Zone1 Question for Christians

[hadit]

So your god cares more about a murderer's freedom of choice than he does about the lives of innocents.

Like I said that is not a god that deserves to be worshiped

That's because you think death is the worst thing that can happen to someone. Why do you not care about child abuse, rape, slavery, etc. and want God to stop them too?

 

[Blues Man]

That's because you think death is the worst thing that can happen to someone. Why do you not care about child abuse, rape, slavery, etc. and want God to stop them too?

It is.

Why wouldn't your god stop INNOCENT people from being victimized?

Because he doesn't really give a shit that's why.

You don't let people you supposedly love be victimized.

 

[hadit]

It is.

Why wouldn't your god stop INNOCENT people from being victimized?

Because he doesn't really give a shit that's why.

You don't let people you supposedly love be victimized.

IOW, God is supposed to step in to prevent bad things from happening to good people. You know that's been thoroughly hashed, rehashed and settled a long time ago, right? There would be no need for faith, to start, if everyone who became a Christian suddenly started leading a charmed life, and no one was ever hurt by anything until they reached a certain age, etc. You want to be protected from bad things? Become a Christian. Of course, you'd wonder why bad things kept happening when you faked it.

Evil-doers also are God's concern, and He wants them to come to Him as well. If He takes away their freedom of choice, they really can't do that. Naturally, here's where you start saying that murder victims are exercising their freedom of choice.

 

[Blues Man]

IOW, God is supposed to step in to prevent bad things from happening to good people. You know that's been thoroughly hashed, rehashed and settled a long time ago, right? There would be no need for faith, to start, if everyone who became a Christian suddenly started leading a charmed life, and no one was ever hurt by anything until they reached a certain age, etc. You want to be protected from bad things? Become a Christian. Of course, you'd wonder why bad things kept happening when you faked it.

Evil-doers also are God's concern, and He wants them to come to Him as well. If He takes away their freedom of choice, they really can't do that. Naturally, here's where you start saying that murder victims are exercising their freedom of choice.

Like I said the god you worship does not love you. It's plain to see.

But you refuse to look and to think for yourself.

You say you would stop someone from murdering your wife but that act in itself is an act of you defying your god. Obviously your god knew your wife was going to be murdered and wanted your wife to be murdered because as you say murder isn't the worst thing that can happen to anyone.

And you can't see the contradiction you are living with.

 

[hadit]

Like I said the god you worship does not love you. It's plain to see.

It is to laugh. You sound like a 5-year-old on the playground, "Your Mom doesn't love you because she made you go home when the thunder storm started yesterday".

But you refuse to look and to think for yourself.

On the contrary, I have spent decades thinking about this.

You say you would stop someone from murdering your wife but that act in itself is an act of you defying your god.

There is disagreement among Christians on that point. Some maintain a pacifist stance, wherein they would do no violence, while others would actively shoot anyone even threatening their family. Interesting that you think they would be "defying" God by doing so, when Israel was not forbidden to protect their families and Jesus didn't directly address it. What else do you know better about God than anyone else, and how long have you studied all of this?

Obviously your god knew your wife was going to be murdered and wanted your wife to be murdered because as you say murder isn't the worst thing that can happen to anyone.

Obviously, you're flailing, looking for something to stand on, because you're getting further and further afield. There are many people who long for death to escape the misery they are in.

And you can't see the contradiction you are living with.

It's called balance, something I'm not sure, based on your posts, that you're very familiar with. The bottom line remains that God allows man to do evil, but justice will be done.

 

[Blues Man]

It is to laugh. You sound like a 5-year-old on the playground, "Your Mom doesn't love you because she made you go home when the thunder storm started yesterday".

On the contrary, I have spent decades thinking about this.

There is disagreement among Christians on that point. Some maintain a pacifist stance, wherein they would do no violence, while others would actively shoot anyone even threatening their family. Interesting that you think they would be "defying" God by doing so, when Israel was not forbidden to protect their families and Jesus didn't directly address it. What else do you know better about God than anyone else, and how long have you studied all of this?

Obviously, you're flailing, looking for something to stand on, because you're getting further and further afield. There are many people who long for death to escape the misery they are in.

It's called balance, something I'm not sure, based on your posts, that you're very familiar with. The bottom line remains that God allows man to do evil, but justice will be done.

Contradiction is not balance.

 

[LibertyKid]

It sounds like he might be interesting, or even worth a look, but this thread is specifcally about Christianity, the major religion here in the US that has become so hateful and overbearing in recent years. despite, or possibly because of all the contradictions. Your description of this Greg guy doesn't sound anything like main stream Christianity.

Your initial post is all about predestination, reformed theology (TULIP) which was espoused by John Calvin in the 1600's (Why did it take so long to come up with this after the bible was formed who knows). Greg does not adhere to reformed theology, or some other "Mainstream" beliefs. His take on the actual reality of Hell and a possible purgatory, is really interesting and uses Scripture to back up his thoughts.

 

[LibertyKid]

That's just absurd. If god is so loving, why wouldn't he prevent the murder of his top followers? Supposedly, god knows the cream of the crop. Those who will stay faithful forever without fail. How do you resolve the issue of being murdered, if you have no reason to believe you will be murdered?

In a nutshell, the theology is that this current physical reality is corrupt, sinful. The future state (a time TBD), is where all things will be made new. That is the hope that Christianity offers. The Christians of the first few centuries went though many horrific "tribulations". Life wasn't perfect for them, they knew and understood that. Yet, they persevered. They are the cloud of witnesses who have gone before us.

At the end of the day, either Jesus was a liar, lunatic, or he "Lord" to the Jews. You either believe what he says or you don't. It's really pretty simple. Christ never said that earth would be perfected for our earthly reality. So to answer the why evil exists question, technically can't, because humans can't possibly understand, fully, the entirety the mind of a god. All we know is that there is a hope of perfected eternity, where a just god, brings justice to all.

 

[Dadoalex]

Interesting. 3-months Buddhist or 30-years Buddhist?



Hmm ... I use normally the greek expression meta-physics instead of the Latin expression super-natural. Reason: In a Christian library the books beyong physics are just simple meta-physics. Many things are meta-physics (or super-natural). For example the use of language is super-natural or meta-physics. This words are not as absurde as many atheists like to think.



?



?

I hope you don't use alcohol or other "smart" drugs. Drugs and Buddhism is an exhausting combination.

Just look at how stupid the inline quotes make you look.
HINT: It's not the inline quotes, you're just stupid.

And about 20 years. In Buddhism I am but a child.

 

[Dadoalex]

Okay ... what about not to read what I said to you? Perhaps this makes you happy.

"When did someone come to you on a Friday and took a look into your cooking pot whether you live vegan or not vegan? And what says Jesus about such rules? When did a Christian say to you you do not have to use the word "negroe" because this makes you to a racist or you have to accept that it are existing male people, female people and people with another sex - without being able to tell anyone which sex this could be."

This is unintelligible garbage.
Have you considered a translator?
Or maybe putting down the crack pipe before posting?

 

[BULLDOG]

In a nutshell, the theology is that this current physical reality is corrupt, sinful. The future state (a time TBD), is where all things will be made new. That is the hope that Christianity offers. The Christians of the first few centuries went though many horrific "tribulations". Life wasn't perfect for them, they knew and understood that. Yet, they persevered. They are the cloud of witnesses who have gone before us.

At the end of the day, either Jesus was a liar, lunatic, or he "Lord" to the Jews. You either believe what he says or you don't. It's really pretty simple. Christ never said that earth would be perfected for our earthly reality. So to answer the why evil exists question, technically can't, because humans can't possibly understand, fully, the entirety the mind of a god. All we know is that there is a hope of perfected eternity, where a just god, brings justice to all.

Exactly. If you find comfort in religion, then by all means, you should adhere to it. As I said before, I wish I could have that much trust in a god whose actions described in the bible can only be seen by a rational person as petty and hateful. Obviouly it helps to cherry pick only the soothing parts, but I just don't see that as a rational choice. Enjoy your religion, but don't try to judge my life by your beliefs, like todays christians are so determined to do.

 

[hadit]

Contradiction is not balance.

It's not a contradiction to say that God is perfect in all His ways while I am not.

 

[hadit]

Exactly. If you find comfort in religion, then by all means, you should adhere to it. As I said before, I wish I could have that much trust in a god whose actions described in the bible can only be seen by a rational person as petty and hateful. Obviouly it helps to cherry pick only the soothing parts, but I just don't see that as a rational choice. Enjoy your religion, but don't try to judge my life by your beliefs, like todays christians are so determined to do.

Your standing to judge God as unjust and unmerciful has no more credibility than a toddler mad because Daddy leaves the house every morning and isn't there to play with him until the evening.

 

[BULLDOG]

It's not a contradiction to say that God is perfect in all His ways while I am not.

reading how god is a loving and forgiving god and then how he ordered the deaths of all men, and the rape and pillage of all women and children is contradictory to god being perfect in all his ways.

 

[Blues Man]

It's not a contradiction to say that God is perfect in all His ways while I am not.

Of course it is.

You just assume your god is perfect. You really have no way of knowing.

 

[Blues Man]

reading how god is a loving and forgiving god and then how he ordered the deaths of all men, and the rape and pillage of all women and children is contradictory to god being perfect in all his ways.

The god of the bible is perfectly capricious, vengeful and cruel it seems.

 

[hadit]

reading how god is a loving and forgiving god and then how he ordered the deaths of all men, and the rape and pillage of all women and children is contradictory to god being perfect in all his ways.

Did you bother to find out what those people had been doing for generations before God finally had enough and wiped them out, or did you just look at judgement and think it's too harsh?

 

[hadit]

Of course it is.

You just assume your god is perfect. You really have no way of knowing.

There's no contradiction in saying I am not perfect while He is.

 

[Blues Man]

Did you bother to find out what those people had been doing for generations before God finally had enough and wiped them out, or did you just look at judgement and think it's too harsh?

But you excuse your god when it doesn't care to wipe out people who would kill innocents but you think it's OK for your god to wipe out people who pissed him off.

Contradiction.

 

[Blues Man]

There's no contradiction in saying I am not perfect while He is.

Just because you believe that doesn't mean it's true.