religion is just brainwashing

[BULLDOG]

If you can present some credible evidence that God created the earth, I will happily believe it. So far no one has been able to do that. Care to give it a shot?

How does it matter, how does it affect anyone's life, whether or not God created the earth?

I can see how it could. I'm not the one trying to convince anyone of anything. I haven't seen credible evidence of God, so I don't think he exists.

 

[harmonica]

....all the Catholics I know, including my father's family, grew up Catholic
since they were babies, their parents took them to church and school where they were taught, from their earliest childhood--about Catholicism
...this is like brainwashing kids to believe in ''something''
..sure, they ask them if they want to ''renounce satan, follow jesus, etc--later!--but even this is ''forced'' on them
isn't this the way most religions are?

if I were born in Indonesia, chances are very, very great I would not be Catholic--but Islamic---

Okay, first of all, so what?

Second of all, what do you think parenting IS, except for teaching your children right and wrong and the way the world works to the best of your understanding?

Third, very few people in my experience retain the beliefs they are taught as children without ever giving them any contemplation as adults. It's much more common for people to hit an age where they begin forming their own views and opinions, and either reject their parents' beliefs for good, or eventually choose on their own to accept them.

If you really, genuinely want to explore this, then fine, but frankly, the tone of your post suggests you're really just looking to rant and rail against religion. Which takes us back to my first question: so what? What's it to you what people believe and why?

first of all--this is a forum---anybody and everybody can say--''so what''--what a dumbass you are--this is a DISCUSSION forum
since you don't want to discuss civilly and politely--you get the ignore button
''the tone''' ..there is no tone

 

[BULLDOG]

... That's just nuts. Atheists have no religious beliefs.

Only if they are not atheists. Or how do you know that not god created the world?

If you can present some credible evidence that God created the earth, I will happily believe it. So far no one has been able to do that. Care to give it a shot?

I know what I believe. You don't know what I believe. Anyway I have now not the patience any longer to hang in the line. So bye bye.

Coward.

Idiot.

Your turn.

OK. I guess either you don't care enough about your religion to say why anyone should think it is real, or you just don't know enough about it yourself to make a convincing argument.

 

[Meriweather]

If you can present some credible evidence that God created the earth, I will happily believe it. So far no one has been able to do that. Care to give it a shot?

How does it matter, how does it affect anyone's life, whether or not God created the earth?

I can see how it could. I'm not the one trying to convince anyone of anything. I haven't seen credible evidence of God, so I don't think he exists.

Do you believe humans are composed solely of body and mind, or of body, mind, and spirit?

 

[G.T.]

My Daughter and I drive by this white church every day on her way to school.

She is 5 years old.

My wife and I decided that no Religious propoganda will be presented to our children by either of us until they're through with their earlier formative years.

I believe that, to learn things at an age where your mind accepts and trusts information from those that you confide in.....deeply imbeds those things in you forever ~ and if you learn different at a later age then its a handicapped struggle with yourself because you have to overcome the imbedded brainwashing to achieve true wisdom on the subject.

I feel that Religious teachings to minors is, in fact, child abuse.

My Daughter has asked a few times now ~ and I dance around the subject and simply tell her that it's a club that some folks decide to join, and we did not.

 

[harmonica]

what's with the bible stuff?
where's the Koran quotes?

 

[harmonica]

If you can present some credible evidence that God created the earth, I will happily believe it. So far no one has been able to do that. Care to give it a shot?

How does it matter, how does it affect anyone's life, whether or not God created the earth?

I can see how it could. I'm not the one trying to convince anyone of anything. I haven't seen credible evidence of God, so I don't think he exists.

Do you believe humans are composed solely of body and mind, or of body, mind, and spirit?

you can't prove there is a spirit
isn't that just a belief?
man needs to believe in a life after-..and/or a spirit......if not, humans will feel ''empty''
do you believe a spirit lives after the body is dead?
does the spirit have the ability to ''see/feel/hear/etc?
I don't feel a spirit

my brother is very religious..he said he felt something/a spirit/god at one of those singing/praising/group things
1. isn't that just what he wants to believe---people believe a lot of stuff that is not real--especially if they are deeply immersed in the subject? such as UFO believers
2. what did he really feel?? didn't he really feel normal, human emotions?

there has never been a true miracle/sighting of god/sighting of a spirit/ etc

 

[Meriweather]

My Daughter and I drive by this white church every day on her way to school.

She is 5 years old.

My wife and I decided that no Religious propoganda will be presented to our chikdren by either of us until they're through with their earlier formative years.

I believe that, to learn things at an age where your mind accepts and trusts information from those that you confide in.....deeply imbeds those things in you forever ~ and if you learn different at a later age then its a handicapped struggle with yourself because you have to overcome the imbedded brainwashing to achieve true wisdom on the subject.

I feel that Religious teachings to minors is, in fact, child abuse.

My Daughter has asked a few times now ~ and I dance around the subject and simply tell her that it's a club that some folks decide to join, and we did not.

How would you respond to parents who wish to home school their children so that they can avoid having them learn about evolution and adaptation, not to mention sex education?

When a child is old enough to ask a question, they are old enough to learn. The problem is not teaching young children about God, the problem is parents/children believing they learned everything there is to know about faith when they were children. I would advise telling children that some people believe that an individual is made up of body, mind, and spirit, and that these people believe there is an ultimate spirit that we call God. Tell children this is all very complicated and it is your opinion it is best pursued when they are older and able to understand just how complicated it is. (Remember, just my opinion for those who have no belief.)

 

[harmonica]

My Daughter and I drive by this white church every day on her way to school.

She is 5 years old.

My wife and I decided that no Religious propoganda will be presented to our children by either of us until they're through with their earlier formative years.

I believe that, to learn things at an age where your mind accepts and trusts information from those that you confide in.....deeply imbeds those things in you forever ~ and if you learn different at a later age then its a handicapped struggle with yourself because you have to overcome the imbedded brainwashing to achieve true wisdom on the subject.

I feel that Religious teachings to minors is, in fact, child abuse.

My Daughter has asked a few times now ~ and I dance around the subject and simply tell her that it's a club that some folks decide to join, and we did not.

thanks for reply
later on what will you tell her about religions/etc?

 

[BULLDOG]

If you can present some credible evidence that God created the earth, I will happily believe it. So far no one has been able to do that. Care to give it a shot?

How does it matter, how does it affect anyone's life, whether or not God created the earth?

I can see how it could. I'm not the one trying to convince anyone of anything. I haven't seen credible evidence of God, so I don't think he exists.

Do you believe humans are composed solely of body and mind, or of body, mind, and spirit?

If you mean a ghost like spirit that is separate from the rest, I have no reason to believe that exists. If you have evidence of that, I would like to see it.

 

[harmonica]

....all the Catholics I know, including my father's family, grew up Catholic
since they were babies, their parents took them to church and school where they were taught, from their earliest childhood--about Catholicism
...this is like brainwashing kids to believe in ''something''
..sure, they ask them if they want to ''renounce satan, follow jesus, etc--later!--but even this is ''forced'' on them
isn't this the way most religions are?

if I were born in Indonesia, chances are very, very great I would not be Catholic--but Islamic---

So because your parents are Catholics this minimized your risk to become an Islamist. That's why your parents are wrong.

?? wrong? how?

 

[harmonica]

Catholic bashing is so last century.

I'm not Catholic bashing as much as bashing ''humans''--humans invented religion

Never in history existed human beings without religion. Also atheism is only a belief. So you speak about that human beings have to be bashed because they are human beings. A full time job for a slave driver, who tries to enslave everyone and oneself.

I'm not bashing anyone

 

[G.T.]

My Daughter and I drive by this white church every day on her way to school.

She is 5 years old.

My wife and I decided that no Religious propoganda will be presented to our chikdren by either of us until they're through with their earlier formative years.

I believe that, to learn things at an age where your mind accepts and trusts information from those that you confide in.....deeply imbeds those things in you forever ~ and if you learn different at a later age then its a handicapped struggle with yourself because you have to overcome the imbedded brainwashing to achieve true wisdom on the subject.

I feel that Religious teachings to minors is, in fact, child abuse.

My Daughter has asked a few times now ~ and I dance around the subject and simply tell her that it's a club that some folks decide to join, and we did not.

How would you respond to parents who wish to home school their children so that they can avoid having them learn about evolution and adaptation, not to mention sex education?

When a child is old enough to ask a question, they are old enough to learn. The problem is not teaching young children about God, the problem is parents/children believing they learned everything there is to know about faith when they were children. I would advise telling children that some people believe that an individual is made up of body, mind, and spirit, and that these people believe there is an ultimate spirit that we call God. Tell children this is all very complicated and it is your opinion it is best pursued when they are older and able to understand just how complicated it is. (Remember, just my opinion for those who have no belief.)

I see no pressing reason to tell her about peoples' beliefs in a god or gods at such an early age.

I *do see a pressing reason for her to learn evolution.

She will also have sex education once it's age appropriate.

 

[G.T.]

My Daughter and I drive by this white church every day on her way to school.

She is 5 years old.

My wife and I decided that no Religious propoganda will be presented to our children by either of us until they're through with their earlier formative years.

I believe that, to learn things at an age where your mind accepts and trusts information from those that you confide in.....deeply imbeds those things in you forever ~ and if you learn different at a later age then its a handicapped struggle with yourself because you have to overcome the imbedded brainwashing to achieve true wisdom on the subject.

I feel that Religious teachings to minors is, in fact, child abuse.

My Daughter has asked a few times now ~ and I dance around the subject and simply tell her that it's a club that some folks decide to join, and we did not.

thanks for reply
later on what will you tell her about religions/etc?

When she is old enough to have heard it in hearsay and comes to ask me about it ~ I will tell her that I believe it's a tool that's been used in brainwashing humans since recorded history ~ and that over time, much of it has been relegated to the consequences of being proven wrong by scientific discovery, and the advancing abilities of human reasoning.

I will then direct her to study any Religion she wishes, and tell her that Ultimately, she will decide for herself.

 

[harmonica]

for everyone who is ''bashing me'' --hahahhaaha---please answer:
if you are Christian now, you would most probably be Islamic/Muslim if you had grown up in Indonesia--yes or no?
obviously the answer is yes

if you grew up in Boston, chances are you would not be Islamic/Muslim--chances are you would be Christian
your '''belief''/religion has a lot to do with where you grow up.....
why? because that's what you grew up with and were taught--not because god or allah is the true--only religion

 

[Meriweather]

you can't prove there is a spirit
isn't that just a belief?
man needs to believe in a life after-..and/or a spirit......if not, humans will feel ''empty''
do you believe a spirit lives after the body is dead?
does the spirit have the ability to ''see/feel/hear/etc?
I don't feel a spirit

my brother is very religious..he said he felt something/a spirit/god at one of those singing/praising/group things
1. isn't that just what he wants to believe---people believe a lot of stuff that is not real--especially if they are deeply immersed in the subject? such as UFO believers
2. what did he really feel?? didn't he really feel normal, human emotions?

there has never been a true miracle/sighting of god/sighting of a spirit/ etc

Do you wish to talk science? Proof and evidence require material things. Religion is not science, it is philosophy.

As for body, mind, and spirit: The body is physical, and in many respects so is the mind. It gathers data. There are some who believe the mind gathers data and argues with itself until a determination is made. Others believe it is more (and less) complicated than that. That the mind collects data, but it is spirit that makes the decisions.

The argument that man "needs to believe in an afterlife" is a conclusion atheists have formed for people who do believe. They compare us to those who believe in UFO's, flat earth, no moon landing. We just laugh.

Yes, there have been true sightings. However, that cannot qualify as science, because science requires that the experience must be duplicated. Juan Diego, Bernadette, the three children of Fatima are dismissed because their experiences cannot be duplicated.

For me, it is not a matter of "believing" the spirit (the essential person) lives on after death, I know it lives on. (I know this makes me a "crackpot" , but it is what I know and I cannot deny it.) I think this is probably the same thing your brother lives with. He cannot deny what he knows to be true. Since there is no "evidence" he lives in a lonely place sometimes.

 

[Meriweather]

for everyone who is ''bashing me'' --hahahhaaha---please answer:
if you are Christian now, you would most probably be Islamic/Muslim if you had grown up in Indonesia--yes or no?
obviously the answer is yes

if you grew up in Boston, chances are you would not be Islamic/Muslim--chances are you would be Christian
your '''belief''/religion has a lot to do with where you grow up.....
why? because that's what you grew up with and were taught--not because god or allah is the true--only religion

Why does this seem to bother you? God is vast. Why wouldn't people approach Him from vastly different perspectives? For example, if people witness an event, investigators expect to see differences. If there are no differences it makes them look into possible collusion.

When I was little, the local pools had strict guidelines. It wasn't until I was much older, and moved to other towns, that I learned that these local pools did not follow the same guidelines. Also, as a substitute teacher, I am intensely aware that each classroom is run differently. So, I am wondering why it matters to you that all believers are not in lockstep with one another?

 

[harmonica]

you can't prove there is a spirit
isn't that just a belief?
man needs to believe in a life after-..and/or a spirit......if not, humans will feel ''empty''
do you believe a spirit lives after the body is dead?
does the spirit have the ability to ''see/feel/hear/etc?
I don't feel a spirit

my brother is very religious..he said he felt something/a spirit/god at one of those singing/praising/group things
1. isn't that just what he wants to believe---people believe a lot of stuff that is not real--especially if they are deeply immersed in the subject? such as UFO believers
2. what did he really feel?? didn't he really feel normal, human emotions?

there has never been a true miracle/sighting of god/sighting of a spirit/ etc

Do you wish to talk science? Proof and evidence require material things. Religion is not science, it is philosophy.

As for body, mind, and spirit: The body is physical, and in many respects so is the mind. It gathers data. There are some who believe the mind gathers data and argues with itself until a determination is made. Others believe it is more (and less) complicated than that. That the mind collects data, but it is spirit that makes the decisions.

The argument that man "needs to believe in an afterlife" is a conclusion atheists have formed for people who do believe. They compare us to those who believe in UFO's, flat earth, no moon landing. We just laugh.

Yes, there have been true sightings. However, that cannot qualify as science, because science requires that the experience must be duplicated. Juan Diego, Bernadette, the three children of Fatima are dismissed because their experiences cannot be duplicated.

For me, it is not a matter of "believing" the spirit (the essential person) lives on after death, I know it lives on. (I know this makes me a "crackpot" , but it is what I know and I cannot deny it.) I think this is probably the same thing your brother lives with. He cannot deny what he knows to be true. Since there is no "evidence" he lives in a lonely place sometimes.

thanks for the reply--especially one that is civil and polite...
I guess I should've started another thread on this, my bad....

first it has to be proven to really have happened
so 3 children say they saw Mary? in 1917??!? is there any real proof?
also, we have many witnesses to the MBrown shooting in Ferguson in 2014 and there are many, many controversies, contradictions, lies, falsehoods, myths, etc-
we also have the same for the 1963 assassination of JFK-where there is some video
these are examples of falsehoods/myths/lies/etc--from very recent times
--so surely it would be the same for something that happened way back in 1917

 

[harmonica]

for everyone who is ''bashing me'' --hahahhaaha---please answer:
if you are Christian now, you would most probably be Islamic/Muslim if you had grown up in Indonesia--yes or no?
obviously the answer is yes

if you grew up in Boston, chances are you would not be Islamic/Muslim--chances are you would be Christian
your '''belief''/religion has a lot to do with where you grow up.....
why? because that's what you grew up with and were taught--not because god or allah is the true--only religion

Why does this seem to bother you? God is vast. Why wouldn't people approach Him from vastly different perspectives? For example, if people witness an event, investigators expect to see differences. If there are no differences it makes them look into possible collusion.

When I was little, the local pools had strict guidelines. It wasn't until I was much older, and moved to other towns, that I learned that these local pools did not follow the same guidelines. Also, as a substitute teacher, I am intensely aware that each classroom is run differently. So, I am wondering why it matters to you that all believers are not in lockstep with one another?

nothing is bothering me--this shows you have pre-conceived ideas--that are brainwashing you
I'm pointing out the statistics show that the parents/culture/area --''brainwashes''/teaches/etc the kids the religion of that particular area....
the Muslims don't teach their kids Christianity

 

[Meriweather]

thanks for the reply--especially one that is civil and polite...
I guess I should've started another thread on this, my bad....

first it has to be proven to really have happened
so 3 children say they saw Mary? in 1917??!? is there any real proof?
also, we have many witnesses to the MBrown shooting in Ferguson in 2014 and there are many, many controversies, contradictions, lies, falsehoods, myths, etc-
we also have the same for the 1963 assassination of JFK-where there is some video
these are examples of falsehoods/myths/lies/etc--from very recent times
--so surely it would be the same for something that happened way back in 1917

This is why I am not concerned about different faiths throughout the world. The three incidents I have mentioned are not the only visions of Mary; there are more. Bernadette and Lourdes is another place where there are many controversies. Some say they absolutely were healed there; others say, no change.

This is a site that lists Marian appearances, for those who are interested. Like the original three I named, there will probably be controversies and contradictions, etc.

This Is the Most Complete List of Marian Apparitions

My recommendation is not to dwell overly much on the stories of others, but to seek out God in your own way. For example, I was fascinated with My Little Golden Book stories about Noah and Abraham, but I did not want God to ask me to build an ark (I didn't know anything about construction), or to sacrifice a young ram that He would provide for me. (I'd want to keep it as a pet.) On the other hand, I did want to have an experience of God myself--and not just read about them.