religion is just brainwashing

[ding]

It provides answers and strength and guidance and comfort to many.

Why do grown adults need a fairy tale to "provide answers and strength?"

Humans have always had that need. If mocking and insulting them makes you feel a little better about yourself (it looks like you have a need, too, huh?), have at it.
.

Its best when the answers come from a bedrock of truth, as opposed to speculative dogma with weak foundation.

It doesnt ultimately serve the one seeking answers and strength when it comes from a lie.

What is your bedrock of truth, GT?

 

[ding]

... Making kids religious is a form of child abuse.

What you say here shows to me that there's indeed not a big distance between intentional ignorance and a criminal behavior. Buy a good book about developmental psychology and take a look what's written there for example about "magic age". You would be a child abuser on your own, if you would try to force children to make idiotic decisions about the own gender - what's completely unimportant for children - while you would the same time try to eliminate the normal human development. Or let me say it in a way so very child is able to understand it: Santa Claus (=Saint Nicholas, born much more than 1500 years ago in Myra) still exists - and presents will come. We (= all children under 120 years) will find ways - whether you try to steal the Christmas presents of all children or not.

You will find a way to brainwash the kids, no matter what? That's what we thought.

I don't know why some people of the english speaking world are not able to read my German. I will repeat for you what I said:

(1) Every human being was always religious since human beings are existing (except perhaps on reasons of brain defects)
(2) Atheism is a belief

And what I did not say until now: If the USA should need body guards for Santa, we have some ...

I'm agnostic, and no, people aren't born religious, it's a man-made concept.

No. You are not agnostic. If you were agnostic you wouldn't be arguing about anyone's beliefs because by default you admit that you do not know.

 

[ding]

... Making kids religious is a form of child abuse.

What you say here shows to me that there's indeed not a big distance between intentional ignorance and a criminal behavior. Buy a good book about developmental psychology and take a look what's written there for example about "magic age". You would be a child abuser on your own, if you would try to force children to make idiotic decisions about the own gender - what's completely unimportant for children - while you would the same time try to eliminate the normal human development. Or let me say it in a way so very child is able to understand it: Santa Claus (=Saint Nicholas, born much more than 1500 years ago in Myra) still exists - and presents will come. We (= all children under 120 years) will find ways - whether you try to steal the Christmas presents of all children or not.

You will find a way to brainwash the kids, no matter what? That's what we thought.

I don't know why some people of the english speaking world are not able to read my German. I will repeat for you what I said:

(1) Every human being was always religious since human beings are existing (except perhaps on reasons of brain defects)
(2) Atheism is a belief

And what I did not say until now: If the USA should need body guards for Santa, we have some ...

I'm agnostic, and no, people aren't born religious, it's a man-made concept.

I think the reason that it is so common, is because our sentience and fear cause us to rationalize death as best we can.

Luckily, humans kind of understand that it's just a rationalization ~ so instead of simply accepting death as it comes, we continue to study biology and extend life expectancy and comfort......and will continue to do so right up until we are half human and half computer, living for as long as our power source and luck in avoiding natural disasters will allow

So, it is not about living the best life possible?

Who was it that taught you about religion anyway?

 

[ding]

What you say here shows to me that there's indeed not a big distance between intentional ignorance and a criminal behavior. Buy a good book about developmental psychology and take a look what's written there for example about "magic age". You would be a child abuser on your own, if you would try to force children to make idiotic decisions about the own gender - what's completely unimportant for children - while you would the same time try to eliminate the normal human development. Or let me say it in a way so very child is able to understand it: Santa Claus (=Saint Nicholas, born much more than 1500 years ago in Myra) still exists - and presents will come. We (= all children under 120 years) will find ways - whether you try to steal the Christmas presents of all children or not.

You will find a way to brainwash the kids, no matter what? That's what we thought.

I don't know why some people of the english speaking world are not able to read my German. I will repeat for you what I said:

(1) Every human being was always religious since human beings are existing (except perhaps on reasons of brain defects)
(2) Atheism is a belief

And what I did not say until now: If the USA should need body guards for Santa, we have some ...

I'm agnostic, and no, people aren't born religious, it's a man-made concept.

If you follow the philosophy agnosticism then you know that atheism is belief. And it's completely clear that every human being is religious. Thr fiets human cultures started with religion. Your problem is perhaps that you are a brainwashed brainwasher on your own, who is not able to change the own concepts on reason of the weakness of power of the own spirit.

That's just nuts. Atheists have no religious beliefs.

Atheism can be a religion. The religious nature of atheism explains their hostility towards traditional religions which is that of one rival religion over another. The religious dogma of atheism is based on materialism, primitive instincts, atheism and the deification of man. They see no distinction between good and evil, no morality or any other kind of value, save pleasure.

 

[ding]

What you say here shows to me that there's indeed not a big distance between intentional ignorance and a criminal behavior. Buy a good book about developmental psychology and take a look what's written there for example about "magic age". You would be a child abuser on your own, if you would try to force children to make idiotic decisions about the own gender - what's completely unimportant for children - while you would the same time try to eliminate the normal human development. Or let me say it in a way so very child is able to understand it: Santa Claus (=Saint Nicholas, born much more than 1500 years ago in Myra) still exists - and presents will come. We (= all children under 120 years) will find ways - whether you try to steal the Christmas presents of all children or not.

You will find a way to brainwash the kids, no matter what? That's what we thought.

I don't know why some people of the english speaking world are not able to read my German. I will repeat for you what I said:

(1) Every human being was always religious since human beings are existing (except perhaps on reasons of brain defects)
(2) Atheism is a belief

And what I did not say until now: If the USA should need body guards for Santa, we have some ...

I'm agnostic, and no, people aren't born religious, it's a man-made concept.

If you follow the philosophy agnosticism then you know that atheism is belief. And it's completely clear that every human being is religious. The first human cultures started with religion. And never existed a culture without religion including atheism.Your problem is perhaps that you are a brainwashed brainwasher on your own.

Cultures being religious doesnt speak to the Truth of said Religions. Its poor evidence for....anything, except that Superstitions were always a part of human culture.

& here we've a full moon.

Do you know anything about Confucius? What his teachings were based upon?

 

[ding]

If you follow the philosophy agnosticism then you know that atheism is belief. And it's completely clear that every human being is religious. The first human cultures started with religion. And never existed a culture without religion including atheism.Your problem is perhaps that you are a brainwashed brainwasher on your own.

Cultures being religious doesnt speak to the Truth of said Religions.

What? Every culture without any exception was religious since more then 10000 years.

Its poor evidence for....anything, except that Superstitions were always a part of human culture.

& here we've a full moon.

I don't discuss with you now about the superstition that everyone has a superstition who says something what you don't like to hear and not to understand but to attack.

I dont understand what this broken english is trying to say, sorry.

Yea - super beings have often this problem. Idiots ask just simple, if they like to know something.

The point I was making wasnt addressed.

Cultures having Religion
..



Doesnt make the Religion true.


Its a meaningless fact, when it comes to the truth of each Religion's epistemology.

Are you under the illusion that different religions are diametrically opposed to each other? You do realize they are more alike than different, right?

 

[zaangalewa]

Even secularism is a Christian "dogma", doctrine, teaching.

Wow, this is stupid.

You demonstrate with your own stupidity I was right to say: Who knows not the Christian religion knows not the own history and understands not the world he lives in. Mark 12,17: Jesus said to them, “Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.” And they marveled at him.

But, like I always say, this is a luxury you magically thinking nutballs

"Bekloppter" ... you call me seriously "magisch denkender Bekloppter"? As far as I am able to understand "nuts" are testicles and "balls" are breasts - and a persons which carries both is an absurde person in your form to think. Hmm ... strange. Very very strange.

have that rational, evidence based thinkers do not: You can make ANYTHING fit your magical paradigm, and vice versa. That is because it is a steaming pile of nonsense that can mean anything to anyone.

Galileo did not have that luxury, when gathering empirical evidence.

Galileo Galilei was a Catholic and very good scientist who was respected very well and had earned a lot of money. He had every luxury. While the terrible 30 years war devastated Germany (This was a war which was also caused from Luther and the reformation a hundred years ago) Galileo started to say: "I am the only one who knows the truth, while all others are wrong!". And exactly this was totally wrong (Galileo Galilei accepted for example not the correct results of Johannes Kepler, which leaded later to the acceptance of the physics of Isaac Newton) and this was also damned dangerous - not for Galileo Galilei, who was a very good friend of the pope. Nevertheless some Clerics decided to stop him, because they perhaps lived in the fear wars like this could come to Italy too, if there starts a kind of new reformation. They accused him and he got house arrest (on wrong reasons by the way).

And perhaps you should also know the "dogma", doctrine, teaching: "God is word"="God is logos"="God is rationality" before you say the next time "Christians are enemies of rationality" - what's totally nonsense too. Ah yea - and not to forget: if I would call you a "Dumpfbacke"="dumbass" now, because you are so an unbelievable friendly man, then this would have to do with the "dogma", doctrine, teaching "nutball for nutball, dumbass for dumbass". But I don't do so: it's Christmas tide. The most wonderful season of the year.

 

[hobelim]

So what are YOU offering? If you think I should stop believing in God and Christianity, what are you going to replace it with? What am I going to get out of switching to your beliefs? Convince me. Sell me on it. Why should I be an atheist? What benefit will it add to my existence?

An excellent question.

It is easy for anyone to step up to the mike and complain about whats wrong with religion, their life, or the world, everyone has an opinion, but no one ever seems to have a clue about what to do to make things better much less convince anyone that theres is a better way..

I am not an atheist but I can offer you a way to keep the fundamentals of your beliefs intact, to understand what you already profess to believe in a way that conforms to and is confirmed by reality without contradicting well known and universally accepted scientific facts or adding, subtracting, or changing a single word of your scriptures.

No rejection of belief or suspension of disbelief required.

It would benefit your life as much as any persons life would benefit after being released from the darkness of a dungeon that they have been rotting in for decades....

All that you would need to provide is a little honesty and the will to go wherever the truth leads.

Could you handle that?

 

[zaangalewa]

Satan’s Ten Strategies Against You | Desiring God

Satan? Freakish. Your ideas should be ridiculed. Your stupid religious threats and voodoo should be regarded no better than those of any stupid **** on the corner with a sandwich board and a bullhorn. Satan... haha... oh man.

That is exactly what the Satanists say. And exactly the way they say it

The Satanists ridicule the idea of Satan and deny Satan exists? Damn you say bizarre things.

Bizarre? ... If you would really believe in Satan - would you believe in Satan? How? It's a kind of suicide to do so! Who denies the own life? Or another question: Believe Islamists in god by murdering people? ... Yes - that's bizarre. But in another way than you seem to think.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Even secularism is a Christian "dogma", doctrine, teaching.

Wow, this is stupid. But, like I always say, this is a luxury you magically thinking nutballs have that rational, evidence based thinkers do not: You can make ANYTHING fit your magical paradigm, and vice versa. That is because it is a steaming pile of nonsense that can mean anything to anyone.

Galileo did not have that luxury, when gathering empirical evidence.

Just a warning: I really doubt you want to run to Galileo to bolster your arguments, because I really doubt you know any real facts about Galileo.

That being said, if this is really the path you want to take, by all means, do continue drawing your connection between Galileo and the current topic. I'll just sit over here, watching in morbid fascination while you step on your johnson yet again.

You can equivocate your apologist garbage any way you like. Those secular ideas took root in spite of religion. Your goofy arguments by which every raindrop and historical event should be credited to your magical, bronze age fantasy don't really sway rational people.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Satan’s Ten Strategies Against You | Desiring God

Satan? Freakish. Your ideas should be ridiculed. Your stupid religious threats and voodoo should be regarded no better than those of any stupid **** on the corner with a sandwich board and a bullhorn. Satan... haha... oh man.

That is exactly what the Satanists say. And exactly the way they say it

The Satanists ridicule the idea of Satan and deny Satan exists? Damn you say bizarre things.

Bizarre? ... If you would really believe in Satan - would you believe in Satan? How? It's a kind of suicide to do so! Who denies the own life? Or another question: Believe Islamists in god by murdering people? ... Yes - that's bizarre. But in another way than you seem to think.

Yes, the behavior of suicidal, murderous Islamists is bizarre. But easily understood, once you understand they are literally doing exactly what their nasty little religious text describes. And if it were not for the reformation of your bronze age religion by secular ideas, many of you Christians would still be doing similar things today.

You embarrass yourself to have to invent characterizations of me in lieu of having any rationale or evidence to counter my points. Truly simple minded behavior.

 

[ding]

Even secularism is a Christian "dogma", doctrine, teaching.

Wow, this is stupid. But, like I always say, this is a luxury you magically thinking nutballs have that rational, evidence based thinkers do not: You can make ANYTHING fit your magical paradigm, and vice versa. That is because it is a steaming pile of nonsense that can mean anything to anyone.

Galileo did not have that luxury, when gathering empirical evidence.

Just a warning: I really doubt you want to run to Galileo to bolster your arguments, because I really doubt you know any real facts about Galileo.

That being said, if this is really the path you want to take, by all means, do continue drawing your connection between Galileo and the current topic. I'll just sit over here, watching in morbid fascination while you step on your johnson yet again.

You can equivocate your apologist garbage any way you like. Those secular ideas took root in spite of religion. Your goofy arguments by which every raindrop and historical event should be credited to your magical, bronze age fantasy don't really sway rational people.

The Father of Modern Genetics was a priest.

Religion and science are wholly compatible.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

"Anyway, here's my question: What do you have to offer to replace my religious beliefs?"

Which ones? I have nothing to offer to replace your egotistical fantasies of being very very special and of living forever. You would simply have to abandon those ideas.

As far as morality, I have a reason-based morality to offer.

As far as coping with stress, fear, and other negative emotions: I can introduce you to all manner of techniques that perform the same functions on mental and physical health as do imaginary conversations with imaginary gods (praying).

As far as replacing your delusional feelings of moral and intellectual superiorityyou derive from the fantasy of believing you act and dictate knowledge from "divine authority"... Sorry, I have nothing to replace that. I could point you to a good psychiatrist....?

 

[Cecilie1200]

I have a question for the evangelical atheists. And spare me your protestations of "I'm not evangelizing anything; I'm not trying to convince anyone to believe anything". If you feel the need to explain loudly to everyone how religion is a fairy tale and everyone who believes in it is a superstitious rube any and every time religion is mentioned even in passing; if you have ever used the phrase "sky fairy"; if you spend time actually starting conversations about how religion is "brainwashing" or teaching one's children about religion is "child abuse" . . . then you're an evangelical atheist, and you might as well own it.

Anyway, here's my question: What do you have to offer to replace my religious beliefs?

'Cause I have to tell you that right now, your sales technique is sadly lacking. You must have noticed that, if anything, people tend to be MORE convinced of their religious beliefs after talking to you, rather than less. Religions of all stripes have enjoyed vastly more success at convincing and recruiting people throughout all of human history than atheism ever has. This is because religion offers people something desirable in exchange for their adherence. You can argue all day about whether or not that something is really of value, but obviously, people DO value it, or they wouldn't continue to believe.

So what are YOU offering? If you think I should stop believing in God and Christianity, what are you going to replace it with? What am I going to get out of switching to your beliefs? Convince me. Sell me on it. Why should I be an atheist? What benefit will it add to my existence?

Still waiting on anyone to take up answering this question. Good thing I didn't really expect anyone to have the cojones to do it, and didn't hold my breath.

I think they are called militant atheists.

Militant atheism - Conservapedia

Some people may call them that. I continue to call them evangelical atheists, because preaching their beliefs is exactly what they're doing, same as evangelical Christians do.

 

[koshergrl]

All religion must ******* die!!!

I want to crush the Catholic Church like a toad!
Adolf Hitler

there were and are a lot of people like hitler--they just don't have the opportunity to get the same power
Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Jim Jones, David Koresh, etc

I know nothing about the psychological structure of this people. I would call them insane. The problem with Hitler is that he was normal. Everyone could be like Hitler. If you like to know something about Adolf Hitler then read what Joachim Fest was able to say about him. You will not find a demon but a very complex situation of world history and lots of wrong answers of lots of people. And Hannah Arendt made for sure a very great discovery when she spoke about the banality of the evil. It's a shock how banal, how trivial, the evil is able to be.

Evil is simply the refusal to recognize humanity as something special.

Evil is the absence of good.

The absence of God.
Humanity is made in God's image, and as such is special. The rejection of that is evil.

 

[koshergrl]

I have a question for the evangelical atheists. And spare me your protestations of "I'm not evangelizing anything; I'm not trying to convince anyone to believe anything". If you feel the need to explain loudly to everyone how religion is a fairy tale and everyone who believes in it is a superstitious rube any and every time religion is mentioned even in passing; if you have ever used the phrase "sky fairy"; if you spend time actually starting conversations about how religion is "brainwashing" or teaching one's children about religion is "child abuse" . . . then you're an evangelical atheist, and you might as well own it.

Anyway, here's my question: What do you have to offer to replace my religious beliefs?

'Cause I have to tell you that right now, your sales technique is sadly lacking. You must have noticed that, if anything, people tend to be MORE convinced of their religious beliefs after talking to you, rather than less. Religions of all stripes have enjoyed vastly more success at convincing and recruiting people throughout all of human history than atheism ever has. This is because religion offers people something desirable in exchange for their adherence. You can argue all day about whether or not that something is really of value, but obviously, people DO value it, or they wouldn't continue to believe.

So what are YOU offering? If you think I should stop believing in God and Christianity, what are you going to replace it with? What am I going to get out of switching to your beliefs? Convince me. Sell me on it. Why should I be an atheist? What benefit will it add to my existence?

Still waiting on anyone to take up answering this question. Good thing I didn't really expect anyone to have the cojones to do it, and didn't hold my breath.

I think they are called militant atheists.

Militant atheism - Conservapedia

Some people may call them that. I continue to call them evangelical atheists, because preaching their beliefs is exactly what they're doing, same as evangelical Christians do.

Evangelical Christians witness in order to save people and bring them joy.
Evangelical Atheists lie in order to lead people away from salvation and joy.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Even secularism is a Christian "dogma", doctrine, teaching.

Wow, this is stupid. But, like I always say, this is a luxury you magically thinking nutballs have that rational, evidence based thinkers do not: You can make ANYTHING fit your magical paradigm, and vice versa. That is because it is a steaming pile of nonsense that can mean anything to anyone.

Galileo did not have that luxury, when gathering empirical evidence.

Just a warning: I really doubt you want to run to Galileo to bolster your arguments, because I really doubt you know any real facts about Galileo.

That being said, if this is really the path you want to take, by all means, do continue drawing your connection between Galileo and the current topic. I'll just sit over here, watching in morbid fascination while you step on your johnson yet again.

You can equivocate your apologist garbage any way you like. Those secular ideas took root in spite of religion. Your goofy arguments by which every raindrop and historical event should be credited to your magical, bronze age fantasy don't really sway rational people.

And I'm yawning.

"Those secular ideas" . . . with no indication or explanation of which ideas you're referring to.

"Your goofy arguments" with a list of things I've never said, or even hinted at.

You flatter yourself to believe that I or anyone else here has ever wanted or been interested in your opinions OR your admiration, and you delude yourself if you think throwing out random insults is going to hide the fact that you're running away from any substantial discussion or is going to somehow make me go, "Oh, noes, the contemptible doofus I'm laughing at does not think I am the smartz. I must immediately be ashamed of my beliefs because he lamely mocked them!"

I realize that the only possible way you can argue against my beliefs is if you are arguing with yourself against a bunch of bullshit that has nothing to do with my actual beliefs. I'm just wondering how long it's going to take YOU to admit what everyone else can see.

Only question now is whether you're going to sack up in your next post, or keep retreating and pretending you're not.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Satan’s Ten Strategies Against You | Desiring God

Satan? Freakish. Your ideas should be ridiculed. Your stupid religious threats and voodoo should be regarded no better than those of any stupid **** on the corner with a sandwich board and a bullhorn. Satan... haha... oh man.

That is exactly what the Satanists say. And exactly the way they say it

The Satanists ridicule the idea of Satan and deny Satan exists? Damn you say bizarre things.

Bizarre? ... If you would really believe in Satan - would you believe in Satan? How? It's a kind of suicide to do so! Who denies the own life? Or another question: Believe Islamists in god by murdering people? ... Yes - that's bizarre. But in another way than you seem to think.

Yes, the behavior of suicidal, murderous Islamists is bizarre. But easily understood, once you understand they are literally doing exactly what their nasty little religious text describes. And if it were not for the reformation of your bronze age religion by secular ideas, many of you Christians would still be doing similar things today.

You embarrass yourself to have to invent characterizations of me in lieu of having any rationale or evidence to counter my points. Truly simple minded behavior.

And now I'm laughing at the probably-unintended irony and hypocrisy of Mr. "Sky Fairy Magic Raindrops" accusing someone ELSE of inventing characterizations because of a lack of rationale or evidence. You're right about this being simpleminded behavior; so is accusing people of doing something of which you're the worst perpetrator.

 

[koshergrl]

Even secularism is a Christian "dogma", doctrine, teaching.

Wow, this is stupid. But, like I always say, this is a luxury you magically thinking nutballs have that rational, evidence based thinkers do not: You can make ANYTHING fit your magical paradigm, and vice versa. That is because it is a steaming pile of nonsense that can mean anything to anyone.

Galileo did not have that luxury, when gathering empirical evidence.

Just a warning: I really doubt you want to run to Galileo to bolster your arguments, because I really doubt you know any real facts about Galileo.

That being said, if this is really the path you want to take, by all means, do continue drawing your connection between Galileo and the current topic. I'll just sit over here, watching in morbid fascination while you step on your johnson yet again.

You can equivocate your apologist garbage any way you like. Those secular ideas took root in spite of religion. Your goofy arguments by which every raindrop and historical event should be credited to your magical, bronze age fantasy don't really sway rational people.

And I'm yawning.

"Those secular ideas" . . . with no indication or explanation of which ideas you're referring to.

"Your goofy arguments" with a list of things I've never said, or even hinted at.

You flatter yourself to believe that I or anyone else here has ever wanted or been interested in your opinions OR your admiration, and you delude yourself if you think throwing out random insults is going to hide the fact that you're running away from any substantial discussion or is going to somehow make me go, "Oh, noes, the contemptible doofus I'm laughing at does not think I am the smartz. I must immediately be ashamed of my beliefs because he lamely mocked them!"

I realize that the only possible way you can argue against my beliefs is if you are arguing with yourself against a bunch of bullshit that has nothing to do with my actual beliefs. I'm just wondering how long it's going to take YOU to admit what everyone else can see.

Only question now is whether you're going to sack up in your next post, or keep retreating and pretending you're not.

Yeah I think this is the same fool who was asserting that his goofball theories are sufficient in and of themselves to prove an argument. I think he's the one who said there had been a fundamental change in Christianity and Christians in the past 500 years..but he failed to ever cite an example of the change or connect it to anything.

I think he's mentally ill. The elevator doesn't go all the way to the top. It stops about a quarter of the way between the basement and the first level and there it sits.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Even secularism is a Christian "dogma", doctrine, teaching.

Wow, this is stupid. But, like I always say, this is a luxury you magically thinking nutballs have that rational, evidence based thinkers do not: You can make ANYTHING fit your magical paradigm, and vice versa. That is because it is a steaming pile of nonsense that can mean anything to anyone.

Galileo did not have that luxury, when gathering empirical evidence.

Just a warning: I really doubt you want to run to Galileo to bolster your arguments, because I really doubt you know any real facts about Galileo.

That being said, if this is really the path you want to take, by all means, do continue drawing your connection between Galileo and the current topic. I'll just sit over here, watching in morbid fascination while you step on your johnson yet again.

You can equivocate your apologist garbage any way you like. Those secular ideas took root in spite of religion. Your goofy arguments by which every raindrop and historical event should be credited to your magical, bronze age fantasy don't really sway rational people.

The Father of Modern Genetics was a priest.

Religion and science are wholly compatible.

Of course they are. What ISN'T compatible, though, is the feral desire to do whatever you want, whenever you want, without guilt or shame or concern for others and any sort of rational, civilized thought. Which means that they have to find some sort of excuse to justify themselves, and shouting "Science!" every two minutes is the excuse of choice.