Question for Left-Leaning Individuals: Democrats, Socialists, Liberals, Marxists, Communists, Big-Government, One-Worlders, Etc.

[martybegan]

Agree with most, but not so sure about the NY 90s?
Wasn't that Guiliani, with his stop and frisk nonsense?

Broken windows policing, of which stop and frisk was only a part.

And I lived through it and saw the improvement.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

The left will never be satisfied. America has never been this far left in her history (save the FDR era, perhaps) and yet it isn't enough for leftists. They want absolute control of everything and everybody and if they ever achieve that goal, it still won't be enough. It's why I'm so interested to find out what actually motivates them. I asked but have only received a couple of fairly straight answers.

See post 140

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Hartman is an emotional idiot fueled by the problems his father had.

Unions are outdated and an anachronism . I was a United Steel Worker and Teamster and they were nothing but crooks. I saw many idiots that needed to be fired get their jobs back because of the unions. Our union ran the Steel Mill out of business because they would not make concessions when the plant was failing : Quote from Harold Lester president of our union "Boys if we take a 50 cent pay cut, we will be working for nothing",,,,,,,6 months later, the plant closed (Mclouth Steel).

Democrats DO NOTHING for the working man, everything they do is to GAIN POWER FOR THE SUPER RICH behind a fake veneer of helping the working man. The DemonRats take all of the credit for the hard gains made by the Unions.

Properly regulate industry ??? by letting the Chinese steal patents, prosper from a lopsided trade balance, keep their dollar pegged in value below the US dollar so Chinese cannot afford American imports, thousands of small businesses closing due to DemonRats cutting off business loans, Driving Inflation to stratospheric levels by printing money like crazy, Shopping malls and chain stores closing, AND THE BIG ONE : FLOODING THE COUNTRY WITH CHEAP WORKERS FOR THEIR CORPORATE MASTERS while bankrupting cities and safety nets.

Trump had the best economy I have ever seen in 50 years of working.

The Heiristocracy's Right Hand Does Know What Its Left Hand Is Doing

Like Hillary Rodham, Thom Hartman went from high-school Goldwater fanatic to Leftist student radical in the Preppy-dominated "American" universities. The rest of your post proves that those born in the Right Wing took over the Democratic Party and never changed their sheltered-snob attitudes.

 

[sealybobo]

The Heiristocracy's Right Hand Does Know What Its Left Hand Is Doing

Like Hillary Rodham, Thom Hartman went from high-school Goldwater fanatic to Leftist student radical in the Preppy-dominated "American" universities. The rest of your post proves that those born in the Right Wing took over the Democratic Party and never changed their sheltered-snob attitudes.

Here's what is sad about you primitive Republicans. You think this is the best humans can do. So fucking wrong. We're only about 2 steps out of the cave. Just figuring everything out. First we burned coal, gas, then we advance.

They say civilizations have 3 levels. I won't remember all of them but the first civilization figures out how to make fire. Next level figures out how to burn coal and oil. The smarter civilization learns how to tap into the sun.

Evolve bitch!

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

I have a feeling that these steel companies wanted to go overseas so for a decade they let the employees act like fools in order to gain support for leaving. I know first hand you aint wrong. Ford Lincoln Plant workers where I lived ran those jobs overseas. They weren't good employees.

I don't know if Ford workers today are pieces of shit. I will admit Ford Union workers and GM needed to be reformed. But I still value their union. Even if it too is corrupt. It's as corrupt as the corporation it works for. It has a seat at the table. If the leaders are unreasonable I wouldn't blame the company for moving.

I heard the Ford Union workers on strike in Texas won. The strike is over. $40 hr. $28 to start. Good for them. Texas' economy is better off today.

Laissez-Faire's Lazy Fairies

The workers create the value of the investment. So why do we have Investor Supremacy, which is what a terminally sick stage of Capitalism demands in a desperate grab for what's left after its looting?

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Your USELESS platitudes are vacuous! We do not and can not control the weather. I live on a GIANT GLACIAL MORAINE in NY called Long Island.
It was formed by a MASSIVE ICE SHEET that somehow MELTED just around 20,000 years ago.
What caused the melting of the Laurentide Ice Sheet?????
Mammoth farts???????
Whatever the case, all this henny penny shy is falling NONSENSE is for nothing but power and control; its all POLITICAL!!!!
..

Denier Fred Flintstone

It was the fault of those damn cavemen with their gas-guzzling pickup trucks!!!

 

[sealybobo]

Laissez-Faire's Lazy Fairies

The workers create the value of the investment. So why do we have Investor Supremacy, which is what a terminally sick stage of Capitalism demands in a desperate grab for what's left after its looting?

I can't disagree. It does seem like Capitalism is just another ism. We've been raised to worship it.

Capitalism needs to start working better for more people or watch out. The young people won't support a broken ism. Next thing you know they'll be in favor of socialized medicine.

Socialism as Popular as Capitalism Among Young Adults in U.S.

Young adults' reaction to the term "capitalism" has grown less positive over the past decade, while their view of socialism has remained steady.

news.gallup.com

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Remember during the industrial revolution it was just us polluting. Now it's every country on the planet. You're a moron.

"Pollution" Is a Dishonest Term Taken From a Pagan Superstition

 

[sealybobo]

The Heiristocracy's Right Hand Does Know What Its Left Hand Is Doing

Like Hillary Rodham, Thom Hartman went from high-school Goldwater fanatic to Leftist student radical in the Preppy-dominated "American" universities. The rest of your post proves that those born in the Right Wing took over the Democratic Party and never changed their sheltered-snob attitudes.

You know what's funny? They first sold people on cars by telling them they were green. No more horse shit in town.

 

[sealybobo]

"Pollution" Is a Dishonest Term Taken From a Pagan Superstition

I can't buy that. Not as a Michigander who had to deal with that Canadian wildfire this summer.

 

[ActionJackson]

Really? If you still don’t understand us “lefties” it is because you have not been listening. And you have not been listening because you know that you won’t like what you hear, so you pretend to not understand or just tune it out. The fact is that our positions on various issues have deep historical roots going back to the early days of the 20th century and the advent of the progressive movement. That movement, championed by Teddy Roosevelt , originated the concept that government can and should exist as an instrument that improves the lives of citizens. A fundamental difference between conservatives and liberals is this: Conservatives proport to champion small and unobtrusive government, liberals take the position that it is not the size of government that matters, rather it is what government does, who benefits or is hurt by it, and how well does it do what it does.

Along those same lines is the prevalent mindset among conservatives is that government exists as an end in itself to perpetuate it’s own existence, with limited powers and effect on the every day lives of people. However the problem with that view ....and this seems to be a more recent phenomena is that it reeks with hypocrisy. Conservatives preach limited government, until that philosophy bumps up against certain issues that they need to control such who can marry who, reproductive rights, and religious freedom. They largely reject same sex marriage, gender affirming care, women's domain over her body, while supporting the idea that people can weaponize religion as an excuse to discriminate with the support of government. Conservatives used to stand for small government and fiscal responsibility. Today’s crop of conservatives stand for neither in any consistent or coherent way

Having said that, it largely comes down to-not so much an issue of who is right and who is wrong- but rather a matter of what is one’s vision for what the country should be. We on the left envision an inclusive and humanistic society while from my perspective, others are content with a society that expects everyone to fend for themselves subject to the fickle forces of nature, economy, and geo-political instability.

I made this list on progressive principles some time ago. Thank you for inspiring me to update it and elaborate on it now. I only ask that you respond thoughtfully with the recognition that they are based on deeply held values and are not frivolous or arbitrary . Please explain exactly why you might oppose each of these points, and provide and alternative viewpoint based on your clearly defined values that is reasonable and workable and not simply based on a knee jerk opposition to the “left”
Thank you in advance
Progressive Principles and Goals. Progressive Patriot (Updated 10.25.23)
(These are my own thoughts based on my understanding of progressive philosophy, humanistic principles, a connectedness to the world and Democratic ideals )

1. All citizens and legal residents are entitled to sufficient shelter, food, water or health care, and government policies and programs should reflect that. No one should have to work more than one full time job to pay the bills, while CEOs make obscene amounts of money that cannot be justified. In a free market economy where demands for labor fluctuate and compensation is only minimally regulated, the workforce is subject to the whims and uncertainties of the marketplace. A social safety net and subsidies are required to maintain a healthy and available labor pool which is actually the life blood of capitalism which we on the left actually support, albeit with regulations and support

2. All people should enjoy equal protection under the law. No one should suffer from discrimination, humiliation or violence because of their race, ethnicity, religion, or sexual orientation, sexual identity, or disability. Laws against discrimination and hate crime laws are as essential as any aspect of law enforcement.
The left is not anti law enforcement or soft on crime. We do however want the application of the law to be just and equitable. Criminal Justice must be reformed to reduce the prison population of non violent offenders, and to address the issue of racial disparity in arrests, prosecution and sentencing. The death penalty must be abolished . Non violent drug crimes must be treated as a public health problem instead of a criminal matter

3. The earth matters. It is the only one we have and the environment must be protected for our posterity. We must work towards securing renewable non fossil fuel energy sources and combat the misinformation proliferated by the oil and gas industry and the politicians who are in their pockets. Climate change is not a hoax

4. Income and wealth disparity must be revered through a fair, progressive tax and wage structure. A nation that is on the way to a plutocracy and oligarchy will not servive for long. No more tax give aways to the wealth and no more corporate welfare.

6. War and the use of force in the world must be a very last resort, used only when diplomacy fails and the United States is facing a real and grave danger. At the same time, we recognize that the world is a dangerous place and no one country can be safe by embracing isolationism. A network of allies who we can trust, and who can trust us is essential to peace and security as NATO has proven for decades

7. This is a nation built of immigrants . People seeking to come to this country for a better life economically, or to flee strife in their home land should not be shunned or feared. Boarders should be secured using appropriate technology and manpower, not half baked ideas that appeal to a political base and are not practical or cost effective Entire groups should not be marginalized and rejected because of the actions and fanaticism of some. There should be a rational and equitable system for granting asylum while at the same time considering the foreign policies that have destabilized parts af the world that have resulted in mass migration

8. Trade with other nations should be fair, not free, meaning that the consideration of protecting the environment, preventing the exploitation of workers, and consumer safety should be placed over profit and trade deficits

9 .The tenth amendment- often cited by states rights advocates- must be understood in the context of the entire constitution, especially the bill of rights and the 14th amendment. States may not violate the US constitution, and voters do not get to decide matters of civil rights. The federal government has the power and responsibility for actively protecting the health and welfare of all citizens , both from physical harm, and discrimination. This includes consumer and worker protections and labor rights. Financial and insurance institutions must be well regulated in order to prevent another near collapse of the global economy as almost happened in 2008 as the result of greed, and recklessness of the banks. This cannot be left to the states, or to the private sector.

10.Guns must be kept out of the hands of criminals and mentally ill people. High capacity assault weapons must be kept out of the hands of everyone not in th.e military or law enforcement. There must be a national and uniform policy.
11. It is time for the Equal Rights Amendment protecting women from discrimination is ratified, and the passage of the Employment non discrimination, as well as laws addressing discrimination in housing and places of public accommodation for LGBT people.

12. Religious freedom does not mean the ability to use religion as a weapon to discriminate aagainst others. The first amendment applies equally to all, not just conservative Christians who have weaponized religion.

13. Public education must remain free and well funded and without religious beliefs influencing it. Real science, not junk science must be taught. Real history, not white washed revisionist history must also be taught. Meaningful sex education, not abstinence only is a must. It is also critical for education to include critical thinking skills, emotional /social learning and respect and acceptance of those who are different in terms of their sexuality or gender identity. Children are the future

14. Abortion should be rare, but available when necessary. That can be achieved, not by denying women the right to choose, by allowing contraception to be readily available, comprehensive sex education, and by supporting other policies and programs that can prevent unwanted pregnancies and provide social and financial supports to women to choose to carry an unexpected pregnancy to term. Banning abortion, while ignoring the needs of those who are born is not pro-life It is pro-fetus. In addition, while we DO NOT support abortion on demand up to and after birth as we have been accused of, we recognize the need for rationality and flexibility of any restrictions since every case is unique.
.
Peace!!
-__________

At least you took the time to respond intelligently. 1 out of a hundred ain't bad.

Unfortunately, I believe that I HAVE been listening to the lefties on this site and, for the most part, they're either incoherent; uninformed; or have too much idle time on their hands. Very, very rarely does a leftie wish to post a well-thought-out response to anything. Some are better than others.

Whatever America does, it should be based on the rule of law which happens to be the Constitution of the USA. Americans should make an attempt to understand why the Founders found it necessary to part from English rule and to establish our Constitution in the first place. Hindsight is 20/20, as they say.

Quick answers to your numbered responses:

1) All citizens are entitled to seek the necessities of life. They are NOT entitled to take from folks who earned their money and steal it for themselves. Socialist policies seek to steal from people who work for a living and give it to deadbeats and/or illegal invaders.
2) According to the left, only Biden deserves protections. Trump? Not so much. The cop who was accused of "killing" George Floyd? Not so much. Compare the J6 political prisoners to the people who recently protested in the Capitol. A night and day difference.
3) Climate change IS a hoax. The 4 seasons have been a fact of life for centuries. Taxing people to death isn't going to change winter from being winter or summer from being summer.
4) Talented people should be able to use their talents and intelligence to earn an income. Lazy and stupid people shouldn't get equal pay for lesser production. My money is mine ... not yours.
5) No comment.
6) I agree. War should be avoided at all costs. Unfortunately, the warmongers in D.C. (both sides of the aisle) LOVE war and profit off of it. (This is not a leftie policy, by the way).
7) European immigrants built America and created a system that was prosperous and sustainable. Lefties seem hellbent on destroying their (the Founders) vision. But give credit where credit is due. Thank the intelligent minds of the Europeans for the life we enjoy today.
8) You'll have to speak with China (a far left nation) about "fairness" and decent wages along with fair trade. But I agree that international trade should be of equal benefit to all participants based on which each participant brings to the table.
9) State should have more control over their region than the Federal Government and County Governments should have more control over their sub-regions than State Governments. That's how the Founders envisioned it.
10) Laws already exist with the intent of keeping guns out of the hands of criminals. More laws aren't going to change the minds of criminals. Punishing law-abiding citizens for the bad actions of others isn't the answer. Tougher punishment for criminals would be a good start.
11) No Comment.
12) I don't believe in any religion lording itself over others. The Founders agree. But, by the same token, secularists should not "lord" their wokeness over others either. I should never be forced to see "gay marriage" or "transgenderism" as "normal." I believe they stem from a mental and spiritual disorder and it's my right to think it.
13) Education starts in the home. Parents are the first responders and it's their job to be good examples and to teach worthy life lessons. If I disagree with the anti-religious teaching of a "woke" leftie, I should not be forced to pay their wage.
14) Abortion is an abortion, in and of itself. Ripping a baby's limbs from it torso is simply barbaric. End of story.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Here's what is sad about you primitive Republicans. You think this is the best humans can do. So fucking wrong. We're only about 2 steps out of the cave. Just figuring everything out. First we burned coal, gas, then we advance.

They say civilizations have 3 levels. I won't remember all of them but the first civilization figures out how to make fire. Next level figures out how to burn coal and oil. The smarter civilization learns how to tap into the sun.

Evolve. bitch!

Familyism Is Even More Primitive Than Tribalism. Abolish Inheritance!

What is sad is that by the hereditary ruling class's Constitution, we give up 100% support to whichever Preppy Party we vote for. That's why you think I must be a Republican if I hate the Democrats.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

I can't disagree. It does seem like Capitalism is just another ism. We've been raised to worship it.

Capitalism needs to start working better for more people or watch out. The young people won't support a broken ism. Next thing you know they'll be in favor of socialized medicine.

Socialism as Popular as Capitalism Among Young Adults in U.S.

Young adults' reaction to the term "capitalism" has grown less positive over the past decade, while their view of socialism has remained steady.

news.gallup.com

If the Youth Still Believe in Indentured-Servitude Education, Their Rebellion Is Weak

What gives the employers the right to tell us, "To Get a Good Job, Get a Good Education"? We create their jobs and their wealth, so we should be the ones telling them, "To Get the Best Employees, Give the Best Talent the Same Paid-Up Tuition and Adult Allowance You Give Your Fortunate Sons."

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

I can't buy that. Not as a Michigander who had to deal with that Canadian wildfire this summer.

Caused by the Trustfundie Treehuggers Banning Logging

Conservation is hoarding by those who are born rich and will be threatened by the class mobility caused by uninhibited development of natural resources.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

How about put solar panels on our roofs to start. Start there. Small but collectively significant.
e

Green Is the Color of Their Daddies' Money

Pitchfork-skewerable Preppies are behind all this backward-leaning lifestyle they mandate for the plebeians. They love the totalitarian power their hereditary class had back in the stagnant Middle Ages. We need to send them back to the crumbling castles of Europe where they belong.

Caste must be cast into the darkest dungeon and disappear forever. The promise of a "New Order of the Ages" (novus ordo seclorum on your dollar bill) was broken when the Founding Fodder refused to abolish the right to inheritance. Half of them were empowered solely by that; the other half, such as Alexander Hamilton, married into it.

 

[Dadoalex]

Funny!

But absolutely true.

 

[RhodyPatriot]

After years of debating lefties, I still don't really know what motivates them to reach their conclusions.

They don't "reach" any conclusions.

Those are pounded into their skulls via an indoctrination psyop proliferated across the spectrum of education and mass media.

Then they open their mouths (or in this case press their fingers to the keyboards) - and the recycled trash emanates from the mouths of babes.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

The President claimed Americans are flushing their toilets “10 times, 15 times, as opposed to once” and argued that they are having difficulty with washing their hands in what appeared to be a tangent about low-flow sinks and toilets.

“We have a situation where we’re looking very strongly at sinks and showers and other elements of bathrooms where you turn the faucet on – and in areas where there’s tremendous amounts of water, where the water rushes out to sea because you could never handle it, and you don’t get any water,” the President said during a roundtable with small business leaders about deregulatory actions.

“You turn on the faucet and you don’t get any water. They take a shower and water comes dripping out. Just dripping out, very quietly dripping out,” the President continued, lowering his voice as he spoke about the drips. “People are flushing toilets 10 times, 15 times, as opposed to once.”

The Grave of Individuality Is Dug One Little Dig at a Time

The Trustfundie Totalitarians want to dictate every minute of our personal lives. So it is important that the self-appointed rulers go so far as to harass us with petty bathroom regulations.

Trivial but constant annoyances is also why their corporate wing intentionally makes packages hard to open. It's not about saving money—these bloated fat cats already have enough of that—it's the desire to nag that such spoiled-putrid girlymen have to fulfill.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

The social security that comes out of most Americans paychecks happens every week. If you make, I believe the figure is $140,000 all $140k has SS taken out. The $140,001 dollar you’ve made isn’t taxed. I think it would just be peachy if the rich had every dollar they made subject to social security taxes.

Of course the loop hole is that many of the ultra rich don’t really make a salary; they borrow the money they live on and sell stock to repay the loan. Perfectly legal and it gets around the income tax issue since borrowed money is not income.

View attachment 848928

The Secret IRS Files: Trove of Never-Before-Seen Records Reveal How the Wealthiest Avoid Income Tax

ProPublica has obtained a vast cache of IRS information showing how billionaires like Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk and Warren Buffett pay little in income tax compared to their massive wealth — sometimes, even nothing.

www.propublica.org

It’s all currently legal. It goes to show that the old adage is true; it’s not what is illegal that is troublesome..it’s what is legal.

Now of course we are constantly told that the taxes would mean that everything downstream from A-Z will “skyrocket” in costs. Yeah sure. We heard the same thing about the minimum wage and $15 an hour being a death sentence to businesses. Some fast food franchisees and retailers now offer $15 an hour to start.

View attachment 848931


View attachment 848932

So yeah...the scare tactics are not authentic. But they will continue...no doubt.

Man Up and Take the Upper Class Down

Taxing away all inheritance over $100,000 is the only answer for those who don't identify as serfs. Both on the Right and the Left, gutless buttboys love the glitter of the guillotine-fodder richboys.

 

[candycorn]

2) According to the left, only Biden deserves protections. Trump? Not so much. The cop who was accused of "killing" George Floyd? Not so much. Compare the J6 political prisoners to the people who recently protested in the Capitol. A night and day difference.

Yeah...you guys injured 140 cops to stop an election you lost from becoming certified. The people who recently protested at the capitol didn’t do that.

Please quote “the left” about the protections that Biden supposedly deserves.