Rape Trees

[Coyote]

. . . and you think the way that this system works is good?

No, I’m not making a judgement on it, just stating the facts. I do think it needs to be revised given the situation at the border.

You are telling me that you actually believe tens of millions of people are really in danger in their home nation?

I’m not making any judgements on whether or not they were actually in danger, there is a multi-step process starting with ICE interviews and culminating in the courts to determine this. Very few are actually granted asylum.

More folks coming here for "asylum," than were even at risk from Stalin, Hitler or Mao, yet we don't really know, or the press doesn't tell the nation, who is the originator of this " persecution or a well-founded fear of persecution" to the asylees is?

The definition of those who have the right for asylum, according to law, is;

". . .such person is habitually residing, and who is persecuted or who has a well-founded fear of persecution on account of race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion."


You really believe all these so called "refugees," who are coming here, can make such a claim?

Again, I wasn’t discussing the credibility of anyone’s asylum claims, just pointing that the way the laws are currently written they are not here illegally until they are denied. If you don’t like it, change the laws.

 

[Coyote]

(2) Exceptions​

(A) Safe third country​

"Paragraph (1) shall not apply to an alien if the Attorney General determines that the alien may be removed, pursuant to a bilateral or multilateral agreement, to a country (other than the country of the alien's nationality or, in the case of an alien having no nationality, the country of the alien's last habitual residence) in which the alien's life or freedom would not be threatened on account of race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion, and where the alien would have access to a full and fair procedure for determining a claim to asylum or equivalent temporary protection, unless the Attorney General finds that it is in the public interest for the alien to receive asylum in the United States."

<snip>

(A) Eligibility​

"The Secretary of Homeland Security or the Attorney General may grant asylum to an alien who has applied for asylum in accordance with the requirements and procedures established by the Secretary of Homeland Security or the Attorney General under this section if the Secretary of Homeland Security or the Attorney General determines that such alien is a refugee within the meaning of section 1101(a)(42)(A) of this title."

<snip>

​

(4) Notice of privilege of counsel and consequences of frivolous application​

"At the time of filing an application for asylum, the Attorney General shall-

(A) advise the alien of the privilege of being represented by counsel and of the consequences, under paragraph (6), of knowingly filing a frivolous application for asylum; and

(B) provide the alien a list of persons (updated not less often than quarterly) who have indicated their availability to represent aliens in asylum proceedings on a pro bono basis."

https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid:USC-prelim-title8-section1158&num=0&edition=prelim

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uscode.house.gov

"(42) The term "refugee" means (A) any person who is outside any country of such person's nationality or, in the case of a person having no nationality, is outside any country in which such person last habitually resided, and who is unable or unwilling to return to, and is unable or unwilling to avail himself or herself of the protection of, that country because of persecution or a well-founded fear of persecution on account of race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion, or (B) in such special circumstances as the President after appropriate consultation (as defined in section 1157(e) of this title) may specify, any person who is within the country of such person's nationality or, in the case of a person having no nationality, within the country in which such person is habitually residing, and who is persecuted or who has a well-founded fear of persecution on account of race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion. The term "refugee" does not include any person who ordered, incited, assisted, or otherwise participated in the persecution of any person on account of race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion. For purposes of determinations under this chapter, a person who has been forced to abort a pregnancy or to undergo involuntary sterilization, or who has been persecuted for failure or refusal to undergo such a procedure or for other resistance to a coercive population control program, shall be deemed to have been persecuted on account of political opinion, and a person who has a well founded fear that he or she will be forced to undergo such a procedure or subject to persecution for such failure, refusal, or resistance shall be deemed to have a well founded fear of persecution on account of political opinion."

MisterBeale, this is a waste of your effort because I am not arguing about whether or not asylum claims are credible, that wasn’t my point.

 

[HeyNorm]

Ok. Let’s tackle this point first: men.

What is the right thing?

Keep in mind, the current surge in immigrants has been by far, families. Not single “fighting age” men. Families.

Why is it assumed fathers should have less interest in protecting and improving the opportunities for their families than mothers? Why is staying behind “the right thing” but not going with your family, to provide for them, to protect them, not? Why are father’s expected to stay and “fix” their countries?

Why is it “the wrong thing” for men to first come and make the incredibly dangerous journey across in order first in order secure a safe environment or the economic means to bring their families to?

This is the difference between making judgements based on real situations over idealistic hypotheticals.

And we are judging these people based on the same choices that our own immigrant ancestors made. We are also forgetting that migration has always been a natural human activity in response to adversity.

The second thing is assigning “fault” for the current situation of many of the countries they are fleeing. It is very human to want to want to assign blame because it makes US feel better for the judgements we then make regarding those countries.

Here are some of the factors I’ve come across that have led to conditions pushing migration:

Extreme poverty.
Oppressive governments.
Violence
Climate conditions: drought, hurricanes, flooding that adversely affect agriculture.
War
Underlying these are broader issues:

Conditions created by colonial policies - for example creating artificial countries forcing together ethnic and religious groups that are otherwise antagonistic each other. Seperating ethnic groups into multiple countries. Creating divide-and-conquer governments that put power in minority hands so they are beholden to the colonial government. The end result is often artificial states with weak central governments where citizens have more identification with tribe, ethnicity or religion than their national identity.

Conditions created by climate change which affect political stability, access to resources, destruction of angriculture, political upheaval and war.

I am sure there are more reasons, but for most part these situations are due to multiple causative factors over a long period of time and sometimes it’s a “perfect storm” of many things coming together at one time.

So…migration. Who is to blame for migrants from…
Iraq?
El Salvador?
Guatemala?

The real question that needs answered is why you have locks on your homes doors?

It’s likely to keep people out that you either don’t know, or don’t know well enough to have open access to your “border”.

I’m probably right in the assumption you lock your doors.

Why do you insist that you can have personal sovereignty of your home, but we, as a country cannot?

 

[Coyote]

Why do you insist that you can have personal sovereignty of your home, but we, as a country cannot?

I don’t.

 

[HeyNorm]

I don’t.

BS

 

[jwoodie]

False binary choices are not solutions.

Logic not your strong point?

 

[MisterBeale]

The law requires asylum seekers to ask for asylum at a legal port of entry.

I did not know this. I have posted the law in post #155, but did not go over all the legalese with fine tooth comb, please find that section and quote it.

I suspect this statement is not in the law. I went and looked to see if aslyees were required to request asylum in the first, "safe," nation, as in Europe, I could not find it.

Again, I wasn’t discussing the credibility of anyone’s asylum claims,

This is because you are smart enough, and have enough integrity to know, that the system is being abused and purposely over loaded by nefarious interests.

Why not just be honest?

I remember Kamala was supposed to drill down on these "root causes."

Well? What did she produce, what are the results of such so-called work, and why are we not addressing THAT if it really is causing tens of millions of asylees?

Rhetorical question. We both know the answer to that one.

Government "corruption," is not a reason for mass migration and asylum status. Nor is " Economic Insecurity and Inequality," a reason either. Not according to the laws I just posted. Yet? That is the rhetoric we are getting, something not covered in refugee status at all.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Root-Causes-Strategy.pdf

 

[MisterBeale]

MisterBeale, this is a waste of your effort because I am not arguing about whether or not asylum claims are credible, that wasn’t my point.

But that IS the point here. It's a massive grift.


Anything else? Are just the talking points of the cartels, billionaire foundations, and other corrupt nations.



You know, according to law, that the greater proportion of these claims ARE just bogus. There is no news or reports generated on how this many people legitimately feel, "under threat."

There is not more folks under threat than there was from Hitler, or it would be continual news.




Some of us care, some apparently don't.

 

[MisterBeale]

Refugee Timeline | USCIS

This timeline traces the major events and policies that affected refugee admissions under the INS and its predecessor agencies, from 1891 to 2003.

www.uscis.gov

 

[Arlette]

yes, I absolutely expect the men of society to stand on business when the corruption is obviously doing harm to women and children. They didn't, many don't, and now they flood other nations ILLEGALLY. Coming here without legal status and/or being pre-approved IS. ILLEGAL.

Sounds like the problem is men. Very few female rapists out there.

 

[SweetSue92]

Tell me all about those elections Sue. Oh…and don’t forget include US meddling and corruption while you’re at it.




Well, kudos to you…you can’t get much more simplistic than that.

Now, what’s your excuse for your ancestors who came storming over here!



Nope. We need to have an orderly process of immigration. What I oppose is your need to denigrate them and your hypocrisy in the standards you apply them (they should stay and fight) vs. your own ancestors who came to build a better life

My ancestors did not break in here ILLEGALLY. They were British citizens and they came to a British colony. What are you even talking about?

And to your "orderly process of immigration"?....I have already said this. There is a LEGAL process, but you don't seem to prefer that. You want to excuse criminal behavior.

 

[sparky]

We're being invaded

all because sanctuary broke legal immigration

(thx Mr B for clarity)

this is not doing anyone a favor, this is perpetuating their suffering

~S~

 

[toobfreak]

Wait do the females actually get raped against the tree or is it just used for symbolism? Either way that's horrible.

I imagine they get raped in the area then the tree is used to record and commemorate the event I guess.
This seems a big part of these women and children getting here, not just for the money but for the sex, drugs, and the human slave labor.
This is the unseemly underbelly behind the border apathy mostly promulgated by the democrats, Biden and our Border Czar Kamala, but not exactly always taken serious by a lot of republicans neither--- except mostly Trump and MAGA people.

 

[LeftofLeft]

better cut down that tree that rapes.

You think rape is funny? Does it bother you that rape and human trafficking from shit hole countries runs counter to American values?

 

[LeftofLeft]

I do not think that's real. Just more RWNJ propaganda.

Then prove it’s not real. No one gives a shit what you think or how you feel. Post up with some data to back your claim.

 

[LeftofLeft]

They forget that there is a North and South America along with a Central America...

May the most civilized and least corrupt America win.

 

[Crepitus]

Then prove it’s not real.

Are you really that dumb?

 

[Moonglow]

You think rape is funny? Does it bother you that rape and human trafficking from shit hole countries runs counter to American values?

American values were built upon smuggling, black market operations, sneak attacks and destruction of private property..

 

[LeftofLeft]

Are you really that dumb?

Are you really that lazy and feel entitled to no accountability?

 

[LeftofLeft]

American values were built upon smuggling, black market operations, sneak attacks and destruction of private property..

Give US examples.