What's new
US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Question for conservatives and Liberals

jtw4796

Rookie
Joined
Sep 29, 2011
Messages
37
Reaction score
4
Points
1
I consider the Debt to be the biggest problem facing this country.
If so how are the liberals going to help this when they refuse to consider that we must find a way to cut the number of people on food stamps, welfare, and getting help with health insurance. the only thing I hear them even thinking about cutting is the military budget which says that they like a weak Military. One other thing to the Liberals even though you will not admit it there are people that are lazy and think the country owes them a living.

Now for the Conservatives how can you bring down the debt when you refuse to Raise taxes on the rich. I continue to hear that there has never been 1 job created by rich tax cuts.

My feeling is that we need a Tax increase on the rich as well as some cuts to welfare programs. Personally I feel we need to tell everyone getting welfare that unless they are disabled they will lose their benefits after 5 years. also that anyone found with illegal drugs and even pot you lose benefits Immediately. I also think we need a tax increase on the rich, a law that says you cannot use earned income credit to get back more than you paid in, and a Dollar tax on everyone in your family that increases as your income goes up to be used to pay down the Debt.
 

Billy000

Democratic Socialist
Joined
Nov 10, 2011
Messages
25,313
Reaction score
6,322
Points
290
Location
Colorado
I consider the Debt to be the biggest problem facing this country.
If so how are the liberals going to help this when they refuse to consider that we must find a way to cut the number of people on food stamps, welfare, and getting help with health insurance. the only thing I hear them even thinking about cutting is the military budget which says that they like a weak Military. One other thing to the Liberals even though you will not admit it there are people that are lazy and think the country owes them a living.

Now for the Conservatives how can you bring down the debt when you refuse to Raise taxes on the rich. I continue to hear that there has never been 1 job created by rich tax cuts.

My feeling is that we need a Tax increase on the rich as well as some cuts to welfare programs. Personally I feel we need to tell everyone getting welfare that unless they are disabled they will lose their benefits after 5 years. also that anyone found with illegal drugs and even pot you lose benefits Immediately. I also think we need a tax increase on the rich, a law that says you cannot use earned income credit to get back more than you paid in, and a Dollar tax on everyone in your family that increases as your income goes up to be used to pay down the Debt.
Cutting people on food stamps would do next to nothing to pay down the debt. You're talking about an expense that costs 70 billion a year.

The reason we should cut defense is because of the amount of waste in it. Say what you want about welfare, but it still serves a purpose. Could it be cut? Yes, but cutting cheap programs like food stamp or TANF that serve a dire purpose would be a mistake. Those people make peanuts and get peanuts in benefits. 83% of the households on it have at least one child in the home. They make, on average, $733 per month. They get in benefits, on average, $133 per month per person.
 
Last edited:

BULLDOG

Diamond Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2014
Messages
73,691
Reaction score
14,755
Points
2,180
I consider the Debt to be the biggest problem facing this country.
If so how are the liberals going to help this when they refuse to consider that we must find a way to cut the number of people on food stamps, welfare, and getting help with health insurance. the only thing I hear them even thinking about cutting is the military budget which says that they like a weak Military. One other thing to the Liberals even though you will not admit it there are people that are lazy and think the country owes them a living.

Now for the Conservatives how can you bring down the debt when you refuse to Raise taxes on the rich. I continue to hear that there has never been 1 job created by rich tax cuts.

My feeling is that we need a Tax increase on the rich as well as some cuts to welfare programs. Personally I feel we need to tell everyone getting welfare that unless they are disabled they will lose their benefits after 5 years. also that anyone found with illegal drugs and even pot you lose benefits Immediately. I also think we need a tax increase on the rich, a law that says you cannot use earned income credit to get back more than you paid in, and a Dollar tax on everyone in your family that increases as your income goes up to be used to pay down the Debt.


Cutting military programs that the military says they don't want or need will not weaken them.
 

amrchaos

Pentheus torn apart
Joined
Nov 1, 2008
Messages
9,498
Reaction score
933
Points
215
Location
Miami
Don't forget, there re a whole lot of programs you could cut thas nothing to do with Welfare or Defense.

Come to think about it, didn't the Gingrich Congress focus on government wide cuts, and not just welfare reform? Yes, yes they did!

It can be done--but you need some strong fiscal minded individuals in government first. To get that,voters have to recognize the need for them
 

candycorn

Alis volat propriis
Joined
Aug 25, 2009
Messages
77,220
Reaction score
18,295
Points
2,180
I consider the Debt to be the biggest problem facing this country.
If so how are the liberals going to help this when they refuse to consider that we must find a way to cut the number of people on food stamps, welfare, and getting help with health insurance. the only thing I hear them even thinking about cutting is the military budget which says that they like a weak Military. One other thing to the Liberals even though you will not admit it there are people that are lazy and think the country owes them a living.
You're going to get a lot of "you're painting with too broad a brush" responses from those who respond with some thought.

I feel that way too but I understand why it is done.

Here is what I think:

There are too many people on welfare. I think we can do 3 things we could do tomorrow to get them off of welfare.

First and foremost, we have got to stop imprisoning people for minor drug charges; charging incessant fines and penalties to arrested or guilty persons, and thirdly reserve prison cells for those who are dangers to society; not those whose behavior we find troublesome. What this will do is allow people to keep their jobs, continue to pay taxes, support their families, etc... I favor drug testing for those who are getting assistance with warnings for the first "hit", penalties for the second, and lastly, you lose your kids and freedom. I would say legalize some drugs to increase the tax base and get the crime element out of the manufacturing and distribution end.

Secondly, the reason there are so many on SS disability is because the federal government acts in the following way: Of all applicants 2/3 are denied SS disability on average. So that means if you me and Julio apply for SSD, You will get it, me and Julio will not on average. Then Julio and I can both appeal the decision. Of the appeals, there is an 8 of 10 chance (if memory serves) of Julio or I getting the SSD approved.

Two things here: The SSD is retroactive to our first application so if there are 2 years between the application and the appeal and the decision overturning the rejection, we get 2 years of SSD benefits sent to us (minus lawyer fees). The 2nd thing is that to have the rejection overturned, SSD holds a hearing that Julio and I may or may not attend if we send an attorney. You know who the government sends? Nobody. The judge is the sole arbiter of whether Julio or I were disabled.
This isn't a new phenomenon...disability is a nebulous term. What disables me may not disable Julio. Julio may be scared of bright lights or loud sounds. I may have a bad back. You may have had high blood pressure. All 3 can be disabling. All 3 can be rejected as causes of disability.

If you have a long drive ahead of you some day--about an hour or so--I encourage you to download this to a player and listen to it:

490: Trends With Benefits

Your blood will boil--which may be a disability. lol

We need to start sending lawyers to these hearings to sniff out those abusing the system. I'm not here to take a shot at conserveatives but one of the key ways that the GOP governors are showing "surpluses" in their states is (in addition to poisoning the water supplies) to move people from State disability to Federal SSD. The episode above of TAL describes it beautifully.

The third thing we must do is start from zero and get serious about what types of aid we give to people. I had people in Southern Louisiana back in the 1990's--relatives of friends. They would offer me farina, powdered milk, grits, and biscuit mixes. They were called "commodities". I recall several times my using the commodities to stretch my paychecks. As I understand it, we pay farmers not to grow, people not to work, and give cash to people to buy biscuits and milk. It seems as though we can stop paying folks to not do things and start to feed people.






Now for the Conservatives how can you bring down the debt when you refuse to Raise taxes on the rich. I continue to hear that there has never been 1 job created by rich tax cuts.

My feeling is that we need a Tax increase on the rich as well as some cuts to welfare programs. Personally I feel we need to tell everyone getting welfare that unless they are disabled they will lose their benefits after 5 years. also that anyone found with illegal drugs and even pot you lose benefits Immediately. I also think we need a tax increase on the rich, a law that says you cannot use earned income credit to get back more than you paid in, and a Dollar tax on everyone in your family that increases as your income goes up to be used to pay down the Debt.[/QUOTE]
 

ScienceRocks

Democrat all the way!
Joined
Mar 16, 2010
Messages
59,455
Reaction score
6,765
Points
1,900
Location
The Good insane United states of America
I'd have a massive investigation into where all the money is going and would cut the shit out of waste. Next I'd close all the loop holes on the top 5% of the population and reduce the military budget 100 billion...

I'd do this before cutting a single red cent out of infrastructure, science, r&d and education! I'd pull every goddamn troop out of foreign lands before I'd do that.
 

my2¢

So it goes
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2010
Messages
11,108
Reaction score
2,755
Points
290
Location
State 48
I'm willing to compromise on this. As a conservative I don't believe in giving the government access to more money when neither political party has shown ability to live within its means. Therefore, before raising taxes let the president and congress show they're capable to handle what they currently receive. Then and only then they should create an amortization schedule strictly funded by those new taxes which should only go towards these past debts.

One way to achieve this is a 5% tax on incomes over $1 million only imposed when the last fiscal year did not result in deficit spending. That would be my compromise.
 

elektra

Gold Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2013
Messages
9,311
Reaction score
1,355
Points
255
Location
Temecula California
How about firing all government employees, teachers, everyone.

Then get rid of every government program.

And all taxes at all levels.

And tell the world to go to hell, they have profited from the USA way too long.

Tell all the people holding are debt to pass it out as toilet paper.
 
OP
J

jtw4796

Rookie
Joined
Sep 29, 2011
Messages
37
Reaction score
4
Points
1
Thanks for your replies. Honestly I am tore this year. I may not vote because I see no one I even kind of like.
My take on the top candidates:
Clinton-. Will not consider because of her husband. See I was in textiles in the 90s and remember how NAFTA destroyed textiles and how much I was unemployed.
Sanders- feel he would bankrupt the country
Bush- We do not need another Bush.
Trump- Do not trust him. too wishy washy He changes positions too much.
Cruz- would not work with the Democrats. To closely aligned with the tea party.
Rubio- My favorite so far but heard bad things about his tax plan.

We need people in washington willing to work together and compromise.
 

LoneLaugher

Diamond Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2011
Messages
61,304
Reaction score
9,443
Points
2,040
Location
Inside Mac's Head
I consider the Debt to be the biggest problem facing this country.
If so how are the liberals going to help this when they refuse to consider that we must find a way to cut the number of people on food stamps, welfare, and getting help with health insurance. the only thing I hear them even thinking about cutting is the military budget which says that they like a weak Military. One other thing to the Liberals even though you will not admit it there are people that are lazy and think the country owes them a living.

Now for the Conservatives how can you bring down the debt when you refuse to Raise taxes on the rich. I continue to hear that there has never been 1 job created by rich tax cuts.

My feeling is that we need a Tax increase on the rich as well as some cuts to welfare programs. Personally I feel we need to tell everyone getting welfare that unless they are disabled they will lose their benefits after 5 years. also that anyone found with illegal drugs and even pot you lose benefits Immediately. I also think we need a tax increase on the rich, a law that says you cannot use earned income credit to get back more than you paid in, and a Dollar tax on everyone in your family that increases as your income goes up to be used to pay down the Debt.

Please answer the question in my sig line to the best of your ability. Once you do, we can begin to have a serious discussion about how to reduce the debt.
 

Mac1958

Diamond Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2011
Messages
85,156
Reaction score
29,372
Points
2,280
Location
Opposing Authoritarian Ideological Fundamentalism.
I consider the Debt to be the biggest problem facing this country...
I wouldn't put it at #1, but it's up there. We're spending around a quarter of a trillion annually just to service our debt, and when interest rates finally do go up, new debt will.... well, that's gonna be bad. The predictable result of politicians from both parties, unrestricted by either a Balanced Budget Amendment or term limits, spending like a 16-year old girl with Dad's Gold Card to buy votes and influence. What would we expect? Allowing this is our OWN fault.

My feeling is that we need a Tax increase on the rich as well as some cuts to welfare programs.
Welfare programs are a relatively small part of the overall budget. Welfare is a cultural issue to me, not a fiscal problem.

There are places in the economy where we can find new tax revenue, and places where we can clearly goose business/hiring/economic growth to create significant new personal income tax revenue:

Add four new personal income tax margins and establish minimum effective tax rates so that we don't have billionaires paying lower tax rates than their receptionists. At the top of the scale, add 44.9%, 49.9%, 54.9% and 59.9% rates, with 30%, 35%, 40% and 45% minimum effective tax rates, respectively.

Then drop corporate income tax rates to 12% with a 5% effective tax rate minimum and establish a two-year moratorium on the repatriation of overseas dollars. Not only would that bring trillions back into the economy, it would incentivize huge new overseas investment domestically. Massive. The money is just sitting there, waiting to go SOMEWHERE.

The problem with this plan, of course, is that the right wingers would have a freakin' stroke over the personal income tax rates and the left wingers would have a freakin' stroke over the corporate income tax rates.

And, come to think of it, it might be that the wingers on both ends are our #1 problem.
.
 
Last edited:

LoneLaugher

Diamond Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2011
Messages
61,304
Reaction score
9,443
Points
2,040
Location
Inside Mac's Head
I consider the Debt to be the biggest problem facing this country...
I wouldn't put it at #1, but it's up there. We're spending around a quarter of a trillion annually just to service our debt, and when interest rates finally do go up, new debt will.... well, that's gonna be bad. The predictable result of politicians from both parties, unrestricted by either a Balanced Budget Amendment or term limits, spending like a 16-year old girl with Dad's Gold Card to buy votes and influence. What would we expect?

My feeling is that we need a Tax increase on the rich as well as some cuts to welfare programs.
Welfare programs are a relatively small part of the overall budget. Welfare is a cultural issue to me, not a fiscal problem.

There are places in the economy where we can find new tax revenue, and places where we can clearly goose business/hiring/economic growth to create significant new personal income tax revenue:

Add four new personal income tax margins and establish minimum effective tax rates so that we don't have billionaires paying lower tax rates than their receptionists. At the top of the scale, add 44.9%, 49.9%, 54.9% and 59.9% rates, with 30%, 35%, 40% and 45% minimum effective tax rates, respectively.

Then drop corporate income tax rates to 12% with a 5% effective tax rate minimum and establish a two-year moratorium on the repatriation of overseas dollars. Not only would that bring trillions back into the economy, it would incentivize huge new overseas investment domestically. Massive. The money is just sitting there, waiting to go SOMEWHERE.

The problem with this plan, of course, is that the right wingers would have a freakin' stroke over the personal income tax rates and the left wingers would have a freakin' stroke over the corporate income tax rates.

And, come to think of it, it might be that the wingers on both ends are our #1 problem.
.

Excellent. Another post where Mac admits that I am not a "winger". I have no issue with those corporate income tax rates. Although....I'd like to see some provisions to ensure that corporations reinvest a portion of profits into their labor force.
 
Last edited:

defcon4

Platinum Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2015
Messages
19,944
Reaction score
8,414
Points
950
I consider the Debt to be the biggest problem facing this country.
If so how are the liberals going to help this when they refuse to consider that we must find a way to cut the number of people on food stamps, welfare, and getting help with health insurance. the only thing I hear them even thinking about cutting is the military budget which says that they like a weak Military. One other thing to the Liberals even though you will not admit it there are people that are lazy and think the country owes them a living.

Now for the Conservatives how can you bring down the debt when you refuse to Raise taxes on the rich. I continue to hear that there has never been 1 job created by rich tax cuts.

My feeling is that we need a Tax increase on the rich as well as some cuts to welfare programs. Personally I feel we need to tell everyone getting welfare that unless they are disabled they will lose their benefits after 5 years. also that anyone found with illegal drugs and even pot you lose benefits Immediately. I also think we need a tax increase on the rich, a law that says you cannot use earned income credit to get back more than you paid in, and a Dollar tax on everyone in your family that increases as your income goes up to be used to pay down the Debt.
Stop giveaway spending for buying votes.
 

candycorn

Alis volat propriis
Joined
Aug 25, 2009
Messages
77,220
Reaction score
18,295
Points
2,180
I consider the Debt to be the biggest problem facing this country...
I wouldn't put it at #1, but it's up there. We're spending around a quarter of a trillion annually just to service our debt, and when interest rates finally do go up, new debt will.... well, that's gonna be bad. The predictable result of politicians from both parties, unrestricted by either a Balanced Budget Amendment or term limits, spending like a 16-year old girl with Dad's Gold Card to buy votes and influence. What would we expect?

My feeling is that we need a Tax increase on the rich as well as some cuts to welfare programs.
Welfare programs are a relatively small part of the overall budget. Welfare is a cultural issue to me, not a fiscal problem.

There are places in the economy where we can find new tax revenue, and places where we can clearly goose business/hiring/economic growth to create significant new personal income tax revenue:

Add four new personal income tax margins and establish minimum effective tax rates so that we don't have billionaires paying lower tax rates than their receptionists. At the top of the scale, add 44.9%, 49.9%, 54.9% and 59.9% rates, with 30%, 35%, 40% and 45% minimum effective tax rates, respectively.

Then drop corporate income tax rates to 12% with a 5% effective tax rate minimum and establish a two-year moratorium on the repatriation of overseas dollars. Not only would that bring trillions back into the economy, it would incentivize huge new overseas investment domestically. Massive. The money is just sitting there, waiting to go SOMEWHERE.

The problem with this plan, of course, is that the right wingers would have a freakin' stroke over the personal income tax rates and the left wingers would have a freakin' stroke over the corporate income tax rates.

And, come to think of it, it might be that the wingers on both ends are our #1 problem.
.

Excellent. Another post where Mac admits that I am not a "left winger". I have no issue with those corporate income tax rates. Although....I'd like to see some provisions to ensure that corporations reinvest a portion of profits into their labor force.

Me too. I have no problem with those income tax rates.
 

LoneLaugher

Diamond Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2011
Messages
61,304
Reaction score
9,443
Points
2,040
Location
Inside Mac's Head
I consider the Debt to be the biggest problem facing this country...
I wouldn't put it at #1, but it's up there. We're spending around a quarter of a trillion annually just to service our debt, and when interest rates finally do go up, new debt will.... well, that's gonna be bad. The predictable result of politicians from both parties, unrestricted by either a Balanced Budget Amendment or term limits, spending like a 16-year old girl with Dad's Gold Card to buy votes and influence. What would we expect?

My feeling is that we need a Tax increase on the rich as well as some cuts to welfare programs.
Welfare programs are a relatively small part of the overall budget. Welfare is a cultural issue to me, not a fiscal problem.

There are places in the economy where we can find new tax revenue, and places where we can clearly goose business/hiring/economic growth to create significant new personal income tax revenue:

Add four new personal income tax margins and establish minimum effective tax rates so that we don't have billionaires paying lower tax rates than their receptionists. At the top of the scale, add 44.9%, 49.9%, 54.9% and 59.9% rates, with 30%, 35%, 40% and 45% minimum effective tax rates, respectively.

Then drop corporate income tax rates to 12% with a 5% effective tax rate minimum and establish a two-year moratorium on the repatriation of overseas dollars. Not only would that bring trillions back into the economy, it would incentivize huge new overseas investment domestically. Massive. The money is just sitting there, waiting to go SOMEWHERE.

The problem with this plan, of course, is that the right wingers would have a freakin' stroke over the personal income tax rates and the left wingers would have a freakin' stroke over the corporate income tax rates.

And, come to think of it, it might be that the wingers on both ends are our #1 problem.
.

Excellent. Another post where Mac admits that I am not a "left winger". I have no issue with those corporate income tax rates. Although....I'd like to see some provisions to ensure that corporations reinvest a portion of profits into their labor force.

Me too. I have no problem with those income tax rates.

Anything that incentivizes very wealthy people to reinvest profits into things other than their own bank account is a positive for the nation.
 

USMB Server Goals

Total amount
$515.00
Goal
$350.00

New Topics

Most reactions - Past 7 days

Forum List

Top