Question for Left-Leaning Individuals: Democrats, Socialists, Liberals, Marxists, Communists, Big-Government, One-Worlders, Etc.

[martybegan]

Nearly 90 percent of all Israeli households use solar thermal energy to heat their water, and many building are entirely powered by the sun. The arid country is not only a world leader in solar thermal energy use, but also in water recycling and clean technology.Mar 18, 2011
Reuters | Breaking International News & Views › article › i...
Israel's Special Relationship with the Solar Water Heater - Reuters

Solar hot water is very popular in Hawaii and works like a charm in South Carolina and Georgia.

Again, desert, tropical island, deep south.

 

[martybegan]

So at WORST… you won’t be able to buy a hybrid I’m 2035

That's right around my current cycle for needed a new vehicle, and unless you can fill a battery as fast as you fill a gas tank, I'm being forced to buy an inferior product.

I got 12 years out of my last car, an EV would need a battery replacement in half that.

 

[Dadoalex]

This is a legitimate question for anyone who considers himself/herself a "left-leaning" person.

I realize that not all left-leaning folks agree with each other on all issues. Same is true of Conservatives (although I believe that we're more willing to voice our disagreements than lefties are). But generally speaking, what is it about the left's ideology or philosophy that appeals to you the most? List a few things that you truly believe the left has right as opposed to the counterpoints offered by the right.

The Left
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

The Right
Do unto others, take what they got, then make sure you're seen praying.

Really not that difficult.

 

[d0gbreath]

After years of debating lefties, I still don't really know what motivates them to reach their conclusions. I feel that it's more their hatred for the right than it is a love for anything on the left. But I'm legitimately curious.

Keeping y'all in the dark, is a favorite Leftest pastime. Good luck!

 

[Lesh]

That's right around my current cycle for needed a new vehicle, and unless you can fill a battery as fast as you fill a gas tank, I'm being forced to buy an inferior product.

I got 12 years out of my last car, an EV would need a battery replacement in half that.

Not a hybrid. My kid has a 2001 Prius still going strong on original battery

 

[SaxonJackson]

Keeping y'all in the dark, is a favorite Leftest pastime. Good luck!

Well ... you are masters of living in darkness.

 

[Laslow]

The social security that comes out of most Americans paychecks happens every week. If you make, I believe the figure is $140,000 all $140k has SS taken out. The $140,001 dollar you’ve made isn’t taxed. I think it would just be peachy if the rich had every dollar they made subject to social security taxes.

Of course the loop hole is that many of the ultra rich don’t really make a salary; they borrow the money they live on and sell stock to repay the loan. Perfectly legal and it gets around the income tax issue since borrowed money is not income.

View attachment 848928

The Secret IRS Files: Trove of Never-Before-Seen Records Reveal How the Wealthiest Avoid Income Tax

ProPublica has obtained a vast cache of IRS information showing how billionaires like Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk and Warren Buffett pay little in income tax compared to their massive wealth — sometimes, even nothing.

www.propublica.org

It’s all currently legal. It goes to show that the old adage is true; it’s not what is illegal that is troublesome..it’s what is legal.

Now of course we are constantly told that the taxes would mean that everything downstream from A-Z will “skyrocket” in costs. Yeah sure. We heard the same thing about the minimum wage and $15 an hour being a death sentence to businesses. Some fast food franchisees and retailers now offer $15 an hour to start.

View attachment 848931


View attachment 848932

So yeah...the scare tactics are not authentic. But they will continue...no doubt.

Thanks for the response. If loopholes were closed, would that be considered enough? It seems many think that would be a miracle cure for everything. I would have to think the left wants more from the wealthy than simply closing loopholes. Considering they pay for just about everything, I'm curious what more they desire.

 

[SaxonJackson]

Thanks for the response. If loopholes were closed, would that be considered enough? It seems many think that would be a miracle cure for everything. I would have to think the left wants more from the wealthy than simply closing loopholes. Considering they pay for just about everything, I'm curious what more they desire.

The left will never be satisfied. America has never been this far left in her history (save the FDR era, perhaps) and yet it isn't enough for leftists. They want absolute control of everything and everybody and if they ever achieve that goal, it still won't be enough. It's why I'm so interested to find out what actually motivates them. I asked but have only received a couple of fairly straight answers.

 

[jbander]

^^ From someone too stupid to offer a legitimate response. Par for the course. ^^

How do people supose to react or respond to total ignorance. I can tell you are stupid I guess but other then that what response do you think your ignorance deserves.

 

[jbander]

The Left
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

The Right
Do unto others, take what they got, then make sure you're seen praying.

Really not that difficult.

Funny!

 

[SaxonJackson]

How do people supose to react or respond to total ignorance. I can tell you are stupid I guess but other then that what response do you think your ignorance deserves.

Using the term "ignorance" repeatedly isn't going to make YOU sound any less ignorant. Either try to make a point or stop interrupting the adults.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Isn't trickle down just the nature of economic growth? I'm not sure I understand the supposed slander of this term. Wealth creates jobs, period. That is just how it works. You can try to force companies to be fair, but saying money doesn't flow from top down is bizarre,

Laissez Faire Kleptocrats Call Trickle Down "Gold Water"

 

[jbander]

Using the term "ignorance" repeatedly isn't going to make YOU sound any less ignorant. Either try to make a point or stop interrupting the adults.

God you are boring you dumb ****. When you contribute something I will respond to it. Something I believe you are incapable of doing. You have nothing , that's the reason you are called ignorant. You own the title microbe.

 

[Rigby5]

This is a legitimate question for anyone who considers himself/herself a "left-leaning" person.

I realize that not all left-leaning folks agree with each other on all issues. Same is true of Conservatives (although I believe that we're more willing to voice our disagreements than lefties are). But generally speaking, what is it about the left's ideology or philosophy that appeals to you the most? List a few things that you truly believe the left has right as opposed to the counterpoints offered by the right.

The way I look at it, the big corporations have total control over us, and we get no say.
If instead we were to socialize, like health care, then we would have some control and say over what they could charge and do.

The right is correct to worry about the dangers of big government, and local control is always desirable.
But big corporations are more of the threat to our rights than any government could ever be, as long as we are allowed to still vote.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

But to continue, leftists are usually much better educated/much less ignorant.

Mind-Raped by Pedagogic Pedophiles

Getting your brains shrink-wrapped by Grand-Inquisitor professors is not "education."

 

[jbander]

This is a legitimate question for anyone who considers himself/herself a "left-leaning" person.

I realize that not all left-leaning folks agree with each other on all issues. Same is true of Conservatives (although I believe that we're more willing to voice our disagreements than lefties are). But generally speaking, what is it about the left's ideology or philosophy that appeals to you the most? List a few things that you truly believe the left has right as opposed to the counterpoints offered by the right.

Voted the most stupid lying piece of nonsense for this month . voted on by both party's and it was the overall winner of the most stupid contest. Not one word of truth and the lies are just brain dead attempts to paint a picture out of all colors of stupidity. This is funny!

 

[Rigby5]

Liberty. That's the biggie. We reject fascism, the right embraces fascism.
Economic success.
Foreign policy success.
Embracing actual reality instead of PartyPropaganda.
Supporting the Rule of Law.
Putting country before party.
Being competent.
Not being whimpering snowflakes.
Not roasting in the special hell for all of eternity.

Not sure it is that cut and dried.
For example, libertarians support the most liberty of all.
Trouble is that much "liberty" can lead to abusive monopolies.

As far as "party propaganda", all sides come off pretty bad.
Vietnam was LBJs war more than it was Nixon's.
Hillary was pushing the WMD lies about Iraq.
ACA was awful and mandated private health insurance.
Biden's involvement in the Maidan coup in the Ukraine was awful.
Obama spread the Arab Spring lies into Libya, Syria, etc.

 

[Rigby5]

The 80'S Military buildup was the nail that broke the board. Deny all you want.

90's new york improved vastly, giving us the NY of the 2000's and early 2010's until DeBlasio fucked it up

Hamas' attack was in response to the accords, as a last gasp because they were removed from the peace process.

Figured you would dismiss them all with tired SJW hackery.

Your responses have been measured, and found wanting.

Agree with most, but not so sure about the NY 90s?
Wasn't that Guiliani, with his stop and frisk nonsense?

 

[SaxonJackson]

Voted the most stupid lying piece of nonsense for this month . voted on by both party's and it was the overall winner of the most stupid contest. Not one word of truth and the lies are just brain dead attempts to paint a picture out of all colors of stupidity. This is funny!

What are you babbling about this time?!?!

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

This is a legitimate question for anyone who considers himself/herself a "left-leaning" person.

I realize that not all left-leaning folks agree with each other on all issues. Same is true of Conservatives (although I believe that we're more willing to voice our disagreements than lefties are). But generally speaking, what is it about the left's ideology or philosophy that appeals to you the most? List a few things that you truly believe the left has right as opposed to the counterpoints offered by the right.

Really? If you still don’t understand us “lefties” it is because you have not been listening. And you have not been listening because you know that you won’t like what you hear, so you pretend to not understand or just tune it out. The fact is that our positions on various issues have deep historical roots going back to the early days of the 20th century and the advent of the progressive movement. That movement, championed by Teddy Roosevelt , originated the concept that government can and should exist as an instrument that improves the lives of citizens. A fundamental difference between conservatives and liberals is this: Conservatives proport to champion small and unobtrusive government, liberals take the position that it is not the size of government that matters, rather it is what government does, who benefits or is hurt by it, and how well does it do what it does.

Along those same lines is the prevalent mindset among conservatives is that government exists as an end in itself to perpetuate it’s own existence, with limited powers and effect on the every day lives of people. However the problem with that view ....and this seems to be a more recent phenomena is that it reeks with hypocrisy. Conservatives preach limited government, until that philosophy bumps up against certain issues that they need to control such who can marry who, reproductive rights, and religious freedom. They largely reject same sex marriage, gender affirming care, women's domain over her body, while supporting the idea that people can weaponize religion as an excuse to discriminate with the support of government. Conservatives used to stand for small government and fiscal responsibility. Today’s crop of conservatives stand for neither in any consistent or coherent way

Having said that, it largely comes down to-not so much an issue of who is right and who is wrong- but rather a matter of what is one’s vision for what the country should be. We on the left envision an inclusive and humanistic society while from my perspective, others are content with a society that expects everyone to fend for themselves subject to the fickle forces of nature, economy, and geo-political instability.

I made this list on progressive principles some time ago. Thank you for inspiring me to update it and elaborate on it now. I only ask that you respond thoughtfully with the recognition that they are based on deeply held values and are not frivolous or arbitrary . Please explain exactly why you might oppose each of these points, and provide and alternative viewpoint based on your clearly defined values that is reasonable and workable and not simply based on a knee jerk opposition to the “left”
Thank you in advance
Progressive Principles and Goals. Progressive Patriot (Updated 10.25.23)
(These are my own thoughts based on my understanding of progressive philosophy, humanistic principles, a connectedness to the world and Democratic ideals )

1. All citizens and legal residents are entitled to sufficient shelter, food, water or health care, and government policies and programs should reflect that. No one should have to work more than one full time job to pay the bills, while CEOs make obscene amounts of money that cannot be justified. In a free market economy where demands for labor fluctuate and compensation is only minimally regulated, the workforce is subject to the whims and uncertainties of the marketplace. A social safety net and subsidies are required to maintain a healthy and available labor pool which is actually the life blood of capitalism which we on the left actually support, albeit with regulations and support

2. All people should enjoy equal protection under the law. No one should suffer from discrimination, humiliation or violence because of their race, ethnicity, religion, or sexual orientation, sexual identity, or disability. Laws against discrimination and hate crime laws are as essential as any aspect of law enforcement.
The left is not anti law enforcement or soft on crime. We do however want the application of the law to be just and equitable. Criminal Justice must be reformed to reduce the prison population of non violent offenders, and to address the issue of racial disparity in arrests, prosecution and sentencing. The death penalty must be abolished . Non violent drug crimes must be treated as a public health problem instead of a criminal matter

3. The earth matters. It is the only one we have and the environment must be protected for our posterity. We must work towards securing renewable non fossil fuel energy sources and combat the misinformation proliferated by the oil and gas industry and the politicians who are in their pockets. Climate change is not a hoax

4. Income and wealth disparity must be revered through a fair, progressive tax and wage structure. A nation that is on the way to a plutocracy and oligarchy will not servive for long. No more tax give aways to the wealth and no more corporate welfare.

6. War and the use of force in the world must be a very last resort, used only when diplomacy fails and the United States is facing a real and grave danger. At the same time, we recognize that the world is a dangerous place and no one country can be safe by embracing isolationism. A network of allies who we can trust, and who can trust us is essential to peace and security as NATO has proven for decades

7. This is a nation built of immigrants . People seeking to come to this country for a better life economically, or to flee strife in their home land should not be shunned or feared. Boarders should be secured using appropriate technology and manpower, not half baked ideas that appeal to a political base and are not practical or cost effective Entire groups should not be marginalized and rejected because of the actions and fanaticism of some. There should be a rational and equitable system for granting asylum while at the same time considering the foreign policies that have destabilized parts af the world that have resulted in mass migration

8. Trade with other nations should be fair, not free, meaning that the consideration of protecting the environment, preventing the exploitation of workers, and consumer safety should be placed over profit and trade deficits

9 .The tenth amendment- often cited by states rights advocates- must be understood in the context of the entire constitution, especially the bill of rights and the 14th amendment. States may not violate the US constitution, and voters do not get to decide matters of civil rights. The federal government has the power and responsibility for actively protecting the health and welfare of all citizens , both from physical harm, and discrimination. This includes consumer and worker protections and labor rights. Financial and insurance institutions must be well regulated in order to prevent another near collapse of the global economy as almost happened in 2008 as the result of greed, and recklessness of the banks. This cannot be left to the states, or to the private sector.

10.Guns must be kept out of the hands of criminals and mentally ill people. High capacity assault weapons must be kept out of the hands of everyone not in th.e military or law enforcement. There must be a national and uniform policy.
11. It is time for the Equal Rights Amendment protecting women from discrimination is ratified, and the passage of the Employment non discrimination, as well as laws addressing discrimination in housing and places of public accommodation for LGBT people.

12. Religious freedom does not mean the ability to use religion as a weapon to discriminate aagainst others. The first amendment applies equally to all, not just conservative Christians who have weaponized religion.

13. Public education must remain free and well funded and without religious beliefs influencing it. Real science, not junk science must be taught. Real history, not white washed revisionist history must also be taught. Meaningful sex education, not abstinence only is a must. It is also critical for education to include critical thinking skills, emotional /social learning and respect and acceptance of those who are different in terms of their sexuality or gender identity. Children are the future

14. Abortion should be rare, but available when necessary. That can be achieved, not by denying women the right to choose, by allowing contraception to be readily available, comprehensive sex education, and by supporting other policies and programs that can prevent unwanted pregnancies and provide social and financial supports to women to choose to carry an unexpected pregnancy to term. Banning abortion, while ignoring the needs of those who are born is not pro-life It is pro-fetus. In addition, while we DO NOT support abortion on demand up to and after birth as we have been accused of, we recognize the need for rationality and flexibility of any restrictions since every case is unique.
.
Peace!!
-__________