Relative costs

[Coyote]

No charge, to you, today.

How much was stolen from you, in the form of taxes and inflated costs, over the course of your working life (making a big leap of faith here, I know) to obtain all that "free" medical care?

Some folks don’t consider it to be theft but rather an investment in medical care and other benefits that civilized nations offer it’s citizens. You pay incrementally or you pay in one whopping sum....if you are lucky enough to have it when you need it.

 

[Coyote]

I have been in ill health for nearly two years now. The main reason I waste so much time on here. Anyway, before Christmas I had a below knee leg amputation and have been recovering at home since then.

I was in hospital for a week.. The operation was on day 1 and I had about 6 days recovering. There was no charge for that. They send a psychiatrist round to see that you are in good spirits as well. NO Charge. She was a real charmer and took me to the shop to buy an ice cream. I wanted a Solero but they only had Feasts so I had one of them. The Psych bought it for me. No charge.

A day after my Op the Occy Health came round and measured me up. A day later they delivered my customised wheelchair. No charge.

For the next few days the Physios came round every day and I practised using the chair,getting in and out, taking bits off and putting them back.

After a week my wife came and took me home. It was great to be back. The day after that the support services turned up with a ramp so that I could get out of the front door. They also adjusted the TV height for me so that I could watch it in comfort. No charge.

After a month or so recuperating and seeing my wound heal I got my first physio appointment. Ive been going 2 or 3 times a week since then. No charge.

Two weeks ago I was told that my swelling had gone down and I could be measured up for a prosthetic. No Charge.

On Tuesday I got my new leg and started the process of getting to walk again. Ive been booked in for physio until I dont need it any more. Its hard work with a Physio who thinks Prince was over rated.

Throughout this I have been on a cocktail of drugs . No charge.

I have also been given custom insoles to put in my shoes to ensure I am walking on the level. They also gave me a pair of shoes with "special features" to help me be comfortable as I learn to walk again. No charge.

In a month or so I hope to be walking around and a few months after that I expect to be back in work.

I think that I have been well looked after throughout all of this and I only have one real complaint.

They have also sent me a leaflet explaining how I can claim my new car using my motability allowance. Its a government scheme. I cant drive my car any more without some adjustments so I might as well have a new one. No charge.

I am guessing that all of this would have cost me a tidy some in the US ?

That sucks for all the people who had to pay for your poor life choices.

All insurance policies work like that. You do understand that dont you ?

Yes, I do, and it's people like you who make the rest of us pay more because you can't run your own life responsibly.

I’m sure we are paying for you somewhere down the line.

 

[Coyote]

The NHS is in essence a giant insurance scheme like the ones that pay for your healthcare in the US.

You appear to have misspelled “Ponzi”. In any event, no, a massive government-run Ponzi scheme is not how health care is funded here in the U.S.

In any event, as I said before, I think the results speak for themselves.

Due to diabetic complications, you've had to have part of your leg amputated. Your boasting of all the “free” stuff that your government is giving you reminds me, tangentially, of the cliché about government breaking one's leg, and one is grateful when government provides a crutch.

It used to be common, here in the U.S., for diabetics in their later years, to have parts of their legs ampliated. Type 2 runs very strongly in my father's side of my family, and I know that I had at least one uncle on that side who lost part of his leg that way.

It hasn't been common here, for a long time. Here in the U.S., the resources are easily available to manage diabetes well enough that our generation really has no good excuse to allow the condition to get that far out of control.

You're boasting that your government-run Ponzi scheme is so great because of all the “free” benefits that it is giving you to help make up for the loss of your leg.

The point is that I, here in the U.S., being the same age as you, and with the same underlying condition, have no need for such benefits, as my legs are both fine (other than the lingering effects of having broken one of them almost two years ago). Between what health car has been available to me, and what responsibility I have taken for my own care, I obviously have experienced a far better outcome than you have. (this assumes, of course, that one considers remaining healthy and able, and continuing to be a productive worker, making an honest living for myself and my family, and contributing to society; is a better outcome than being crippled and idle, and being dependent on government to take care of you.) I think it is obvious that whatever health care I have been receiving is doing me much more good than your health care has been doing for you.

How old is this picture of you, that you've been using as an avatar?

View attachment 506446​

You've been using it for a very long time, much longer than the nearly two years that you say you've been in bad health. I think it is obvious from that picture, that you've been in bad health, and very poorly cared for, for at least as far back as whenever that picture was taken. The pictures of me in this thread are recent. The one of me in the Stetson is from only a few months back, and the one of me in partial construction-worker livery (in just a few hours, I'll be putting on the whole outfit, and going to work) was taken just yesterday.

Amputations related to diabetes are still quite common in this country Bob. I see it all the time.

 

[Coyote]

The NHS is in essence a giant insurance scheme like the ones that pay for your healthcare in the US.

You appear to have misspelled “Ponzi”. In any event, no, a massive government-run Ponzi scheme is not how health care is funded here in the U.S.

In any event, as I said before, I think the results speak for themselves.

Due to diabetic complications, you've had to have part of your leg amputated. Your boasting of all the “free” stuff that your government is giving you reminds me, tangentially, of the cliché about government breaking one's leg, and one is grateful when government provides a crutch.

It used to be common, here in the U.S., for diabetics in their later years, to have parts of their legs ampliated. Type 2 runs very strongly in my father's side of my family, and I know that I had at least one uncle on that side who lost part of his leg that way.

It hasn't been common here, for a long time. Here in the U.S., the resources are easily available to manage diabetes well enough that our generation really has no good excuse to allow the condition to get that far out of control.

You're boasting that your government-run Ponzi scheme is so great because of all the “free” benefits that it is giving you to help make up for the loss of your leg.

The point is that I, here in the U.S., being the same age as you, and with the same underlying condition, have no need for such benefits, as my legs are both fine (other than the lingering effects of having broken one of them almost two years ago). Between what health car has been available to me, and what responsibility I have taken for my own care, I obviously have experienced a far better outcome than you have. (this assumes, of course, that one considers remaining healthy and able, and continuing to be a productive worker, making an honest living for myself and my family, and contributing to society; is a better outcome than being crippled and idle, and being dependent on government to take care of you.) I think it is obvious that whatever health care I have been receiving is doing me much more good than your health care has been doing for you.

How old is this picture of you, that you've been using as an avatar?

View attachment 506446​

You've been using it for a very long time, much longer than the nearly two years that you say you've been in bad health. I think it is obvious from that picture, that you've been in bad health, and very poorly cared for, for at least as far back as whenever that picture was taken. The pictures of me in this thread are recent. The one of me in the Stetson is from only a few months back, and the one of me in partial construction-worker livery (in just a few hours, I'll be putting on the whole outfit, and going to work) was taken just yesterday.

“There but for fortune, may go you or I” Bobby.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

“There but for fortune, may go you or I” Bobby.

Personal responsibility has a lot more to do with it, than random chance.

That's just a cliché used by those who lack responsibility, as an excuse.

 

[Coyote]

“There but for fortune, may go you or I” Bobby.

Personal responsibility has a lot more to do with it, than random chance.

That's just a cliché used by those who lack responsibility, as an excuse.

Oh?

According to some here, diabetes is a consequence of “bad life choices”. Sounds like you must have made irresponsible choices at some point.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

According to some here, diabetes is a consequence of “bad life choices”.

 

[westwall]

Most Americans would have a similar experience to yours, but the poor and uninsured would not.

The poor won't have a single bill. What planet do you live on.

 

[Oddball]

Some folks don’t consider it to be theft but rather an investment in medical care and other benefits that civilized nations offer it’s citizens. You pay incrementally or you pay in one whopping sum....if you are lucky enough to have it when you need it.

What other people "consider" it as is irrelevant....In every other context, money taken from one under the threat of force is theft.

Telling me I'll pay one way or the other is just the cynical cheap excuse of the protection racketeer.

 

[gipper]

The poor won't have a single bill. What planet do you live on.

Yeah and no one files for bankruptcy due to HC costs in America. Right?

 

[WinterBorn]

You "barely noticed" because you never ever had a paycheck with full pay against which to compare, or you're a lifetime parasite.

Have you had a paycheck with full pay? With no deductions at all?

 

[westwall]

Yeah and no one files for bankruptcy due to HC costs in America. Right?

You can't get blood from a turnip. Hospitals pass those costs on to the insurance companies and the middle class.

 

[WinterBorn]

The poor won't have a single bill. What planet do you live on.

And they will never be out from under that debt either.

 

[WinterBorn]

You can't get blood from a turnip. Hospitals pass those costs on to the insurance companies and the middle class.

And healthcare is the #1 reason for declaring bankruptcy in the US.

 

[gipper]

You can't get blood from a turnip. Hospitals pass those costs on to the insurance companies and the middle class.

Yeah no one files for bankruptcy in America due to HC costs.

 

[westwall]

And they will never be out from under that debt either.

What debt? They pay no taxes. They only get cash from the government. They produce nothing of value, so are exempt from taxes.

 

[westwall]

Yeah no one files for bankruptcy in America due to HC costs.

I never claimed that. I said the POOR have no debt.

 

[WinterBorn]

What debt? They pay no taxes. They only get cash from the government. They produce nothing of value, so are exempt from taxes.

Not all poor people spend their entire lives on welfare.

But that debt will prevent any credit or assets until it is paid.

 

[westwall]

And healthcare is the #1 reason for declaring bankruptcy in the US.

Indeed it is. You can thank tort lawyers for driving up the costs along with the health insurance companies.

But you seem to be claiming that people are kicked out of their homes.

They aren't. Their credit is wrecked for 7 years.

Ok. So what?

 

[westwall]

Not all poor people spend their entire lives on welfare.

But that debt will prevent any credit or assets until it is paid.

The number of poor who make it to the middle class is tiny. And, no it won't. They declare bankruptcy and 7 years later they are fine.