Red Letter Christianity divergence....Chuckt

[PostmodernProph]

The recent "Purpose Driven Church" makes this case in spades.

???...is this an admission you didn't read the book?.....
did you think there were six?.....fellowship, discipleship, worship, evangelism, service and amusement?.....

I most certainly did.

then why did you think amusement was listed as a purpose, in spades no less......

 

[PostmodernProph]

They are arguing that they have to overcome consumer resistance to grow the church.
They believe they grow the church whereas the contrast in the book of Acts is you preach the gospel and God added to the church.

in the book of Acts we begin with the story of the Pentecost......the apostles spoke and people heard in their own native tongue....the gospel was communicated.....

why is communicating with a post modern world "amusement"......why isn't it just communicating the gospel?......

PostmodernProphet,

I was driving home in my car. I looked at the clock and it was drive time so I put on the Christian teaching channel and the host started singing the Gilligan Island theme song. This is a true story. So do you know what I did? I turned the radio off.

They are nursing a weakness in people and the weakness is not willing to listen.
With all this baloney going on, I would marvel if anyone could hear the gospel at all among all the noise put out.

Chuck

not sure what that has to do with the emerging church, unless it was an emerging church teaching channel.....might have been interesting to see what type of lesson he pulled from that......perhaps a parable based on Gilligan's Island would be more understandable to someone born in the 60s than a parable about shepherds would be to someone living in Brooklyn who has never seen a sheep.....

what would you have thought about this.....our youth pastor wore a Santa Claus mask and had a children's sermon that taught them whatever present they thought might show up in their stocking was of no value compared to the gift that Jesus gives them......do you think the kids heard the gospel?......

 

[PostmodernProph]

When you go down this road, church is no longer for believers but it is for unbelievers.

sorry, Chuck, but I have to say....Hallelujah!......I don't recall the Bible charging us to go into all the world and make believers comfortable.....

 

[PostmodernProph]

How do you make doctrine relevant to non-Christians? You don't.

agreed....doctrine has no place in evangelism.....it has no place in worship, prayer, service either......its something to discuss in discipleship.....and then only by mature believers.....

would you insist that before a new believer made profession of his faith he must be able to tell you the difference between transubstantiation and symbolism?........define predestination?......make a choice between infant and adult baptism?......

(if the answer is yes, it may give you insight into why your church decided to take the name of your denomination out of their name)..........

 

[Chuckt]

The emerging / emergent church movement falls into line with basic post-modernist thinking—it is about experience over reason, subjectivity over objectivity, spirituality over religion, images over words, outward over inward, feelings over truth. These are reactions to modernism and are thought to be necessary in order to actively engage contemporary culture. This movement is still fairly new, though, so there is not yet a standard method of "doing" church amongst the groups choosing to take a post-modern mindset. In fact, the emerging church rejects any standard methodology for doing anything. Therefore, there is a huge range of how far groups take a post-modernist approach to Christianity. Some groups go only a little way in order to impact their community for Christ, and remain biblically sound. Most groups, however, embrace post-modernist thinking, which eventually leads to a very liberal, loose translation of the Bible. This, in turn, lends to liberal doctrine and theology.

For example, because experience is valued more highly than reason, truth becomes relative. Relativism opens up all kinds of problems, as it destroys the standard that the Bible contains absolute truth, negating the belief that biblical truth can be absolute. If the Bible is not our source for absolute truth, and personal experience is allowed to define and interpret what truth actually is, a saving faith in Jesus Christ is rendered meaningless.

What is the emerging / emergent church movement?

 

[PostmodernProph]

it is about experience over reason
subjectivity over objectivity
spirituality over religion
images over words
outward over inward
feelings over truth

dang, you had me nodding my head in agreement until that last one....feelings are not the antithesis of "truth".....feelings may be true, logic may be false....

These are reactions to modernism

yes....

and are thought to be necessary in order to actively engage contemporary culture

yes, because contemporary culture itself is postmodern....

This movement is still fairly new, though, so there is not yet a standard method of "doing" church amongst the groups choosing to take a post-modern mindset

yes....

In fact, the emerging church rejects any standard methodology for doing anything.

true, so long as "standard" equates to "modernist".....

Therefore, there is a huge range of how far groups take a post-modernist approach to Christianity. Some groups go only a little way in order to impact their community for Christ, and remain biblically sound.

agreed....

Most groups, however, embrace post-modernist thinking, which eventually leads to a very liberal, loose translation of the Bible. This, in turn, lends to liberal doctrine and theology.

no....postmodern thinking does NOT eventually lead to liberalism.....consider this.....postmodernism is new......we've had liberalism for decades.....more modernists are liberals than postmodernists.....

For example, because experience is valued more highly than reason, truth becomes relative.

lol....no....the very term "rationalize" describes the method of masking the truth and making it relative.....being false is not a consequence of experiencing things......being false is a consequence of being false.....

what the experiencing/rationalizing dichotomy is describing is the preference postmoderns have for "doing" instead of "talking about doing"......

 

[PostmodernProph]

from your link above....
Jesus' letter to the church of Pergamum, in which the Church is warned against tolerating those who teach false doctrine.


no kidding...do you realize there are churches out there that preach against infant baptism and against women holding office in church!......