Questioning The Definition of 'Religion'

[Penelope]

You silly little twat. Nobody is trying to justify 9/11, and even if the monsters who attacked us were Muslim, that doesn't make the entire Muslim religion, or all Muslims responsible for it. Your own link showed the FBI has determined Muslims are the 2nd largest group of victims of religiously motivated hate crimes. Your hateful crap isn't justified.

"....even if the monsters who attacked us were Muslim, that doesn't make the entire Muslim religion, or all Muslims responsible for it."

Quran 4:89: "They (infidels) desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper."

Quran 8:12: "Instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers;"

Quran 2:191: "... kill the disbelievers wherever we find them

Quran 22:19-22: "… for them (the unbelievers) garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods."

Quran 8:12: "Your Lord inspired the angels with the message: 'I will terrorize the unbelievers. Therefore smite them on their necks and every joint and incapacitate them. Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.'"

Qur'an:8:12 "I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle."

Quran 8:7: "Allah wished to confirm the truth by His words: 'Wipe the infidels out to the last.'"

Quran 8:59: "The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them. They are your enemy and Allah's enemy."

Quran 8:60: "Prepare against them whatever arms and cavalry you can muster that you may strike terror in the enemies of Allah, and others besides them not known to you."

Quran 9.29" "Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection."

Quran 47:4: "Strike off the heads of the disbelievers" and, after making a "wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives."

Hadith Sahih Muslim (41:6985): "Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: 'The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.'"

Quran 9:5: "When the sacred forbidden months for fighting are past, fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, torture them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."

Sura 3:151: "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the unbelievers for that they joined companions with Allah for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be the fire; and evil is the home of the wrong-doers!"

Sura 8:60: "Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power including steeds of war to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies of Allah and your enemies and others besides whom ye may not know but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah shall be repaid unto you and ye shall not be treated unjustly."

Tabari IX "Allah permits you to shut them (women) in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Quran."

Tabari I:280: "Allah said, 'It is My obligation to make Eve bleed once every month as she made this tree bleed. I must also make Eve stupid, although I created her intelligent.' Because Allah afflicted Eve, all of the women of this world menstruate and are stupid."

Ishaq:327: "Allah said, 'A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.'"

These quotations are not out of context. They are representative of dozens and dozens of other messages in the Islamic "holy" texts. Clearly, they have inspired the violent and hateful behavior of followers.

I know there are many peaceful Muslims who view them allegorically rather than literally. Yet, is it outside the bounds of civil public discourse to challenge such statements?

I think it would be irresponsible to ignore how the Quran instructs its followers.

Why not quote some OT verses while your at it. Or better yet some of the Talmud which is the real book for Jews.

"Why not quote some OT verses while your at it."

Because modern Jews and Christian have reformed, and treat same as allegory rather than contemporary mandates.

While that is true for some...perhaps most....Muslims...
Reza Aslan's view holds....
1. Reza Aslan(Persian:رضا اصلان‎‎,IPA: [ˈɾezɒː æsˈlɒːn]; born May 3, 1972) is anIranian-Americanauthor, commentator and religious scholar. He has written two books on religion:No god but God: The Origins, Evolution, and Future of IslamandZealot: The Life and Times of Jesus of Nazareth.

Aslan was born into a Shia Muslimfamily.[32]He converted toevangelical Christianityat the age of 15,[5]and converted back toIslamthe summer before attending Harvard.[6]"
Reza Aslan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


He explains his religion thus:
" For a kid raised in a motley family of lukewarm Muslim sand exuberant atheists,....

In Iran, the place of my birth, I was Muslim in much the way I was Persian. My religion and my ethnicity were mutual and linked.

After the Iranian revolution forced my family to flee our home, religion in general, and Islam in particular became taboo in our household. Islam was shorthand for every thing we had lost to the mullahs who now ruled Iran.





2. But....what you would like to hide...is this:
"Islam is a peaceful religion because most Muslims live peacefully and that only a "tiny minority of extremists" practice violence? That's like saying that White supremacy must be perfectly fine since only a tiny minority of racists ever hurt anyone. Neither does it explain why religious violence is largely endemic to Islam, despite the tremendous persecution of religious minorities in Muslim countries.

In truth, even a tiny minority of "1%" of Muslims worldwide translates to 15 million believers - which is hardly an insignificant number. However, the "minority" of Muslims who approve of terrorists, their goals, or their means of achieving them is much greater than this. In fact, it isn't even a true minority in some cases, depending on how goals and targets are defined. "Muslim Opinion Polls


Unfortunately...it is well more than 1%


What happens in Riyadh stays in Riyadh,... along with your hands.

Yes I have his book Zealot. While its true some depressed Muslims use weapons, Zionist and some Christians use money, when one is depressed such as the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza they become angry.

"... some depressed Muslims use weapons,Zionist and some Christians use money, when one is depressed such as the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza they become angry."

'Angry' equals the right to slaughter innocent human beings?

Really?



Using money...which the Supreme Court equated to free speech, is like killing people???
Here is an example of same:

"NEVE DEKALIM, Gaza Strip — Palestinians looted dozens of greenhouses on Tuesday, walking off with irrigation hoses, water pumps and plastic sheeting in a blow to fledgling efforts to reconstruct the Gaza Strip.

American Jewish donors had bought more than 3,000 greenhouses from Israeli settlers in Gaza for $14 million last month and transferred them to the Palestinian Authority. Former World Bank President James Wolfensohn, who brokered the deal, put up $500,000 of his own cash."
Looters strip Gaza greenhouses

First off the jewish settlements had no business in Gaza and maybe they didn't want to be indebted to Zionist. We have interfered so much in Arab countries its sickening. What Zionist are doing to Palestinians is sickening, so don't expect Palestinians to kiss up to the Zionist. They don't want to be owned like the West Bank.

 

[PoliticalChic]

"....even if the monsters who attacked us were Muslim, that doesn't make the entire Muslim religion, or all Muslims responsible for it."

Quran 4:89: "They (infidels) desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper."

Quran 8:12: "Instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers;"

Quran 2:191: "... kill the disbelievers wherever we find them

Quran 22:19-22: "… for them (the unbelievers) garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods."

Quran 8:12: "Your Lord inspired the angels with the message: 'I will terrorize the unbelievers. Therefore smite them on their necks and every joint and incapacitate them. Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.'"

Qur'an:8:12 "I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle."

Quran 8:7: "Allah wished to confirm the truth by His words: 'Wipe the infidels out to the last.'"

Quran 8:59: "The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them. They are your enemy and Allah's enemy."

Quran 8:60: "Prepare against them whatever arms and cavalry you can muster that you may strike terror in the enemies of Allah, and others besides them not known to you."

Quran 9.29" "Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection."

Quran 47:4: "Strike off the heads of the disbelievers" and, after making a "wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives."

Hadith Sahih Muslim (41:6985): "Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: 'The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.'"

Quran 9:5: "When the sacred forbidden months for fighting are past, fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, torture them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."

Sura 3:151: "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the unbelievers for that they joined companions with Allah for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be the fire; and evil is the home of the wrong-doers!"

Sura 8:60: "Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power including steeds of war to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies of Allah and your enemies and others besides whom ye may not know but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah shall be repaid unto you and ye shall not be treated unjustly."

Tabari IX "Allah permits you to shut them (women) in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Quran."

Tabari I:280: "Allah said, 'It is My obligation to make Eve bleed once every month as she made this tree bleed. I must also make Eve stupid, although I created her intelligent.' Because Allah afflicted Eve, all of the women of this world menstruate and are stupid."

Ishaq:327: "Allah said, 'A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.'"

These quotations are not out of context. They are representative of dozens and dozens of other messages in the Islamic "holy" texts. Clearly, they have inspired the violent and hateful behavior of followers.

I know there are many peaceful Muslims who view them allegorically rather than literally. Yet, is it outside the bounds of civil public discourse to challenge such statements?

I think it would be irresponsible to ignore how the Quran instructs its followers.

Why not quote some OT verses while your at it. Or better yet some of the Talmud which is the real book for Jews.

"Why not quote some OT verses while your at it."

Because modern Jews and Christian have reformed, and treat same as allegory rather than contemporary mandates.

While that is true for some...perhaps most....Muslims...
Reza Aslan's view holds....
1. Reza Aslan(Persian:رضا اصلان‎‎,IPA: [ˈɾezɒː æsˈlɒːn]; born May 3, 1972) is anIranian-Americanauthor, commentator and religious scholar. He has written two books on religion:No god but God: The Origins, Evolution, and Future of IslamandZealot: The Life and Times of Jesus of Nazareth.

Aslan was born into a Shia Muslimfamily.[32]He converted toevangelical Christianityat the age of 15,[5]and converted back toIslamthe summer before attending Harvard.[6]"
Reza Aslan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


He explains his religion thus:
" For a kid raised in a motley family of lukewarm Muslim sand exuberant atheists,....

In Iran, the place of my birth, I was Muslim in much the way I was Persian. My religion and my ethnicity were mutual and linked.

After the Iranian revolution forced my family to flee our home, religion in general, and Islam in particular became taboo in our household. Islam was shorthand for every thing we had lost to the mullahs who now ruled Iran.





2. But....what you would like to hide...is this:
"Islam is a peaceful religion because most Muslims live peacefully and that only a "tiny minority of extremists" practice violence? That's like saying that White supremacy must be perfectly fine since only a tiny minority of racists ever hurt anyone. Neither does it explain why religious violence is largely endemic to Islam, despite the tremendous persecution of religious minorities in Muslim countries.

In truth, even a tiny minority of "1%" of Muslims worldwide translates to 15 million believers - which is hardly an insignificant number. However, the "minority" of Muslims who approve of terrorists, their goals, or their means of achieving them is much greater than this. In fact, it isn't even a true minority in some cases, depending on how goals and targets are defined. "Muslim Opinion Polls


Unfortunately...it is well more than 1%


What happens in Riyadh stays in Riyadh,... along with your hands.

Yes I have his book Zealot. While its true some depressed Muslims use weapons, Zionist and some Christians use money, when one is depressed such as the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza they become angry.

"... some depressed Muslims use weapons,Zionist and some Christians use money, when one is depressed such as the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza they become angry."

'Angry' equals the right to slaughter innocent human beings?

Really?



Using money...which the Supreme Court equated to free speech, is like killing people???
Here is an example of same:

"NEVE DEKALIM, Gaza Strip — Palestinians looted dozens of greenhouses on Tuesday, walking off with irrigation hoses, water pumps and plastic sheeting in a blow to fledgling efforts to reconstruct the Gaza Strip.

American Jewish donors had bought more than 3,000 greenhouses from Israeli settlers in Gaza for $14 million last month and transferred them to the Palestinian Authority. Former World Bank President James Wolfensohn, who brokered the deal, put up $500,000 of his own cash."
Looters strip Gaza greenhouses

First off the jewish settlements had no business in Gaza and maybe they didn't want to be indebted to Zionist. We have interfered so much in Arab countries its sickening. What Zionist are doing to Palestinians is sickening, so don't expect Palestinians to kiss up to the Zionist. They don't want to be owned like the West Bank.

This is your response to Jews turning over $14 million in benefits to their enemies????

What are you...like, five years old???

 

[Penelope]

Why not quote some OT verses while your at it. Or better yet some of the Talmud which is the real book for Jews.

"Why not quote some OT verses while your at it."

Because modern Jews and Christian have reformed, and treat same as allegory rather than contemporary mandates.

While that is true for some...perhaps most....Muslims...
Reza Aslan's view holds....
1. Reza Aslan(Persian:رضا اصلان‎‎,IPA: [ˈɾezɒː æsˈlɒːn]; born May 3, 1972) is anIranian-Americanauthor, commentator and religious scholar. He has written two books on religion:No god but God: The Origins, Evolution, and Future of IslamandZealot: The Life and Times of Jesus of Nazareth.

Aslan was born into a Shia Muslimfamily.[32]He converted toevangelical Christianityat the age of 15,[5]and converted back toIslamthe summer before attending Harvard.[6]"
Reza Aslan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


He explains his religion thus:
" For a kid raised in a motley family of lukewarm Muslim sand exuberant atheists,....

In Iran, the place of my birth, I was Muslim in much the way I was Persian. My religion and my ethnicity were mutual and linked.

After the Iranian revolution forced my family to flee our home, religion in general, and Islam in particular became taboo in our household. Islam was shorthand for every thing we had lost to the mullahs who now ruled Iran.





2. But....what you would like to hide...is this:
"Islam is a peaceful religion because most Muslims live peacefully and that only a "tiny minority of extremists" practice violence? That's like saying that White supremacy must be perfectly fine since only a tiny minority of racists ever hurt anyone. Neither does it explain why religious violence is largely endemic to Islam, despite the tremendous persecution of religious minorities in Muslim countries.

In truth, even a tiny minority of "1%" of Muslims worldwide translates to 15 million believers - which is hardly an insignificant number. However, the "minority" of Muslims who approve of terrorists, their goals, or their means of achieving them is much greater than this. In fact, it isn't even a true minority in some cases, depending on how goals and targets are defined. "Muslim Opinion Polls


Unfortunately...it is well more than 1%


What happens in Riyadh stays in Riyadh,... along with your hands.

Yes I have his book Zealot. While its true some depressed Muslims use weapons, Zionist and some Christians use money, when one is depressed such as the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza they become angry.

"... some depressed Muslims use weapons,Zionist and some Christians use money, when one is depressed such as the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza they become angry."

'Angry' equals the right to slaughter innocent human beings?

Really?



Using money...which the Supreme Court equated to free speech, is like killing people???
Here is an example of same:

"NEVE DEKALIM, Gaza Strip — Palestinians looted dozens of greenhouses on Tuesday, walking off with irrigation hoses, water pumps and plastic sheeting in a blow to fledgling efforts to reconstruct the Gaza Strip.

American Jewish donors had bought more than 3,000 greenhouses from Israeli settlers in Gaza for $14 million last month and transferred them to the Palestinian Authority. Former World Bank President James Wolfensohn, who brokered the deal, put up $500,000 of his own cash."
Looters strip Gaza greenhouses

First off the jewish settlements had no business in Gaza and maybe they didn't want to be indebted to Zionist. We have interfered so much in Arab countries its sickening. What Zionist are doing to Palestinians is sickening, so don't expect Palestinians to kiss up to the Zionist. They don't want to be owned like the West Bank.

This is your response to Jews turning over $14 million in benefits to their enemies????

What are you...like, five years old???

Yes it is, now for the other side of the story:

As the date of the withdrawal approached with no deal in sight, however, the settlers began to destroy the greenhouses. The New York Times reported:



About half the greenhouses in the Israeli settlements in Gaza have already been dismantled by their owners, who have given up waiting to see if the government was going to come up with extra payment as an inducement to leave them behind, say senior officials working on the coordination of this summer's Israeli pullout from Gaza.(...)

Of the roughly 1,000 acres of agricultural land that were under greenhouses in the 21 Israeli settlements in Gaza, only 500 acres remain - creating significant doubts that the greenhouses could be handed over to the Palestinians as "a living business," the goal cited by the Israeli coordinator of the pullout, Eival Giladi.

Finally, a last-minute effort by American Jewish philantropists raised $14 million and the remainder of the greenhouses was bought and turned over to the Palestinians.

SNIP

As can be seen, the theft was carried out by individuals, and in no way was it encouraged by the Palestinian Authority. Quite on the contrary, there was a conscious PA effort to prevent the lootings, which was however hindered by lack of resources.

Two reflections arise from the stories above.

On the one hand, it's true that some of the greenhouses were destroyed by Palestinian individuals. There's nothing remarkable about that. Beggars can't be choosers, as the saying goes, and looting is what normally happens when two conditions are met: 1) an impoverished populace; and 2) a situation of lack of control by an established authority. Gazans stole the hardware and materials contained in the greenhouses not in a drive to erase the Jews' memory from the territory, but to satisfy their personal needs. There was a rationale to their theft.

The destruction of part of the greenhouses by the settlers, however, can only be explained by animosity. They spent time, effort and probably even money to dismantle the facilities so that the Palestinians wouldn't be able to use them. There's a big difference between he who damages property in order to derive a benefit and he who damages it only to harm another person.

The Hasbara Buster: The Gaza greenhouse effect

 

[PoliticalChic]

"Why not quote some OT verses while your at it."

Because modern Jews and Christian have reformed, and treat same as allegory rather than contemporary mandates.

While that is true for some...perhaps most....Muslims...
Reza Aslan's view holds....
1. Reza Aslan(Persian:رضا اصلان‎‎,IPA: [ˈɾezɒː æsˈlɒːn]; born May 3, 1972) is anIranian-Americanauthor, commentator and religious scholar. He has written two books on religion:No god but God: The Origins, Evolution, and Future of IslamandZealot: The Life and Times of Jesus of Nazareth.

Aslan was born into a Shia Muslimfamily.[32]He converted toevangelical Christianityat the age of 15,[5]and converted back toIslamthe summer before attending Harvard.[6]"
Reza Aslan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


He explains his religion thus:
" For a kid raised in a motley family of lukewarm Muslim sand exuberant atheists,....

In Iran, the place of my birth, I was Muslim in much the way I was Persian. My religion and my ethnicity were mutual and linked.

After the Iranian revolution forced my family to flee our home, religion in general, and Islam in particular became taboo in our household. Islam was shorthand for every thing we had lost to the mullahs who now ruled Iran.





2. But....what you would like to hide...is this:
"Islam is a peaceful religion because most Muslims live peacefully and that only a "tiny minority of extremists" practice violence? That's like saying that White supremacy must be perfectly fine since only a tiny minority of racists ever hurt anyone. Neither does it explain why religious violence is largely endemic to Islam, despite the tremendous persecution of religious minorities in Muslim countries.

In truth, even a tiny minority of "1%" of Muslims worldwide translates to 15 million believers - which is hardly an insignificant number. However, the "minority" of Muslims who approve of terrorists, their goals, or their means of achieving them is much greater than this. In fact, it isn't even a true minority in some cases, depending on how goals and targets are defined. "Muslim Opinion Polls


Unfortunately...it is well more than 1%


What happens in Riyadh stays in Riyadh,... along with your hands.

Yes I have his book Zealot. While its true some depressed Muslims use weapons, Zionist and some Christians use money, when one is depressed such as the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza they become angry.

"... some depressed Muslims use weapons,Zionist and some Christians use money, when one is depressed such as the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza they become angry."

'Angry' equals the right to slaughter innocent human beings?

Really?



Using money...which the Supreme Court equated to free speech, is like killing people???
Here is an example of same:

"NEVE DEKALIM, Gaza Strip — Palestinians looted dozens of greenhouses on Tuesday, walking off with irrigation hoses, water pumps and plastic sheeting in a blow to fledgling efforts to reconstruct the Gaza Strip.

American Jewish donors had bought more than 3,000 greenhouses from Israeli settlers in Gaza for $14 million last month and transferred them to the Palestinian Authority. Former World Bank President James Wolfensohn, who brokered the deal, put up $500,000 of his own cash."
Looters strip Gaza greenhouses

First off the jewish settlements had no business in Gaza and maybe they didn't want to be indebted to Zionist. We have interfered so much in Arab countries its sickening. What Zionist are doing to Palestinians is sickening, so don't expect Palestinians to kiss up to the Zionist. They don't want to be owned like the West Bank.

This is your response to Jews turning over $14 million in benefits to their enemies????

What are you...like, five years old???

Yes it is, now for the other side of the story:

As the date of the withdrawal approached with no deal in sight, however, the settlers began to destroy the greenhouses. The New York Times reported:



About half the greenhouses in the Israeli settlements in Gaza have already been dismantled by their owners, who have given up waiting to see if the government was going to come up with extra payment as an inducement to leave them behind, say senior officials working on the coordination of this summer's Israeli pullout from Gaza.(...)

Of the roughly 1,000 acres of agricultural land that were under greenhouses in the 21 Israeli settlements in Gaza, only 500 acres remain - creating significant doubts that the greenhouses could be handed over to the Palestinians as "a living business," the goal cited by the Israeli coordinator of the pullout, Eival Giladi.

Finally, a last-minute effort by American Jewish philantropists raised $14 million and the remainder of the greenhouses was bought and turned over to the Palestinians.

SNIP

As can be seen, the theft was carried out by individuals, and in no way was it encouraged by the Palestinian Authority. Quite on the contrary, there was a conscious PA effort to prevent the lootings, which was however hindered by lack of resources.

Two reflections arise from the stories above.

On the one hand, it's true that some of the greenhouses were destroyed by Palestinian individuals. There's nothing remarkable about that. Beggars can't be choosers, as the saying goes, and looting is what normally happens when two conditions are met: 1) an impoverished populace; and 2) a situation of lack of control by an established authority. Gazans stole the hardware and materials contained in the greenhouses not in a drive to erase the Jews' memory from the territory, but to satisfy their personal needs. There was a rationale to their theft.

The destruction of part of the greenhouses by the settlers, however, can only be explained by animosity. They spent time, effort and probably even money to dismantle the facilities so that the Palestinians wouldn't be able to use them. There's a big difference between he who damages property in order to derive a benefit and he who damages it only to harm another person.

The Hasbara Buster: The Gaza greenhouse effect

Nonsense.


You posted this:
"First off the jewish settlements had no business in Gaza and maybe they didn't want to be indebted to Zionist. We have interfered so much in Arab countries its sickening. What Zionist are doing to Palestinians is sickening, so don't expect Palestinians to kiss up to the Zionist. They don't want to be owned like the West Bank."


And...there's this:

A Palestinian carries a plastic roll he took Tuesday from a greenhouse, background, at the evacuated Jewish settlement of Neve Dekalim in the Gaza Strip.


The Palestinian leader is under intense pressure from his people and the international community to stop the growing lawlessness in Gaza, where rival militant groups are jockeying for power. As Abbas spoke, hundreds of masked Hamas gunmen wielding rifles and grenade launchers paraded through the streets of a nearby refugee camp.



The greenhouses are a centerpiece of Palestinian plans for rebuilding Gaza after 38 years of Israeli occupation. The Palestinian Authority hopes the high-tech greenhouses left by the Israelis will provide jobs and export income for Gaza’s shattered economy."
Ibid.

 

[BULLDOG]

Christians being persecuted by Muslims in Germany is no worse than Muslims being persecuted by Christians here. The difference is that we claim to be a shining example of .justice, and equality. Germany allowing that doesn't absolve us of our hateful actions, and doesn't mean we should abandon our standards.

"...Muslims being persecuted by Christians here."

These can only be the words of an Obama supporter.

Can you give examples and commensurate numbers of same?


You might want to include this:
Religious bias
Of the 1,340 victims of an anti-religious hate crime:

• 62.4 percent were victims of an offender’s anti-Jewish bias.
• 11.6 percent were victims of an anti-Islamic bias. Victims

According to your link, and your post, anti-Islamic bias victims are the second largest group of victims in the US based on religion, exceeded only by anti-Jewish bias victims. You answered your own question, and disproved your own statement with your own link. Congratulations.

Now...let's consider your cognitive dissonance...

You may have heard of 9/11.....
You may not be aware of the reason for Homeland Security and long lines of checking at airports
Or Gitmo....
Or the OP

but....once you've educated yourself to the above.....not that Jews are not involved in any of those....and yet the victimization of Muslims is minuscule in comparison.
Don't be a dunce you whole life.....take a day off.

You silly little twat. Nobody is trying to justify 9/11, and even if the monsters who attacked us were Muslim, that doesn't make the entire Muslim religion, or all Muslims responsible for it. Your own link showed the FBI has determined Muslims are the 2nd largest group of victims of religiously motivated hate crimes. Your hateful crap isn't justified.

"....even if the monsters who attacked us were Muslim, that doesn't make the entire Muslim religion, or all Muslims responsible for it."

Quran 4:89: "They (infidels) desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper."

Quran 8:12: "Instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers;"

Quran 2:191: "... kill the disbelievers wherever we find them

Quran 22:19-22: "… for them (the unbelievers) garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods."

Quran 8:12: "Your Lord inspired the angels with the message: 'I will terrorize the unbelievers. Therefore smite them on their necks and every joint and incapacitate them. Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.'"

Qur'an:8:12 "I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle."

Quran 8:7: "Allah wished to confirm the truth by His words: 'Wipe the infidels out to the last.'"

Quran 8:59: "The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them. They are your enemy and Allah's enemy."

Quran 8:60: "Prepare against them whatever arms and cavalry you can muster that you may strike terror in the enemies of Allah, and others besides them not known to you."

Quran 9.29" "Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection."

Quran 47:4: "Strike off the heads of the disbelievers" and, after making a "wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives."

Hadith Sahih Muslim (41:6985): "Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: 'The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.'"

Quran 9:5: "When the sacred forbidden months for fighting are past, fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, torture them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."

Sura 3:151: "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the unbelievers for that they joined companions with Allah for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be the fire; and evil is the home of the wrong-doers!"

Sura 8:60: "Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power including steeds of war to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies of Allah and your enemies and others besides whom ye may not know but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah shall be repaid unto you and ye shall not be treated unjustly."

Tabari IX "Allah permits you to shut them (women) in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Quran."

Tabari I:280: "Allah said, 'It is My obligation to make Eve bleed once every month as she made this tree bleed. I must also make Eve stupid, although I created her intelligent.' Because Allah afflicted Eve, all of the women of this world menstruate and are stupid."

Ishaq:327: "Allah said, 'A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.'"

These quotations are not out of context. They are representative of dozens and dozens of other messages in the Islamic "holy" texts. Clearly, they have inspired the violent and hateful behavior of followers.

I know there are many peaceful Muslims who view them allegorically rather than literally. Yet, is it outside the bounds of civil public discourse to challenge such statements?

I think it would be irresponsible to ignore how the Quran instructs its followers.

You know there is a similar list of verses from the Bible that sound just as brutal and violent . You lie when you claim you are challenging archaic verses. You aren't. You are accusing an entire religion of having murder as their main goal. Christianity has no lack of similar verses, but judging an entire religion by that does not give an accurate description of it's followers. Muslims I know, and I would go so far as to say most Muslims, don't consider the ones who take those verses literally as true adherents of their faith.
West-borough Baptist Church can cite verses to justify every hateful action they have taken, but that doesn't make them representatives of Christianity any more than the terrorists are representatives of Islam.

 

[PoliticalChic]

"...Muslims being persecuted by Christians here."

These can only be the words of an Obama supporter.

Can you give examples and commensurate numbers of same?


You might want to include this:
Religious bias
Of the 1,340 victims of an anti-religious hate crime:

• 62.4 percent were victims of an offender’s anti-Jewish bias.
• 11.6 percent were victims of an anti-Islamic bias. Victims

According to your link, and your post, anti-Islamic bias victims are the second largest group of victims in the US based on religion, exceeded only by anti-Jewish bias victims. You answered your own question, and disproved your own statement with your own link. Congratulations.

Now...let's consider your cognitive dissonance...

You may have heard of 9/11.....
You may not be aware of the reason for Homeland Security and long lines of checking at airports
Or Gitmo....
Or the OP

but....once you've educated yourself to the above.....not that Jews are not involved in any of those....and yet the victimization of Muslims is minuscule in comparison.
Don't be a dunce you whole life.....take a day off.

You silly little twat. Nobody is trying to justify 9/11, and even if the monsters who attacked us were Muslim, that doesn't make the entire Muslim religion, or all Muslims responsible for it. Your own link showed the FBI has determined Muslims are the 2nd largest group of victims of religiously motivated hate crimes. Your hateful crap isn't justified.

"....even if the monsters who attacked us were Muslim, that doesn't make the entire Muslim religion, or all Muslims responsible for it."

Quran 4:89: "They (infidels) desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper."

Quran 8:12: "Instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers;"

Quran 2:191: "... kill the disbelievers wherever we find them

Quran 22:19-22: "… for them (the unbelievers) garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods."

Quran 8:12: "Your Lord inspired the angels with the message: 'I will terrorize the unbelievers. Therefore smite them on their necks and every joint and incapacitate them. Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.'"

Qur'an:8:12 "I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle."

Quran 8:7: "Allah wished to confirm the truth by His words: 'Wipe the infidels out to the last.'"

Quran 8:59: "The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them. They are your enemy and Allah's enemy."

Quran 8:60: "Prepare against them whatever arms and cavalry you can muster that you may strike terror in the enemies of Allah, and others besides them not known to you."

Quran 9.29" "Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection."

Quran 47:4: "Strike off the heads of the disbelievers" and, after making a "wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives."

Hadith Sahih Muslim (41:6985): "Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: 'The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.'"

Quran 9:5: "When the sacred forbidden months for fighting are past, fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, torture them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."

Sura 3:151: "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the unbelievers for that they joined companions with Allah for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be the fire; and evil is the home of the wrong-doers!"

Sura 8:60: "Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power including steeds of war to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies of Allah and your enemies and others besides whom ye may not know but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah shall be repaid unto you and ye shall not be treated unjustly."

Tabari IX "Allah permits you to shut them (women) in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Quran."

Tabari I:280: "Allah said, 'It is My obligation to make Eve bleed once every month as she made this tree bleed. I must also make Eve stupid, although I created her intelligent.' Because Allah afflicted Eve, all of the women of this world menstruate and are stupid."

Ishaq:327: "Allah said, 'A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.'"

These quotations are not out of context. They are representative of dozens and dozens of other messages in the Islamic "holy" texts. Clearly, they have inspired the violent and hateful behavior of followers.

I know there are many peaceful Muslims who view them allegorically rather than literally. Yet, is it outside the bounds of civil public discourse to challenge such statements?

I think it would be irresponsible to ignore how the Quran instructs its followers.

You know there is a similar list of verses from the Bible that sound just as brutal and violent . You lie when you claim you are challenging archaic verses. You aren't. You are accusing an entire religion of having murder as their main goal. Christianity has no lack of similar verses, but judging an entire religion by that does not give an accurate description of it's followers. Muslims I know, and I would go so far as to say most Muslims, don't consider the ones who take those verses literally as true adherents of their faith.
West-borough Baptist Church can cite verses to justify every hateful action they have taken, but that doesn't make them representatives of Christianity any more than the terrorists are representatives of Islam.

1. I never lie.
2. Religious Muslims use the Q'ran as their guide....

3. This Q'ran:

Bukhari:V4B52N220
“Allah’s Apostle said, ‘I have been made victorious with terror.’”


Qur’an:8:12

“I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle.”

Qur’an:8:57

“If you gain mastery over them in battle, inflict such a defeat as would terrorize them, so that they would learn a lesson and be warned.”

Ishaq:326

“If you come upon them, deal so forcibly as to terrify those who would follow, that they may be warned. Make a severe example of them by terrorizing Allah’s enemies.”

Qur’an:8:67

“It is not fitting for any prophet to have prisoners until he has made a great slaughtered in the land.”

Ishaq:588

“When the Apostle descends on your land none of your people will be left when he leaves.”

Tabari IX:42

“We have been dealt a situation from which there is no escape. You have seen what Muhammad has done. Arabs have submitted to him and we do not have the strength to fight. You know that no herd is safe from him. And no one even dares go outside for fear of being terrorized.”

Ishaq:326

“Allah said, ‘No Prophet before Muhammad took booty from his enemy nor prisoners for ransom.’ Muhammad said, ‘I was made victorious with terror. The earth was made a place for me to clean. I was given the most powerful words. Booty was made lawful for me. I was given the power to intercede. These five privileges were awarded to no prophet before me.’”

Ishaq:327

“Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.’”

Qur’an:7:3

“Little do you remember My warning. How many towns have We destroyed as a raid by night? Our punishment took them suddenly while they slept for their afternoon rest. Our terror came to them; Our punishment overtook them.”

Qur'an 4:15 "If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four witnesses from amongst you against them; if they testify, confine them to houses until death [by starvation] claims them."




There is this associated more with Islam and not with any other 'religion:'Pederasty, child brides, honor killings, clitorectomies, stonings, wife beatings and blowing up every innocent they can find.


Turns out you're the liar, huh?

 

[BULLDOG]

According to your link, and your post, anti-Islamic bias victims are the second largest group of victims in the US based on religion, exceeded only by anti-Jewish bias victims. You answered your own question, and disproved your own statement with your own link. Congratulations.

Now...let's consider your cognitive dissonance...

You may have heard of 9/11.....
You may not be aware of the reason for Homeland Security and long lines of checking at airports
Or Gitmo....
Or the OP

but....once you've educated yourself to the above.....not that Jews are not involved in any of those....and yet the victimization of Muslims is minuscule in comparison.
Don't be a dunce you whole life.....take a day off.

You silly little twat. Nobody is trying to justify 9/11, and even if the monsters who attacked us were Muslim, that doesn't make the entire Muslim religion, or all Muslims responsible for it. Your own link showed the FBI has determined Muslims are the 2nd largest group of victims of religiously motivated hate crimes. Your hateful crap isn't justified.

"....even if the monsters who attacked us were Muslim, that doesn't make the entire Muslim religion, or all Muslims responsible for it."

Quran 4:89: "They (infidels) desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper."

Quran 8:12: "Instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers;"

Quran 2:191: "... kill the disbelievers wherever we find them

Quran 22:19-22: "… for them (the unbelievers) garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods."

Quran 8:12: "Your Lord inspired the angels with the message: 'I will terrorize the unbelievers. Therefore smite them on their necks and every joint and incapacitate them. Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.'"

Qur'an:8:12 "I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle."

Quran 8:7: "Allah wished to confirm the truth by His words: 'Wipe the infidels out to the last.'"

Quran 8:59: "The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them. They are your enemy and Allah's enemy."

Quran 8:60: "Prepare against them whatever arms and cavalry you can muster that you may strike terror in the enemies of Allah, and others besides them not known to you."

Quran 9.29" "Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection."

Quran 47:4: "Strike off the heads of the disbelievers" and, after making a "wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives."

Hadith Sahih Muslim (41:6985): "Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: 'The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.'"

Quran 9:5: "When the sacred forbidden months for fighting are past, fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, torture them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."

Sura 3:151: "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the unbelievers for that they joined companions with Allah for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be the fire; and evil is the home of the wrong-doers!"

Sura 8:60: "Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power including steeds of war to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies of Allah and your enemies and others besides whom ye may not know but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah shall be repaid unto you and ye shall not be treated unjustly."

Tabari IX "Allah permits you to shut them (women) in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Quran."

Tabari I:280: "Allah said, 'It is My obligation to make Eve bleed once every month as she made this tree bleed. I must also make Eve stupid, although I created her intelligent.' Because Allah afflicted Eve, all of the women of this world menstruate and are stupid."

Ishaq:327: "Allah said, 'A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.'"

These quotations are not out of context. They are representative of dozens and dozens of other messages in the Islamic "holy" texts. Clearly, they have inspired the violent and hateful behavior of followers.

I know there are many peaceful Muslims who view them allegorically rather than literally. Yet, is it outside the bounds of civil public discourse to challenge such statements?

I think it would be irresponsible to ignore how the Quran instructs its followers.

You know there is a similar list of verses from the Bible that sound just as brutal and violent . You lie when you claim you are challenging archaic verses. You aren't. You are accusing an entire religion of having murder as their main goal. Christianity has no lack of similar verses, but judging an entire religion by that does not give an accurate description of it's followers. Muslims I know, and I would go so far as to say most Muslims, don't consider the ones who take those verses literally as true adherents of their faith.
West-borough Baptist Church can cite verses to justify every hateful action they have taken, but that doesn't make them representatives of Christianity any more than the terrorists are representatives of Islam.

1. I never lie.
2. Religious Muslims use the Q'ran as their guide....

3. This Q'ran:

Bukhari:V4B52N220
“Allah’s Apostle said, ‘I have been made victorious with terror.’”


Qur’an:8:12

“I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle.”

Qur’an:8:57

“If you gain mastery over them in battle, inflict such a defeat as would terrorize them, so that they would learn a lesson and be warned.”

Ishaq:326

“If you come upon them, deal so forcibly as to terrify those who would follow, that they may be warned. Make a severe example of them by terrorizing Allah’s enemies.”

Qur’an:8:67

“It is not fitting for any prophet to have prisoners until he has made a great slaughtered in the land.”

Ishaq:588

“When the Apostle descends on your land none of your people will be left when he leaves.”

Tabari IX:42

“We have been dealt a situation from which there is no escape. You have seen what Muhammad has done. Arabs have submitted to him and we do not have the strength to fight. You know that no herd is safe from him. And no one even dares go outside for fear of being terrorized.”

Ishaq:326

“Allah said, ‘No Prophet before Muhammad took booty from his enemy nor prisoners for ransom.’ Muhammad said, ‘I was made victorious with terror. The earth was made a place for me to clean. I was given the most powerful words. Booty was made lawful for me. I was given the power to intercede. These five privileges were awarded to no prophet before me.’”

Ishaq:327

“Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.’”

Qur’an:7:3

“Little do you remember My warning. How many towns have We destroyed as a raid by night? Our punishment took them suddenly while they slept for their afternoon rest. Our terror came to them; Our punishment overtook them.”

Qur'an 4:15 "If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four witnesses from amongst you against them; if they testify, confine them to houses until death [by starvation] claims them."




There is this associated more with Islam and not with any other 'religion:'Pederasty, child brides, honor killings, clitorectomies, stonings, wife beatings and blowing up every innocent they can find.


Turns out you're the liar, huh?

Religious Christians use the Bible as their guide. Again, I'm not going to go to the trouble of listing all the heinous stuff in there, because we both know it's more than enough to match any list from the Koran that you might produce. Why don't you point out where I lied? You can hate Muslims all you want. Just don't expect our laws to reflect your bigotry.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Now...let's consider your cognitive dissonance...

You may have heard of 9/11.....
You may not be aware of the reason for Homeland Security and long lines of checking at airports
Or Gitmo....
Or the OP

but....once you've educated yourself to the above.....not that Jews are not involved in any of those....and yet the victimization of Muslims is minuscule in comparison.
Don't be a dunce you whole life.....take a day off.

You silly little twat. Nobody is trying to justify 9/11, and even if the monsters who attacked us were Muslim, that doesn't make the entire Muslim religion, or all Muslims responsible for it. Your own link showed the FBI has determined Muslims are the 2nd largest group of victims of religiously motivated hate crimes. Your hateful crap isn't justified.

"....even if the monsters who attacked us were Muslim, that doesn't make the entire Muslim religion, or all Muslims responsible for it."

Quran 4:89: "They (infidels) desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper."

Quran 8:12: "Instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers;"

Quran 2:191: "... kill the disbelievers wherever we find them

Quran 22:19-22: "… for them (the unbelievers) garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods."

Quran 8:12: "Your Lord inspired the angels with the message: 'I will terrorize the unbelievers. Therefore smite them on their necks and every joint and incapacitate them. Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.'"

Qur'an:8:12 "I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle."

Quran 8:7: "Allah wished to confirm the truth by His words: 'Wipe the infidels out to the last.'"

Quran 8:59: "The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them. They are your enemy and Allah's enemy."

Quran 8:60: "Prepare against them whatever arms and cavalry you can muster that you may strike terror in the enemies of Allah, and others besides them not known to you."

Quran 9.29" "Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection."

Quran 47:4: "Strike off the heads of the disbelievers" and, after making a "wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives."

Hadith Sahih Muslim (41:6985): "Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: 'The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.'"

Quran 9:5: "When the sacred forbidden months for fighting are past, fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, torture them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."

Sura 3:151: "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the unbelievers for that they joined companions with Allah for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be the fire; and evil is the home of the wrong-doers!"

Sura 8:60: "Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power including steeds of war to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies of Allah and your enemies and others besides whom ye may not know but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah shall be repaid unto you and ye shall not be treated unjustly."

Tabari IX "Allah permits you to shut them (women) in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Quran."

Tabari I:280: "Allah said, 'It is My obligation to make Eve bleed once every month as she made this tree bleed. I must also make Eve stupid, although I created her intelligent.' Because Allah afflicted Eve, all of the women of this world menstruate and are stupid."

Ishaq:327: "Allah said, 'A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.'"

These quotations are not out of context. They are representative of dozens and dozens of other messages in the Islamic "holy" texts. Clearly, they have inspired the violent and hateful behavior of followers.

I know there are many peaceful Muslims who view them allegorically rather than literally. Yet, is it outside the bounds of civil public discourse to challenge such statements?

I think it would be irresponsible to ignore how the Quran instructs its followers.

You know there is a similar list of verses from the Bible that sound just as brutal and violent . You lie when you claim you are challenging archaic verses. You aren't. You are accusing an entire religion of having murder as their main goal. Christianity has no lack of similar verses, but judging an entire religion by that does not give an accurate description of it's followers. Muslims I know, and I would go so far as to say most Muslims, don't consider the ones who take those verses literally as true adherents of their faith.
West-borough Baptist Church can cite verses to justify every hateful action they have taken, but that doesn't make them representatives of Christianity any more than the terrorists are representatives of Islam.

1. I never lie.
2. Religious Muslims use the Q'ran as their guide....

3. This Q'ran:

Bukhari:V4B52N220
“Allah’s Apostle said, ‘I have been made victorious with terror.’”


Qur’an:8:12

“I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle.”

Qur’an:8:57

“If you gain mastery over them in battle, inflict such a defeat as would terrorize them, so that they would learn a lesson and be warned.”

Ishaq:326

“If you come upon them, deal so forcibly as to terrify those who would follow, that they may be warned. Make a severe example of them by terrorizing Allah’s enemies.”

Qur’an:8:67

“It is not fitting for any prophet to have prisoners until he has made a great slaughtered in the land.”

Ishaq:588

“When the Apostle descends on your land none of your people will be left when he leaves.”

Tabari IX:42

“We have been dealt a situation from which there is no escape. You have seen what Muhammad has done. Arabs have submitted to him and we do not have the strength to fight. You know that no herd is safe from him. And no one even dares go outside for fear of being terrorized.”

Ishaq:326

“Allah said, ‘No Prophet before Muhammad took booty from his enemy nor prisoners for ransom.’ Muhammad said, ‘I was made victorious with terror. The earth was made a place for me to clean. I was given the most powerful words. Booty was made lawful for me. I was given the power to intercede. These five privileges were awarded to no prophet before me.’”

Ishaq:327

“Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.’”

Qur’an:7:3

“Little do you remember My warning. How many towns have We destroyed as a raid by night? Our punishment took them suddenly while they slept for their afternoon rest. Our terror came to them; Our punishment overtook them.”

Qur'an 4:15 "If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four witnesses from amongst you against them; if they testify, confine them to houses until death [by starvation] claims them."




There is this associated more with Islam and not with any other 'religion:'Pederasty, child brides, honor killings, clitorectomies, stonings, wife beatings and blowing up every innocent they can find.


Turns out you're the liar, huh?

Religious Christians use the Bible as their guide. Again, I'm not going to go to the trouble of listing all the heinous stuff in there, because we both know it's more than enough to match any list from the Koran that you might produce. Why don't you point out where I lied? You can hate Muslims all you want. Just don't expect our laws to reflect your bigotry.

You are clearly one of those easily led fools.....i.e., what keeps Democrats in power.
here is this associated more with Islam and not with any other 'religion:'Pederasty, child brides, honor killings, clitorectomies, stonings, wife beatings and blowing up every innocent they can find.

 

[BULLDOG]

You silly little twat. Nobody is trying to justify 9/11, and even if the monsters who attacked us were Muslim, that doesn't make the entire Muslim religion, or all Muslims responsible for it. Your own link showed the FBI has determined Muslims are the 2nd largest group of victims of religiously motivated hate crimes. Your hateful crap isn't justified.

"....even if the monsters who attacked us were Muslim, that doesn't make the entire Muslim religion, or all Muslims responsible for it."

Quran 4:89: "They (infidels) desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper."

Quran 8:12: "Instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers;"

Quran 2:191: "... kill the disbelievers wherever we find them

Quran 22:19-22: "… for them (the unbelievers) garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods."

Quran 8:12: "Your Lord inspired the angels with the message: 'I will terrorize the unbelievers. Therefore smite them on their necks and every joint and incapacitate them. Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.'"

Qur'an:8:12 "I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle."

Quran 8:7: "Allah wished to confirm the truth by His words: 'Wipe the infidels out to the last.'"

Quran 8:59: "The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them. They are your enemy and Allah's enemy."

Quran 8:60: "Prepare against them whatever arms and cavalry you can muster that you may strike terror in the enemies of Allah, and others besides them not known to you."

Quran 9.29" "Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection."

Quran 47:4: "Strike off the heads of the disbelievers" and, after making a "wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives."

Hadith Sahih Muslim (41:6985): "Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: 'The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.'"

Quran 9:5: "When the sacred forbidden months for fighting are past, fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, torture them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."

Sura 3:151: "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the unbelievers for that they joined companions with Allah for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be the fire; and evil is the home of the wrong-doers!"

Sura 8:60: "Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power including steeds of war to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies of Allah and your enemies and others besides whom ye may not know but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah shall be repaid unto you and ye shall not be treated unjustly."

Tabari IX "Allah permits you to shut them (women) in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Quran."

Tabari I:280: "Allah said, 'It is My obligation to make Eve bleed once every month as she made this tree bleed. I must also make Eve stupid, although I created her intelligent.' Because Allah afflicted Eve, all of the women of this world menstruate and are stupid."

Ishaq:327: "Allah said, 'A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.'"

These quotations are not out of context. They are representative of dozens and dozens of other messages in the Islamic "holy" texts. Clearly, they have inspired the violent and hateful behavior of followers.

I know there are many peaceful Muslims who view them allegorically rather than literally. Yet, is it outside the bounds of civil public discourse to challenge such statements?

I think it would be irresponsible to ignore how the Quran instructs its followers.

You know there is a similar list of verses from the Bible that sound just as brutal and violent . You lie when you claim you are challenging archaic verses. You aren't. You are accusing an entire religion of having murder as their main goal. Christianity has no lack of similar verses, but judging an entire religion by that does not give an accurate description of it's followers. Muslims I know, and I would go so far as to say most Muslims, don't consider the ones who take those verses literally as true adherents of their faith.
West-borough Baptist Church can cite verses to justify every hateful action they have taken, but that doesn't make them representatives of Christianity any more than the terrorists are representatives of Islam.

1. I never lie.
2. Religious Muslims use the Q'ran as their guide....

3. This Q'ran:

Bukhari:V4B52N220
“Allah’s Apostle said, ‘I have been made victorious with terror.’”


Qur’an:8:12

“I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle.”

Qur’an:8:57

“If you gain mastery over them in battle, inflict such a defeat as would terrorize them, so that they would learn a lesson and be warned.”

Ishaq:326

“If you come upon them, deal so forcibly as to terrify those who would follow, that they may be warned. Make a severe example of them by terrorizing Allah’s enemies.”

Qur’an:8:67

“It is not fitting for any prophet to have prisoners until he has made a great slaughtered in the land.”

Ishaq:588

“When the Apostle descends on your land none of your people will be left when he leaves.”

Tabari IX:42

“We have been dealt a situation from which there is no escape. You have seen what Muhammad has done. Arabs have submitted to him and we do not have the strength to fight. You know that no herd is safe from him. And no one even dares go outside for fear of being terrorized.”

Ishaq:326

“Allah said, ‘No Prophet before Muhammad took booty from his enemy nor prisoners for ransom.’ Muhammad said, ‘I was made victorious with terror. The earth was made a place for me to clean. I was given the most powerful words. Booty was made lawful for me. I was given the power to intercede. These five privileges were awarded to no prophet before me.’”

Ishaq:327

“Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.’”

Qur’an:7:3

“Little do you remember My warning. How many towns have We destroyed as a raid by night? Our punishment took them suddenly while they slept for their afternoon rest. Our terror came to them; Our punishment overtook them.”

Qur'an 4:15 "If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four witnesses from amongst you against them; if they testify, confine them to houses until death [by starvation] claims them."




There is this associated more with Islam and not with any other 'religion:'Pederasty, child brides, honor killings, clitorectomies, stonings, wife beatings and blowing up every innocent they can find.


Turns out you're the liar, huh?

Religious Christians use the Bible as their guide. Again, I'm not going to go to the trouble of listing all the heinous stuff in there, because we both know it's more than enough to match any list from the Koran that you might produce. Why don't you point out where I lied? You can hate Muslims all you want. Just don't expect our laws to reflect your bigotry.

You are clearly one of those easily led fools.....i.e., what keeps Democrats in power.
here is this associated more with Islam and not with any other 'religion:'Pederasty, child brides, honor killings, clitorectomies, stonings, wife beatings and blowing up every innocent they can find.

Making nasty accusations doesn't prove anything.

 

[PoliticalChic]

"....even if the monsters who attacked us were Muslim, that doesn't make the entire Muslim religion, or all Muslims responsible for it."

Quran 4:89: "They (infidels) desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper."

Quran 8:12: "Instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers;"

Quran 2:191: "... kill the disbelievers wherever we find them

Quran 22:19-22: "… for them (the unbelievers) garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods."

Quran 8:12: "Your Lord inspired the angels with the message: 'I will terrorize the unbelievers. Therefore smite them on their necks and every joint and incapacitate them. Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.'"

Qur'an:8:12 "I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle."

Quran 8:7: "Allah wished to confirm the truth by His words: 'Wipe the infidels out to the last.'"

Quran 8:59: "The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them. They are your enemy and Allah's enemy."

Quran 8:60: "Prepare against them whatever arms and cavalry you can muster that you may strike terror in the enemies of Allah, and others besides them not known to you."

Quran 9.29" "Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection."

Quran 47:4: "Strike off the heads of the disbelievers" and, after making a "wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives."

Hadith Sahih Muslim (41:6985): "Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: 'The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.'"

Quran 9:5: "When the sacred forbidden months for fighting are past, fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, torture them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."

Sura 3:151: "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the unbelievers for that they joined companions with Allah for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be the fire; and evil is the home of the wrong-doers!"

Sura 8:60: "Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power including steeds of war to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies of Allah and your enemies and others besides whom ye may not know but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah shall be repaid unto you and ye shall not be treated unjustly."

Tabari IX "Allah permits you to shut them (women) in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Quran."

Tabari I:280: "Allah said, 'It is My obligation to make Eve bleed once every month as she made this tree bleed. I must also make Eve stupid, although I created her intelligent.' Because Allah afflicted Eve, all of the women of this world menstruate and are stupid."

Ishaq:327: "Allah said, 'A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.'"

These quotations are not out of context. They are representative of dozens and dozens of other messages in the Islamic "holy" texts. Clearly, they have inspired the violent and hateful behavior of followers.

I know there are many peaceful Muslims who view them allegorically rather than literally. Yet, is it outside the bounds of civil public discourse to challenge such statements?

I think it would be irresponsible to ignore how the Quran instructs its followers.

You know there is a similar list of verses from the Bible that sound just as brutal and violent . You lie when you claim you are challenging archaic verses. You aren't. You are accusing an entire religion of having murder as their main goal. Christianity has no lack of similar verses, but judging an entire religion by that does not give an accurate description of it's followers. Muslims I know, and I would go so far as to say most Muslims, don't consider the ones who take those verses literally as true adherents of their faith.
West-borough Baptist Church can cite verses to justify every hateful action they have taken, but that doesn't make them representatives of Christianity any more than the terrorists are representatives of Islam.

1. I never lie.
2. Religious Muslims use the Q'ran as their guide....

3. This Q'ran:

Bukhari:V4B52N220
“Allah’s Apostle said, ‘I have been made victorious with terror.’”


Qur’an:8:12

“I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle.”

Qur’an:8:57

“If you gain mastery over them in battle, inflict such a defeat as would terrorize them, so that they would learn a lesson and be warned.”

Ishaq:326

“If you come upon them, deal so forcibly as to terrify those who would follow, that they may be warned. Make a severe example of them by terrorizing Allah’s enemies.”

Qur’an:8:67

“It is not fitting for any prophet to have prisoners until he has made a great slaughtered in the land.”

Ishaq:588

“When the Apostle descends on your land none of your people will be left when he leaves.”

Tabari IX:42

“We have been dealt a situation from which there is no escape. You have seen what Muhammad has done. Arabs have submitted to him and we do not have the strength to fight. You know that no herd is safe from him. And no one even dares go outside for fear of being terrorized.”

Ishaq:326

“Allah said, ‘No Prophet before Muhammad took booty from his enemy nor prisoners for ransom.’ Muhammad said, ‘I was made victorious with terror. The earth was made a place for me to clean. I was given the most powerful words. Booty was made lawful for me. I was given the power to intercede. These five privileges were awarded to no prophet before me.’”

Ishaq:327

“Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.’”

Qur’an:7:3

“Little do you remember My warning. How many towns have We destroyed as a raid by night? Our punishment took them suddenly while they slept for their afternoon rest. Our terror came to them; Our punishment overtook them.”

Qur'an 4:15 "If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four witnesses from amongst you against them; if they testify, confine them to houses until death [by starvation] claims them."




There is this associated more with Islam and not with any other 'religion:'Pederasty, child brides, honor killings, clitorectomies, stonings, wife beatings and blowing up every innocent they can find.


Turns out you're the liar, huh?

Religious Christians use the Bible as their guide. Again, I'm not going to go to the trouble of listing all the heinous stuff in there, because we both know it's more than enough to match any list from the Koran that you might produce. Why don't you point out where I lied? You can hate Muslims all you want. Just don't expect our laws to reflect your bigotry.

You are clearly one of those easily led fools.....i.e., what keeps Democrats in power.
here is this associated more with Islam and not with any other 'religion:'Pederasty, child brides, honor killings, clitorectomies, stonings, wife beatings and blowing up every innocent they can find.

Making nasty accusations doesn't prove anything.

Yet you were unable to provide any documentation to the opposite of what I posted.

For clarification...are you a government school grad?

 

[Penelope]

Yes I have his book Zealot. While its true some depressed Muslims use weapons, Zionist and some Christians use money, when one is depressed such as the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza they become angry.

"... some depressed Muslims use weapons,Zionist and some Christians use money, when one is depressed such as the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza they become angry."

'Angry' equals the right to slaughter innocent human beings?

Really?



Using money...which the Supreme Court equated to free speech, is like killing people???
Here is an example of same:

"NEVE DEKALIM, Gaza Strip — Palestinians looted dozens of greenhouses on Tuesday, walking off with irrigation hoses, water pumps and plastic sheeting in a blow to fledgling efforts to reconstruct the Gaza Strip.

American Jewish donors had bought more than 3,000 greenhouses from Israeli settlers in Gaza for $14 million last month and transferred them to the Palestinian Authority. Former World Bank President James Wolfensohn, who brokered the deal, put up $500,000 of his own cash."
Looters strip Gaza greenhouses

First off the jewish settlements had no business in Gaza and maybe they didn't want to be indebted to Zionist. We have interfered so much in Arab countries its sickening. What Zionist are doing to Palestinians is sickening, so don't expect Palestinians to kiss up to the Zionist. They don't want to be owned like the West Bank.

This is your response to Jews turning over $14 million in benefits to their enemies????

What are you...like, five years old???

Yes it is, now for the other side of the story:

As the date of the withdrawal approached with no deal in sight, however, the settlers began to destroy the greenhouses. The New York Times reported:



About half the greenhouses in the Israeli settlements in Gaza have already been dismantled by their owners, who have given up waiting to see if the government was going to come up with extra payment as an inducement to leave them behind, say senior officials working on the coordination of this summer's Israeli pullout from Gaza.(...)

Of the roughly 1,000 acres of agricultural land that were under greenhouses in the 21 Israeli settlements in Gaza, only 500 acres remain - creating significant doubts that the greenhouses could be handed over to the Palestinians as "a living business," the goal cited by the Israeli coordinator of the pullout, Eival Giladi.

Finally, a last-minute effort by American Jewish philantropists raised $14 million and the remainder of the greenhouses was bought and turned over to the Palestinians.

SNIP

As can be seen, the theft was carried out by individuals, and in no way was it encouraged by the Palestinian Authority. Quite on the contrary, there was a conscious PA effort to prevent the lootings, which was however hindered by lack of resources.

Two reflections arise from the stories above.

On the one hand, it's true that some of the greenhouses were destroyed by Palestinian individuals. There's nothing remarkable about that. Beggars can't be choosers, as the saying goes, and looting is what normally happens when two conditions are met: 1) an impoverished populace; and 2) a situation of lack of control by an established authority. Gazans stole the hardware and materials contained in the greenhouses not in a drive to erase the Jews' memory from the territory, but to satisfy their personal needs. There was a rationale to their theft.

The destruction of part of the greenhouses by the settlers, however, can only be explained by animosity. They spent time, effort and probably even money to dismantle the facilities so that the Palestinians wouldn't be able to use them. There's a big difference between he who damages property in order to derive a benefit and he who damages it only to harm another person.

The Hasbara Buster: The Gaza greenhouse effect

Nonsense.


You posted this:
"First off the jewish settlements had no business in Gaza and maybe they didn't want to be indebted to Zionist. We have interfered so much in Arab countries its sickening. What Zionist are doing to Palestinians is sickening, so don't expect Palestinians to kiss up to the Zionist. They don't want to be owned like the West Bank."


And...there's this:

A Palestinian carries a plastic roll he took Tuesday from a greenhouse, background, at the evacuated Jewish settlement of Neve Dekalim in the Gaza Strip.


The Palestinian leader is under intense pressure from his people and the international community to stop the growing lawlessness in Gaza, where rival militant groups are jockeying for power. As Abbas spoke, hundreds of masked Hamas gunmen wielding rifles and grenade launchers paraded through the streets of a nearby refugee camp.



The greenhouses are a centerpiece of Palestinian plans for rebuilding Gaza after 38 years of Israeli occupation. The Palestinian Authority hopes the high-tech greenhouses left by the Israelis will provide jobs and export income for Gaza’s shattered economy."
Ibid.

this is a dead subject with me, those Israeli settlements should not of been in Gaza in the first place.

 

[BULLDOG]

You know there is a similar list of verses from the Bible that sound just as brutal and violent . You lie when you claim you are challenging archaic verses. You aren't. You are accusing an entire religion of having murder as their main goal. Christianity has no lack of similar verses, but judging an entire religion by that does not give an accurate description of it's followers. Muslims I know, and I would go so far as to say most Muslims, don't consider the ones who take those verses literally as true adherents of their faith.
West-borough Baptist Church can cite verses to justify every hateful action they have taken, but that doesn't make them representatives of Christianity any more than the terrorists are representatives of Islam.

1. I never lie.
2. Religious Muslims use the Q'ran as their guide....

3. This Q'ran:

Bukhari:V4B52N220
“Allah’s Apostle said, ‘I have been made victorious with terror.’”


Qur’an:8:12

“I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle.”

Qur’an:8:57

“If you gain mastery over them in battle, inflict such a defeat as would terrorize them, so that they would learn a lesson and be warned.”

Ishaq:326

“If you come upon them, deal so forcibly as to terrify those who would follow, that they may be warned. Make a severe example of them by terrorizing Allah’s enemies.”

Qur’an:8:67

“It is not fitting for any prophet to have prisoners until he has made a great slaughtered in the land.”

Ishaq:588

“When the Apostle descends on your land none of your people will be left when he leaves.”

Tabari IX:42

“We have been dealt a situation from which there is no escape. You have seen what Muhammad has done. Arabs have submitted to him and we do not have the strength to fight. You know that no herd is safe from him. And no one even dares go outside for fear of being terrorized.”

Ishaq:326

“Allah said, ‘No Prophet before Muhammad took booty from his enemy nor prisoners for ransom.’ Muhammad said, ‘I was made victorious with terror. The earth was made a place for me to clean. I was given the most powerful words. Booty was made lawful for me. I was given the power to intercede. These five privileges were awarded to no prophet before me.’”

Ishaq:327

“Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.’”

Qur’an:7:3

“Little do you remember My warning. How many towns have We destroyed as a raid by night? Our punishment took them suddenly while they slept for their afternoon rest. Our terror came to them; Our punishment overtook them.”

Qur'an 4:15 "If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four witnesses from amongst you against them; if they testify, confine them to houses until death [by starvation] claims them."




There is this associated more with Islam and not with any other 'religion:'Pederasty, child brides, honor killings, clitorectomies, stonings, wife beatings and blowing up every innocent they can find.


Turns out you're the liar, huh?

Religious Christians use the Bible as their guide. Again, I'm not going to go to the trouble of listing all the heinous stuff in there, because we both know it's more than enough to match any list from the Koran that you might produce. Why don't you point out where I lied? You can hate Muslims all you want. Just don't expect our laws to reflect your bigotry.

You are clearly one of those easily led fools.....i.e., what keeps Democrats in power.
here is this associated more with Islam and not with any other 'religion:'Pederasty, child brides, honor killings, clitorectomies, stonings, wife beatings and blowing up every innocent they can find.

Making nasty accusations doesn't prove anything.

Yet you were unable to provide any documentation to the opposite of what I posted.

For clarification...are you a government school grad?

Not my job to refute every crazy thing you spout.

 

[irosie91]

"...Muslims being persecuted by Christians here."

These can only be the words of an Obama supporter.

Can you give examples and commensurate numbers of same?


You might want to include this:
Religious bias
Of the 1,340 victims of an anti-religious hate crime:

• 62.4 percent were victims of an offender’s anti-Jewish bias.
• 11.6 percent were victims of an anti-Islamic bias. Victims

According to your link, and your post, anti-Islamic bias victims are the second largest group of victims in the US based on religion, exceeded only by anti-Jewish bias victims. You answered your own question, and disproved your own statement with your own link. Congratulations.

Now...let's consider your cognitive dissonance...

You may have heard of 9/11.....
You may not be aware of the reason for Homeland Security and long lines of checking at airports
Or Gitmo....
Or the OP

but....once you've educated yourself to the above.....not that Jews are not involved in any of those....and yet the victimization of Muslims is minuscule in comparison.
Don't be a dunce you whole life.....take a day off.

You silly little twat. Nobody is trying to justify 9/11, and even if the monsters who attacked us were Muslim, that doesn't make the entire Muslim religion, or all Muslims responsible for it. Your own link showed the FBI has determined Muslims are the 2nd largest group of victims of religiously motivated hate crimes. Your hateful crap isn't justified.

"....even if the monsters who attacked us were Muslim, that doesn't make the entire Muslim religion, or all Muslims responsible for it."

Quran 4:89: "They (infidels) desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper."

Quran 8:12: "Instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers;"

Quran 2:191: "... kill the disbelievers wherever we find them

Quran 22:19-22: "… for them (the unbelievers) garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods."

Quran 8:12: "Your Lord inspired the angels with the message: 'I will terrorize the unbelievers. Therefore smite them on their necks and every joint and incapacitate them. Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.'"

Qur'an:8:12 "I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle."

Quran 8:7: "Allah wished to confirm the truth by His words: 'Wipe the infidels out to the last.'"

Quran 8:59: "The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them. They are your enemy and Allah's enemy."

Quran 8:60: "Prepare against them whatever arms and cavalry you can muster that you may strike terror in the enemies of Allah, and others besides them not known to you."

Quran 9.29" "Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection."

Quran 47:4: "Strike off the heads of the disbelievers" and, after making a "wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives."

Hadith Sahih Muslim (41:6985): "Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: 'The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.'"

Quran 9:5: "When the sacred forbidden months for fighting are past, fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, torture them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."

Sura 3:151: "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the unbelievers for that they joined companions with Allah for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be the fire; and evil is the home of the wrong-doers!"

Sura 8:60: "Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power including steeds of war to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies of Allah and your enemies and others besides whom ye may not know but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah shall be repaid unto you and ye shall not be treated unjustly."

Tabari IX "Allah permits you to shut them (women) in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Quran."

Tabari I:280: "Allah said, 'It is My obligation to make Eve bleed once every month as she made this tree bleed. I must also make Eve stupid, although I created her intelligent.' Because Allah afflicted Eve, all of the women of this world menstruate and are stupid."

Ishaq:327: "Allah said, 'A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.'"

These quotations are not out of context. They are representative of dozens and dozens of other messages in the Islamic "holy" texts. Clearly, they have inspired the violent and hateful behavior of followers.

I know there are many peaceful Muslims who view them allegorically rather than literally. Yet, is it outside the bounds of civil public discourse to challenge such statements?

I think it would be irresponsible to ignore how the Quran instructs its followers.

You know there is a similar list of verses from the Bible that sound just as brutal and violent . You lie when you claim you are challenging archaic verses. You aren't. You are accusing an entire religion of having murder as their main goal. Christianity has no lack of similar verses, but judging an entire religion by that does not give an accurate description of it's followers. Muslims I know, and I would go so far as to say most Muslims, don't consider the ones who take those verses literally as true adherents of their faith.
West-borough Baptist Church can cite verses to justify every hateful action they have taken, but that doesn't make them representatives of Christianity any more than the terrorists are representatives of Islam.

you don't know a whole lot of muslims-------those you do know ----likely do not
trust you enough to express themselves FREELY. I agree that picking verses
out of a scriptural writing is meaningless-------what IS MEANINGFUL----is how
a scriptural writing is interpreted by the PEOPLE for whom that writing is
"holy"-------not so hard----just check their LEGAL SYSTEM, social more's ---and
HEROES...
In times past ----
you could get the essence of muslim teachings in mosques. I have been in
mosques----before 9-11-01. Too late for you ----you missed the window of
opportunity

 

[BULLDOG]

According to your link, and your post, anti-Islamic bias victims are the second largest group of victims in the US based on religion, exceeded only by anti-Jewish bias victims. You answered your own question, and disproved your own statement with your own link. Congratulations.

Now...let's consider your cognitive dissonance...

You may have heard of 9/11.....
You may not be aware of the reason for Homeland Security and long lines of checking at airports
Or Gitmo....
Or the OP

but....once you've educated yourself to the above.....not that Jews are not involved in any of those....and yet the victimization of Muslims is minuscule in comparison.
Don't be a dunce you whole life.....take a day off.

You silly little twat. Nobody is trying to justify 9/11, and even if the monsters who attacked us were Muslim, that doesn't make the entire Muslim religion, or all Muslims responsible for it. Your own link showed the FBI has determined Muslims are the 2nd largest group of victims of religiously motivated hate crimes. Your hateful crap isn't justified.

"....even if the monsters who attacked us were Muslim, that doesn't make the entire Muslim religion, or all Muslims responsible for it."

Quran 4:89: "They (infidels) desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper."

Quran 8:12: "Instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers;"

Quran 2:191: "... kill the disbelievers wherever we find them

Quran 22:19-22: "… for them (the unbelievers) garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods."

Quran 8:12: "Your Lord inspired the angels with the message: 'I will terrorize the unbelievers. Therefore smite them on their necks and every joint and incapacitate them. Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.'"

Qur'an:8:12 "I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle."

Quran 8:7: "Allah wished to confirm the truth by His words: 'Wipe the infidels out to the last.'"

Quran 8:59: "The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them. They are your enemy and Allah's enemy."

Quran 8:60: "Prepare against them whatever arms and cavalry you can muster that you may strike terror in the enemies of Allah, and others besides them not known to you."

Quran 9.29" "Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection."

Quran 47:4: "Strike off the heads of the disbelievers" and, after making a "wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives."

Hadith Sahih Muslim (41:6985): "Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: 'The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.'"

Quran 9:5: "When the sacred forbidden months for fighting are past, fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, torture them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."

Sura 3:151: "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the unbelievers for that they joined companions with Allah for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be the fire; and evil is the home of the wrong-doers!"

Sura 8:60: "Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power including steeds of war to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies of Allah and your enemies and others besides whom ye may not know but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah shall be repaid unto you and ye shall not be treated unjustly."

Tabari IX "Allah permits you to shut them (women) in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Quran."

Tabari I:280: "Allah said, 'It is My obligation to make Eve bleed once every month as she made this tree bleed. I must also make Eve stupid, although I created her intelligent.' Because Allah afflicted Eve, all of the women of this world menstruate and are stupid."

Ishaq:327: "Allah said, 'A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.'"

These quotations are not out of context. They are representative of dozens and dozens of other messages in the Islamic "holy" texts. Clearly, they have inspired the violent and hateful behavior of followers.

I know there are many peaceful Muslims who view them allegorically rather than literally. Yet, is it outside the bounds of civil public discourse to challenge such statements?

I think it would be irresponsible to ignore how the Quran instructs its followers.

You know there is a similar list of verses from the Bible that sound just as brutal and violent . You lie when you claim you are challenging archaic verses. You aren't. You are accusing an entire religion of having murder as their main goal. Christianity has no lack of similar verses, but judging an entire religion by that does not give an accurate description of it's followers. Muslims I know, and I would go so far as to say most Muslims, don't consider the ones who take those verses literally as true adherents of their faith.
West-borough Baptist Church can cite verses to justify every hateful action they have taken, but that doesn't make them representatives of Christianity any more than the terrorists are representatives of Islam.

you don't know a whole lot of muslims-------those you do know ----likely do not
trust you enough to express themselves FREELY. I agree that picking verses
out of a scriptural writing is meaningless-------what IS MEANINGFUL----is how
a scriptural writing is interpreted by the PEOPLE for whom that writing is
"holy"-------not so hard----just check their LEGAL SYSTEM, social more's ---and
HEROES...
In times past ----
you could get the essence of muslim teachings in mosques. I have been in
mosques----before 9-11-01. Too late for you ----you missed the window of
opportunity

So now you are capable of making judgments about the number and quality of my personal friendships? How do you do that? Is there a special app that you use for that? You claim to have some special knowledge about Muslims from 15 years ago, I suspect you know more about the claims made by crazy right wingers about Muslims than you do about actual Muslims.

 

[PoliticalChic]

1. I never lie.
2. Religious Muslims use the Q'ran as their guide....

3. This Q'ran:

Bukhari:V4B52N220
“Allah’s Apostle said, ‘I have been made victorious with terror.’”


Qur’an:8:12

“I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle.”

Qur’an:8:57

“If you gain mastery over them in battle, inflict such a defeat as would terrorize them, so that they would learn a lesson and be warned.”

Ishaq:326

“If you come upon them, deal so forcibly as to terrify those who would follow, that they may be warned. Make a severe example of them by terrorizing Allah’s enemies.”

Qur’an:8:67

“It is not fitting for any prophet to have prisoners until he has made a great slaughtered in the land.”

Ishaq:588

“When the Apostle descends on your land none of your people will be left when he leaves.”

Tabari IX:42

“We have been dealt a situation from which there is no escape. You have seen what Muhammad has done. Arabs have submitted to him and we do not have the strength to fight. You know that no herd is safe from him. And no one even dares go outside for fear of being terrorized.”

Ishaq:326

“Allah said, ‘No Prophet before Muhammad took booty from his enemy nor prisoners for ransom.’ Muhammad said, ‘I was made victorious with terror. The earth was made a place for me to clean. I was given the most powerful words. Booty was made lawful for me. I was given the power to intercede. These five privileges were awarded to no prophet before me.’”

Ishaq:327

“Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.’”

Qur’an:7:3

“Little do you remember My warning. How many towns have We destroyed as a raid by night? Our punishment took them suddenly while they slept for their afternoon rest. Our terror came to them; Our punishment overtook them.”

Qur'an 4:15 "If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four witnesses from amongst you against them; if they testify, confine them to houses until death [by starvation] claims them."




There is this associated more with Islam and not with any other 'religion:'Pederasty, child brides, honor killings, clitorectomies, stonings, wife beatings and blowing up every innocent they can find.


Turns out you're the liar, huh?

Religious Christians use the Bible as their guide. Again, I'm not going to go to the trouble of listing all the heinous stuff in there, because we both know it's more than enough to match any list from the Koran that you might produce. Why don't you point out where I lied? You can hate Muslims all you want. Just don't expect our laws to reflect your bigotry.

You are clearly one of those easily led fools.....i.e., what keeps Democrats in power.
here is this associated more with Islam and not with any other 'religion:'Pederasty, child brides, honor killings, clitorectomies, stonings, wife beatings and blowing up every innocent they can find.

Making nasty accusations doesn't prove anything.

Yet you were unable to provide any documentation to the opposite of what I posted.

For clarification...are you a government school grad?

Not my job to refute every crazy thing you spout.

We both know that you would if you were able.

 

[irosie91]

Now...let's consider your cognitive dissonance...

You may have heard of 9/11.....
You may not be aware of the reason for Homeland Security and long lines of checking at airports
Or Gitmo....
Or the OP

but....once you've educated yourself to the above.....not that Jews are not involved in any of those....and yet the victimization of Muslims is minuscule in comparison.
Don't be a dunce you whole life.....take a day off.

You silly little twat. Nobody is trying to justify 9/11, and even if the monsters who attacked us were Muslim, that doesn't make the entire Muslim religion, or all Muslims responsible for it. Your own link showed the FBI has determined Muslims are the 2nd largest group of victims of religiously motivated hate crimes. Your hateful crap isn't justified.

"....even if the monsters who attacked us were Muslim, that doesn't make the entire Muslim religion, or all Muslims responsible for it."

Quran 4:89: "They (infidels) desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper."

Quran 8:12: "Instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers;"

Quran 2:191: "... kill the disbelievers wherever we find them

Quran 22:19-22: "… for them (the unbelievers) garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods."

Quran 8:12: "Your Lord inspired the angels with the message: 'I will terrorize the unbelievers. Therefore smite them on their necks and every joint and incapacitate them. Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.'"

Qur'an:8:12 "I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle."

Quran 8:7: "Allah wished to confirm the truth by His words: 'Wipe the infidels out to the last.'"

Quran 8:59: "The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them. They are your enemy and Allah's enemy."

Quran 8:60: "Prepare against them whatever arms and cavalry you can muster that you may strike terror in the enemies of Allah, and others besides them not known to you."

Quran 9.29" "Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection."

Quran 47:4: "Strike off the heads of the disbelievers" and, after making a "wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives."

Hadith Sahih Muslim (41:6985): "Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: 'The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.'"

Quran 9:5: "When the sacred forbidden months for fighting are past, fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, torture them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."

Sura 3:151: "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the unbelievers for that they joined companions with Allah for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be the fire; and evil is the home of the wrong-doers!"

Sura 8:60: "Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power including steeds of war to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies of Allah and your enemies and others besides whom ye may not know but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah shall be repaid unto you and ye shall not be treated unjustly."

Tabari IX "Allah permits you to shut them (women) in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Quran."

Tabari I:280: "Allah said, 'It is My obligation to make Eve bleed once every month as she made this tree bleed. I must also make Eve stupid, although I created her intelligent.' Because Allah afflicted Eve, all of the women of this world menstruate and are stupid."

Ishaq:327: "Allah said, 'A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.'"

These quotations are not out of context. They are representative of dozens and dozens of other messages in the Islamic "holy" texts. Clearly, they have inspired the violent and hateful behavior of followers.

I know there are many peaceful Muslims who view them allegorically rather than literally. Yet, is it outside the bounds of civil public discourse to challenge such statements?

I think it would be irresponsible to ignore how the Quran instructs its followers.

You know there is a similar list of verses from the Bible that sound just as brutal and violent . You lie when you claim you are challenging archaic verses. You aren't. You are accusing an entire religion of having murder as their main goal. Christianity has no lack of similar verses, but judging an entire religion by that does not give an accurate description of it's followers. Muslims I know, and I would go so far as to say most Muslims, don't consider the ones who take those verses literally as true adherents of their faith.
West-borough Baptist Church can cite verses to justify every hateful action they have taken, but that doesn't make them representatives of Christianity any more than the terrorists are representatives of Islam.

you don't know a whole lot of muslims-------those you do know ----likely do not
trust you enough to express themselves FREELY. I agree that picking verses
out of a scriptural writing is meaningless-------what IS MEANINGFUL----is how
a scriptural writing is interpreted by the PEOPLE for whom that writing is
"holy"-------not so hard----just check their LEGAL SYSTEM, social more's ---and
HEROES...
In times past ----
you could get the essence of muslim teachings in mosques. I have been in
mosques----before 9-11-01. Too late for you ----you missed the window of
opportunity

So now you are capable of making judgments about the number and quality of my personal friendships? How do you do that? Is there a special app that you use for that? You claim to have some special knowledge about Muslims from 15 years ago, I suspect you know more about the claims made by crazy right wingers about Muslims than you do about actual Muslims.

wrong again----I have had close relationships (social and vocational) with muslims since the mid 1960s. None of my information cames from "crazy"
right wingers or right wingers in general. It is VERY probable that I read the koran before you were born and before people of your "circle" had ever so
much as heard of that book. ----.
I have provided a hint as to my "credential". YOU ASSUME a lot more than
do I.
another issue-------I do not mingle with "right wingers".

Getting back to MUSLIMS----of course there are very some very secular muslims---
but the STANDARD accepter partyline for muslims is that UNLIKE the bible
(ie Christian and Jewish stuff) THE KORAN IS ABSOLUTELY LITERALLY CLEAR
WORD BY WORD -----and does not even require 'interpretation", I doubt that
you ever spoke about the koran with even a nominal muslim

 

[RWNJ]

In Orwell's famed allegory, 'Animal Farm,' we learned that
“All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.”

Clearly, when one uses the term 'religion,' the same warning must be followed.


1. "Germany: Christian Refugees Persecuted by Muslims

• Thousands of Christians in German refugee shelters are being persecuted by Muslims, sometimes even by their security guards, according to a new report by the NGO Open Doors.
• "A major obstacle to the survey was that many victims were afraid to participate. ... Their concern was not only on the possible consequences for them personally and for their families in Germany, but also for their relatives who continue to live in the countries of origin." — Open Doors report.
• "I came to Germany after fleeing my own country in the hope my life would be safer in the face of growing dangers. But in Germany I've been threatened more." — Christian refugee in Germany.
• "Despite increased reports about this problem by the media, charities, human rights organizations, church leaders and Christian organizations, German authorities and politicians have hardly ever launched an investigation. Instead, we believe that incidents are deliberately downplayed and even covered up. ... Even in police stations, religiously motivated attacks on Christian refugees are not documented as such." — Open Doors report.

2. .....German authorities and police have deliberately downplayed and even covered up the "taboo issue" of Muslim attacks on Christian refugees, apparently to avoid fueling anti-immigration sentiments.

3. The report, "Religiously Motivated Attacks on Christian Refugees in Germany" (Religiös motivierte Übergriffe gegen christliche Flüchtlinge in Deutschland), was produced by the German branch of Open Doors, a non-governmental organization supporting persecuted Christians, worldwide.

4. The study — which confirms a Gatestone Institute analysis about Muslim-Christian violence in German refugee shelters — documents more than 300 incidents in which Christian refugees in Germany have been physically and sexually assaulted, and even threatened with death, because of their faith.

5. Most of those questioned came from Iran, Afghanistan and Syria. Nine out of ten of those participating in the survey were Christians with a Muslim background. Of these, the majority had already converted to Christianity in their home countries.


6. ...the report "only shows the tip of the iceberg" because "many Christian refugees are frightened of facing more difficulties if they report incidents." Others fear that "the information could get into the wrong hands and cause danger for relatives still living in their home countries." The report states:

7. "It is alarming that Christian refugees and other religious minorities increasingly are facing the same persecution and discrimination as in their Muslim countries of origin,....



8.Thomas Müller, an analyst with Open Doors Deutschland, concluded:

"Christian refugees from many different countries are trying and failing to find safety in Europe and it is likely that the report only shows the tip of the iceberg. It is clear that many Christian refugees — especially those who are converts to the Christian faith — live in fear of persecution from Muslim refugees who make up the majority of residents in the refugee hostels set up throughout Europe. It is sobering to hear persecuted Christians telling a Western country that they recognize the very same persecution patterns in operation as in their home countries."
Germany: Christian Refugees Persecuted by Muslims

As it has happened, countless times before, Christians are once again the first casualty of those who wish to rule unopposed. Christianity is the complete opposite of despotism. Despots cannot rule over a Christian society, so Christians must first be "dealt with".

 

[irosie91]

In Orwell's famed allegory, 'Animal Farm,' we learned that
“All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.”

Clearly, when one uses the term 'religion,' the same warning must be followed.


1. "Germany: Christian Refugees Persecuted by Muslims

• Thousands of Christians in German refugee shelters are being persecuted by Muslims, sometimes even by their security guards, according to a new report by the NGO Open Doors.
• "A major obstacle to the survey was that many victims were afraid to participate. ... Their concern was not only on the possible consequences for them personally and for their families in Germany, but also for their relatives who continue to live in the countries of origin." — Open Doors report.
• "I came to Germany after fleeing my own country in the hope my life would be safer in the face of growing dangers. But in Germany I've been threatened more." — Christian refugee in Germany.
• "Despite increased reports about this problem by the media, charities, human rights organizations, church leaders and Christian organizations, German authorities and politicians have hardly ever launched an investigation. Instead, we believe that incidents are deliberately downplayed and even covered up. ... Even in police stations, religiously motivated attacks on Christian refugees are not documented as such." — Open Doors report.

2. .....German authorities and police have deliberately downplayed and even covered up the "taboo issue" of Muslim attacks on Christian refugees, apparently to avoid fueling anti-immigration sentiments.

3. The report, "Religiously Motivated Attacks on Christian Refugees in Germany" (Religiös motivierte Übergriffe gegen christliche Flüchtlinge in Deutschland), was produced by the German branch of Open Doors, a non-governmental organization supporting persecuted Christians, worldwide.

4. The study — which confirms a Gatestone Institute analysis about Muslim-Christian violence in German refugee shelters — documents more than 300 incidents in which Christian refugees in Germany have been physically and sexually assaulted, and even threatened with death, because of their faith.

5. Most of those questioned came from Iran, Afghanistan and Syria. Nine out of ten of those participating in the survey were Christians with a Muslim background. Of these, the majority had already converted to Christianity in their home countries.


6. ...the report "only shows the tip of the iceberg" because "many Christian refugees are frightened of facing more difficulties if they report incidents." Others fear that "the information could get into the wrong hands and cause danger for relatives still living in their home countries." The report states:

7. "It is alarming that Christian refugees and other religious minorities increasingly are facing the same persecution and discrimination as in their Muslim countries of origin,....



8.Thomas Müller, an analyst with Open Doors Deutschland, concluded:

"Christian refugees from many different countries are trying and failing to find safety in Europe and it is likely that the report only shows the tip of the iceberg. It is clear that many Christian refugees — especially those who are converts to the Christian faith — live in fear of persecution from Muslim refugees who make up the majority of residents in the refugee hostels set up throughout Europe. It is sobering to hear persecuted Christians telling a Western country that they recognize the very same persecution patterns in operation as in their home countries."
Germany: Christian Refugees Persecuted by Muslims

As it has happened, countless times before, Christians are once again the first casualty of those who wish to rule unopposed. Christianity is the complete opposite of despotism. Despots cannot rule over a Christian society, so Christians must first be "dealt with".

I am fascinated by your somewhat ----not so accurate, statement. Could you provide a bit of a hint as to who you are------so doing helps me to understand
the origin of your orientation. I am an elderly jewish female----born in the USA---
of two jewish parent---also born in the USA

For the record----historically----Christian society------starting at the beginning with
CONSTANTINE----and the "holy" roman empire------have been EXTREMELY
despotic

 

[RWNJ]

In Orwell's famed allegory, 'Animal Farm,' we learned that
“All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.”

Clearly, when one uses the term 'religion,' the same warning must be followed.


1. "Germany: Christian Refugees Persecuted by Muslims

• Thousands of Christians in German refugee shelters are being persecuted by Muslims, sometimes even by their security guards, according to a new report by the NGO Open Doors.
• "A major obstacle to the survey was that many victims were afraid to participate. ... Their concern was not only on the possible consequences for them personally and for their families in Germany, but also for their relatives who continue to live in the countries of origin." — Open Doors report.
• "I came to Germany after fleeing my own country in the hope my life would be safer in the face of growing dangers. But in Germany I've been threatened more." — Christian refugee in Germany.
• "Despite increased reports about this problem by the media, charities, human rights organizations, church leaders and Christian organizations, German authorities and politicians have hardly ever launched an investigation. Instead, we believe that incidents are deliberately downplayed and even covered up. ... Even in police stations, religiously motivated attacks on Christian refugees are not documented as such." — Open Doors report.

2. .....German authorities and police have deliberately downplayed and even covered up the "taboo issue" of Muslim attacks on Christian refugees, apparently to avoid fueling anti-immigration sentiments.

3. The report, "Religiously Motivated Attacks on Christian Refugees in Germany" (Religiös motivierte Übergriffe gegen christliche Flüchtlinge in Deutschland), was produced by the German branch of Open Doors, a non-governmental organization supporting persecuted Christians, worldwide.

4. The study — which confirms a Gatestone Institute analysis about Muslim-Christian violence in German refugee shelters — documents more than 300 incidents in which Christian refugees in Germany have been physically and sexually assaulted, and even threatened with death, because of their faith.

5. Most of those questioned came from Iran, Afghanistan and Syria. Nine out of ten of those participating in the survey were Christians with a Muslim background. Of these, the majority had already converted to Christianity in their home countries.


6. ...the report "only shows the tip of the iceberg" because "many Christian refugees are frightened of facing more difficulties if they report incidents." Others fear that "the information could get into the wrong hands and cause danger for relatives still living in their home countries." The report states:

7. "It is alarming that Christian refugees and other religious minorities increasingly are facing the same persecution and discrimination as in their Muslim countries of origin,....



8.Thomas Müller, an analyst with Open Doors Deutschland, concluded:

"Christian refugees from many different countries are trying and failing to find safety in Europe and it is likely that the report only shows the tip of the iceberg. It is clear that many Christian refugees — especially those who are converts to the Christian faith — live in fear of persecution from Muslim refugees who make up the majority of residents in the refugee hostels set up throughout Europe. It is sobering to hear persecuted Christians telling a Western country that they recognize the very same persecution patterns in operation as in their home countries."
Germany: Christian Refugees Persecuted by Muslims

As it has happened, countless times before, Christians are once again the first casualty of those who wish to rule unopposed. Christianity is the complete opposite of despotism. Despots cannot rule over a Christian society, so Christians must first be "dealt with".

I am fascinated by your somewhat ----not so accurate, statement. Could you provide a bit of a hint as to who you are------so doing helps me to understand
the origin of your orientation. I am an elderly jewish female----born in the USA---
of two jewish parent---also born in the USA

For the record----historically----Christian society------starting at the beginning with
CONSTANTINE----and the "holy" roman empire------have been EXTREMELY
despotic

You mean the same Constantine who created a false pagan religion? First, let's get one thing straight. The catholic church (I refuse to capitalize it) does not represent true Christianity. The true Church existed centuries before the catholic church got started. So the despotic actions you refer to have nothing to do with the true believers in Christ.

Do you know what the real Church is? I'd like to hear your definition. Being Jewish, is it safe to assume that you do not believe that Jesus is the Messiah? Correct me, if I'm wrong.

 

[irosie91]

In Orwell's famed allegory, 'Animal Farm,' we learned that
“All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.”

Clearly, when one uses the term 'religion,' the same warning must be followed.


1. "Germany: Christian Refugees Persecuted by Muslims

• Thousands of Christians in German refugee shelters are being persecuted by Muslims, sometimes even by their security guards, according to a new report by the NGO Open Doors.
• "A major obstacle to the survey was that many victims were afraid to participate. ... Their concern was not only on the possible consequences for them personally and for their families in Germany, but also for their relatives who continue to live in the countries of origin." — Open Doors report.
• "I came to Germany after fleeing my own country in the hope my life would be safer in the face of growing dangers. But in Germany I've been threatened more." — Christian refugee in Germany.
• "Despite increased reports about this problem by the media, charities, human rights organizations, church leaders and Christian organizations, German authorities and politicians have hardly ever launched an investigation. Instead, we believe that incidents are deliberately downplayed and even covered up. ... Even in police stations, religiously motivated attacks on Christian refugees are not documented as such." — Open Doors report.

2. .....German authorities and police have deliberately downplayed and even covered up the "taboo issue" of Muslim attacks on Christian refugees, apparently to avoid fueling anti-immigration sentiments.

3. The report, "Religiously Motivated Attacks on Christian Refugees in Germany" (Religiös motivierte Übergriffe gegen christliche Flüchtlinge in Deutschland), was produced by the German branch of Open Doors, a non-governmental organization supporting persecuted Christians, worldwide.

4. The study — which confirms a Gatestone Institute analysis about Muslim-Christian violence in German refugee shelters — documents more than 300 incidents in which Christian refugees in Germany have been physically and sexually assaulted, and even threatened with death, because of their faith.

5. Most of those questioned came from Iran, Afghanistan and Syria. Nine out of ten of those participating in the survey were Christians with a Muslim background. Of these, the majority had already converted to Christianity in their home countries.


6. ...the report "only shows the tip of the iceberg" because "many Christian refugees are frightened of facing more difficulties if they report incidents." Others fear that "the information could get into the wrong hands and cause danger for relatives still living in their home countries." The report states:

7. "It is alarming that Christian refugees and other religious minorities increasingly are facing the same persecution and discrimination as in their Muslim countries of origin,....



8.Thomas Müller, an analyst with Open Doors Deutschland, concluded:

"Christian refugees from many different countries are trying and failing to find safety in Europe and it is likely that the report only shows the tip of the iceberg. It is clear that many Christian refugees — especially those who are converts to the Christian faith — live in fear of persecution from Muslim refugees who make up the majority of residents in the refugee hostels set up throughout Europe. It is sobering to hear persecuted Christians telling a Western country that they recognize the very same persecution patterns in operation as in their home countries."
Germany: Christian Refugees Persecuted by Muslims

As it has happened, countless times before, Christians are once again the first casualty of those who wish to rule unopposed. Christianity is the complete opposite of despotism. Despots cannot rule over a Christian society, so Christians must first be "dealt with".

I am fascinated by your somewhat ----not so accurate, statement. Could you provide a bit of a hint as to who you are------so doing helps me to understand
the origin of your orientation. I am an elderly jewish female----born in the USA---
of two jewish parent---also born in the USA

For the record----historically----Christian society------starting at the beginning with
CONSTANTINE----and the "holy" roman empire------have been EXTREMELY
despotic

You mean the same Constantine who created a false pagan religion? First, let's get one thing straight. The catholic church (I refuse to capitalize it) does not represent true Christianity. The true Church existed centuries before the catholic church got started. So the despotic actions you refer to have nothing to do with the true believers in Christ.

Do you know what the real Church is? I'd like to hear your definition. Being Jewish, is it safe to assume that you do not believe that Jesus is the Messiah? Correct me, if I'm wrong.

I do not define Christianity-----Christians do. There are many sects that call themselves "Christianity" and base their religion on the book called "the new
testament" Many of those religions have been the state religion of
despotic regimes-----primarily CATHOLICISM -----but also including the
"eastern orthodox" and even some protestant groups Prior to Constantine and
his "holy" Roman empire-------Christianity was NOT the state religion of any
country.