Rape Trees

[rightwinger]

Why don’t you want Americans to do those jobs?

They are welcome to them
You want a job making beds in a hotel at that wage, they will hire you
You want to work harvesting crops, there is a job for you

 

[Seymour Flops]

Well according to moderator Coyote, they're not responsible for any of it. They can just come here. Many who come here want to continue the crime and gang life...

It’s not an either-or. Most wars, or resistance, is fought by young men who don’t have those family responsibilities.

 

[Coyote]

I am a mother, and as a mother I absolutely would. I have already said I do not blame mothers with children for coming here.

But what is lacking is MEN doing the right thing, most of the time. Are there extenuating circumstances? Of course. But you can't look at nations that have been broken and corrupt for 50 years, riddled with crime and gangs, and say, oh well hey, it's no one's fault.

Ok. Let’s tackle this point first: men.

What is the right thing?

Keep in mind, the current surge in immigrants has been by far, families. Not single “fighting age” men. Families.

Why is it assumed fathers should have less interest in protecting and improving the opportunities for their families than mothers? Why is staying behind “the right thing” but not going with your family, to provide for them, to protect them, not? Why are father’s expected to stay and “fix” their countries?

Why is it “the wrong thing” for men to first come and make the incredibly dangerous journey across in order first in order secure a safe environment or the economic means to bring their families to?

This is the difference between making judgements based on real situations over idealistic hypotheticals.

And we are judging these people based on the same choices that our own immigrant ancestors made. We are also forgetting that migration has always been a natural human activity in response to adversity.

The second thing is assigning “fault” for the current situation of many of the countries they are fleeing. It is very human to want to want to assign blame because it makes US feel better for the judgements we then make regarding those countries.

Here are some of the factors I’ve come across that have led to conditions pushing migration:

Extreme poverty.
Oppressive governments.
Violence
Climate conditions: drought, hurricanes, flooding that adversely affect agriculture.
War
Underlying these are broader issues:

Conditions created by colonial policies - for example creating artificial countries forcing together ethnic and religious groups that are otherwise antagonistic each other. Seperating ethnic groups into multiple countries. Creating divide-and-conquer governments that put power in minority hands so they are beholden to the colonial government. The end result is often artificial states with weak central governments where citizens have more identification with tribe, ethnicity or religion than their national identity.

Conditions created by climate change which affect political stability, access to resources, destruction of angriculture, political upheaval and war.

I am sure there are more reasons, but for most part these situations are due to multiple causative factors over a long period of time and sometimes it’s a “perfect storm” of many things coming together at one time.

So…migration. Who is to blame for migrants from…
Iraq?
El Salvador?
Guatemala?

 

[Coyote]

Why don’t you want Americans to do those jobs?

Why won’t they?

 

[Coyote]

Well according to moderator Coyote, they're not responsible for any of it. They can just come here. Many who come here want to continue the crime and gang life...

What does my being a moderator have to do with my responding here Sue?

 

[Coyote]

Well according to moderator Coyote, they're not responsible for any of it. They can just come here. Many who come here want to continue the crime and gang life...

What actual data do you have to support that claim?

How many immigrants come in each year?
What proportion are actively involved in serious crime or gangs?

Real data Sue, not conjecture.

 

[rightwinger]

So Republicans

What would you prefer that migrants do with their money after a hard days work?

Spend their earnings on beer and cigarettes
Send their money home to their struggling family

 

[Coyote]

Chavez was the glory of the left a few decades ago, until his socialist construct fell apart

Now our Canadian border is seeing 10X's the influx, most of which are from Venezuela

Something you may appreciate >>>
View attachment 1056679


~S~

Well, Chavez was populist who appealed to the poor in a country with a huge wealth gap and historical cycles of authoritarian oppression and populist uprising. As a leftist I was not a fan and he ultimately showed himself to be just another self-serving dictator as populists often do (left and right). And now, with his successor doubling down and international sanctions as a result…Venezuela is a mess.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

So Republicans

What would you prefer that migrants do with their money after a hard days work?

Spend their earnings on beer and cigarettes
Send their money home to their struggling family

They shouldn't even be here. Pack them up and send them back.

 

[Coyote]

First off, you need to realize these are corrupt cartel run countries that could care less about their people

True, I’ve long realized that Sparky.

But they do have an economy which is necessary for them to continue to exist , much of which is dependent on American consumerism

Hit that in their wallet , and watch them gain a whole new attitude about emptying their refuse for America to be responsible for

Corrupt regimes care more about themselves than their people, destroying what economy they have will only lead to increased poverty people (NK is a good example). What refuse are you talking about? Our own ancestors who immigrated here fleeing poverty?

IE~ the pen is mightier than the wall

~S~

That is true…

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Struggling foreign families are not our responsibility. They have governments l. Tell them.

 

[rightwinger]

They shouldn't even be here. Pack them up and send them back.

But they are here and they contribute to our economy

 

[EvilCat Breath]

True, I’ve long realized that Sparky.



Corrupt regimes care more about themselves than their people, destroying what economy they have will only lead to increased poverty people (NK is a good example). What refuse are you talking about? Our own ancestors who immigrated here fleeing poverty?


That is true…

If the people don't like their corrupt regimes, replace them.

You keep equating today's invaders with settlers who came to build a great nation. But you wouldn't want the comparison to go further. Like, allowing citizens to bury a tomahawk in their lice ridden heads. That's what the settlers faced. If you really think these invaders are settlers, say so. They are here to settle a nation that's up for grabs and to kill off and displace the current population. That's being honest.

 

[rightwinger]

Struggling foreign families are not our responsibility. They have governments l. Tell them.

People are responsible for their families
Coming to America and then thinking they are no longer your responsibility is very callous

 

[EvilCat Breath]

But they are here and they contribute to our economy

They certainly contribute make work for the police and courts. The largest employer of invaders are the controlling cartels.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

The Democrat party serves the World Economic Forum. The World Economic Forum seeks to eliminate the nation state. To make that easier, the puppet they installed ushered in Millions of illegals to indulge in widespread criminal activity with the goal of fomenting chaos and weakening us from within.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

They are welcome to them
You want a job making beds in a hotel at that wage, they will hire you
You want to work harvesting crops, there is a job for you

Both of which are rapidly becoming obsolete. Stop welfare and the few jobs that remain will be quickly filled.

 

[SweetSue92]

Chavez was the glory of the left a few decades ago, until his socialist construct fell apart

Now our Canadian border is seeing 10X's the influx, most of which are from Venezuela

Something you may appreciate >>>
View attachment 1056679


~S~

Pilgrims found that out in Jamestown too

 

[SweetSue92]

Ok. Let’s tackle this point first: men.

What is the right thing?

Keep in mind, the current surge in immigrants has been by far, families. Not single “fighting age” men. Families.

Why is it assumed fathers should have less interest in protecting and improving the opportunities for their families than mothers? Why is staying behind “the right thing” but not going with your family, to provide for them, to protect them, not? Why are father’s expected to stay and “fix” their countries?

Why is it “the wrong thing” for men to first come and make the incredibly dangerous journey across in order first in order secure a safe environment or the economic means to bring their families to?

This is the difference between making judgements based on real situations over idealistic hypotheticals.

And we are judging these people based on the same choices that our own immigrant ancestors made. We are also forgetting that migration has always been a natural human activity in response to adversity.

The second thing is assigning “fault” for the current situation of many of the countries they are fleeing. It is very human to want to want to assign blame because it makes US feel better for the judgements we then make regarding those countries.

Here are some of the factors I’ve come across that have led to conditions pushing migration:

Extreme poverty.
Oppressive governments.
Violence
Climate conditions: drought, hurricanes, flooding that adversely affect agriculture.
War
Underlying these are broader issues:

Conditions created by colonial policies - for example creating artificial countries forcing together ethnic and religious groups that are otherwise antagonistic each other. Seperating ethnic groups into multiple countries. Creating divide-and-conquer governments that put power in minority hands so they are beholden to the colonial government. The end result is often artificial states with weak central governments where citizens have more identification with tribe, ethnicity or religion than their national identity.

Conditions created by climate change which affect political stability, access to resources, destruction of angriculture, political upheaval and war.

I am sure there are more reasons, but for most part these situations are due to multiple causative factors over a long period of time and sometimes it’s a “perfect storm” of many things coming together at one time.

So…migration. Who is to blame for migrants from…
Iraq?
El Salvador?
Guatemala?

People do not have the right to come into our nation ILLEGALLY and stay here. Nothing you say changes that. This is why we have a LEGAL system including asylum. Many of the examples you made DO NOT involve illegal immigration. For pity's sake, the Pilgrims who came here were British citizens and this was a British colony.

 

[Cassandro]

What other posts?

These:

Where has the right been???

their rates of violent crime are far lower than that of native born Americans.

We don’t have any control over Mexican territory.

they will remain on the Mexican side getting raped, trafficked and murdered

Native. Born. Americans.

There is no such thing with the cartels.

The violence, trafficking and cartels are primarily on tbe Mexican side of the border.

Fencing the entire border changes nothing on the Mexican side

the conditions they are fleeing are worse than what they are coming to.

a border wall is not the only way of controlling our side of the border.

There is very little call for illegal immigrants to vote

A wall just “feels good” even though they can and have gotten over it.