Re-education Camps in America

[Amanda]

Now where's Agna when we need him?

Here's an observation from a recent escapee of the public school system, take it for what it's worth...

Some people here are complaining about liberal indoctrination in schools, let's call them complainers.
Some people are happy about the job schools are doing, let's call them happyests.

Has anyone noticed the correlation between the happyists and a liberal political leaning? The bias here seems pretty obvious to me, if a happyist is a liberal why would they be upset if public schools were indoctrinating kids with liberal thought?

Just seemed kinda obvious and wondered why no one had said it. Maybe it was so obvious it went without saying (until now! )

Anyway... I didn't feel like there was a huge liberal bias in school, but I did feel like most of the teachers didn't care much and that it was just a job to them. I got through school with mostly Cs and Ds and the occasional F. I might have got a B once or twice, I don't really remember. I never got an A. I could have only put in less effort if I didn't go at all. I don't think I was ever in any danger of not passing to the next grade.

But maybe worse than not caring was the teachers that would tell me things like it was ok because girls aren't as smart as boys, or that it was alright because I was pretty or had a good personality. Or the teachers that obviously hated us and would make sure to put us down in front of the class or be passive aggressive toward us. I liked seeing my friends and hanging out but I hated the school part of going to school.

 

[jillian]

I will just simply say... bet my kid is smarter than yours. This is nothing but a pissing match. You people don't know how to reason, all you know how to do is attack.

who is "you people"?

 

[dilloduck]

I had the opportuntity to go to several different schools growing up. I was pretty good at taking tests and figuring out what the teachers wanted so I didn't mind it. There was much more discipline in the classes than there is today so there wasn't the constant interrupton of some asshole trying to get attention.
Transferring from one school to the next made it painfully obvious that there were hidden agendas that each school wanted to impress on the students.

 

[catzmeow]

I will just simply say... bet my kid is smarter than yours. This is nothing but a pissing match. You people don't know how to reason, all you know how to do is attack.

I don't think you want to go there. My daughter is currently in all honors classes in high school, with a 4.0 GPA, and reads at above the college level. In fact, by 4th grade, she was reading at college level.

My son is 11 and reads at the 11th grade level. I'd never have allowed my children to get to middle school with poor reading skills. In fact, my son has struggled with reading because he suffered from severe and recurrent hearing loss (he's had 4 operations to insert tubes into his ear drums).

I've spent hundreds of HOURS at home listening to him reading aloud to get him above grade level.

I never expected the schools to shoulder the burden of educating my kids. That's MY JOB. The schools are there to supplement in areas where I am not qualified to educate my kids. But, both of my kids were reading before they ever started Kindergarten because I made sure of that situation.

I take my job seriously.

 

[Tech_Esq]

I don't know where your kids were going to school. And I would agree with you that social promotion should be stopped. But I'll also tell you that my son and I always read together and that he is 11 and has been reading college level for the past two years; started writing his own stories at about 4, and started his first novel over a year ago.

I think how much kids get out of school depends on how much they and their parents put into it... like anything else.

And I suspect you and I would differ as to what "corruption" is.

In general, I would agree with that. Parents cannot abdicate their responsibility to the school. However, the schools do make an effort to marginalize parental authority over the child. I find this more than a little annoying when I encounter it.

Additionally, we did have one incident with an intransigent principal who would not do the right thing when we discovered a poor teacher was teaching our daughter. We ended up home schooling for 5 years as a result.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Well, judging from what you have just posted, the Ivy League education was wasted on you.

Public schools are designed for the average student. Because of funding, class sizes, and curriculum requirements, they fail both the slow learner, and the very intelligent student.

Well, it's pretty clear which of the two groups you belong to. I'll bet you still have fond memories of the three best years of your life: the second grade.

Public schools fail because of deep thinkers like you. Funding? If only you picked a subject that you actually knew something about, like, say live bait.
The 11- 15 thousand spent per child in large districts like NY and DC is actully inversely proportional to the desired result. Thrown down a black hole. Easy to find figures like these:
New York State spent $14,119 per student — more than any other state in the nation — in the 2005 fiscal year, according to a national analysis of public school spending that the Census Bureau released today.

The analysis, Public Education Finances: 2005, placed New Jersey at No. 2 on the list, at $13,800, followed by the District of Columbia (which was treated as a state) at $12,979, Vermont at $11,835 and Connecticut at $11,572.


Class size? You are a font of misinformation. The Catholic schools can deal very well with 50-60 in a class, but government schools bitch about 23. Curriculum? Surely you jest, or possibly are a jester by vocation. Science education has become arts-and-crafts. Yesterday, I saw the cashier at the supermarket use a calculator to figure out how much she owed me for my 8 recycle bottles. I saw her punch in 8 times 5. Would you like to guess the source of her education?

Wise up. I am glad to see we didn't waste any education on you.

 

[Tech_Esq]

Personally, I think public education makes more sense as kids it helps build a childs social skills. However, I know a few families who home school their kids. It's usually not quite as simple as Suzie homemaker schooling Billie Jo and Billie Bob, like you make it sound. If you were intelligent enough to do any research on homeschooling, you would know this.

The mothers that I know who homeschool their kids all have college degrees. They teach their kids the things they know and understand completely. And they teach other kids who are homeschooled. One parent may teach reading and writing, while another teaches math and science. These kids are brought together for some teaching lessons, and many also go to programs like Score or a similar program, if they need additional assistance in a given subject.

Homeschooling isn't for everyone. Most parents would not be good at it. I certainly wouldn't. But those who choose to homeschool normally do a very good job. I would bet that most home schooled kids will score higher on most tests than those from public education.

Additionally, parents form informal collectives for specialized study especially in the upper grades. For instance, we paid a college professor to teach Spanish for about 10 home schooled students. Another example would be chemistry especially with a lab.

We were lucky because my wife an I balance each other out. She's was a Bio/Chem major so she's a whiz at math and science. I was a Poli sci/Business major with a history minor. So I have the social sciences down. We're both pretty good at English. So, it was easier for us than some.

Having done both home schooling with outside activities and public school for our kids, I can say that I am thoroughly unconvinced by the "socialization" argument. People need to just put that away, because it is so stupid and just plain wrong.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I don't think you want to go there. My daughter is currently in all honors classes in high school, with a 4.0 GPA, and reads at above the college level. In fact, by 4th grade, she was reading at college level.

My son is 11 and reads at the 11th grade level. I'd never have allowed my children to get to middle school with poor reading skills. In fact, my son has struggled with reading because he suffered from severe and recurrent hearing loss (he's had 4 operations to insert tubes into his ear drums).

I've spent hundreds of HOURS at home listening to him reading aloud to get him above grade level.

I never expected the schools to shoulder the burden of educating my kids. That's MY JOB. The schools are there to supplement in areas where I am not qualified to educate my kids. But, both of my kids were reading before they ever started Kindergarten because I made sure of that situation.

I take my job seriously.

The rewards for putting in the effort and hours that you have are great. I think that the combination of your kind of home schooling and government schooling probably result in a pretty good mix.

I, also, love the time I spend with my two.

 

[jillian]

In general, I would agree with that. Parents cannot abdicate their responsibility to the school. However, the schools do make an effort to marginalize parental authority over the child. I find this more than a little annoying when I encounter it.

Additionally, we did have one incident with an intransigent principal who would not do the right thing when we discovered a poor teacher was teaching our daughter. We ended up home schooling for 5 years as a result.

I certainly understand when specific problems occur. And it's our responsibility to make alternative choices for our children when necessary. I just happen to have a major disagreement about home schooling. I would have chosen a private school first. Just my own opinion, obviously.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I think that's the most unintentionally funny thing I have ever read in my life.

You mean since they let you out of the closet?

 

[Amanda]

I just happen to have a major disagreement about home schooling. I would have chosen a private school first. Just my own opinion, obviously.

I'm not a huge advocate for homeschooling but for some families it's a good choice, especially if they can't afford or don't live near a private school.

I knew a few kids that were homeschooled... they were different but mostly I think because they hadn't been knocked around by public schools. I guess some people would say they weren't properly socialized... it seemed to me they were a little naive because they hadn't been brutalized. But that's just my take on what I saw. Every single one of them was smarter than me.

 

[dilloduck]

I'm not a huge advocate for homeschooling but for some families it's a good choice, especially if they can't afford or don't live near a private school.

I knew a few kids that were homeschooled... they were different but mostly I think because they hadn't been knocked around by public schools. I guess some people would say they weren't properly socialized... it seemed to me they were a little naive because they hadn't been brutalized. But that's just my take on what I saw. Every single one of them was smarter than me.

well --brutalize them and complete their education !

 

[PoliticalChic]

I'm not a huge advocate for homeschooling but for some families it's a good choice, especially if they can't afford or don't live near a private school.

I knew a few kids that were homeschooled... they were different but mostly I think because they hadn't been knocked around by public schools. I guess some people would say they weren't properly socialized... it seemed to me they were a little naive because they hadn't been brutalized. But that's just my take on what I saw. Every single one of them was smarter than me.

Well, for what it's worth, here's another anecdote. My two are homeschooled, and they meet and deal with all ages. Several adults in my neighborhood have told me that they are the only children who greet, and speak to them. It appears that most grade-schoolers are only comfortable speaking to others of the same age. I'm sure that this isn't true of all, and the same applies to all homeschoolers.

 

[Amanda]

well --brutalize them and complete their education !

I would have liked to have "brutalized" 1 of them, but he wasn't having it.

 

[Amanda]

Well, for what it's worth, here's another anecdote. My two are homeschooled, and they meet and deal with all ages. Several adults in my neighborhood have told me that they are the only children who greet, and speak to them. It appears that most grade-schoolers are only comfortable speaking to others of the same age. I'm sure that this isn't true of all, and the same applies to all homeschoolers.

I wasn't trying to put them down at all. They had a lot of traits that the adults found very endearing. They were just different, that's all.

 

[Tech_Esq]

I certainly understand when specific problems occur. And it's our responsibility to make alternative choices for our children when necessary. I just happen to have a major disagreement about home schooling. I would have chosen a private school first. Just my own opinion, obviously.

I was very, very skeptical of home schooling going in for a very long list of reasons. As it played out, most of my concerns were unfounded. One thing I did find out before we made the move was that I completely over estimated the amount of learning that was occurring in school.

As it turned out, our daughter did exceptionally well when she re-entered the public school system. She was in Advanced Placement classes across the board, even in her worst subjects. It wasn't until she got all that good public school socialization she was missing out on that her grades started dropping.

I'd be interested in hearing what your disagreement is about home schooling. Unlike my wife, I'm not a big advocate. I think it isn't right for most people. I do think it is the right choice for some people or families, because it is really a family choice.

 

[Tech_Esq]

I'm not a huge advocate for homeschooling but for some families it's a good choice, especially if they can't afford or don't live near a private school.

I knew a few kids that were homeschooled... they were different but mostly I think because they hadn't been knocked around by public schools. I guess some people would say they weren't properly socialized... it seemed to me they were a little naive because they hadn't been brutalized. But that's just my take on what I saw. Every single one of them was smarter than me.

What you say is pretty accurate coming from the parents of kids that were home schooled to different degrees. Our youngest didn't go to "school" until he was in 3rd grade. Having never experienced the uber-rules based society that is public school, he had the hardest time adjusting.

Our middle son is an extrovert and had the whole thing whipped in about 2 weeks. Our daughter had no trouble readjusting and nobody really new she was homeschooled. She attended 9th grade at a high school that was newly opened, so most kids didn't know each other anyway. She was captain of the swim team her first year, even though she was a Freshman.

But yes, hadn't been brutalized by the school system is a good way to put it. The question I was left with was, is it a net benefit for someone to have been brutalized by the system? Are they missing out if they don't have that? I've decided that the answer to both of those questions is no.

 

[catzmeow]

The rewards for putting in the effort and hours that you have are great. I think that the combination of your kind of home schooling and government schooling probably result in a pretty good mix.

I, also, love the time I spend with my two.

Thanks. Of course, having said what I've said, most of the teachers my kids have had have done well. This year, though, we have dealt with a teacher who is insisting that 4 little boys in her class, including mine, have ADD and need to be medicated. I got the parents of the boys together at my house last weekend, and we will be meeting with the principal later this month to address this issue. For the record, none of the boys has been diagnosed as ADD. They're just LITTLE BOYS.

First experience I've had with this phenomenon, though I've read a lot about it.

Teachers diagnosing children as ADD is against the law in Florida and several other states, btw.

I think this is why parents need to be VERY involved in their children's education, no matter how they are educated.

 

[Father Time]

You mean since they let you out of the closet?

Oh come on you find nothing funny in the idea that something can somehow be an exaggeration and accurate at the same time?

If it's an exaggeration then by it's very nature it's not entirely true.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Oh come on you find nothing funny in the idea that something can somehow be an exaggeration and accurate at the same time?

If it's an exaggeration then by it's very nature it's not entirely true.

Thanks for adding the word "entirely." Now add to our total knowledge.