Real Time with Bill Maher: Middle Class Economics

[LordBrownTrout]

I started laughing when maher and economics were mentioned together.

 

[Stephanie]

I started laughing when maher and economics were mentioned together.

I did too. good gawd people really take him and his spew serious?
scary

 

[iamwhatiseem]

I have used this several times over the years to illustrate wages vs. inflation in America.
In 1977, my parents bought a 3 bdrm home. and happen to also bought a 1977 Chevy Malibu. My Father earned a little over $10 an hour in a factory.
Price of the home -- $26,000
Price of the 1977 Malibu - $4,500
His wages - $400 a week.

In 2015, that same house where I live will cost you about $110,000
A new 2015 Malibu is about $22,000.
Earnings for a factory worker in this area is about $12 an hour.

Get it?

Yes We get it you elected democrats,.you did it to yourselve

Uh...no.
I have voted primarily Republican for almost 30 years.
What in God's name does my post contain that makes you think I am a Democrat??

 

[iamwhatiseem]

I have used this several times over the years to illustrate wages vs. inflation in America.
In 1977, my parents bought a 3 bdrm home. and happen to also bought a 1977 Chevy Malibu. My Father earned a little over $10 an hour in a factory.
Price of the home -- $26,000
Price of the 1977 Malibu - $4,500
His wages - $400 a week.

In 2015, that same house where I live will cost you about $110,000
A new 2015 Malibu is about $22,000.
Earnings for a factory worker in this area is about $12 an hour.

Get it?

The question is: Why?

It seems to me that housing and cars were under priced back then, and workers were overpaid.

Uh...what?
So you missed the whole mortgage bubble?
You missed the whole manufacturing jobs were outsourced or replaced by robots thing?
Did you just move here from Europe?

 

[Wyatt earp]

I have used this several times over the years to illustrate wages vs. inflation in America.
In 1977, my parents bought a 3 bdrm home. and happen to also bought a 1977 Chevy Malibu. My Father earned a little over $10 an hour in a factory.
Price of the home -- $26,000
Price of the 1977 Malibu - $4,500
His wages - $400 a week.

In 2015, that same house where I live will cost you about $110,000
A new 2015 Malibu is about $22,000.
Earnings for a factory worker in this area is about $12 an hour.

Get it?

Yes We get it you elected democrats,.you did it to yourselve

Uh...no.
I have voted primarily Republican for almost 30 years.
What in God's name does my post contain that makes you think I am a Democrat??

I was just curious, you know you can move right? I left the chicago area 10 years ago for a red state and freedom

 

[SwimExpert]

I have used this several times over the years to illustrate wages vs. inflation in America.
In 1977, my parents bought a 3 bdrm home. and happen to also bought a 1977 Chevy Malibu. My Father earned a little over $10 an hour in a factory.
Price of the home -- $26,000
Price of the 1977 Malibu - $4,500
His wages - $400 a week.

In 2015, that same house where I live will cost you about $110,000
A new 2015 Malibu is about $22,000.
Earnings for a factory worker in this area is about $12 an hour.

Get it?

The question is: Why?

It seems to me that housing and cars were under priced back then, and workers were overpaid.

Uh...what?
So you missed the whole mortgage bubble?
You missed the whole manufacturing jobs were outsourced or replaced by robots thing?
Did you just move here from Europe?

What does the housing bubble have to do with anything? And what does outsourcing have to do with anything? Has no bearing whatsoever on prices in 1977.

 

[Sonny Clark]

I don't know therefore I wanted to ask participants of the forum.

Put America back to work, producing what America uses and consumes. Severely penalize the off-shore out-sourcing of jobs, severely penalize importing labor, and severely penalize anyone hiring or assisting an illegal immigrant. Re-write our unfair, unjust, and one sided foreign trade agreements and policies, so that they become fair, equal, and balance foreign trade agreements and policies. End our dependency on cheap foreign imports. Stop sacrificing our economic well-being in favor of strengthening foreign economies. Put the "Made In U.S.A." label back on store shelves.

Elect pro-America representatives to serve in government. Stop electing and re-electing professional politicians to run this country. Rewind the clock to the 50's and 60's when our plants and factories provided living wage jobs that covered all education and skill levels.

The above will create a strong Middle Class, and provide self-supporting opportunities across the board. As it stands now, we're consumers and not producers. This has created a poor and dependent society, living off of government assistance programs and unemployment checks. The above steps will reverse that trend.

Your a fucking idiot, trade wars never work and you want to pay $5,000 for a t v. or computer?

I have never ever said anything about trade wars, never. And, I certainly don't want to pay $5,000 for a TV. Also, I'm no idiot, thank you. Childish and silly name calling and personal attacks do absolutely nothing to enhance conversation, nor do they help prove a point. Please try to be civil and appear to be adult. Thank you.

Alright, I will give you respect and Applogize but your wrong

Wrong how ?? In what way am I wrong? Please explain. Thanks.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

I have used this several times over the years to illustrate wages vs. inflation in America.
In 1977, my parents bought a 3 bdrm home. and happen to also bought a 1977 Chevy Malibu. My Father earned a little over $10 an hour in a factory.
Price of the home -- $26,000
Price of the 1977 Malibu - $4,500
His wages - $400 a week.

In 2015, that same house where I live will cost you about $110,000
A new 2015 Malibu is about $22,000.
Earnings for a factory worker in this area is about $12 an hour.

Get it?

The question is: Why?

It seems to me that housing and cars were under priced back then, and workers were overpaid.

Uh...what?
So you missed the whole mortgage bubble?
You missed the whole manufacturing jobs were outsourced or replaced by robots thing?
Did you just move here from Europe?

What does the housing bubble have to do with anything? And what does outsourcing have to do with anything? Has no bearing whatsoever on prices in 1977.

What?
You said "seems to me houses were under priced back then"...well that was before the housing bubble. Kind of obvious point I was making about today's pricing in comparison to pre-housing bubble pricing. Kinda obvious...
You also mentioned cars prices.
Like many large purchase items, prices depend on the availability of credit.
In the 80's and 90's credit availability ran wild, and without regard, for the damage that debt-as-income spending of the two decades was doing.

 

[SwimExpert]

You said "seems to me houses were under priced back then"...well that was before the housing bubble.

More than 20 years before the housing bubble. Are you seriously trying to say that the housing bubble of the early 21st century caused house prices to rise back in 1977?

Kind of obvious point I was making about today's pricing in comparison to pre-housing bubble pricing. Kinda obvious...

Maybe I was giving you too much credit. I didn't think it necessary to explore the possibilities line up in the "bat shit crazy and stupid" category.

You also mentioned cars prices.
Like many large purchase items, prices depend on the availability of credit.

No, price depends on the willingness to buy.

In the 80's and 90's credit availability ran wild, and without regard, for the damage that debt-as-income spending of the two decades was doing.

 

[Darkwind]

All of these woes you spout can be tied to one single villain.

Government.

I take it your solution is more government?

Yes, the government is responsible. Yes, the government has sold us out. I have no idea as to why you think my solution would be more government. The solution is NOT more government. I have detailed my solution many times on this forum, and did so again this morning on another thread. I give my solution almost every single day on this forum.
What gave you the idea that my solution would be more government? Just curious.

Your detailed solutions have government involvement.

You want to fix the middle class? Get government out of the lives of all Americans.

It's impossible to get government out of our lives. We are under government rule and authority. It's been like that since 1776. And, it's not going to change anytime soon. We're at their mercy.

So because government sets standards on weights and measures that means they get to control what we eat and what health insurance we have? Im not following you here.

Where did you get all of that? I have never mentioned any of that. Nor did I ever imply that. The government sets the rules. We live by government rules. We do not set our own rules. We do what the government says to do. The government runs this country, we don't.

Wow...

 

[Sonny Clark]

Yes, the government is responsible. Yes, the government has sold us out. I have no idea as to why you think my solution would be more government. The solution is NOT more government. I have detailed my solution many times on this forum, and did so again this morning on another thread. I give my solution almost every single day on this forum.
What gave you the idea that my solution would be more government? Just curious.

Your detailed solutions have government involvement.

You want to fix the middle class? Get government out of the lives of all Americans.

It's impossible to get government out of our lives. We are under government rule and authority. It's been like that since 1776. And, it's not going to change anytime soon. We're at their mercy.

So because government sets standards on weights and measures that means they get to control what we eat and what health insurance we have? Im not following you here.

Where did you get all of that? I have never mentioned any of that. Nor did I ever imply that. The government sets the rules. We live by government rules. We do not set our own rules. We do what the government says to do. The government runs this country, we don't.

Wow...

WOW ???? Meaning ??? Please explain. Thanks.

 

[Darkwind]

The middle class has been pummeled for decades? You actually buy that crap? The middle class has been pummeled for the last 6 years. Thanks to Democrats' stupid policies. See my thread on Obamanomics.

The Middle Class has been under pressure since the 60's. The extent of the damage wasn't fully realized until 2008. The foundation to our declining Middle Class started crumbling in the 60's, and steadily progressed to the point we're at today. It was in the 60's when we started closing our plants and factories, thus taking away self-supporting opportunities that covered all education and skill levels. We started by closing the steel factories, then we lost the electronics industry ( when was the last America made TV produced? ), then those were soon followed by the textile mills, furniture and appliances, tools, farm equipment, automotive parts, toys, housewares, etc. etc.

Back in the 50's and early 60's, the men went to work and the women stayed home and raised the kids. One income was enough to live the good life. The Middle Class was doing great. Then, as plants and factories closed, the women entered the work force, and their numbers have been growing every since. And, now, two incomes aren't enough to support families in many cases. Steadily, over time, government assistance programs became a necessity in order to supply families with basic needs and necessities.

Once we started closing our plants and factories, taking away the self-supporting opportunities that covered all education and skill levels, the Middle Class was basically doomed. The proof to that statement makes daily headlines. We have 50% of our children living at or below the poverty line. We have 48 million citizens receiving food stamps. We have a growing homeless population. We have shameful unemployment, and employment consist of part-time jobs, temporary jobs, low paying jobs, and jobs with reduced company paid benefits. We have created a poor and dependent society. And, as I have stated, the foundation was laid back in the 60's with the closings of our plants and factories that supported the Middle Class.

Over the past 50 plus years, we've sacrificed our economic well-being in favor of strengthening foreign economies. And, the Middle Class has paid the highest price. Our socioeconomic woes didn't start 6 years ago, they just became front and center 6 years ago. They became more pronounced and damaging. They opened our eyes to the fact that we'd been sold out by the very ones that we entrusted with our well-being. Trace the roots of our economic decline and see what you find. I think that you'll be surprised.

All of these woes you spout can be tied to one single villain.

Government.

I take it your solution is more government?

Yes, the government is responsible. Yes, the government has sold us out. I have no idea as to why you think my solution would be more government. The solution is NOT more government. I have detailed my solution many times on this forum, and did so again this morning on another thread. I give my solution almost every single day on this forum.
What gave you the idea that my solution would be more government? Just curious.

Your detailed solutions have government involvement.

You want to fix the middle class? Get government out of the lives of all Americans.

It's impossible to get government out of our lives. We are under government rule and authority. It's been like that since 1776. And, it's not going to change anytime soon. We're at their mercy.

No its not. One simply needs to have the courage to do so.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Ok, so obviously we are having a communication problem here.
I am not saying the housing bubble affected home values in 1977, I am saying that the values were BEFORE THE HOUSING BUBBLE.
Thus why they were lower then. Because it was BEFORE THE HOUSING BUBBLE.

Car pricing....I say prices are greatly dependent on the availability of credit. You say "the willingness to buy"....well...the willingness to buy has absolutely no bearing if you can't get credit. Nobody pays cash for a new car. Everybody gets a loan.
You might WANT a new car, thus are "willing to buy one" but can't because you don't make enough money or your credit stinks. You can't get credit. You don't buy a car.
If Obama and company said "everyone should have a new car" -- and created a sudo government entity, let's call it "Cindy Mae"...where interest is practically 0%, and your job history, bad credit, or ability to pay had no bearing on your ability to get the loan. You think car sales would rise? You think prices would go up?
Hint: Education bubble, yeah...prices have a LOT to do with credit availability. Much-much more than "willingness to buy"

 

[Darkwind]

Your detailed solutions have government involvement.

You want to fix the middle class? Get government out of the lives of all Americans.

It's impossible to get government out of our lives. We are under government rule and authority. It's been like that since 1776. And, it's not going to change anytime soon. We're at their mercy.

So because government sets standards on weights and measures that means they get to control what we eat and what health insurance we have? Im not following you here.

Where did you get all of that? I have never mentioned any of that. Nor did I ever imply that. The government sets the rules. We live by government rules. We do not set our own rules. We do what the government says to do. The government runs this country, we don't.

Wow...

WOW ???? Meaning ??? Please explain. Thanks.

Meaning....I don't know how to even begin to address the mindset that we must all bow down and obey government. It boggles the mind.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

It should be naturally inherrent to resist govt. That's how we won our independence. More govt equals less freedom. This should be taught continuously from first grade to graduation.

 

[Sonny Clark]

The Middle Class has been under pressure since the 60's. The extent of the damage wasn't fully realized until 2008. The foundation to our declining Middle Class started crumbling in the 60's, and steadily progressed to the point we're at today. It was in the 60's when we started closing our plants and factories, thus taking away self-supporting opportunities that covered all education and skill levels. We started by closing the steel factories, then we lost the electronics industry ( when was the last America made TV produced? ), then those were soon followed by the textile mills, furniture and appliances, tools, farm equipment, automotive parts, toys, housewares, etc. etc.

Back in the 50's and early 60's, the men went to work and the women stayed home and raised the kids. One income was enough to live the good life. The Middle Class was doing great. Then, as plants and factories closed, the women entered the work force, and their numbers have been growing every since. And, now, two incomes aren't enough to support families in many cases. Steadily, over time, government assistance programs became a necessity in order to supply families with basic needs and necessities.

Once we started closing our plants and factories, taking away the self-supporting opportunities that covered all education and skill levels, the Middle Class was basically doomed. The proof to that statement makes daily headlines. We have 50% of our children living at or below the poverty line. We have 48 million citizens receiving food stamps. We have a growing homeless population. We have shameful unemployment, and employment consist of part-time jobs, temporary jobs, low paying jobs, and jobs with reduced company paid benefits. We have created a poor and dependent society. And, as I have stated, the foundation was laid back in the 60's with the closings of our plants and factories that supported the Middle Class.

Over the past 50 plus years, we've sacrificed our economic well-being in favor of strengthening foreign economies. And, the Middle Class has paid the highest price. Our socioeconomic woes didn't start 6 years ago, they just became front and center 6 years ago. They became more pronounced and damaging. They opened our eyes to the fact that we'd been sold out by the very ones that we entrusted with our well-being. Trace the roots of our economic decline and see what you find. I think that you'll be surprised.

All of these woes you spout can be tied to one single villain.

Government.

I take it your solution is more government?

Yes, the government is responsible. Yes, the government has sold us out. I have no idea as to why you think my solution would be more government. The solution is NOT more government. I have detailed my solution many times on this forum, and did so again this morning on another thread. I give my solution almost every single day on this forum.
What gave you the idea that my solution would be more government? Just curious.

Your detailed solutions have government involvement.

You want to fix the middle class? Get government out of the lives of all Americans.

It's impossible to get government out of our lives. We are under government rule and authority. It's been like that since 1776. And, it's not going to change anytime soon. We're at their mercy.

No its not. One simply needs to have the courage to do so.

Okay. So, how do we do that? What do you suggest we do to get rid of government and replace it with What? Please explain. Thanks.

 

[Sonny Clark]

It's impossible to get government out of our lives. We are under government rule and authority. It's been like that since 1776. And, it's not going to change anytime soon. We're at their mercy.

So because government sets standards on weights and measures that means they get to control what we eat and what health insurance we have? Im not following you here.

Where did you get all of that? I have never mentioned any of that. Nor did I ever imply that. The government sets the rules. We live by government rules. We do not set our own rules. We do what the government says to do. The government runs this country, we don't.

Wow...

WOW ???? Meaning ??? Please explain. Thanks.

Meaning....I don't know how to even begin to address the mindset that we must all bow down and obey government. It boggles the mind.

I don't believe that anyone has said to bow down to government. And, if we don't obey, what happens? If we break laws, what happens? If we don't pay taxes, what happens?

 

[G.T.]

I think the ideal situation for America would be for one of the two parents to be able to afford to stay home and raise their kids.

Right now, the middle class cant quite do that. So there are substitute parents, and then the "home time" is spent doing quality activities like laundry, dishes and cooking - furthering the divide btwn parent and kid.

We literally live to produce and consume as a society. Its sick.

 

[SwimExpert]

I am not saying the housing bubble affected home values in 1977, I am saying that the values were BEFORE THE HOUSING BUBBLE.
Thus why they were lower then. Because it was BEFORE THE HOUSING BUBBLE.

And? What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? It has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on homes in 1977 being under priced.

Car pricing....I say prices are greatly dependent on the availability of credit. You say "the willingness to buy"....well...the willingness to buy has absolutely no bearing if you can't get credit.

And credit has absolutely no bearing on the willingness to buy. I could have a $1 million line of credit available to me, but that won't make me willing to spend $50,000 on a Chevy spark.

Nobody pays cash for a new car. Everybody gets a loan.

That's not true.

You might WANT a new car, thus are "willing to buy one" but can't because you don't make enough money or your credit stinks. You can't get credit. You don't buy a car.

You make it sound like the world revolves around sub-prime loans. Which is bullshit.

If Obama and company said "everyone should have a new car" -- and created a sudo government entity, let's call it "Cindy Mae"...where interest is practically 0%, and your job history, bad credit, or ability to pay had no bearing on your ability to get the loan. You think car sales would rise? You think prices would go up? Hint: Education bubble, yeah...prices have a LOT to do with credit availability. Much-much more than "willingness to buy"

At best, your position amounts to saying that the availability of sub-prime loans has an effect on individuals' willingness to buy. In other words, it's a proxy factor inasmuch as it empowers poor spending decisions by irresponsible individuals. It does not change the fact that willingness to buy is still the direct driving factor.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

And? What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? It has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on homes in 1977 being under priced.

You said they were under-priced. I didn't. I said the prices were lower because it was before the housing bubble drove them up.

And credit has absolutely no bearing on the willingness to buy. I could have a $1 million line of credit available to me, but that won't make me willing to spend $50,000 on a Chevy spark.

I can't believe you are saying availability of credit has nothing to do with why people buy what they do. Holy Cow that is dumb.