Rape Trees

[Coyote]

They had a chance to make their conditions better where they were, didn't, and now want to live off others.

Let's just call it what it is.

I have sympathy for the children, and some for the women. What happened with the men in these fallen nations?

That is the most arrogant answer I have heard, and not just from you.

Why didn’t our male ancestors stay and try to fix their nations?

Why did the Irish come in hoards fleeing British induced poverty?
Why didn’t the Jews stay and fight Hitler?
Why did Soviet men immigrate instead staying to fight off communism?
Why did Cubans leave Cuba instead of fixing their nation?

Why do you make this demand on THESE people….but not OUR people?

I understand their reasons for coming in many cases, they want something better for their children, they want a future that isn’t being eaten up by corruption fueled violence, climate change induced drought, or ethnic strife that marks failed states created under colonialism. Kind of like our own people.

So I get WHY they are willing to undergo incredible danger and risk to try. We, Americans, are in many cases too soft and spoiled and entitled to contemplate this sort of life beyond armchair bravado.

Their circumstances and reasons for not staying are not dependent on whether they are legal or illegal immigrants, because our ancestors (whom you would consider cowardly) got the hell out of Dodge. Like these people, MEN often came first to weather the dangers and create a life where they could then bring their families or send money home to them to help.

 

[SweetSue92]

That is the most arrogant answer I have heard, and not just from you.

Why didn’t our male ancestors stay and try to fix their nations?

Why did the Irish come in hoards fleeing British induced poverty?
Why didn’t the Jews stay and fight Hitler?
Why did Soviet men immigrate instead staying to fight off communism?
Why did Cubans leave Cuba instead of fixing their nation?

Why do you make this demand on THESE people….but not OUR people?

I understand their reasons for coming in many cases, they want something better for their children, they want a future that isn’t being eaten up by corruption fueled violence, climate change induced drought, or ethnic strife that marks failed states created under colonialism. Kind of like our own people.

So I get WHY they are willing to undergo incredible danger and risk to try. We, Americans, are in many cases too soft and spoiled and entitled to contemplate this sort of life beyond armchair bravado.

Their circumstances and reasons for not staying are not dependent on whether they are legal or illegal immigrants, because our ancestors (whom you would consider cowardly) got the hell out of Dodge. Like these people, MEN often came first to weather the dangers and create a life where they could then bring their families or send money home to them to help.

You're kidding right?

There's a difference between persecution--which is many of the examples you use--and being a bystander to corruption until it's too late.

ALSO

In many cases the examples you cite were not ILLEGAL. These people are coming here illegally and often committing actual crimes in the process. Big difference.

 

[westwall]

Any alien, legal or not, should be deported if they rape or break the law

Doesn’t reflect on those who are just here to work

If they are convicted of rape they should be drowned in the Rio Grande river.

 

[Coyote]

You're kidding right?

No. I am absolutely not kidding.

There's a difference between persecution--which is many of the examples you use--and being a bystander to corruption until it's too late.

No. There isn’t. To use your logic, why did those being persecuted sit around being a bystander to the changes going on that led to active persecution?

And corruption…easy to fight right? Umh…how? For example, the situation in the borderlands, horrific violence, mass graves, disappearances, corruption among police and government officials and well armed and financed cartel gangs? When did it start? What makes you think people were bystanders? How about all those who have been murdered to make an example? What are you, a young mother with small children going? What do you want husband to do? Something like our own ancestors did?

ALSO

In many cases the examples you cite were not ILLEGAL.

Legal or illegal immigration status has nothing to do with their reasons for not staying behind. Legal or illegal status only matters once they are here, not WHY they came. You apply two different standards by insisting one group should stay behind for reasons you won’t apply to the other group. At least be consistent in calling people cowardly.

These people are coming here illegally and often committing actual crimes in the process. Big difference.

The big difference is that claim has been proven false if you are implying they committed crimes before immigrating. The vast majority are not criminals.

 

[Coyote]

tariffs

~S~

How would that affect immigration and border security?

 

[sparky]

How would that affect immigration and border security?

because if these countries don't clean up their act, we can make doing business with them hard Coyote

~S~

 

[SweetSue92]

No. I am absolutely not kidding.



No. There isn’t. To use your logic, why did those being persecuted sit around being a bystander to the changes going on that led to active persecution?

And corruption…easy to fight right? Umh…how? For example, the situation in the borderlands, horrific violence, mass graves, disappearances, corruption among police and government officials and well armed and financed cartel gangs? When did it start? What makes you think people were bystanders? How about all those who have been murdered to make an example? What are you, a young mother with small children going? What do you want husband to do? Something like our own ancestors did?



Legal or illegal immigration status has nothing to do with their reasons for not staying behind. Legal or illegal status only matters once they are here, not WHY they came. You apply two different standards by insisting one group should stay behind for reasons you won’t apply to the other group. At least be consistent in calling people cowardly.

These people are coming here illegally and often committing actual crimes in the process. Big difference.

The big difference is that claim has been proven false if you are implying they committed crimes before immigrating. The vast majority are not criminals.

yes, I absolutely expect the men of society to stand on business when the corruption is obviously doing harm to women and children. They didn't, many don't, and now they flood other nations ILLEGALLY. Coming here without legal status and/or being pre-approved IS. ILLEGAL.

 

[SweetSue92]

You're kidding right?

There's a difference between persecution--which is many of the examples you use--and being a bystander to corruption until it's too late.

ALSO

In many cases the examples you cite were not ILLEGAL. These people are coming here illegally and often committing actual crimes in the process. Big difference.

See: Venezuela

Generally the population thought all the "free stuff" was great until they realized stuff don't come free.

We just missed this by a hair in the USA, by the way.

 

[Coyote]

because if these countries don't clean up their act, we can make doing business with them hard Coyote

~S~

I think that is simplistic because it implies they hhave the ability and resources to “clean up their own act”.

Guatemala is one of the countries with a large number of migrants. One of the biggest factors driving migration is poverty and lack of opportunity and extended drought destroying the agricultural sector.

How will tariffs alleviate the drought, bring in economic opportunities and fix the poverty? Or, are you going suggest they build a Berlin Wall to keep people locked in?

 

[Coyote]

yes, I absolutely expect the men of society to stand on business when the corruption is obviously doing harm to women and children. They didn't, many don't, and now they flood other nations ILLEGALLY. Coming here without legal status and/or being pre-approved IS. ILLEGAL.

Our ancestors didn’t. Imagine that.

I’m curious, are you a parent?

I’m not, but I can’t imagine sacrificing my family. If I’m a parent, and I’m faced with the level of violence, corruption or poverty some of these people are, I think I would put my family’s survival over tackling my country’s issues. At least I would not blame people who do choose that for their children. After all, our ancestors did.

 

[SweetSue92]

Our ancestors didn’t. Imagine that.

I’m curious, are you a parent?

I’m not, but I can’t imagine sacrificing my family. If I’m a parent, and I’m faced with the level of violence, corruption or poverty some of these people are, I think I would put my family’s survival over tackling my country’s issues. At least I would not blame people who do choose that for their children. After all, our ancestors did.

I am a mother, and as a mother I absolutely would. I have already said I do not blame mothers with children for coming here.

But what is lacking is MEN doing the right thing, most of the time. Are there extenuating circumstances? Of course. But you can't look at nations that have been broken and corrupt for 50 years, riddled with crime and gangs, and say, oh well hey, it's no one's fault.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Two questions have gone unanswered by opponents of building a wall.

What has Kamala Harris done so far as the person responsible for solving the root causes of illegal immigration?

Why are the men in Mexico not expected to do anything at all about the violence and corruption that is ruining their country?

 

[Coyote]

See: Venezuela

Generally the population thought all the "free stuff" was great until they realized stuff don't come free.

We just missed this by a hair in the USA, by the way.

That is horribly simplistic Sue. We are nothing close to Venezuela, and never have been. I don’t know a whole lot about the history in depth, but from what I’ve read much of South America has a heritage marked by extreme poverty in the masses and a wealthy elite that has created cycles of repressive authoritarianism broken by populist rebellions. Too much promised free stuff vs. too much repression. Neither works in the long term though does it?

 

[SweetSue92]

Two questions have gone unanswered by opponents of building a wall.

What has Kamala Harris done so far as the person responsible for solving the root causes of illegal immigration?

Why are the men in Mexico not expected to do anything at all about the violence and corruption that is ruining their country?

Well according to moderator Coyote, they're not responsible for any of it. They can just come here. Many who come here want to continue the crime and gang life...

 

[SweetSue92]

That is horribly simplistic Sue. We are nothing close to Venezuela, and never have been. I don’t know a whole lot about the history in depth, but from what I’ve read much of South America has a heritage marked by extreme poverty in the masses and a wealthy elite that has created cycles of repressive authoritarianism broken by populist rebellions. Too much promised free stuff vs. too much repression. Neither works in the long term though does it?

The people voted for it for years and years and years and years.

Then when they didn't like the inevitable consequences of their votes, they want to storm in here ILLEGALLY

And you're like yes, poor folks, let them in.

I'm sorry, sympathy for this does extend, but only so far. Another example: a single mother of ANY race who already has six children with five dads and is pg with the seventh. Do I feel horrid for her children? Yes. Do they all deserve not to starve, even the mother? Yes. But man, those are some bad, bad choices.

 

[sparky]

I think that is simplistic because it implies they hhave the ability and resources to “clean up their own act”.

Guatemala is one of the countries with a large number of migrants. One of the biggest factors driving migration is poverty and lack of opportunity and extended drought destroying the agricultural sector.

How will tariffs alleviate the drought, bring in economic opportunities and fix the poverty? Or, are you going suggest they build a Berlin Wall to keep people locked in?

First off, you need to realize these are corrupt cartel run countries that could care less about their people

But they do have an economy which is necessary for them to continue to exist , much of which is dependent on American consumerism

Hit that in their wallet , and watch them gain a whole new attitude about emptying their refuse for America to be responsible for

IE~ the pen is mightier than the wall

~S~

 

[EvilCat Breath]

That is the most arrogant answer I have heard, and not just from you.

Why didn’t our male ancestors stay and try to fix their nations?

Why did the Irish come in hoards fleeing British induced poverty?
Why didn’t the Jews stay and fight Hitler?
Why did Soviet men immigrate instead staying to fight off communism?
Why did Cubans leave Cuba instead of fixing their nation?

Why do you make this demand on THESE people….but not OUR people?

I understand their reasons for coming in many cases, they want something better for their children, they want a future that isn’t being eaten up by corruption fueled violence, climate change induced drought, or ethnic strife that marks failed states created under colonialism. Kind of like our own people.

So I get WHY they are willing to undergo incredible danger and risk to try. We, Americans, are in many cases too soft and spoiled and entitled to contemplate this sort of life beyond armchair bravado.

Their circumstances and reasons for not staying are not dependent on whether they are legal or illegal immigrants, because our ancestors (whom you would consider cowardly) got the hell out of Dodge. Like these people, MEN often came first to weather the dangers and create a life where they could then bring their families or send money home to them to help.

You are confusing historical settlers with current invaders. When those settlers came they came to a largely empty land they fought what few inhabitants there were.

You don't want today's invaders to come here under the same circumstances. No hotels, no food, no medical care, no jobs, no schools. Just sudden death around every corner as the current inhabitants fight back.

 

[Moonglow]

Two questions have gone unanswered by opponents of building a wall.

What has Kamala Harris done so far as the person responsible for solving the root causes of illegal immigration?

Why are the men in Mexico not expected to do anything at all about the violence and corruption that is ruining their country?

Nobody dares touch US industries or the wealthy and their illegals cleaning their homes, why, these are the people running our govt. and yes, Trump is included.

Donald Trump and Undocumented Workers at Trump Tower​

Time Magazine
https://time.com › Politics › Donald Trump




Aug 25, 2016 — “Donald told me he had difficulties …,” Sullivan later testified in the case. “That he had some illegal Polish employees on the job.”.

Donald Trump Used Illegal Immigrants to Build Trump Tower ...​

The American Presidency Project
https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu › documents › rubio-ca...




Rubio Campaign Press Release - Fact Check: Donald Trump Used Illegal Immigrants to Build Trump Tower. February 26, 2016. TrumpTower893. The Facts: "Trump ...

5 questions about President Trump's use of undocumented ...​

The Washington Post
https://www.washingtonpost.com › politics › 2019/12/04




Dec 4, 2019 — While Trump was denouncing illegal immigration in public, his company relied on undocumented immigrants: they built Trump's golf courses and ...

Report: Trump Happily Employing Undocumented Workers ...​

Vanity Fair
https://www.vanityfair.com › News › trump organization




Aug 9, 2019 — Report: Trump Happily Employing Undocumented Workers While ICE Rounds Them Up ... illegal employment of immigrants in the state, officials said.

How two housekeepers took on the president​

The Washington Post
https://www.washingtonpost.com › politics › 2019/12/04




Dec 4, 2019 — Undocumented workers got an unvarnished look at the lives of the now-first family.

Making President Trump's Bed: A Housekeeper Without ...​

The New York Times
https://www.nytimes.com › 2018/12/06 › trump-bedmi...




Dec 6, 2018 — At the president's New Jersey golf course, an undocumented immigrant has worked as a maid since 2013. She said she never imagined she “would ...

More than 100 undocumented immigrants worked at ...​

The Hill
https://thehill.com › latino › 429136-more-than-100-un...




Feb 8, 2019 — We take this issue very seriously.” Tags Donald Trump Donald Trump illegal immigrants The Trump Organization. Copyright 2024 Nexstar Media ...


Cently found 5 coupons!

Despite Trump's claims, data shows migrants aren't taking ...​

PBS
https://www.pbs.org › newshour › politics › despite-tru...




Oct 12, 2024 — Trump, who often uses anti-immigrant rhetoric, has referred ... labor market were primarily due to illegal immigration. The latest ...

Report: Trump golf course knowingly employed ...​

Axios
https://www.axios.com › Axios › Politics & Policy




Feb 8, 2019 — Why it matters: From the campaign trail to the Oval Office, President Trump's rhetoric surrounding illegal immigration has been harsh and ...

Trump Organization fires more undocumented workers​

CBS News
https://www.cbsnews.com › Politics




Dec 31, 2019 — The Trump Organization has fired more undocumented employees at properties including the Trump Winery in Virginia just before the end of the year.

 

[sparky]

Then when they didn't like the inevitable consequences of their votes, they want to storm in here ILLEGALLY

Chavez was the glory of the left a few decades ago, until his socialist construct fell apart

Now our Canadian border is seeing 10X's the influx, most of which are from Venezuela

Something you may appreciate >>>

~S~

 

[Seymour Flops]

yes, there is a paperwork problem that can be easily resolved

migrants come here to work, pick our crops, make our beds, do menial labor……all to support their families

Why don’t you want Americans to do those jobs?