capitalism that is combined with social responsibility toward the people. There's always the hundreds of millions, as I suggested above.

I'm starting to detect a bad mood and a sour attitude, and that doesn't relay to me that you would like to see China and their people succeed. That doesn't leave much of a reason for us to discuss something together.

 

[Red Front]

They have raised hundreds of millions of their people up out of poverty.

But some of the people 'do' have a chance for economic advance because what I said above is absolutely true.

Maybe their economy isn't on the verge of collapse. That might just be US hate propaganda.

I don't think China has a priority of having everybody think they're smart.

I've said it before but I'll say it again. China is practicing a brand of capitalism that is combined with social responsibility toward the people. There's always the hundreds of millions, as I suggested above.

I'm starting to detect a bad mood and a sour attitude, and that doesn't relay to me that you would like to see China and their people succeed. That doesn't leave much of a reason for us to discuss something together.

China has a mixed economy and compared to the US and other capitalist-run economies, there's much more central planning. China's infrastructure is one of the most modern in the world:

​

Here in NYC most subway stations are pathetically rundown and old. Disgusting. There are a few that are more modern, but most of the stations and infrastructure here is shameful compared to China's. We also have to deal with out-of-control street crime and homeless people sleeping on the train. That's what MAGA-hats call "freedom", whereas the Chinese under the authority of a government led by communists, are supposedly enslaved, yet live in a society with much less crime and more modern, robust infrastructure. Their idea of "freedom" is weird.

 

[hobelim]

They have raised hundreds of millions of their people up out of poverty.

Sure, by exporting garbage manufactured by people without basic human rights.. Awesome!

I'm starting to detect a bad mood and a sour attitude, and that doesn't relay to me that you would like to see China and their people succeed.

Bad mood? Sour attitude? Have I offended your delicate ears? Seriously? Nice try at deflection. Does that crap work on people in China? Damn. For any people to succeed they all need to have basic human rights. Prosperity for many from what amounts to the slavery and abuse of many many more isn't such a good thing, is it?

That doesn't leave much of a reason for us to discuss something together.

Well, if discussing the deplorable conditions of the people isn't reason enough then screw you.

 

[Donald H]

Sure, by exporting garbage manufactured by people without basic human rights.. Awesome!

But the fact remains, doesn't it. That fact comes back to raise the question on what are human rights?

Bad mood? Sour attitude? Have I offended your delicate ears? Seriously? Nice try at deflection. Does that crap work on people in China? Damn. For any people to succeed they all need to have basic human rights. Prosperity for many from what amounts to the slavery and abuse of many many more isn't such a good thing, is it?

Is raising millions of China's people up out of poverty consistent with a lack of human rights.

Well, if discussing the deplorable conditions of the people isn't reason enough then screw you.

And with that comment, I see no reason to continue a discussion with you.

 

[ding]

The three of you deserve each other.